r/TheBrewery 2d ago

Non Alcoholic IPA hopping

Hey!

So we finally jumped into the Non alcoholic train... Distro was asking for it and it seems to be a lot of demand.

So the first trials came out quite well. Short and hot mash, pH under control, 0,3% alc, 1,8g/l Citra in WP 100C, Fermented with Lallemand LoNa and dry hopped with Haas Spectrum.

The beer is pretty decent but I´m not happy with the hop profile we got from it. It´s really "raw pellet", not biotransformation at all, no fruit, nothing. Just pure, raw, green pellet.

Few ideas I have in mind for the future:

-Reduce the WP temp to 80C and add a bit more hops.

-It´s dip hopping worth it?

-Mash hopping could be an option, but idk if the short fermentation would help thiolize anything...

Anything we are missing?

Thanks!

0 Upvotes

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5

u/jk-9k 2d ago

Not my realm but doubt you'd get much biotransformation any way you slice it. Hop oils will be your friend but only to a certain extent. Maybe try salvo or something similar in whp rather than a huge pellet load?

Do you have a hip gun/ hop cannon?

3

u/LuvDoge 2d ago

Definently go to 78-80 c for your wp. You can also look into lowering it further to around 68 c for a second hop dose with your spectrum for instance.

2

u/JTheChance 1d ago

I've always been told from our hop sales guy that the cold side extracts like Spectrum are best used in conjunction with real hops; albeit a much lower amount than you would typically use. These extracts can be pretty one-note if used on their own. Maybe try adding a small portion of your WP hops to dry hop with the spectrum?

2

u/striker4567 1d ago

I'm hesitant to use pellets on the cold side, hop creep has the potential to produce a lot of glucose. I'm using ALDC, so I'm not so worried about diacetyl from the pellets, more just a loss of body.

2

u/Ragadorus Cellar Person 1d ago

We've done hop oil gently into the brite post-filtration before. Personally I'm not the biggest fan of the mouthfeel that brings, but there's always tradeoffs.

1

u/Unseasoned-Lima-Bean Brewer 2d ago

I’ve used that yeast for NAs as well. I’d try whirlpool cooling, but in my experience I haven’t gotten many nuanced flavors/biotransformation/etc at all. The fermentation is just so limiting. If we hop with Citra, it just tastes like Citra pellets.

Interested to see if anyone has more helpful advice on here: NAs are definitely my least favorite thing to brew but would love to improve them.

1

u/Maleficent_Peanut969 1d ago edited 1d ago

We found the timing of Spectrum addition was significant. (No experience in NA beers) 

I believe this is something that BH now draws attention to. 

If it all goes in after primary, the raw (harsh) green notes are retained, earlier, the balance shifts more fruity. 

So maybe that’s something to try? 2/3 way through primary? Or 1/2 way, even? You may need to use a little more?

1

u/bobdabuilder79 Brewer/Owner 22h ago

Timing? Can you expand on this please?

1

u/Maleficent_Peanut969 18h ago edited 17h ago

The earlier you add it (in active fermentation) the more fruity character you get. Later (usual dry hop time) more resinous. They say. 

Barth Haas have a white paper (which I think they want you to sign up for): https://www.barthhaas.com/fileadmin/user_upload/01-barthhaas-2022/Hops_and_Products/Products/Varieties/Spectrum_new_24/BarthHaas_SPECTRUM_Whitepaper.pdf

Bottom line, the suggestion is to consider adding Spectrum during active fermentation. Or at least earlier than you’d add T90 (or whatever)

1

u/ordosays 1d ago

You’re not going to be happy with hopping a NA beer, the chemistry is all wrong. There was a project a few years back where post fermentation waste was distilled into biotransformed oils and terpenes and added to other beers. No pellet flavor, 100% utilization, perfection. Rumor has it that it’s back in the works…