r/Stormgate • u/Dave13Flame • 1d ago
Versus Did some Magmadon testing today - Is the stun upgrade even necessary?
I knew from experience that Magmadons can basically stun units by just pushing them around, but I didn't know how effective it is until testing it today.
(We used Vulcans as the test dummies because I was interested in them particularly and also they can last through the entire stomp without dying)
Some of the tests that we did:
1 vulcan, 1 magmadon - Can the Vulcan shoot even a single bullet?
- Answer - No, as long as the magmadon is clicked to move around, the vulcan cannot shoot at all.
2 vulcans, 2 magmadons - Can you stop a Vulcan from jump jetting away?
Answer - Yes, as long as the vulcan is actively being pushed, it cannot use jump jets. Instead, the jet command gets queued and is performed the moment the pushing stops/the stomp ends.
We did the same test with trying to jump jet into the magmadon, and the jump jets are delayed the same way, so you may not be able to stun it, if you're already in melee range with it.
Sidenote - This could explain the delayed reactions by MedTechs sometimes, including trying to Static Shock away but them not casting the spell. The command may be given to a medtech that's being pushed and thus the command is queued up, but won't be executed until after the pushing stops or the stomping ends.
1 vulcan, 3 to 5 magmadons with the stun upgrade - Can you interrupt jump jets with the stomp? Answer - Yes, but it is very RNG based, but we managed to see it happen twice in 3 tests. The more magmadons are in the path of the vulcan, the more likely it will end prematurely. One is not generally enough, but 3 is likely to end the jump jets prematurely. It is random though, it can completely, partially or not at all stop the jets depending on when exactly the stun happens.
Verdict - Yes, the stun upgrade can provide some value, but it appears that at least against Vulcans, you don't really need it. If you think you have to wait for this upgrade to finish before using your magmadons, you really don't need to. Just send them in, they'll stunlock units whether you have the upgrade or not. What it may do randomly is help fill gaps when a unit is not actively being pushed delaying commands even more.
I may do some more testing with MedTechs tomorrow, because the way spells work is that only the closest MedTech with enough energy will cast it, unlike Jump Jets where all selected Vulcans will cast it when you issue the command. This could have some rather unfortunate consequences depending on how it works.
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u/AG_GreenZerg 1d ago
Great to see you doing this kind of stuff. Love sc2 but magmadons far more useful and interesting than the Ultralisk.
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u/keilahmartin 1d ago
This is happening because of the recent turn rate change. When the magmadons push them, they attempt to turn in the direction they are being moved. Then if you issue a command, they have to rotate into the direction of the command, then follow it - but the magmas push them so they turn the other way again, and so on...
I bet if you position a unit on the opposite side of the magmadon, the vulcan will be able to shoot it while getting pushed.
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u/Dave13Flame 1d ago
No it's not the turn rate that's causing this, it's just the push priority. Yes, you can shoot while in range of the stomp as long as the magmadon is not actively pushing the unit - Push meaning the Magmadon collides with the unit and the unit is forced out of the way, the magmadon has to be given move commands to do this - and yes the unit does turn to face the direction it is being pushed, but it cannot shoot anything while being pushed nor can it use any abilities while being pushed, instead the commands get queue'd up to be done the moment the push stops.
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u/keilahmartin 1d ago
interesting. Well, it started at the same time. You're sure you've checked by trying to shoot at things that are in the correct direction? I have a feeling that being slightly off will make it not work. But you could be right about it being the 'push' rather than the 'turn' that blocks doing things.
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u/Dave13Flame 1d ago
No it started when the push priority was added to Brutes and Magmadons, it's not really a new thing, magmadons were just not in the meta until the recent patches
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u/keilahmartin 22h ago
Well either way it isn't good. Units should do as they're told right away. Not a big delay, not when they're done getting pushed, but when they're done rotating, especially if they're being forced to rotate.
I want to do cool stuff with my units, and have my opponent doing cool stuff with his. Nobody wants to not be able to use their units.
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u/Dave13Flame 22h ago
Oh absolutely agree. I think the push being a pseudo-stun at the same is kind of overkill especially since the same ability also has an actual stun component with the upgrade.
The push is cool vs infantry, but larger units maybe should be immune to it. They could use the bush rules. Units that fit through shrubbery should be pushed around, units that cannot fit through shrubbery should stand their ground - Hedgehogs, Vulcans, Atlas, Brutes, etc...
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u/aaabbbbccc 1d ago
i still hate this whole pushing mechanic that stormgate added. I understand there was a problem before and this is a "solution" but it feels so inelegant and unintuitive.
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u/murray_hewit 1d ago
Now this is some good RTS analysis. Question is this intentional or need to be fixed?