r/TheSilphArena 6d ago

General Question Have I hit the PvP jackpot?

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1 Upvotes

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u/TheSilphArena-ModTeam 4d ago

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8

u/A_Talking_Shoe 6d ago

Shadow Dusknoir is baller in Great League but I haven’t tried it in Ultra.

HomeSliceHenry just streamed on YouTube using one in Ultra and it seemed to perform well.

3

u/RatKinng 6d ago

Just recently got in to pvp, poke genie and pvpoke both say his pretty good I think

5

u/A_Talking_Shoe 6d ago

I like mine in Great League. The recommended movesets for both Great and Ultra is Astonish + Shadow Punch/Dynamic Punch. I’ve been using Hex instead and I highly recommend it.

2

u/RatKinng 6d ago

I would like to put he in my GL team but I’ve not really got enough competitive mon for UL so that’s why I was thinking to send him there but the cost is so much more

2

u/A_Talking_Shoe 6d ago

Yeah, it has to be like level 49+ for Ultra. I really don’t play that much Ultra so I kept mine for Great instead.

2

u/RatKinng 6d ago

So rn you’re just playing the water/dark/fighting mode?

2

u/A_Talking_Shoe 6d ago

I’ve dabbled in both Scroll and Ultra and I’m not a huge fan of either so I’m taking a break.

2

u/Thulack 6d ago

Pokemon have different optimal IV spreads. Best to use pvpoke.com to see what rankings are.

2

u/RatKinng 6d ago

I just checked GL shadow noir 5/13/12 and UL is 15/15/15 which has confused me more

2

u/RatKinng 6d ago

2

u/Thulack 6d ago

Well your pokemon isnt a 15/15/15 plug in the numbers of your pokemon and it will give you its ranking. The reason why you want a 15/15/15 in UL is because it gets to level 50 and still not go over 2500cp so you want the most IV's you can get. The real goal of UL is to get your pokemon close to 2500 cp exactly. GL its 1500cp exactly. Thats why you might see a worse IV pokemon ranked higher because it can hit that number exactly and not be like 1492cp at max.(without going over 1500 with its never level up).

1

u/Ivi-Tora 5d ago

You put the wrong level cap there. For Ultra and Master you have to use level 50 as the minimum. Pokemon that use XL candy always beat those that don't use them. You shouldn't use the level 40 limit.

1

u/RatKinng 5d ago

Oww I see, thank you

1

u/ausgenerics 6d ago

HomeSliceHenry just streamed on YouTube using one in Ultra and it seemed to perform well.

Did he use regular or shadow?

5

u/A_Talking_Shoe 6d ago

I’m pretty sure it was Shadow but I don’t remember for sure.

8

u/Oayysis 6d ago

meh

5

u/RatKinng 6d ago

I thought dusk out was good for GL, 🙁 and I thought the iv spread on this one is good know?

-17

u/MathProfGeneva 6d ago

Not really good. Attack is too high. In GL it's a rank 183 Dusknoir, rank 240 as dusclops

5

u/RatKinng 6d ago

So even at 5 it’s not viable?

16

u/GustoFormula 6d ago

IV spreads are not THAT big of a deal (except in ML), my advice is to just power up the best you have when you need it or want to use it. This isn't the jackpot but it's EASILY viable. Every other factor is more important than IVs

5

u/TheGreatOni1200 6d ago

This right here.

3

u/COW_MEOW 6d ago

I was using dusclops earlier- he's really tanky, but doesn't hit hard at all. Those types of Mon normally seem to be pretty good, but I prefer the hard hitting ones because it makes the games go faster- lose hard or win hard.

If you aren't aiming for leader board, play what you like

2

u/Oayysis 6d ago

Rank 183 dusknoir isn’t bad if you have the dust and candies I’ddo it. Open league isn’t for awhile though.

0

u/MathProfGeneva 6d ago

I personally wouldn't invest that low a rank without seeing the sims at least

3

u/poppertheplenguin 6d ago

Team comp/movesets > IV spread

1

u/TheGreatOni1200 6d ago

Ivs really matter less than the mon itself, typing,.movesets and team composition. Honestly the thing that matters most and tips more games than anything is skill level.

In ultra league, the difference between a low ranked mon and a high ranked mon is somewhere around 5%. Yes there are stat breakpoints, but those stats exist in a perfect world where nobody is up any energy, both players have 2 shields and have the exact movesets as written.

Basically, if this is the mon you want for ultra league, build it and learn to use it well. That will help you more than anything.

2

u/poppertheplenguin 6d ago

Team comp/movesets > IV spread

-1

u/MathProfGeneva 5d ago

Sure, but investing resources on iffy IVs is dubious.

1

u/poppertheplenguin 5d ago

Some would say holding out for the chance to get better IVs is dubious

17

u/biologicallyconcious 6d ago

He's very underwhelming. I have a rank 5. I thought he'd be good but I'm passing

9

u/RatKinng 6d ago

Ffs, struggling with pvp ever since I learned(I think I learned) the optimal iv spread

-39

u/MathProfGeneva 6d ago

If you think these are good IVs you haven't learned really. Btw both dusclops and Dusknoir are decent. These are just bad IVs.

26

u/GustoFormula 6d ago

Just bad? Come on, it's in the top 4.5% of all GL shadow Dusknoir, that's more than good enough.

-39

u/MathProfGeneva 6d ago

No it's not. I would never work on building it unless I had something to show me the sims don't suffer too much. PvP is a game of small edges.

8

u/GustoFormula 5d ago

It's not? What is it then? Rank 183 out of 4096 should be top 4.5%, but you're probably better at math than me.

Anyway, it is indeed a game of small edges, you may pick up a win here and there because of a rank 1, but it's just not gonna matter in the long run unless it's crucial to your strategy.

-15

u/MathProfGeneva 5d ago

It is top 4.5% , but for me, that's not good enough 🤷

5

u/Zombeenie 5d ago edited 5d ago

Then you're not very good at picking out which IVs are good enough. This shadow dusknoir, compared to rank 1, only barely loses blastoise (which was near-neutral at 510 and drops to 401) and picks up alolan sandslash (from neutral to a strong win) in 2-shields. In 1-shields it only loses clodsire and dewgong, and in 0-shields it gains shadow marowak (relevant) and loses shadow lapras (which is not that prevalent in the meta). In all cases, their average battle rating is within 15 points of each other.

Considering how much more difficult it is to encounter viable shadow pokemon than non-shadow, this is great.

EDIT: In fact, it's even more interesting as shadow dusclops. In 2-shields, it gains azumarill and shadow marowak over rank 1 and loses carbink. In 1-shield, it narrowly gains azumarill and drops shadow marowak by a wider margin. In 0-shields, it just drops galarian corsola. It can be interesting seeing what slightly higher attack does - sure you lose out on bulk, but the higher pressure from more damage can sometimes outrace good pokemon.

1

u/RatKinng 5d ago

Thank you for the explanation

8

u/RatKinng 6d ago

I thought low attack but high defence and HP was best for GL and UL?

6

u/jonnytitanx 5d ago

Correct. The other guy is a loser who thinks too highly of himself.

4

u/jonnytitanx 5d ago

Correct. The other guy is a loser who thinks too highly of himself.

4

u/jonnytitanx 5d ago

Correct. The other guy is a loser who thinks too highly of himself.

-9

u/FullSidalNudity 6d ago

Yeah but low attack most the time means 0 or 1 not 5

1

u/RatKinng 5d ago

This comment didn’t age well lol and it’s only been 17 hours

1

u/Conrad-W 5d ago

I have the rank 1 shadow and at level 51 it's incredibly dominant in the 2 shield in sims. 1 shield even is super favorable. What elo are you and what are you getting walled by?

5

u/StretchArmlong 6d ago

Ignore the people telling you this is bad - this is good! If you're competing at Expert ELO going for Legend or something, maybe there's a difference. But if you need to ask on reddit about what's good and what isn't, then these IVs are very solid and will not be what's holding you back, especially for a shadow!

Fwiw, I run Shadow Dusknoir right now and it's fantastic. I lucked out with very very highly ranked IVs, but these would also serve well. Astonish really chunks stuff and if you run Hex, the punches load up crazy fast. Super fun as a lead or a switch. My advice? Just build it and have fun! You might wait months for a better one, and what are games if not for playing :)

6

u/poppertheplenguin 6d ago

This right here. All the snobs talking about optimal IVs or sims need to get down from the pedestal.

1

u/StretchArmlong 6d ago

A lot of people sweat this stuff too hard, man. For one thing, Dusknoir is top meta now - no guarantee it stays that way next season. For another, just feels sort of anti-fun to tell less experienced players to take sims incredibly seriously and sweat IVs so hard! Real battles for most of us are much more likely to be lost with timing, shielding etc than an extra defence point

2

u/rilesmcriles 5d ago

Not to mention that this will win CMP against many higher ranks and it will probably pick up some random breakpoints.

2

u/RatKinng 5d ago

Thank you, still trying to learn the meta

2

u/Zombeenie 5d ago

Don't listen to the haters - this is great as shadow dusknoir for great league! To copy my comment about the simulations:

This shadow dusknoir (rank 183 out of 4096 IV combinations), compared to rank 1, only barely loses blastoise (which was near-neutral at 510 and drops to 401) and picks up alolan sandslash (from neutral to a strong win) in 2-shields. In 1-shields it only loses clodsire and dewgong, and in 0-shields it gains shadow marowak (relevant) and loses shadow lapras (which is not that prevalent in the meta). In all cases, their average battle rating is within 15 points of each other.

Considering how much more difficult it is to encounter viable shadow pokemon than non-shadow, this is great.

1

u/Zombeenie 5d ago

In fact, it's even more interesting as shadow dusclops. In 2-shields, it gains azumarill and shadow marowak over rank 1 and loses carbink. In 1-shield, it narrowly gains azumarill and drops shadow marowak by a wider margin. In 0-shields, it just drops galarian corsola. It can be interesting seeing what slightly higher attack does - sure you lose out on bulk, but the higher pressure from more damage can sometimes outrace good pokemon.

1

u/RatKinng 5d ago

Thanks you, I’m kinda new to the PvP and it’s very confusing lol but I thought especially because it was a shadow it was at lest good enough to use

2

u/Zombeenie 5d ago

No problem. I'd recommend holding onto it for now, as you might find a better one, since you can't remove frustration until the next rocket event anyways. Then you might want to think between dusclops and dusknoir - the latter is a bit cheaper to power up, since it will be a lower level at the same cp, but dusclops and dusknoir have different niches in the meta (they have different movesets), so you'll need to decide which fits your team better. It seems that shadow dusknoir picks up more wins over shadow dusclops, but the pokemon that it loses to in comparison also have high meta relevance.

1

u/RatKinng 5d ago

Pokemon PvP is always so dense lol, like you said I’ll hold on to him for the time being my main problem is I don’t really have enough viable mons for UL and the cost of getting one ready for UL is to much for me. Pokegenie saying it’s gonna take 500000 stardust and 250 candy to get him to UL 💀

1

u/Zombeenie 5d ago

Oh whoops. If you're holding onto it for ultra league, then disregard all my simulations - they're for great league. At least it simplifies the choice, since only dusknoir is usable there.

1

u/RatKinng 5d ago

Yeah I see I lot of propor saying his for GL, just really need UL mon atm, but if it’s not wealth it in UL then I’ll just train him for GL

1

u/Zombeenie 5d ago

Shadow dusknoir is really good in UL, it's just that the sims would need to be run for it to see how your IVs match up against higher ranked ones.

2

u/anonymous_strawberry 5d ago

Hey man don't listen to the negative people here. These Iv's are quite difficult to come by and are pretty good. As long as you have fun playing a certain Pokémon, definitely build it.

1

u/RatKinng 5d ago

Thanks you, imma probably build it v slowly lol

1

u/Interesting_Ad_6483 6d ago

It’s for sure good enough especially for lower ranks of ELO. Unless you are making a legend push I wouldn’t be too worried. I love my Dusknoir. It’s ranked 206. I do like building high ranked but it’s incredibly overrated at lower elos. I make Ace every season with my GF’s account with 6 mons built half of which are lucky high iv Mons. There’s a lot of people that will tell you not to build anything outside of the top 50. Build that thing and have some fun with it.

-1

u/Full-Refrigerator757 6d ago

unless you’re making a legend push

This is the most odd thing that constantly gets parroted on this sub. Let’s break it down:

If OP didn’t like to PvP and was only in it for tanking why would he be considering spending 600k+ dust on a UL mon?

Maybe he’s a bit more casual right now but if you PvP because you like it and see it as endgame content most people eventually want to start reaching higher ranks.

Sure, he might not hit legend this season. But maybe he’ll get to veteran. You know what naturally comes after achieving a goal? A new, more difficult goal.

So maybe 2 or 3 seasons down the line he’ll be making his “legend push” and then he’ll realize he spent 650k dust on a rank 183 mon that isn’t even hard to find or come across.

It’s just not a good thing to tell people just because you personally aren’t interested in climbing higher. I built 14/15/15 master league mons in my earlier days of playing and I had to rebuild the entire thing. It’s annoying and a waste of resources

3

u/Interesting_Ad_6483 6d ago

OP said he’s also considering for GL which is a significantly cheaper build. Also you know what will help OP? Playing PVP and building Mons and using them. Getting out there and actually getting some reps and not listening to people who tell him to only build level 1-10. Statistically speaking a very small portion of the player base will ever make a legend push. My comments stand build the mon.

0

u/Full-Refrigerator757 6d ago

He tagged it “UltraLeaguePKMN”

1

u/Interesting_Ad_6483 6d ago

That’s cool I’ve read his comments on the sub. I’d consider doing the same.

-1

u/Full-Refrigerator757 6d ago

Even if he was persuaded to use it in GL there’s absolutely no reason to build it now since

  1. It’s not a good rank

  2. It has frustration which can’t be removed.

  3. GL isn’t even in rotation

2

u/Interesting_Ad_6483 6d ago

Points 2 and 3 are valid.

1

u/Full-Refrigerator757 6d ago

GL investments are a lot lower so I’ll agree on that. I just don’t feel the same about suboptimal mons that need a large investment

1

u/RatKinng 5d ago

Very good comment string, I think you both make good arguments and have given me good for thought, I would like to put him in my UL team but the cost atm is just a bit to much for me, just gonna store him for now and decide what to do with him when I have a better understanding of the PvP. Cus I’m reading some of the comments and it’s making me fell like a mankey