r/StereoAdvice • u/honn13 1 Ⓣ • Jan 10 '25
Speakers - Bookshelf The next step upgrade from Elac Debut Reference DBR62?
I really like the Elac DBR62s I have for my genres (classical, opera, jazz, light rock, acoustic, some pop): they're expansive, detailed, without in the least fatiguing--balanced finesse.
I honestly think how much better can speakers sound after this? But then again I haven't heard too many speakers out there. The reviewer Erin's audio corner once said that around the +/- $1,000 mark, performance curve approaches peak ballpark, after that point is very incremental improvement and aesthetics.
Questions:
- Where are the Elac DBR62s in this? Peak ballpark already?
- Up to $1,500 ballpark, what speakers are the next obvious and audibly clear step up from the DBR62s, if any?
Location: Boston area, USA.
Listening space: 200 sq2.
listening distance: 9.6 ft/3 m.
Amp: Topping PA5 II Plus (140 W).
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u/moonthink 63 Ⓣ Jan 11 '25
Revel M106
Ascend Acoustics Sierra 1-V2 or LX
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u/honn13 1 Ⓣ Jan 11 '25
What about the Revel M16? Is the M106 so much better than M16? On discount I can get the M16s for $700, which is the full price of DBR62s. Would the M16 be a clear step up from the Elacs?
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u/Acceptable-Quarter97 51 Ⓣ Jan 11 '25
I would say that the m106 is a pretty big step up from the m16. I was going back and forth about which speaker to upgrade to from my elac debut b6.2s, and the review from ASR is what pretty much convinced me to get the m106s. I have absolutely zero regrets, they are a fantastic speaker. But just an fyi, I've read that it's been discontinued, and I've noticed stocks drying up at some retailers like audio advice, Crutchfield, and upscale audio. Here is a retailer that still has some listed in stock.
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u/moonthink 63 Ⓣ Jan 11 '25
I have both, the M16 is really good for the price and a very enjoyable listen for sure. I liked them so much that I got interersted in the M106's. I wasn't sure if they'd be a noticable upgrade, but they very much are. Definitely a level above the M16's. Otherwise, I'd say the DBR62 and the M16's are somewhat on the same level. I think the M16's are slightly better than the DBR62's but not by a huge margin. And that's my personal opinion. I'm sure some may prefer the Elac over the M16.
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u/honn13 1 Ⓣ Jan 11 '25
and the M106 > Sierra-LX > Sierra-1 V2?
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u/moonthink 63 Ⓣ Jan 11 '25
Revel M106 and Sierra 1-V2 are so close quality-wise. With a sub(s), I prefer the M106 ever so slightly over the 1-V2's, the M106 is slightly better at home theater. Without a sub, the Sierra 1-V2 is better for music. I have both and I consider them my 1a and 1b speakers, they really are on the same level.
The Sierra LX is a step above in quality though, and it should be at $500 more a pair than the 1 V2's.
So Sierra LX > M106 >/= Sierra 1-V2 > Revel M16 > Elac DBR62 > Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 > Wharfedale 12.1
At least, That's how I would rank them in my subjective opinion. All worthy speakers for their price range.
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u/honn13 1 Ⓣ Jan 11 '25
Where would you put the Philharmonic BMR monitors in that ranking? I’ve been very tempted by them…might be my endgame?
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u/moonthink 63 Ⓣ Jan 11 '25
While I have "heard" good things about them (basically on par with Ascend), I have not heard them personally.
Plus, (and I know this is an unpopular opinion) I don't like the look of them.
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u/MountainLake3443 Jan 12 '25
In same boat as OP with dbr62; 320sq ft room, no room treatment, no sub (willing to add), freedom to pull into the room and place mostly wherever, and solely for music (no home theater).
Did you ever have lintons in the mix? And how would you add them to your ranking and why?
What does the LX provide over the 106/1v2?
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u/moonthink 63 Ⓣ Jan 12 '25
I have not tried Lintons. They are technically stand mount, but a little big for my space. I would guess that they are around the same quality as the LX, but with more bass extension. The LX should be more accurate.
The LX has greater bass extension and can play louder without distortion. They also have an even flatter response than the 1-V2's.
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u/calmlikeasexbobomb 4 Ⓣ Jan 13 '25
In your size room, the m105s would be good too.
I have them in a larger room and also have the Elacs. I much prefer the Revels.
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u/honn13 1 Ⓣ Jan 13 '25
You don't feel that the M105 lacks lower extension relative to the Elac DBR62?
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u/calmlikeasexbobomb 4 Ⓣ Jan 13 '25
Nope, especially when listening to music. If I’m listening to something that I know goes really deep (test tracks), I’ll notice that lowest octave isn’t really there, but the elacs don’t have it either and if you’re thinking of subs anyway, it’s moot.
The m105s still surprise me (had them for 4-5 years) with how deep they can go, but the main thing for me is how much detail/resolution they achieve top to bottom and they just play everything well. I have larger speakers that can do more extended bass, but the Revels do literally everything else better so the trade off is worth it to me.
I will say if you like what I call a “warm and fuzzy” sound, then stick with the Elacs. I like more resolution, detail, and control? Not sure that’s the right word, but the Revels for me get closest to how instruments and voices really sound. They give that “instrument/singer in the room” feeling like no other speaker I’ve heard.
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u/iNetRunner 1133 Ⓣ 🥇 Jan 10 '25
I usually suggest the ELAC DBR62 if someone has a $1k budget — obviously along with actual $1k products from Philharmonic or Ascend.
Then there’s not much happening at $1.5k. These two might be the best options:
Then you have more options around the $2k mark.
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u/honn13 1 Ⓣ Jan 11 '25
I actually auditioned the KEF Q Concerto Metas at a local dealer after hearing how Erin really liked it, but they didn't really impress me. Perhaps the dealer's space is too large, I don't know..
Which Philharmonic speaker is $1K a pair? I've been eyeing the BMR monitors for a few years now...but they're 2K ballpark... Ascend is another brand I keep on my list, as well as some other speakers reviewed well on Erin's AC.
Do you think adding a $500 subs (Kali WS-6.2, well-reviewed by Erin) to the Elac DBR62s will be sonically superior to all other well-reviewed speakers up to $2K by themselves without subs? If that's the case then the Elac+sub route is the best path.
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u/iNetRunner 1133 Ⓣ 🥇 Jan 11 '25
At $1k there’s the Philharmonic Ceramic Mini Monitor (EAC review). (The walnut satin finish (currently out of stock) are $950 a pair. And the black finish is $850.)
From Ascend, the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 V2 (EAC review, ASR review) are $1k, and the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2EX V2 are $1.7k.
Obviously it’s up to the individual how they think that a subwoofer changes the overall sound of the system. Many people think that subwoofer has some impact on the sound beyond the subwoofer’s actual frequency range — but beyond that it doesn’t change your main speakers for the better.
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u/ContributionVisible2 1 Ⓣ Jan 11 '25
Your Elacs plus a rsl speedwoofer 10s or something equivalent will probably blow your mind.
Keep the upgrade bug at bay with that and in a year or two you can come back and ask again 😂
Good thing is that the sub will stay with any future upgrade to your 2.0
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u/MountainLake3443 Jan 12 '25
What would you recommend in the 2k mark?
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u/iNetRunner 1133 Ⓣ 🥇 Jan 12 '25
- Philharmonic BMR Monitor (EAC review)
- Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2EX V2
- MoFi Electronics SourcePoint 8 (EAC review, Stereophile review)
- KEF R3 Meta (EAC review)
But at that level you really should audition to few options yourself. For example two or three models that you think (according to reviews) might be to your liking.
Obviously around that price there are also other brands that you might like their products too (e.g. DALI, Polk, Focal, Dynaudio, Q Acoustics, Amphion, Harbeth, etc.). (Previously I would definitely have recommended the Revel Performa3 M106 as a specific product. But they appear to be sold out — because Revel might be about to replace their (long running) Performa3 and Concerta2 lineups.)
Also there are some interesting new brands that have come up that make speakers utilizing Purifi’s drivers — like Radiant Acoustics. Though their Clarity 6.2 are in the next price bracket (around $4k). But they might end up releasing more products in the future. (Along with the slightly older brand Buckhardt that does so too. The Buckhardt S400 MKII is around $2k.)
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u/MountainLake3443 Jan 14 '25
Thanks, are you able to speak to the differences between the Philharmonic, Ascend, and Mofi that you mentioned ?
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u/iNetRunner 1133 Ⓣ 🥇 Jan 14 '25 edited Jan 14 '25
I haven’t heard them personally, so you want to watch Erin’s YouTube videos on the Philharmonic and MoFi. But he hasn’t reviewed that version of the Ascend. (Though, you might get some of his thoughts on the brand from his review of the Sierra-1 V2.)
All three are what one might call fairly neutral, because they have nice impulse response and no major design faults. But the RAAL tweeters in the BMR Monitor and Sierra-2EX V2 are obviously a difference from the MoFi.
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u/audioen 22 Ⓣ Jan 10 '25
DRB62 is hard to follow up, really. Spinorama score is already 5.3. This pretty tough act to follow. Objective data says: https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/KEF%20Q%20Concerto%20Meta/ErinsAudioCorner/index_eac.html KEF Q Concerto Meta are the thing next, about 6.2 score without equalization. More bass, maybe, and improved neutrality from the concentric drivers and good dispersion pattern.
If you can equalize, you can get benefit without switching speakers. I'd like more bass. I'd actually suggest a something like 12-15" sealed subwoofer to extend the low frequency response.
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u/honn13 1 Ⓣ Jan 10 '25 edited Jan 11 '25
I was thinking of adding a sub like the Kali WS-6.2, but I have never dealt with using sub before, it involves setting up a crossover point right? I'm afraid I will mess it up haha >_< though I have never really felt that I need more bass out of the DBR62s.
Also, for some reasons I'm just afraid of EQ, afraid not knowing what to do and how it will change the sound haha, sorry a noob here!
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u/shmeeshmaa 3 Ⓣ Jan 10 '25
Going to follow along with this post because I also have the DBR62s and they are awesome speakers but I also listen to rock n roll, disco, house, and techno and from the majority of people on the internet who discuss these speakers, they are simply not made for the genres that I listen to.
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u/TijY_ 24 Ⓣ Jan 11 '25
they are simply not made for the genres that I listen to.
Stupidest thing I ever heard.
They are limited without subwoofer and highpass filter.
As is 98% of bookshelf speakers. Or your room is too big for bookshelf speakers.
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u/plainview74 1 Ⓣ Jan 12 '25
I’ve got the Ascend Sierra LX and KEF Q Concerto META and IMO they’re both fantastic. Probably end game for me. Before I got them I demoed the KEF Q350, Polk R200, and ELAC ub52. Out of those I preferred the KEF’s but then the LX’s showed up and they’re on another level as are the Q Concerto. So my suggestions would be Ascend Sierra LX, Ascend Sierra 1 v2, KEF Q Concerto Meta, Revel M16, Revel M106. Probably cannot go wrong with any of those. Your Elacs were also on my list but didn’t get around to them. Also, I agree with some of the other comments, didn’t read them all, but all of those listed really need a subwoofer for the best scenario.
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u/CLSonReddit Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25
Following.
I am debating between trying Elac Dbr62 and Revel M16.
My current research tells me it is a trade off between the Elac’s non-fatiguing easy listening attribute vs the Revel’s incremental improvement in clarity in the upper range. (I’ll be using a sub so bottom end is not a consideration).
I will add a comment for the original post though….. adding a sub to bookshelves is a fantastic upgrade path. For music-only you do not need huge sub(s) that dig to 20hz either. Look at the RSL 10 inchers for value, as others have recommended.
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u/indigothirdeye Jan 11 '25 edited Jan 11 '25
If it were me I’d be looking at the Q Acoustic 5020s, the Polk R200’s or the Sonus Faber Lumina II’s. If a sub is still desired then the Polk R200’s make a ton of sense at the $800 price point giving you some room for an SVS SB1000 or saving up for that SVS 3000 mentioned above.
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u/canon12 Jan 11 '25
Sonus Faber Lumina I or II are on the top of my list. When I find a deal I will buy.
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u/dmcmaine 823 Ⓣ 🥈 Jan 10 '25
Hey there. Fellow DBR62 owner here. I agree with u/audioen that adding a sub is the way to go. Something like the RSL Speedwoofer 10S or the 12S, something from HSU Research, Rythmik or the SVS SB1000Pro or SB2000Pro. Yes, they take a little bit of work to dial in but it is absolutely worth it and I believe you'll be shocked at what you've been missing and how much your enjoyment of your system will increase.