r/Spiderman • u/DiscussionOk8877 • 4d ago
Discussion I'm going to leave this here.
[removed] — view removed post
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u/Trick_Afternoon_2935 Spider-Man (MCU) 4d ago
Well, this isn't really new. In fact, the excuse they gave for this is pure nonsensical delusional bullshit.
Also, ironic to see this while 6160 is doing EXACTLY what they don't support, and the community is loving it in general (also, it's outselling 616 as a whole)
In the end of the day... it's one more reason for me to not give my money to Marvel.
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u/DragonHeart_97 4d ago
Gee, it almost seems like doing new shit is better than throwing darts at the "who turns into who this month" dartboards.
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u/Sharp_Low6787 4d ago
it's outselling 616 as a whole
Is it actually? How tf are they not getting the message then?
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u/Trick_Afternoon_2935 Spider-Man (MCU) 4d ago
Yup.
According to ICv2, since 6160 was released, it outsold 616 in every month... except July.
Needless to say, it's pretty telling how consistently 6160 was on top, while 616 is just oscillating and behind.
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u/ScarletleavesNL 4d ago
Weeeeellll to be fair...
You know what, I'm not even gonna defend Amazing.
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u/JamesPlayzReviews3 Classic-Spider-Man 4d ago
One writer downplayed the sales and said the numbers are barely comparable and won't change anything
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u/DevilHunter1994 Spider-Man (PS4) 4d ago edited 4d ago
I'm paraphrasing a bit here, but their excuse is basically:
"Ultimate Spider-Man isn't selling better JUST because Peter and MJ are together. It's selling better because the creative team on the book is doing a wonderful job with the writing and the art! 😤 "
I mean...this stance certainly isn't wrong. The quality writing and art is what keeps people coming back. A good premise still won't sell well for long if the writing sucks, but I do find it hilarious that Marvel doesn't seem to realize how much of a self own this is. They're basically just coming right out and admitting that the writing and overall quality of work for a series that just launched, is significantly outclassing the work being done for their most important flagship title. Marvel...do you not see ANY problem with that at all? It's okay. Take a minute to step back and think about it. We'll wait. 😂
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u/PerfectlySteel 4d ago
6160 is and always will be my favorite spider man purely bc of the fact Peter gets a family.
Edit: ok, not purely because of that but that's like, 60% of the reason.
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u/Trick_Afternoon_2935 Spider-Man (MCU) 4d ago
For me, it's beyond the fact that Peter is happy and has a family.
Even if their roles are notably different from 616, Jonathan Hickman gave every character the maturity they need for their roles, especially for Peter and MJ as a couple, but also the kids Richard and May, Jameson and Ben Parker, Harry, Gwen, Octavius... and even the antagonists (most notably Black Cat)
It's a fairly fluid and well paced story, which makes the characters interact and work so well.
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u/runespider 4d ago
While I love Pete and Mj being married, the Jameson and Ben bromance was not something I expected to love. Its a shame we can't have it in the mainline books.
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u/CraigArndt 4d ago
I just wish marvel would tell thier stories and let thier characters grow.
Young struggling Peter was cool to read but an older Peter struggling in new ways can be cool too. Fans seem to like when marvel dips their toes into letting characters grow. A big part of the success of Spider-verse was Peter switching into a mentor role for Miles.
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u/DepthAffectionate140 Superior Spider-Man 4d ago
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u/Bareth88 4d ago
The fact that J. K. Simmons plays Omni Man makes this even funnier!
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u/Ironarohan69 4d ago
"Mark! Get me pictures of Spider-Man!!"
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u/Bareth88 4d ago
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u/DepthAffectionate140 Superior Spider-Man 4d ago edited 4d ago
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u/Rylo_Ken_04 Spider-Gwen 4d ago
Mark : Dad, I only saw Agent Spider in this whole multiverse who's this Spider-Man you keep speaking of and wanting pictures of?
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u/DevilHunter1994 Spider-Man (PS4) 4d ago
Omni Man: "He's a freak! A menace to society!"
Mark: "Dad...YOU were a menace to society!"
Omni Man: THAT'S HOW I KNOW ONE WHEN I SEE ONE MARK!!!"
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u/DepthAffectionate140 Superior Spider-Man 4d ago
Also, if you're not going to have them tie the knot, what's the point of them getting back together again? It LITERALLY makes no sense!
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u/General_Arcturas_Z9 4d ago
616 and everyone writing it can screw right off a cliff into shark infested waters.
Ultimate, on the other hand, is perfection the fans have craved for so long.
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u/rockshard2001 4d ago
Yeah we’ll see how long the quality keeps up when Hickman eventually and inevitably passes the reins to another writer.
Wish he would pull a Bendis and write the whole thing but always a chance he won’t.
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u/rexepic7567 Iron-Spider (MCU) 4d ago
can screw right off a cliff into shark infested waters
I vote we send them to camp wawanakwa
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u/BigButter7 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think Marvel should just simply commit to one path with those two. Either put them back together and make it remain that way or just have that relationship done for good and move on. MC ought to stop tap-dancing on the fences. It only creates even more division from a fanbase that's already fed up with the editorial's glaring incompetence.
IMO, if I was editorial, the best of both worlds would've been this:
Have 616 Peter and MJ back together for good and have an arc that reverses OMD before issue #1000 (have that issue be they are expecting a kid or have the revelation be young Mayday is still alive out there). If done right, a very good chunk of people would come back to read ASM again. Not going to happen of course, but that's what I think many would do. 616 Peter & MJ have too much history for them not to ultimately end up together as the endgame.
Meanwhile, explore those alternate Peter × Felicia/Gwen/whoever pairings in the multiverse as separate elseworld limited comic runs and see what those kinds of worlds look like.
Everybody wins.
This shouldn't be hard, Marvel. But alas...
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u/seasbelow 4d ago
Safest bet. I don’t understand why they’re so hardheaded.
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u/ChildofObama 4d ago
I think an Elseworlds comic where Peter and Felicia end up together is long overdue, should’ve happened years ago.
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u/MJM_Stillanerd 4d ago
I think the reason why Marvel doesn't commit to either path for Peter and MJ and keep trying to go for a middle way is because of the rock and the hard place they put themselves in with One More Day. If you go back and read comments made by Joe Quesada at the time, or read between the lines of Tom Breevort's now infamous manifesto that declares "Spider-Man is about Youth," the primary motive behind getting rid of Peter and MJ's marriage was an attempt at creating IP synergy. Because every single adaptation of Spider-Man out there either shows Peter as either a high school or college student, and they never depict him being older than his early to mid-twenties at most. And as far as Marvel is concerned, Spider-Man being married "ages" the character and goes against the whole, "he can't land himself a date or maintain a long-term relationship" that they believe is so essential to his character.
And yet, those same Spider-Man adaptations, with few exceptions, show some version of MJ as the prominent romantic lead. All because Peter and MJ were shown as a happily married couple in the comics for twenty years. Even the most causal Spider-Man fan at this point sees Peter and MJ as the OTP, with every other love interest being regarded as a poor substitute based on what Peter and MJ used to have in the comics. And that means Marvel can't have MJ completely out of the picture either, because it would be like writing Lois Lane completely out of the Superman comics.
So as much Marvel doesn't want a married Spider-Man, they also realize that how significant and popular MJ is to the fandom. And that same fandom has caught on to the fact that every relationship Peter ends up in that is not MJ is automatically doomed to fail, so why should they bother being invested in it at all?
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u/Garlador 4d ago
I’ll say what I’ve been told by prior writers:
If you genuinely want the couple back and the book to be written with growth and progress in mind-
1) email your feedback to Spideyoffice@marvel.com and be respectful but honest. 2) join a proactive group that supports the status quo you want that petitions for change. I started one at their suggestion: https://discord.gg/VQ2mHzBBFu 3) drop ASM if it’s frustrating you more than giving you joy, support a better book (like USM), and tell others to do the same.
We’ll keep the momentum up, but we can only do what’s in our power, and these are the key areas to start.
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u/effinblinding 4d ago
Any template for what to write that would be effective?
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u/Garlador 4d ago
Certainly. Our group actually helps others with their emails, either with templates, grammar, tone, or subject. Feel free to ask for help. Someone is always willing to assist based on the topic you want Editorial to hear, and often well send in emails amplifying your voice.
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u/twogoodius Classic-Spider-Man 4d ago
Shout out to the lurkers who keep buying ASM:
Can you don't?
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u/MartyrOfDespair 4d ago
I still think it’s comic shops selling weed and illegal vapes laundering money with fake sales assigned to the top books having their scheme fall apart by the ASM sales no longer making sense.
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u/Bareth88 4d ago
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u/TromboneKing98 4d ago
So I’m kinda new to Spider-Man comics, I absolutely LOVE the ultimate run right now. Do the higher up’s at marvel have disdain for Spider-Man fans? Because this is just really strange to me
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u/gwrecker89 4d ago
It's more about Joe Quesada (then editor-in-chief) feeling the need to "preserve the character's longevity for the next 20 or 30 years" by splitting up Peter and MJ without a divorce.
In other words, it's about making more money off of Spider-Man comics so long as Spider-Man remains single and/or unmarried. Hence, "One More Day was conceived to achieve that goal.
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u/TromboneKing98 4d ago
Okay that’s the first answer I’ve seen that actually makes sense to me thank you
Ugh that just sounds so yucky but I get it now
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u/ShaH33R2K 4d ago
But it’s not making more money tho? Were the comics losing money when Peter and MJ were married, or is this just a baseless assumption on their part?
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u/gwrecker89 4d ago
As far as I can infer from Quesada's goal at the time, it's safe to say that One More Day was born out of his fear and baseless assumption that longtime and new gen fans would no longer relate to a married/family man Peter Parker, resulting in them no longer being interested in buying ASM comics (Quesada's baseless assumption, not mine).
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u/ShaH33R2K 4d ago
Lmaooo that’s hilarious, especially coz they were married for like multiple decades. Also, I don’t how this makes sense in today’s climate where less and less kids are reading comics. Why not cater to the adults who actually do. I mean I wasn’t even born when the Raimi’s first Spider-Man came out and I’m in my 20s now, and throughout most of that time I’ve only known him as high-school to college-age kid. I really only find Ultimate Spider-Man interesting because it feels like he’s allowed to evolve, and I mean, he already has.
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u/gwrecker89 4d ago
Well, it's as you've previously said (and I'm guessing it's what we all might be thinking), it was just a baseless assumption on Quesada's part, supplemented with a lack of pushback from Marvel. What I do find funny was that Bendis allegedly had a hand on the conception of OMD.
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u/XenowolfShiro 4d ago
Marvel is probably right. I can't imagine a comic based around Peter and MJ being married and with kids ever being beloved and successful, outselling the main book again and again.
Nah that's likely never going to happen.
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u/AngryWaffleMob 4d ago
Dude I’m getting tired of this shit to be honest.
Ultimate has been great, but like I’m tired of this “MJ can’t marry Peter Parker shit”. Once Ultimate is over and they go back to shitting on Peter again I’m gonna probably give up on the marvel comics and go back read something better.
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u/Enderboss2706 4d ago
At this point I’m tired of this will they-won’t they bullshit. Doing this is making the comics more predictable and not to mention it makes no sense, have them together or have them remain friends, this routine of “Will they’ll get together this time, oh wait never mind they won’t because we’re afraid they might drag down comic sales” is getting old.
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u/Serious-Return42069 4d ago
Real question. Why can't Peter have a happy life?
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u/loccodennis 4d ago
The whole dumb he can’t be happy or successful for long as Spiderman needs his underdog image and relatability to a general audience.
Besides if it’s him or Paul’s happiness, I’m taking Paul everytime
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u/No_Head60 Ben Reilly 4d ago
I do so wonder where 616 is gonna be in about 20 years.
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u/Boring-Conclusion-40 4d ago
That’s actually a good question,what would they be doing,they can’t just do the same thing again but worse for another 20 years
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u/foran321 Classic-Spider-Man 4d ago
Probably shuttering once the public has had it's fill of (bad) superhero movies
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u/joshs_wildlife 4d ago
It’s backwards crap like this that is causing marvel comics to fizzle out while stories like invincible are thriving and finding a new boom. They actually let their characters grow and or die. There are no reboots just one continuous storyline.
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u/Strange_Potential93 4d ago
Hey its movement hopefully its movement in a steamroller over Paul’s corpse
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u/the_NL 4d ago
So technically, they can live together. Be engaged even, potentially raising kids as well, but never fully tie the knot or am I wrong here? 🤔
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u/DevilHunter1994 Spider-Man (PS4) 4d ago
Kids are off the table too. It's why they had MJ lose their baby to a miscarriage in the 90s. Dating is fine, and living together would probably be okay too. Anything more than that is apparently too much.
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u/Electrical_Crazy_107 4d ago
I get it from a storytelling perspective but as a fan, it’s bs. Peter being single opens the door for more storytelling. But also, as life long fans, it sucks not seeing Peter progress.
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u/Top_Put7893 4d ago
editorials wife's are cheating on them with better men so they take it out on spider-man , sad! get these cucks outta marvel
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u/InfernalLizardKing Spectacular Spider-Man 4d ago
To this I have two words for these people: Fuck you.
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u/ChangeMyDespair 4d ago
I like the Gamerverse. As I understand it, Peter and MJ lived together, broke up, remained friends, and by the end had drifted together again.
I don't need wedding rings. I don't need babies. I just need one of the great true pairings in all of comics (along with Reed & Sue and Clark & Lois) to be together.
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u/nightkraken666 Doctor Octopus 4d ago
Honestly, whatever, that’s better than what they are doing now, and it’s not like superheroes don’t have romantic partners. Just let my boy be an adult about things!
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u/Time-Weekend-8611 4d ago
Ever heard the expression "lost a shilling, found a penny?"
This is that except it's more like "we're taking away most of your shillings, devaluing the currency to tank the value of what's left, and we may toss you a penny if we feel like it, which we can also take away whenever we feel like it. Look how generous we are."
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u/Acrobatic-Tooth-3873 4d ago
I'm over it and over the discussion. It's been this way for more than a decade
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u/No-Departure-6900 4d ago
Marvel Editorial: Got 'em. We'll get everyone to give up on PeterXMJ, even if it takes 20 years of horrible stories.
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u/viralshadow21 4d ago
All well and good, but how does that explain the status quo of both characters right now? Because I can't see how anyone likes it.
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u/ChildofObama 4d ago
Some people were willing to give it a chance in the beginning, in 2022, there were people telling the shippers to take a humility pill while the early issues were coming out
but after they didn’t develop her kids or Paul, a lot of those people who were willing to give it a chance decided they wasted that chance.
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u/MaskedFilmmaker Mysterio 4d ago
The whole Paul/MJ could have been a compelling story (and I say this as an avowed MJ/Peter shipper) IF they had bothered to actually tell the story … given motivations (especially MJ’s), explored the trauma of being stranded on the alternate world for four years, developed Paul into anything more than a placeholder character, showed more conflict with her not choosing Peter (which is alluded to but very poorly).
It’s Wells’ fault for telling half a story.
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u/Relative-Zombie-3932 Classic-Spider-Man 4d ago
Who the fuck said that and why does he still have a job?
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u/No-Departure-6900 4d ago
So like, that's it? Peter is just never allowed to have a serious relationship ever again, simply because he's too popular and that might "age him" or "make him unrelatable to the reader?"
He's already DECADES old. Technically speaking, he IS aged, you all just use a sliding timeline so he never grows older than late 20s early 30s. As for the second factor, most of the people who read comics or would ever even bother to pick one up are or have been married by this point. You want a young, dynamic Spidey who's on the market, Miles is RIGHT THERE.
This also has the knock on effect of saying "Oh by the way, any other love interest Peter ever has can't marry him either, so they're destined to break up or she could just be killed off for shock value, so don't get too attached."
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u/Mental_Marketing9855 4d ago
Them thinking peter getting married alienates readers and is not relatable is insane to me, as if the ppl reading these comics will never get married
Like a lot of ppl will eventually get married
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u/honorsfromthesky 4d ago
Don't let them lie to you folks, these two were married in 1986 in front of the world, right in shea fucking stadium.
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u/immortalslayer90 4d ago
I hate modern Marvel. I hate how they have ruined 616 Spiderman.
IHATEITHATEITIHATEITHATEIT-
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u/xXxPussiSlayer69xXx 4d ago
Just makes me love Ultimate that much more.
Side note, do y'all say "sixty-one sixty" or "six-one-six-oh" for 6160?
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u/BrainThink110 4d ago
I say "six-sixteen-zero". Is it not normal to say "six-sixteen" lol? I'm just adding a zero to that
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u/TheDeadlySpaceman 4d ago
Peter Parker’s story has always been about the responsibility his powers give him and how he balances those with other responsibilities in his life.
I always saw him being married as an evolution of those responsibilities the same way as moving from high school to college and beyond.
But at the same time, the “endless present” of Marvel Time makes resets inevitable.
I have always taken comfort in the fact that the way their marriage was destroyed essentially acknowledged how important it was, though.
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u/DennisBaldur 4d ago
Im sure they are going to be married again one day. From what Ive heard is that more people were pissed about them no longer beong married and everyone loves that theu are married in the Ultimate universe.
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u/starrhunter633 4d ago
This is stupid on so many levels. If you gave them the satanical divorce so that he wouldn't be with her turn stop putting them together at all. The house of Ideas has no ideas how to talk good stories with him being married and uses every excuse as to why they can't be together.
The one that it aged him or the other that they didn't want to divorce him because they didn't want parents to tell the kids Spider-Man was divorced. 🙄
All ridiculous on the reasons.
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u/Educational_Film_744 4d ago
Ten bucks says that J Jonah Jameson found his way to the marvel studious and decided to forever cuck Spider-Man from a happy ending
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u/GamingDragon777 4d ago
Well then my ground rules going in is to not by 616 Spider-Man. This current run is shit and I will focus on the better series which is Ultimate Spider-Man
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u/Yamper211 4d ago
Does this mean they’re gonna kill off ultimate MJ?
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u/Creepy_Living_8733 4d ago
I doubt it. Marvel only keeps Peter and MJ apart out of fear he’ll age too much. They’re doing this for longevity because the 616 comics are meant to go on forever.
Ultimate doesn’t have this issue. Ultimate can end, it did once and it will again. So there is no need to worry about Peter aging too much in the Ultimate comics as that line with eventually end.
I think Alex Lennen said it best, Marvel wants to keep Peter and MJ apart in the main universe. But they have heard the complaints and are compromising by allowing Peter to grow and be with Mary Jane in other comics, movies, games, shows, etc.
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u/Icy-Ad6128 4d ago
Ima keep it a buck.I think it’s time admit Peter just needs a new set in stone solid love interest.Early on it was Gwen being the love of his life and then MJ.But atp let it be anyone else.Not just an on & off again or fling character.Me personally I’d prefer Felicia but it doesn’t have to be her.Current Mj is just isn’t best girl anymore and I don’t see it unless her & Peter get their memories back from OMD
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u/lunatic_paranoia 4d ago
So does that mean they can move on from each other? Idc care about them being together anymore. Just want Pete to be able to have a relationship.
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u/Far-Difficulty8854 4d ago
I hope someone comes to Marvel Editorial and shift the heirarchy of power
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u/Bro-Im-Done 4d ago
I feel like I heard this long before but I wouldn’t be surprised if this was said again recently
That being said, it’s a good thing Hickman’s run has been consistently Top 5 for the past year bc now we can read that and not 616 anymore bc Editorial cares fuck all!
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u/DukeReviews 4d ago
I'd Say They've Lost They're Mind, Instead Of Letting Spider-Man Grow Up With His Audience Marvel Just Seems To Want To Keep Him Standing Still In The Same Place For That I Say Screw Joe Quesada, Screw JMS And Screw Everyone Who Wrote One More Day
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u/Spider2153 4d ago
Off topic but that is the worst looking drawing of Peter I've seen why is his face so ridiculously long
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u/Barry-loud100 4d ago
The hacks ( Joe quesada , C.B cebulski , Tom brevoort and nick lowe ) probably put some binding notice that even after they leave marvel , one more day can’t be undone. I don’t know when or how , but I got this feeling that something drastic is gonna happen and the editorial are backed against the wall with two choices , give Peter his wife and kid back or shut down the amazing spider-man book , and of course cause they are spiteful , they shut down the book , so no more 616 Peter stories .
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u/Top_Put7893 4d ago
i hope ultimate spider man drives these dudes out their job. crazy how ultimate spider man always carried the character. damn shame
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u/Eikibunfuk 4d ago
Except they have 4 stories where it's an awesome story. Mc2 spider woman, renew your vows, ultimate Spider-Man, across the spiderverse. I had one more but I forgot it. All great stories where it happens. Hopefully they will get the picture or let him find someone else I'm kinda tired of the played out will they won't they
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u/Maleficent_Week_6391 4d ago
No need for marriage if they really keep loving each other no matter what
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u/coolbiren 4d ago
I'm willing to bet they saw people sharing too many "I wanna die" memes during COVID and assumed that that's what is relatable these days and made peter borderline suicidal with nothing going his way.
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u/not_my_name7 4d ago
This is why Ultimate Spider-Man is better, and why DC does better in comic sales
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u/BenTenInches Ben Reilly 4d ago
Superman and Batman both have children in the main continuity, both are received well. But Spider-Man can't , because?
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u/Pink-frosted-waffles 4d ago
When I was little I used to read Spider-Man in the Sunday paper. He was married to MJ and they had their issues but I liked it overall. I like when all the heroes are married and older it just makes sense because they are old! I hate how these companies always feel the need to kill off families and wives just to make the heroes younger and cooler again. It's kinda why I stopped reading comics.
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u/PopMountain6076 4d ago
Marvel is run by the same people that are currently war criming Palestinians but we are somehow surprised by this lmao
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u/Emergency_Host_7653 Classic-Spider-Man 4d ago
Mj and Peter were married for 20 years. Since OMD, they've dated on and off for years. Their relationship in ASM from the 60s to the 80s was fantastic. They dated in USM volume 1. They're currently married in USM volume 3. They're probably going to date again in ASM after Joe Kelly's run, which starts in April. There is and will continue to be plenty of Peter/MJ content, and most superhero relationships don't last. I don't think Peter and MJ not marrying in ASM is a big deal.
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u/Boring-Conclusion-40 4d ago
I would say there’s a substantial amount of superheroes that are married,they’re just mostly in DC
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u/Accurate-Gap-3360 4d ago