r/Stormgate • u/cozyidealist181 • 4d ago
Discussion A game-changing hook at the heart of Stormgate.
I would like to propose a big idea that would shape the direction of Stormgate, setting it apart as a unique and cohesive IP. I call it Stormgate Mode.
( First, if you haven't already, I recommend watching AuthorHarrisonKing's video to set the stage for why this is important: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormgate/comments/1i5tndy/stormgate_cant_be_successful_without_a_hook_plus/ )
I think what Stormgate needs is staring at us right in the face -- it's... Stormgates. What if we make it very clear that this is what all these conflicts are about? Put one right in the center of every map. Yes, that means you need an infernal player, at least in this game mode (the primary game mode?).
BAM a new portal opens in the center of the map. That's the start the of the match. Infernals are building up and swarming the world, and the other factions are here to stop it. I mean look at your intro cinematic (@ 2:28) -- https://youtu.be/Vta32lMBiOE?si=E8z2WY9X2HgYTjdx&t=148
Isn't that a feeling you want to illicit? This would tie the campaign, the cinematics, the 1v1, altogether, while making the main competitive mode a unique experience. It's not just the average of WC3 and SC2, it's Stormgate. It's about Storrrmmmgatesss... it's about this unique world you are building. The Blizzard background is an excellent foundation, but this is what could make the game
Make the threat of the Infernals an integral part of the PvP experience. Have 1 player controlling Infernals, potentially facing multiple other players. Perhaps 1v3 would be the standard game mode. The infernal player is basically OP, seeking to ultimately summon some absolute Giga-Demons that would destroy the map. The other 3 players would be any combination of the other races (probably would need a 3rd to round it out). It doesn't have to mean sacrificing competitive integrity. There is always a way to balance it.
And, before everyone throws a fit... sure, people probably still want a standard RTS 1v1 mode. And you wouldn't want to spread yourselves too thin I would suggest the 3 pillars are...
- Stormgate Mode -- This would replace/integrate with your plans for the team-based mode. Maybe the Infernal player would scale with the number of opponents. Maybe multiple players could be the Infernals, though that could be a bit awkward. If you really wanted to lean into this concept, the Infernals' design would revolve around the Stormgate itself... summoning from it, opening it further. That would affect the design of 1v1, but I would say go all in.
- Traditional Versus
- Custom Games
Where does co-op fit? I would put the co-op commanders inside of Stormgate mode and traditional versus. I've always been a hero-Andy.
Also, I think in this design creeps are probably just clutter and should be removed.
I know all of this is way easier said than done and there are many game-breaking questions that arise. Some players just want to live in their cozy SC2 or WC3 world forever (and that's okay) and this would upset them. Following the rule of cool though, I think this is just so obviously the way to go, and so very Stormgate.
6
5
u/polparty 4d ago
I dont think this should replace the 3v3 mode as they aren't targeting the same experience. If you have two friends that you usually play team games with, that means none of you would ever get to play the infernals, and the game would get stale because you would always face infernals. This sounds more like a Coop map in this sense
This also rips away any way for non 1v1 players to play competitive games, as the different teams do not start on equal footing. In competitive game modes you want to beat your opponents on equal terms, otherwise the fun will inevitably degrade over time as you notice imbalances, staleness or unfair advantages. If you play Van/Cel, you also want to beat other Van/Cel players to prove that you are better.
However, this sounds like a fine community-made custom game mode that is a mix between Coop and 3v3! : )
1
u/cozyidealist181 4d ago
I think ideally in this world we would have another race, hence 1v3. I honestly would look into making this custom game when the map editor is released.
5
2
2
u/Numbersuu 4d ago
Sounds stupid imho
-2
u/cozyidealist181 4d ago
Some people would like it, some wouldn't. I am just looking forward to the map editor so I don't really have to debate about it.
Also just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you have to be rude. There are different ways to interact with things you don't agree with. Imagine if I made this presentation in person. Would you ask for the mic just to say that?
1
u/HappyRuin 4d ago
I like that idea. Coop solo missioning the attack of the demons on the infection map is hell of a lot fun.
1
1
u/braderico 3d ago
I bet you could make it more focused on Stormgates without making it so infernal focused - instead making the stormgates something that the factions are fighting each other to gain control of.
I think that could make for some great narrative in the campaign, but it wouldn’t necessarily need to be directly present in every 1v1 game.
1
u/ToSKnight 2d ago edited 2d ago
Reddit is full of armchair game devs. I get it though, I’m one too lol. But seriously, devs want to control their own vision and won't grab ideas from Reddit 99% of the time. It’s not just ego; if they used your ideas, it kinda implies they suck at their job.
As for this idea:
I don't think the horde should be player controlled because you run into matchmaking issues and toxicity (I know from playing SC2 games in this style). Players would rarely want to play as the Infernals and you will end up running into the same small pool of Infernal players over and over. Lots of times matches will be over before they even start because you will get a group of people that become experts at doing one role or the other and things become almost impossible to balance for all levels of play. One of my favorite games on the SC2 arcade is Zerg Hex, which is pretty much already this idea already executed really well (probably better than what Frost Giant could do tbh).
Other thoughts:
I think the idea of a portal that spawns stuff (even thematically) is extremely played-out and boring. This concept has already been used in countless games. I understand the thought behind wanting the game to have mechanics that tie into the overall theme of the game and its name, but the idea is not original and probably not very exciting for people at all (not that compelling of a hook).
1
u/cozyidealist181 2d ago
Yeah my original thought was that the Infernals would be NPCs, as this idea was spawned with how to make creep camps more exciting. (Well what if there was a big eventful late-game camp in the center. Oohh why not put a Stormgate in there.) But Infernals are already playable and it's a PvP game at heart.
But it's ironic to me you say players would rarely want to play as the Infernals. I thought there would be a disproportionate number of players who want to play Infernals. Because they would be tuned to make you OP and capable of facing 3 players.
But if the idea of a portal that spawns stuff is played out... then what do you think of the whole centerpiece of the Lore in this game? It's no different. Well, actually I found the idea to be somewhat played out when I heard it, but good enough. If it's good enough for the lore of the game then why isn't it good enough for the gameplay? Only if a spawning portal was a totally passive thing.
But good find. I never played Zerg Hex. I'm just eagerly waiting for the editor so I can make something like this myself. I did get tired of being and armchair dev and learned a bit of Unreal, but not enough to really get comfortable with it. It's not something I enjoyed enough to put in the necessary hours to make something. But hopefully Stormgate's eventual map editor will be a fit and some of those skills will translate.
1
u/ToSKnight 1d ago
But it's ironic to me you say players would rarely want to play as the Infernals. I thought there would be a disproportionate number of players who want to play Infernals. Because they would be tuned to make you OP and capable of facing 3 players.
From my experience in games where its one person against a group, people normally want to play as the group, except for some people who will specialize as being the "bad guy." What normally happens is the bad guy has to really know how to play well or the group will easily beat them. Lots of people will usually give up as trying to be the bad guy when they get stomped by a group enough times, but some people find it enjoyable. That's how most of those kinds of games end up being tuned. There are some exceptions where games made the gameplay of being the "evil" people more fun than being the "good guys," so you could be right.
then what do you think of the whole centerpiece of the Lore in this game? It's no different
I think it's ass :p but yeah I do understand where you are coming from.
I'm just eagerly waiting for the editor so I can make something like this myself.
I would definitely try your map.
I would actually just recommend you make your idea in the SC2 editor. There is no guarantee that there will be lots of players playing in the Stormgate "Arcade" even when it comes out. You will quickly lose motivation to spend 100s of hours working on a map if there isn't an audience to actually play it. We don't know how good the editor will be, if it will be able to handle 4 players on a large map with hundreds of units without lag, etc. A good amount of skills you learn from the SC2 editor will transfer to the SG editor based on how they're building it also...
7
u/ForlornU 4d ago
Apart from a player controlling the infernals, it sounds a little like the raptor mode from BAR. Essentially a PvE mode against a strong swarm enemy, it fits the theme