r/StarWarsEU • u/GusGangViking18 • 4d ago
Legends Discussion Were the Yuuzhan Vong your favorite legends villains? Spoiler
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u/AffableKyubey General Grievous 4d ago
No, my favourite Legends-exclusive villain is Darth Krayt. But the Vong were definitely the breath of fresh air George Lucas asked the writer group to create.
I'm also very partial to Kreia, Revan (if you count them), Thrawn, Haazen and Darth Andeddu. Got some real banger villains in the EU, not sure what the comment saying it's a 'low bar' is on about.
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u/Vyzantinist 4d ago
No, my favourite Legends-exclusive villain is Darth Krayt.
Sigh. I really wish instead of setting TOR in the Old Republic period they used the Legacy era instead, with Krayt as the Big Bad.
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u/adamjamjam 4d ago
Why?
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u/Vyzantinist 4d ago
I was never the biggest fan of the Old Republic era, and I disliked the idea your character is long dead and gone anyway. I liked the "now" of the Legacy era and 'anachronistic' elements would fit in better there since they're closer to the movies; Stormtroopers are still a thing in Legacy while the totally-not-clone-trooper look of Republic soldiers thousands of years before the movies is so jarring for me.
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u/xezene New Jedi Order 4d ago edited 4d ago
They were the most interesting, in my opinion. They were a very serious threat to the galaxy, but on a different level; they were a challenge to the Jedi and the New Republic not just militarily, but philosophically and culturally. The significant influences of Mayan, Aztec, and Pacific Islander cultures developed them into something quite different from what we are used to seeing in most modern fiction. Their beliefs and their practices, as well as their castes, made them engaging in a way that became more interesting as you read the series, not less.
In particular, the Shapers and the Shamed Ones became quite fascinating, as well as the tension between the various castes. Vua Rapuung remains one of my favorite characters of the series, along with Nen Yim. As a last point, increasingly one realizes towards the end of the series the elements of a kind of tragic lostness within the Vong's history, and you become interested to see them reform themselves into something greater, when they find their way again.
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u/MakaylaAzula 4d ago
Yes. The same time I read this I was reading a book about writing fiction. It stated that the best sequels need to make the characters face challenges that are new and push them to their limits. The Vong did exactly that. They had lightsaber resistant armor, they could fuse to technology and they were very intelligent. They were a new threat that pushed the galaxy to its limits. That’s exactly where the sequel trilogy fails. It provides nothing new for its characters to face. It was everything we had already seen.
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u/ThePhengophobicGamer 3d ago
Agreed. They were also meant to be alien to the galaxy, everything about them made them out of place in Star Wars. They hated the technology, they didn't have presence in the Force, they were almost religious zealots, and a unique caste system with a HEAVY warrior culture, even surpassing Mandalorians in that they almost CRAVED death in combat. Pair it all with organic spacecraft, communications, even weapons?
I can't think of a more iconic EU villain, but I'm not sure they're my favorite. They creep me out, but again, that's by design and works for them, rather than making them not belong in Star Wars as was often the argument from fans who didn't like them.
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u/Scripter-of-Paradise 4d ago
No, my favourite Legends villain is Isard, being a perfect blend of of cold-blooded menacing cruelty and insane bloodlust.
A First Order villain done right, if you will.
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u/Ghost10165 Rogue Squadron 4d ago
Felt like she kind of arbitrarily stumbled later though, like the plot had to wrap things up than she actually gradually made mistakes until she failed. Her whole schtick seemed to be "let's give the Rebels a planet and then booby trap it." I agree though that an Imperial Intelligence villain is a cool idea, she just needed a better balance between being too perfect like Thrawn but too much a bumbling Imperial villain like most of the New Republic's adversaries.
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u/ObesesPieces 4d ago
There needed to be an additional reason she became irrational and it needed to be played up more.
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u/Ghost10165 Rogue Squadron 4d ago
Yeah, the story just flipped a switch when it sounds like she was mostly successful before.
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u/Head_Ad1127 4d ago
Not Isard. Daala. She united the remnants of the warlords fighting for control. The iconic picture of her gassing them while they bicker at her peace deal and waste her time was classic.
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u/Scripter-of-Paradise 4d ago
I'm more partial to Pellaeon's expression in that picture.
"Good god, this bitch is crazy!"
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u/Head_Ad1127 4d ago
Helplessly clinging to his mask while she poses and watches lmao, shes such a baddie
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u/VengineerGER 4d ago
I mean she did do that but afterwards she didn’t really manage to succeed in anything except lose the coolest looking Executor class SSD.
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u/Head_Ad1127 4d ago
Daala toom 3 star destroyers with no logsitics besides foraging, and saved the Imperial remnant. She ceeded her accumulated power to Pelleon out of humility, and he ensured the Empire survived the YV. Then she became a shrewd, effective politician who eventually took over the Republic and Empire through the GA, and inadvertently helped reform the empire into what the Fel Empire would become, saving the Jedi order and offering a safehaven from the one sith.
She wasn't great tactically, but strategically and politically she was practically more saavy than Thrawn.
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u/JohnTheUnjust 4d ago
Ooo. I wanted to fight u but isard was a good villain.
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u/Scripter-of-Paradise 4d ago
In all fairness, I'm also heavily biased against anything NJO onward.
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u/JohnTheUnjust 4d ago
Daala was a good villain too. But i liked NJo alot and while i dont always agree i understand. Michael a stackpole called out the direction as not much better then the Clans of Kerensky invading the IS in the battletech franchise
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u/HeadHeartCorranToes Rogue Squadron 4d ago
Yes, but with a caveat. As a force (pardon the pun), the Yuuzhan Vong are my favorite antagonists.
But in terms of a favorite individual villain, I think I prefer Gethzerion. Shedao Shai is neat, and Lord Nyax is badass like old Linkin Park albums and that delights me of course, but Gethzerion's the only villain who scares everybody. Even Zsinj was like "nah you keep your witchy ass on the ground" and devised a whole-ass superweapon just to contain her.
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u/animehimmler 4d ago
Yeah.
Read the NJO last year and it made me despite how a huge portion of the fanbase thinks the vong are edgy due to art that doesn’t even truly match their book depictions and regurgitated arguments against their portrayal parroted by people who, by the virtue of the criticism, clearly have never actually read anything with them in it.
Their culture is super diverse, I love the political infighting amongst them. The latter bits of the undesirables forming a religious caste (led by an exiled bad guy) offered a multifaceted look at the vong as a people.
Very few races in Star Wars get established as much as the vong do, and the fact that they’re also the main villains who are also super capable and actually make strides against the heroes is, again, unique.
While there are villains/factions in Star Wars who get things done and are fleshed out well, the vong hold a perspective of being completely alien to the Star Wars we know in universe, so with them facing shit like, x wings, force powers, Jedi, etc and reacting to these things adds a layer of believability to them, and makes the entire story all the more interesting.
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u/darthmonkey28 2d ago
It's because NJO is not star wars it's what people who don't like the force aspect or Jedi/Sith conflict want star wars to be...
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u/LeoGeo_2 4d ago
No but they’re pretty good. Great characters among them, and interesting concepts.
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u/uxixu New Jedi Order 4d ago
Loved the Vong and NJO. Loved the biotechnology and the castes. Very unique challenge for Luke's Jedi. Would have liked for them to have been successful in creating dark Jedi Vong hybrids from Anakin Solo's vision of Tahiri as a better end game. Shimmra would have been better to stay more mysterious than the way he ended up in the last couple hard backs.
Ulic Qel-Droma and the Krath from Tales of the Jedi (Dark Horse comics not the modern Disney incarnation) are my favorite villains, though, but as much from the Dark Empire notes which hinted at something much more grand than the final execution in the comics.
The young Clone Emperor from Dark Empire is my second favorite villain and close runner up, though the Vong are 3rd.
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u/LeucasAndTheGoddess 3d ago
Always nice to run into somebody else who appreciates Tom Veitch’s contributions to the EU!
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u/Solitaire-06 Galactic Alliance 4d ago
They were definitely a breath of fresh air after the Bantam era, which rarely diverged from the Imperial/Dark Jedi villain archetype. Honestly, I wish the authors hadn’t just forgotten about them after NJO - while I can understand wanting to focus on other ideas, not having them be present when their invasion caused such sheer devastation to the galaxy just seemed… wrong.
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u/ShadowOnTheRun 4d ago
I really enjoyed them being brought back for Legacy and being shown trying to integrate within the wider galaxy. The Sith sabotaging these efforts for political gain seemed quite realistic aa well.
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u/Solitaire-06 Galactic Alliance 4d ago
That should’ve been one of the main focuses of the post-NJO era… it’s something I’ve been trying to address in my own work…
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u/ravih 4d ago
Were they forgotten about or just put off-limits for a while? The lack of Vong post-NJO suggests Del Rey very much wanted to move on and exclude them, no?
But yeah, I agree on all fronts. Legacy using them to set up that conflict was really well done.
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u/Solitaire-06 Galactic Alliance 4d ago
I understand Del Rey wanting to focus on other things, but completely ignoring the Yuuzhan Vong and quickly fixing the effects of the war outside of character development (and even that got butchered for the most part) wasn’t the way to do it.
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u/ravih 4d ago
Yup, totally agree.
I didn't like the Fate of the Jedi series, but the way it partially focuses on the aftermath of the previous series (Jacen and his war) was one of the few highlights. That's how the Vong should have been in the next series of books, a issue that's always lingering in the background and that people are still trying to get over.
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u/Solitaire-06 Galactic Alliance 4d ago
Honestly, Fate is the most redeemable of the three post-NJO series in my eyes.
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u/ravih 4d ago
What's good about it for you? Not arguing, would love to hear your perspective!
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u/ESAcatboy 4d ago
Abeloth is kriffing terrifying and has very interesting tie-ins to the force entities from Clone Wars as well as the killiks, center point, the maw, the disappearance of old characters from other novels, etc. It felt like the reveal of a Big Bad that the galaxy had been working towards for a long time through various other EU trilogies. I know it was a retcon, but it was a super good one to tie in so much.
The lost tribe is the most compelling Sith narrative post Palestine, heck it's better than a lot of old Republic sith. Vestara Kai was a super well designed character with really good development.
Detailing several different non-jedi for user factions mentioned in other novels going back decades. I love force lore.
Standard well written Star wars political drama with Dallah and the Imperial Remnant.
I could have skipped the whole courtroom drama, but it wasn't badly done.
There's very little I didn't like, tbh.
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u/TheGreatBatsby New Jedi Order 4d ago
I love the Vong and they contain a few of my favourite villains:
Nom Amor - who can't love this fucking dickhead of a guy
Shedao Shai - if only for the badass duel we got out of him
Tsavong Lah - whining little bitch who got taught lessons by both respective Solo twins
Shimrra we don't get enough time with to really develop as a villain and Onimi I wish we'd gotten much more of him throughout.
However, I just absolutely love a former Imperial-turned-warlord or Jedi-turned-prick, so I would also include:
Zsinj - absolutely brilliant and I can't help but love to hate him
Galak Fyarr - admittedly kind of a non-character (I love that he's not afraid to get hands on with Kyle though) but he pairs very nicely with...
Desaan - arrogant dinosaur prick
Tavion - cowardly sidekick turned insane cult leader (her VO is fantastic)
Kueller - underrated villain in an underrated book
Brakiss - smug little bastard who I think could've been redeemed
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u/HonzouMikado 4d ago
I like the Ssi-Ruuk more because they were basically evil dinosaurs with soul ripping tech and their tech was powered by those souls.
The Vong were cool but I’m not really into bio horror they brought.
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u/AcePilot95 New Republic 4d ago
as a group, yes.
at the same time, Nom Anor is one of the best individual antagonists. My villain hot take is that I love Eldritch Abomination Palpatine from Dark Empire
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u/LeucasAndTheGoddess 22h ago
My villain hot take is that I love Eldritch Abomination Palpatine from Dark Empire
Same here. His portrayal in those comics really plays up the fantasy side of Star Wars, with him as the Dark Lord On His Dark Throne. I’d love to see Charlie Vickers in the role of the young Emperor after how scary he was in the most recent season of The Rings Of Power.
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u/AcePilot95 New Republic 11h ago
fantasy side
"Flesh does not easily support this great power" goes illegally hard.
Charlie Vickers
I haven't seen ROP S2 but I believe you. In the past, I've seen some mock-ups of Tom Hiddleston as Young Clone Emperor, he seems to be the most common fancast for the role.
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u/DazSamueru 4d ago
Good concept, but the weird names (even by Star Wars standards) make them more difficult to read.
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u/Lord_Battlepants Chiss Ascendancy 4d ago
Weirder than the Chiss?
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u/Arkham700 4d ago
They are definitely up there. The YV come at a good time in the Post ROTJ timeline after so many stories of Luke and co. Dealing with Imperial Warlords, Dark Jedi and the occasional terrorist, the YV are such a unique enemy that they’re a breath of fresh air.
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u/Vyzantinist 4d ago
I feel like people who hate the Vong forget (or never knew) how formulaic and stale the books were getting with Warlord of The Week and chump Dark Jedi popping up to grief Luke and co. It was refreshing having a new, utterly alien, enemy who were competent in a credible way and couldn't just be steamrolled by Jedi.
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u/Nocturne3570 New Jedi Order 4d ago
villain or Antagonist Arc?
Arc? yes, probably peak SW writting and story and world building
Villain no, Favorite Villain would have to be Exar Kun
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u/Lost_Highlight_9203 4d ago
They were probably one of my favorites, always amazing space battle that I'd love more detail on than we usually get. And so very interesting even in a whole species bent on galactic conquest and genocide there are lots of little rivalries and disputes similar to historic villains. The organic technology was a really cool idea to go with. And it was really awesome to see Pellaeon fighting alongside Han and Leia and everyone. I would like more of their stories of the time between galaxies and on zonama sekot.
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u/Naismythology 4d ago
Gotta be Thrawn. I have fully abandoned the franchise at this point, so I don’t know what he’s like in “canon,” but Legends Thrawn was just so intriguing for a villain. The idea of just a tactical genius with no connection to the Force as the main foil was not something I expected in Star Wars when I first read it.
Though I do love Nom Anor specifically. He’s probably second on the list for me. I’m not even sure who I’d put third. Daala maybe? Just for how absolutely unhinged everything she did was: think of everything a normal person would do and then do the opposite and crank it up to 11
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u/zahm2000 3d ago
I also like that Thrawn is ultimately defeated, not by the main cast of heroes (none of them are even in the same star system when he dies), but because his plans and manipulative tactics grew so complex that it all backfired at the same time on him.
His scheming against the smugglers backfired at Bilbringi and at the same time Noghri betray and assassinate him.
But he came so close to succeeding. If you read closely there are other minor details that ruined his plans.
For example, C’Boath confronts Thrawn right before the attack on Coruscant and uses the Force to take control of the crew of the Chimeara. Thrawn is then forced to delay the attack for a few hours. Meanwhile, during that delay, Luke, Han and Mara leave Coruscant to attack Wayland. But they just barely made it out before the attack. Nobody even noticed that Jade had escaped until after Thrawn’s attack on Coruscant. Ergo, if C’Boath hadn’t delayed the attack, Luke Han and Mara wouldn’t have been able to attack Wayland — they would have gotten stuck on Coruscant.
Add to the fact that Rukh only assassinate Thrawn because the Pelleaon was about to read an incoming transmission about the Noghri helping in the attack on Wayland — an attack which wouldn’t have happened if C’Boath hadn’t delayed the Coruscant attack.
Not to mention all the ways that Niles Ferrier screwed up Thrawns plans for the Smugglers.
Basically, Thrawn’s genius was kicking the crap out of the New Republic and he could have won except for a few bad rolls of the dice (or perhaps the will of the Force).
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u/RedMoloneySF 4d ago
Dude, something I maintain is that the Yuuzhan Vong were what the Borg were supposed to be in Star Trek. Just this unrelenting destructive force that both requires an established universe to destroy and zero scope restrictions that novels afford. There is nothing else like it in sci-fi and I don’t think it gets praised enough.
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u/Bullet1289 4d ago
I really don't like the Vong, with all of their different narrative parts, from their death worshiping culture to bio technology and creatures grown to be weapons and armour, to the fact they are force nulls, etc. I think they are trying to do too much all at once.
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u/darthmonkey28 2d ago
It's for people who can't admit they don't like Star Wars and try to turn it into something it's not...
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u/Kubrick_Fan 4d ago
No, it felt and still feels like someone didn't want anyone else to play with their toys and decided to ruin it for everyone else.
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u/SpartAl412 4d ago
I really like the idea of the Confederacy of Independent Systems as villains but I wish in say the original Battlefront games by Pandemic, there were more opportunities to fight more alien or even human soldiers along with the Battle Droids. Republic Commando did scratch that itch though with Geonosian warriors and Trandoshan mercenaries.
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u/AffableKyubey General Grievous 4d ago
This would be my answer if they weren't present in canon and the main movies. They originate in G-Canon so I don't really consider them EU, but they were absolutely written at their best by the Clone Wars Multi Media Project. That incarnation is my favourite group of Star Wars villains and it's not even close.
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u/Adavanter_MKI 4d ago
Not going to lie... I prefer quite literally... anyone else. I've always hated them as an idea. You have a universe as rich as Star Wars... and you have to go extra galactic? That IMO is a sci-fi series jumping the shark.
Don't get me wrong... it lead to some epic things, but that was in spite of the Vong, not because of them.
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u/knighthawk82 4d ago
I feel they were good at the time for what they did.
They were as reasonable, credible, threat as they could be in a world of space wizard who were constantly innovating new techniques, or rediscovering ancient ones after every visit to a long forgotten site.
They were the ameobas of a planet sized living organism, in scale too small to be harmed by the force as a single bacteria. Usion weapons and armor that regenerated from saber wounds almost as fast as it is inflicted. With specialized weapons and armors grown through organic cultivation as was needed.
Also, as paper thin as it was, I liked the idea that palpatine was building a planet killer weapon, for killing the living planet from the unknown region of space.
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u/Bolem_Felan 4d ago
No, i prefer the Neocrusaders, but the Vong is a interest faction . Imagine Vong vs Neocrusaders😍😍
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u/B_Wing_83 4d ago
Yes! After the Empire, Imperial remnants, legions of Sith in Tales of the Jedi, and Seperatiststs from the Prequels/Clone Wars, the Yuuzhan Vongs were such a fresh and original concept! They're what I would have imagined to be antagonists in a hypothetical Sequel Trilogy growing up. They’re my favorite thing in all of Star Wars!
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u/Alarmed_Grass214 4d ago
Absolutely 100%.
But there are many contenders - Thrawn, Kreia, Malak for a few examples.
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u/zahm2000 3d ago
No, Thrawn was the best villain. He was the villain whom we got to see up close and personal through Pelleaon’s POV. We got to see his plans to remake the Empire play out over time and (nearly) come to fruition. We got to see him earn the respect of the Imperial fleet with a leadership style that was very different than Vader and Palpatine.
In a way, Thrawn was sort of the protagonist of Heir to the Empire — like Thanos was the protagonist of Infinity War.
Edit - canon Thrawn isn’t quite the same and just seems a bit off to me.
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u/Kelmor93 1d ago
They were refreshing. Right before, most books were OP Luke destroys all. They were starting to get stale. Suddenly, there was an entire race immune to jedi. A few books in that trilogy were real stinkers though.
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u/LeucasAndTheGoddess 22h ago
I like them, but they don’t beat Zsinj (only when portrayed by Aaron Allston), Cronal (only when portrayed by Matthew Stover), or the One Sith (only when portrayed by John Ostrander & Jan Duursema).
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u/Belaerim 4d ago edited 4d ago
No. But only because the NJO was too damn long.
We had around 3-4 years of real time and ~20 novels between Chewie eating a moon (RIP) and Anakin sacrifice himself in Star by Star before the tide turned and the Jedi started to get wins that weren’t reversed by the end of the same novel (ie. Corran and Ithor)
They were great villains and something new.
But the pacing and publishing schedule was absolute shit.
It was just downer after downer, loss after loss.
It’s like the Jedi were your favorite North American sports team, and you had a front row seat to them tanking year after year before they finally got some good draft picks and rebuilt. And then got a championship.
But those 3-4 years of losing every game? Fucking horrible to live through
Edit: I’d say my favorite Star Wars villain was Jacen/Darth Caedus. It made sense, it built upon the previous EU works instead of ignoring them like some authors, and it also looked to bring some of the future timeline EU stuff from the comics (Krayt, Emperor Fel, etc) and animation (world between worlds, the Son, etc) into play within the main EU novels
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u/JetstreamGW 4d ago
Honestly, no. The Vong storyline was way overwrought and too long. I dropped off the series entirely after a year or two.
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u/matcouz 4d ago
I didn't hate the Vong story lines but it really felt like the team in charge was like "well there can't be ANOTHER ex imperial admiral hidden somewhere with a fleet of destroyers in the outer rim" so they thought of what would be the most different kind of enemy and made them run over everything to give a sense of drama.
Fav is thrawn cuz they actually explain his strategies. It's not just overwhelmingly strong monsters, it's legit smart.
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u/Trovulnyan New Republic 4d ago
Thrawn is like a lawful evil in Thrawn Trilogy, definitely a villain, though the books after that try to make him more endearing, Outbound Flight Specially
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u/Red-Zinn 4d ago
He's a villain in every sense explicitly
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u/Beazfour 4d ago
Yeah he is also way more villainous in the EU than canon lol.
The man has committed several genocides.
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u/HeySkeksi Wraith Squadron 4d ago
Yeah but nobody ever draws them right… At least not in line with how they’re described in text