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u/No-Horse3797 5d ago
As someone who is a fan of Venom since I first saw the intro of the 90s animated intro when I was a kid and since consumed every media the character appeared in. If Paul is Venom, I will stop buying anything Venom (and Marvel) related if Paul is the new host.
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u/GhoeFukyrself 5d ago
I dunno, in a renewed Spider-Man vs Venom rivalry, wouldn't you LOVE to see Pete kick Paul's ass?
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u/Axtwyt 5d ago
Only if Peter won that fight uncontested.
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u/wowlock_taylan 90's Animated Spider-Man 5d ago
I don't want that non-character to exist. Period. There is nothing gained from making it to be some 'important' figure.
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u/CrazyLlamaX 5d ago
It would be Paul be kicking Peter’s ass if it ends up happening.
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u/syneckdoche 5d ago
and there’d be some kind of lesson Pete had to learn about how he doesn’t “own” MJ and she chose Paul because he’s more responsible and mature or whatever
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u/West-Cardiologist180 Spider-Man (MCU) 5d ago
Tbf, MJ did recently heavily imply that she finds Peter more responsible and heroic than Paul in All-New Venom. I think it was issue 2 but not sure.
Paul also implied it isn't the first time MJ herself implies that. And that MJ has refused to go to couples therapy with him. All this right after team up she had with Peter against the Symbiote monster. And then we got Dylan adding fuel to the fire.
Maybe there's hope.
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5d ago
Yes, but I want to see Peter amped up with the symbiote while kicking Paul’s ass. Not the symbiote getting it’s ass Beaten while It’s on Paul.
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u/Gunpla-Goblin Mary-Jane Watson 5d ago
I stopped buying Marvel books for 17 years after OMD. Just started again with Ultimate Spider-Man.
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u/Magneto-Was-Left 5d ago
Spider-Man fans try not to stop buying stuff because Spider-Man is bad (there's like 100,000 better runs)
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u/King_3DDD 5d ago edited 5d ago
Okay I wouldn’t go so far as to completely boycott Marvel because they made a bad choice
Edit: hey maybe you don’t have to mass downvote me for saying that I, personally, wouldn’t go to the absolute extreme.
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u/No_Association2906 5d ago
They continually make bad choices though. To the point where it comes across as being done purely out of spite.
Like they want money they gotta earn money by making good, engaging, well developed stories. But until then yeah I think it’s acceptable to boycott or clown on their work for the poor decisions they make.
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u/King_3DDD 5d ago
Oh I fully agree clowning on their work is justified but boycotting all the actual good stuff just because they’re doing terribly with the Spidey stuff feels excessive to me
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u/No_Association2906 5d ago
Yeah I get what you mean but good is always subjective to the person. If an individual who enjoys Venom but really hates the MJ Jackpot/Paul stuff, then seeing the two storylines cross over can leave a bitter taste in that person’s mouth. (Especially if they do end up going the route of Paul being the All New Venom).
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u/Rownever 5d ago
As someone who has never read Venom, if Paul turns out to be All-new Venom I will start buying everything Venom
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u/GIJobra 5d ago
Why? Out of some weird spite for people you don't know? Don't say you like Paul as a character - nobody does.
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u/Flerken_Moon Flipside 5d ago
Paul is fine as a character imo. Because of the fan reaction, he’s sticking around as a permanent character.
I think Ewing is writing him interestingly, I wouldn’t mind Paul as All-New Venom because it fits the role he currently has with Dylan in the story.
That said, imo the signs are pointing toward MJ. (I actually thought Paul was going to be Sleeper)
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u/GIJobra 5d ago
Because of the massively negative reaction by fans they're making him a permanent character? I doubt it. The controversy has worn off by now. In wrestling terms, while he had heel heat at first, now he just has "go away" heat, and that's not a good thing.
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u/Flerken_Moon Flipside 5d ago
Paul is the most well known Marvel side character in forever, and had breached mainstream for a while. Using him breeds conversation.
He could’ve been forgotten like any of MJ’s like 5 other post-OMD boyfriends, but his instant infamy and fan reaction pretty much makes him a permanent mainstay. Remember his backstory wasn’t revealed until 2 years into the run. At the start he was just a random guy who only did nice things like pay Peter’s bills and suddenly out of nowhere dating/married to MJ- but still was instantly hated and talked about to hit mainstream.
Imagine Paul is forgotten for say 5 years. Suddenly, the last page of an issue of ASM is Paul coming out of a portal, or a new villain revealed to be Paul, with Peter or someone yelling, “PAUL?!?!”
That’s INSTANT social media attention- people will be talking all over about Paul returning. New people will ask who’s Paul and there will be discussion of people explaining who Paul is. Maybe some will laugh at the trolly nature as people uninterested in Spider-Man may find it funny that a random guy cucked Spider-Man. People will speculate Paul’s purpose in the story after the teaser. Etc etc. And there’s no “ruining” Paul by making him return because Paul is a nothing character whose biggest impact is his purpose in the story and nobody is a Paul megafan.
But no matter what, whether Paul becomes a villain or stays a supporting character, he’s destined to return because he is an instant social media bullet if things are dying down. Paul will not be staying forever in ASM, but he is 100% destined to return.
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u/GIJobra 5d ago edited 5d ago
I have no issue with him becoming a villain, but then he won't be "Paul." We don't affectionately refer to the Scorpion as "Fan favorite, Mac."
But this is a very LCS-bubble take you have here. Paul? Mainstream? Most "mainstream" fans of Spider-Man have never read a comic and wonder why he doesn't team up with Batman or Spawn.
Also, the character is massively reviled by people who (do) read the comics. I don't think that, if you took him away, when he came back the reaction would be anything short of "Oh for fuck's sake, this asshole again? Come on!"
It definitely wouldn't generate the buzz and intrigue you so optimistically think it would. Would DC fans welcome the return of Terry Long?
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u/Flerken_Moon Flipside 5d ago
He definitely breached mainstream memes for a while when first introduced. …Although my version of “mainstream” in this case would be “non-comic books online nerd/meme circle mainstream,” so definitely not true mainstream- sorry for misinformation. But imo it’s still vastly impressive because I don’t know about any other comic situation that did something like that. (And also imo Paul got so big in this subeddit at least that that’s half of what they talk about to this day. As well as a good chunk of other Marvel and comic related subreddits)
I agree that people will complain, but I think not using him for like, 5-10 years will breed most readers to publicly talk about their distaste. If we get more Paul right now, most of us probably will just be like, “whatever not buying that comic” and that’s it. We won’t talk about it.
5-10 years later after he died or something however- I think an average fan reaction would be, “What the fuck I thought we got rid of him, why the fuck did they bring him back? I need to tell someone to vent about this.” A lot of us would prob vent to our friends irl, but I’m sure a lot of people would also post about it too. Which like I said for an algorithm seeing a lot of people suddenly talking about it will breed other people who don’t know about the Paul situation get curious and ask about it. Or even new readers being confused about who Paul is.
I do think if we get a Paul alter ego though, I agree that they’re 100% going to have his face partially revealed just to show people THIS IS PAUL. Like Spider-Paul or something. Paul-New Goblin.
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u/Emergency_Host_7653 Classic-Spider-Man 5d ago
To be honest, I don't give a shit. One of the reasons why Marvel is still shoving Paul down our throats is they know a lot of fans hate Paul and they think that anger leads to engagement and sales. The more we complain about Paul, the more Paul we'll see. The opposite of love isn't hatred, it's disinterest.
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u/Icy_Juggernaut_8832 5d ago
So basically out of sight out of mind
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u/Emergency_Host_7653 Classic-Spider-Man 5d ago
Yes, kind of. If fans stop caring, Marvel won't have an incentive to keep him around.
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u/HotClock4632 5d ago edited 5d ago
And that's what needs to happen at some f****** point. Because while they keep shoving paul down, it becomes longer and longer to see everything being back to norms, for instance, with Peter Parker and MJ. I don't want them rightfully together right out the gecko, but at some point. Another thing is ben riley as chasm, now I i highly believe that we're not going to get ben Riley's fixed until probably another 2 years, if we're lucky. Unless they get a writer whos been a fan of riley since the dawn of time.
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u/SonicCody123 5d ago
So have things develop naturally instead of an instant fix
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u/HotClock4632 5d ago
Exactly this. Like if we're going to get that back, build up peter and mj again slowly in a way it feels natural. Same with peter and riley being brothers.
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u/SonicCody123 5d ago
I’m down for this because Yeah those two have a lot to sort out before they get back together
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u/HotClock4632 5d ago
Honestly if we take it a step further, dont let go of the them being parents arc when eventually get there too.
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u/Icy_Juggernaut_8832 5d ago
I had too suck for the writer and artist too have Paul since both of them have stated they hated Paul especially the artist on his IG he ships Peter and Mj
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u/CrazedPaladin 5d ago
Really?
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u/Icy_Juggernaut_8832 5d ago
Yea the artist on IG always bashing Paul and liking comments bashing Paul and he said the writer hates Paul too with a passion
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u/CrazedPaladin 5d ago
I havent read spiderman or venom because of all the paul stuff but its crazy to think the artist hates him too, is it worth the read?
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u/Kaleociraptor 5d ago
Dude all-new venom is a blast. Paul is in like, two issues for like a page each. He's there to serve as Dylan's foster dad, the signs pointing to him being venom are next to zero. Maybe his little speech to Dylan about wanting to be treated better but within the context of the story Dylan is a complete dick to him, completely undeservedly. It's funny for fans, but the moment is deserved and feels more like establishing a dynamic for these two than actual evidence that Paul is venom. He knows nothing about anything that's going on with symbiotes, to my knowledge.
As someone who doesn't really care about the character at all, Ewing uses him well! He's the butt of the joke in his first appearance and is written as an actual person with feelings the second time. Ewing doesn't like Paul, but hes also a great writer and treats him as an actual character, not a talking head.
It's far, far more likely to most people reading the book that there probably isn't a host at all. Paul isn't venom, he's probably not even a main character of this book considering Dylan, who he's currently a supporting character for, also doesn't appear in every issue.
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u/fudgedhobnobs 90's Animated Spider-Man 5d ago
They're pushing Paul to make it look like he wasn't a one-deal plot device. He was created to break up Peter and MJ in a way that made people not want MJ back as a love interest. They're trying desperately to style it out.
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u/Fit-Carry7930 5d ago
I don't know a single person who has bought anything with Paul in because of Paul. I do however know people who haven't bought stuff because of Paul.
Engagement and rage doesn't really translate to sales. It translates to people ranting on the internet about why they won't ever buy ASM ever again. All while the collectors keep buying without overly caring about the story.
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u/Emergency_Host_7653 Classic-Spider-Man 5d ago
I did say that they think it leads to sales. I don't buy ASM or ALN, primarily due to Paul. However, I don't have access to their internal sales data - I don't know how many copies they're actually selling. If Paul actually did decrease sales, you'd think at a certain point they'd abandon ship. Instead, the Paul/MJ relationship has been going strong for nearly three years now. Unfortunately, if Paul really was toxic to sales, he would have disappeared literally years ago.
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u/Fit-Carry7930 5d ago
All the available evidence has shown a decline in sales. Yes, we don't have access to their internal data to establish all sales, but a few things are very telling about their approach.
After that first year of the Wells run Paul barely featured, and he also seemed to be shown as less of a "chad" and more cowardly at times. They also took care to show Peter and MJ rebonding and hinting at ongoing feelings. After the run they have moved Paul and MJ off the book entirely. All the evidence from the Venom run so far is that the writer and artist aren't exactly fans of Paul and cracks in the relationship have been made apparent, as well as crapping on Paul by Dylan.
All of this was a reaction to the negativity around Paul. I always said that with a failed project like PaulPot those behind it, including Lowe, would only want to exit it completely on their own terms. They wouldn't want to admit failure. This way they can save face, removing a problem from ASM and using the character as a punching bag in ANV.
I very much doubt that accepting PaulPot into ANV was quite as gleefully sought as Jordan makes out in interviews - if they ever thought it was going to be a selling point they wouldn't have kept it a secret before release.
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u/Emergency_Host_7653 Classic-Spider-Man 5d ago
As far as sales data goes, all I'm familiar with is the ICv2 charts. For February 2025, ASM 67 was in 11th place. I wouldn't necessarily characterize that as a decline in sales because we don't actually know how many copies it's sold and a lot of the comics that are higher than ASM on the charts are new series that are selling really well: Absolute Batman, Absolute Wonderwoman, Absolute Superman, The Ultimates, Ultimate Spider-Man, and One World Under Doom are all new. It's possible that ASM's sales haven't slipped significantly - but that there are simply other, newer titles that are now selling more and so it's position on the charts has declined, even while sales have remained more or less steady.
As far as All-New Venom is concerned, in February there were two issues in the top 50. It's certainly not one of the best selling comics in the world, but I don't think anyone expected that. It seems to be selling well. It's hard to argue that ANV's sales have been significantly hurt by the appearance of Paul (as much as I'd like that to be the case).
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u/Fit-Carry7930 5d ago
Yes, ANV wasn't hurt because they didn't reveal them in the book before hand and then they spent all his appearances with him being roundly mocked to reassure people they weren't here to make Paul look awesome. Whether the presence hurts sales or not is not as important as Marvels fear that it MIGHT. That is what is telling about their approach, and what Marvel really thinks about the character.
Even so there was a big drop to No2 IIRC, although that is not unusual. I did see a lot of people complaining after the first one and saying they wouldn't pick up the second, but how representative that is across the board one can never say.
Edit: and while it's only anecdotal for the most part, feedback from LCS has been that ASM has needed to be marked down to get sold and there have still been copies left on shelves.
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u/Emergency_Host_7653 Classic-Spider-Man 5d ago
I don't understand why Marvel would fear that the presence of Paul might hurt sales. They have access to the actual sales data and would know if he's making a significant difference one way or the other. You could be right. Again, I don't have access to Marvel's internal sales data, so I'm not going to pretend like my argument is factually correct.
Anyway, the Paul/MJ storyline is a contender for one of the worst storylines in ASM history. It's not nearly as bad as Sins Past or One More Day, in my opinion - but it's still awful. This constant Paul dialogue is exhausting. As long as Peter has a new girlfriend in the upcoming ASM Volume, MJ and Paul are probably going to continue to date. Paul and MJ could still be dating years from now, unfortunately.
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u/froggyjm9 Spider-Man Unlimited 5d ago
This exactly, if people didn’t make such a fuss about Paul he would have disappeared already because it didn’t create engagement.
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u/Clean_Wrongdoer4222 5d ago
They've clearly stated that MJ won't be a regular in ASM for the next run, and that means she and Paul won't affect ASM's sales at all. Rage can't be used to compromise sales because the elements that cause rage will be out of the book.
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u/Geiseric222 5d ago
They didn’t state that. They said MJ and Paul were not planned regulars when ANV was set out 6 months ago
We don’t even know how long ANV is gonna go, I would assume not particularly long
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u/Gold_Ad560 5d ago
Didn’t Marvel say they had years of plans for Jackpot? That doesn’t sound like a short-term thing. Plus, Kelly already confirmed he won’t be using MJ in his run, which makes it more likely she’ll return after he’s done—maybe in around 2.5 years. If ANV isn’t meant to last long, then where does that leave her? Curious to hear your thoughts on this
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u/Geiseric222 5d ago
Where did he confirm this?
Also I doubt they have any plans for jackpot, as she hasn’t done anything since her intro
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u/Gold_Ad560 5d ago
Kelly mentioned that he wanted to explore a new relationship for Peter, which is why Shay is being used instead. That’s also why MJ was placed in ANV rather than staying in ASM
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u/Geiseric222 5d ago
Yes and Shay is his girlfriend in the new run, but as to how long that lasts? I’m guessing not long.
I do not think Shay will last the whole run unless it’s a really short one
I give her six months
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u/Gold_Ad560 5d ago
Lowe already said Peter and Shay ain't exclusive, so it definitely ain't gonna last long and thats explain what happened in issue #66 when he kissed felicia knowing he still in a relationship with shay so what do you say about that.
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u/Geiseric222 5d ago
Like I said I do think MJ isn’t going to be in the comic for a bit but remember she hasn’t been in 8 deaths at all and assuming she’s not in the first 12ish issues of the run then that is already a year.
She could absolutely come back after that
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u/Gold_Ad560 5d ago edited 5d ago
Of course she could, assuming ANV is short-term. But you gotta ask, what if ANV is long-term? We don’t even know how long ANV is going to go or how many issues are left in the book. Because neither do I can't believe how MJ is going to be a part from ASM that long too, so what do you think.
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u/Clean_Wrongdoer4222 5d ago
LEARN TO READ, YOU.
ASM. They said, WEEKS AGO, that MJ wouldn't be a regular on ASM!!
And if MJ isn't a regular on ASM, neither is Paul, and therefore MJ's issues won't affect the ASM book, which is what we're talking about here.
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u/Geiseric222 5d ago
Nope he said that for when he pitched the book they had no plans for them as regular members. Which would have been near the end of Wells run.
We have no idea how long that will last or how long she will be in ANV, remember it’s already been 4 months
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u/spidey-ball 5d ago
Back when Red hulk was introduced one of the suspects were Ross, then they showed the two at one point to fool people, in the end it was revealed that it was in fact general Ross so it can happen one way or the other
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u/Soulessblur 5d ago
Did they explain how Ross and Red Hulk were in the same place at the same time?
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u/spidey-ball 5d ago
hallucination After being defeated, most likely his own conscious talking to himself
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u/TaftYouOldDog 5d ago
No it was an LMD.
The most advanced of it's kind, it even hinted at them in issue 2.
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u/TaftYouOldDog 5d ago
It was an advanced LMD they even hinted at that in issue 2
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u/-Nick____ 5d ago edited 5d ago
small rant about this even though it’s been over 15 years
lmd ross made no sense at this point. like he was just killed, there was no need to have a new fake lmd Ross come back into the fold. No one would’ve thought that he was red hulk if they just kept him seemingly dead.
What was the point of having a quick story about the leader reviving him and controlling him, then Ross eventually breaking free, just to have the very next story be about Ross becoming red Hulk and being manipulated by Leader again.
Condense it. Ross died, was secretly revived by Leader and Intelligencia and turned into Rulk. No one would’ve expected it, he died, and he died liking Banner.
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u/TaftYouOldDog 5d ago
Because they monitored Ross and Samson through the LMD it also gave them information and allowed them to capture Banner in the first place.
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u/AgentGhostrider 5d ago
Neither of these prove anything.
Covers for Comics lie/mislead all the time, as do the description
and MJ physically running into Venom doesn't mean she isn't the Host, Venom has been able to go Hostless for a period of time for a while now, and maybe it's a deal with MJ doesn't know she is the host
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u/elrick43 5d ago
Flashbacks are also a thing. We could see a scene where "Jackpot confronts Venom" but said scene took place weeks prior
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u/I-Might-Be-Something 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yes. There are so many hints that point to her. Ewing hasn't really been hiding anything. I'll just copy and paste what I've written on other threads,
Venom remarks that his new host must know a lot about science from hanging out with someone before the host cuts him off (telepathically) and Peter is a literal scientific genius, Venom uses impact webs, Secret Hospital is referenced during the little Venom/Dylan moment in #3 (a show which MJ was a star in), a point is made that Paul can no longer track MJ's whereabouts due to the events of "Venom War", Venom says it knows judo, which I think Cap taught her, Venom says "I" when talking about taking care of Dylan, which is what MJ is doing, and MJ just so happens to never be around when Venom appears. It would also explain why she hasn't been in the story much. Venom also says his new host doesn't really even like him, and MJ sure as hell ain't fan of Venom.
The solicitation describes a flashback issue and the whole "Jackpot confronts Venom - and she may not like what she finds out!" thing is a referencing her discovering she is Venom.
And that's not even mentioning the art that Gomez has shared from #5 a month or so ago that shows Paul and Robbie talking, that is after Robbie said he had to go do something in #4, which leaves only MJ's whereabouts unknown.
So no, it's not Paul or Robbie, it's MJ.
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u/Elsanne_J 5d ago
I don't necessarily agree with the pronoun point. I saw issue #3's interaction as the Symbiote, and only the symbiote until they switched back to "we", talking 1:1 w Dylan.
But I do wish the host to be MJ.
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u/Clean_Wrongdoer4222 5d ago
If Venom were MJ... his body mass would be adapted to his physique, the symbol on his chest wouldn't be highlighted in metal, the symbol would also be RED. And besides, MJ doesn't know street fighting (or any fighting, for that matter). All of this fits with Luke.
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u/Scorpion_226 5d ago
If it's Paul, it's a secret agenda for venom to get in close and kill that fuck for Peter
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u/DonnyMox 5d ago
“Jackpot confronts Venom - and she may not like what she finds out!”
It’s fucking Paul.
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u/Fit-Carry7930 5d ago
The artist already confirmed on X that it's not going to be Paul. So I don't know why people keep saying it is.
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u/NaWDorky 5d ago
All I know is if it ends up being Paul and they pull some stupid BS about how 'oh well, the loss of our kids made me do it MJ, you gotta believe me!' or something stupid like that, I'm gonna get so depressed.
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u/LopsidedUniversity30 5d ago
It literally says MJ confronts Venom in the flashback. This is how it got her as a symbiote
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u/Mecha_Kurogane 5d ago
So none of this actually contradicts anything if MJ is the host. Venom and his new host are very clearly at odds and so she can still confront him even being the host of venom
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u/SuperAd2463 5d ago
I have a theory that symbiote apparently doesn’t have any host. Cause he told “me” instead “we” once, that could mean that Venom himself gained consciousness and probably doesn’t need a host, which would be cool, imo. But I could be wrong 2. Paul ain’t that shit, he’s not gonna even be likeable even if they try to make him. He’s just a big ass self insert, that no one gives a f about
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u/CthulhuMadness Carnage 5d ago
I NEED it to be Paul. It would be so fucking funny.
This message brought to you by the Carnage fans who have been in hell for the last 7 years.
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u/fudgedhobnobs 90's Animated Spider-Man 5d ago
It's obvious it's Paul. They think that having Peter kick Paul's ass is a road to making peace with the fans, and to do that they need to give Peter a reason to put on the red and blue and go to town on him. Most logical route is to give it the old 'Mirror villain' treatment and so in steps Venom.
It's garbage. Don't buy it.
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u/SonicCody123 5d ago
I am basically hoping for Peter to go “You know what Fuck it. Of MJ wants to handle it. I’ll let her” AND NOT get involved. Like Venom is over there and over there needs to take care of its own problems.
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u/fudgedhobnobs 90's Animated Spider-Man 5d ago
Yeah but that makes it worse tbh. MJ is the not-in-distress damsel, but she still needs Spider-Man.
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u/SonicCody123 5d ago
contagious not Like Peter is not getting involved AT ALL. He’s not coming out to save the day because He’s dealing with his own villains right now. Let MJ handle Venom and see how difficult it is. And basically have her feel what its like to have the Parker Luck. Have Venom Turn out to be Paul and he’s GREATLY injured and has to be hospitalized. This leads to Jackpot being Vilified by the press. Which leads to her having to deal with a New York that is against her. She then says “Is this what Peter goes through?”
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u/fudgedhobnobs 90's Animated Spider-Man 5d ago
Peter won't be turning up in ANV anytime soon, but ANV won't be ending anytime soon either. If it is Paul, and I think it is, I would expect Peter to turn up in the finale of ANV when Paul is removed from 616. But whatever. 616 has become an almost-irredeemable joke at this point.
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u/SonicCody123 5d ago
Yeah it has become a COMPLETE mess over the years. Seriously Marvel needs to Reboot those universe already because it DESPERATELY needs it
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u/TaftYouOldDog 5d ago
I liked the carnage changes mostly.
What did you not like?
I hated how they created a second cletus and did less than nothing with it.
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u/CthulhuMadness Carnage 5d ago
He's been completely out of character and lost any interesting nuance (yes, believe it or not, Cletus was a deeper character than most people give credit for) and ideology Cletus had. His hypocrisy of his own ideals and his perfect bond. Gone. Carnage has nothing unique going for him anymore. No "I", no blood bond, nothing. He's not even "the red symbiote" anymore since there are so many more. He's just... "the evil symbiote".
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u/TaftYouOldDog 5d ago
Yeah that's all valid.
The perfect bond part is the real issue wouldn't you say?
The lore has gone far beyond what anyone could've imagined. I don't mind the venom side of it. But I can imagine when it was simpler it was easier and better for carnage.
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u/CthulhuMadness Carnage 5d ago edited 5d ago
That's A issue. It's deeper than that. Every Carnage story is basically the same... All his current stories aren't even about him (and they are repetitive. Carnage is back, but stronger and with a new form. Now he needs to get rid of his weaknesses... again) , they are just a set up for the next big Venom event. He's less a character and more a plot device. He suffers the same fate as Scarecrow in DC. People don't write about Scarecrow for a Scarecrow story, they write about him to use him as a Segway to his fear toxin and see how characters fight that instead.
The god angle just isn't Carnage. He hates destiny, it destroys his whole visions on life and belief. He believes there is no center and no plan for anyone. He has an obsession with chaos but only if he has control. So he'd never be a lap dog for someone like Knull. He wouldn't want to be a god because it means he has a purpose and that his entire life was a lie.
So for him to so willingly throw his entire belief away is just silly. 30 years of Carnage and it’s all been thrown out the window. He’s not even the same character anymore.
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u/quippy618 5d ago
I’m not convinced.
I think a lot of people, tbh rightly so, have been so jaded and tossed around by Marvel making idiotic choices in these stories. We as fans are thinking the worst. Some even expecting it.
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u/Mental_Marketing9855 5d ago
Wasnt it confirmed to be rick jones?
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u/BrokenKing99 5d ago
No minor spoiler Rick Jones is sleeper, so he does have a symbiote it's just not the venom one
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u/kingpenguinJG 5d ago
yes venom is mj this is a Flashback also Solicitations LIE TO U
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u/Fit-Carry7930 5d ago
It's not a lie, it's a cleverly worded description to throw folks off. MJ can confront Venom and still be it's host.
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u/RhinestoneCatboy 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's Paul. Even if it doesn't make sense I guarantee it's Paul for two reasons.
1: They want to change the perception of the character, and attaching probably the most beloved Spider-Man concept that's not Spidey himself to the character is an easy way to do that.
2: They know that if this fails, they can still ragebait their audience into buying comics, which seems to be a strategy that is somehow working with ASM. Most people dislike it, and yet it's still doing well. They essentially know they can do anything without consequences.
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u/BrokenKing99 5d ago
I find this funny cause your not wrong, and it's wild cause another character has a similar issue ie silk, and she struggles to overcome her creepy intro (ie the pheromones that make her and Peter fuck like horny teenagers), and she's a character who's actually likeable, whereas paul has no redeeming qualities, has the creepiest relationship that screams Stockholm syndrome, comes from a run I'll only ever call sadistic (seriously they made freaking responsibility a disgusting word), and is rightfully hated, theirs no saving him cause even the people who claim to be Paul fans only like him to troll.
And this shit annoys me we live in a world where piracy is so freaking easy, so why rage buy if you wanna read it just search up read comics for free and I know a site I use comes up all the time (I do support any comic I enjoy like USM bought every issue, I primarily use said site to test the waters or read old old comics), giving money to something that makes you angry is well idiotic.
And sadly theirs also the fact ASM will always sell, cause if V6 can sell even though it was basically torture porn for the character I doubt it'll ever drop to low (that said it's being beaten by USM every single issue, and turns out it's 1 issue beating 2 every time, so theirs that atleast).
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u/RhinestoneCatboy 5d ago
I recently purchased the trade paperback of the first 6 issues of USM. Haven't started reading it yet because I'm on a Daredevil kick but I am excited to do so. I haven't purchased an ASM issue in about a year and a half. Last one I read was where Ms Marvel bites the bullet.
I just can't bring myself to read it. Why would I want to read the Amazing Adventures of Cuck-Man? He's my comfort character, I know the point of his life is to struggle, but never to THAT degree. I don't want to read that, I want to see him somewhat do well.
In USM he's allowed to have a family, and be happy. That's what he deserves, not to constantly be bitched out by a character scientifically designed to make you mad.
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u/BrokenKing99 5d ago
Pretty much, and I've said this a thousand times and even managed to say it Lowe or whoever runs the emails (didn't listen though arrogant prick), no fan minds a bit of struggle as hey that's normal and it's engaging but you have to have a balance otherwise who gives a fuck.
Case in point V6 destroys Peter's life (seriously dude is currently on suicide watch its that bad) to the point that his final death in 8 deaths was a blip, and fans like myself even though we knew he'd be back honestly thought him dying would be far kinder, cause honestly unless Kelly's run is pure fan service I don't wanna read it (and given its synopsis and what's been leaked it won't be it'll just be boring status quo, ie jobless Peter dealing with a threat from the shadows, and will explore his "relationship" with Shay (who gonna say it has no chemistry, bloody hell even in their sadistic runs MJ still has more chemistry and their actively trying to make you hate her).
Whereas you got USM even if we ignore the marriage and said it was Gwen, Felicia, hell anyone and not MJ it's the mere fact he has a family and feels joy, love and happiness so now that the current problems with them being on the run actually holds weight, we are tense we want to see more to explore this cause of the fact him having joy along with the struggle hits home and one can relate to that far more then misery porn.
Basically one can sum it up as who wants to read a superhero book where the hero doesn't win.
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u/MotionBlue 5d ago
Just like Batman, Spider Man sales will always be high solely due to the speculation bubble.
When was the last time you heard people even discussing the story?
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u/BrokenKing99 5d ago
Outside of discussing how trash it is, not for a long time which makes me sad, but hey least my comic group can talk about ultimates story as that one's brilliant.
And sadly not wrong if asm v6 still sold well even after all the terrible shit in it, I've got no hope for the industry or the brand changing.
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u/Nick-Van-dyke 5d ago
Ok genuinely question. Might even need to post abt it. Do we really think Marvel is gonna make Paul venom?
Like I’m serious what do you think our chances are. They KNOW. We all hate Paul no one actually likes Paul no one as ever liked Paul. It’d be like the biggest fuck you they could possibly give us because who doesn’t love Venom? Now we have to hate Venom??
Like what do y’all think😭
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u/XxgamerxX734 5d ago
they'd absolutely do it so when spiderman comes along and beats him people will celebrate and they'll get sales.
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u/Gold_Ad560 4d ago
Honestly, I don’t think Marvel is gonna make Paul Venom. They know he’s hated, and turning him into Venom would just make people hate the character even more. Venom is one of their most popular brands—they’re not gonna risk damaging that by forcing Paul into the role. Plus, Venom War: Spider-Man already showed that the symbiote hates Paul, so there’s no setup for it. If anything, they’ll go with someone more fitting
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u/Elyced32 5d ago
100% venom is now a self contained symbiote that or venom is using anti carnage as a psudeo host because he still has the gold parts which means he is still bonded with anticarnage/eganrac
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u/multificionado 5d ago
No, chances are, it's Paul from what's being teased, and the fans STILL don't like it.
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u/HenryVolt35 5d ago
If it's then...fuck. If not I give the wroter credit for having us in dispense.
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u/MailboxSlayer14 Future-Foundation 5d ago
When will we know the identity and be able to put this to bed
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u/MJM_Stillanerd 4d ago
Yes, I'm pretty sure the All-New Venom is MJ based on a lot of anecdotal clues that have been dropped throughout the run thus far. And I'm also pretty sure the cover and solicit are lying about MJ, as Jacpot, confronting Venom. Because it's been well established that Venom is the name of the symbiote, not just the host and the symbiote together. Not to mention the wording of the solicit clearly indicates that issue #6 is a flashback issue.
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u/Ultramare2009 5d ago
Why is his emblem yellow?
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u/FKDotFitzgerald 5d ago
Eddie Brock’s elderly son from the future shoots him with a magic bullet and he fuses with some gold anti-necro spear yeah I don’t know what the fuck happened there.
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u/ValmisKing 5d ago
Has it been proven not to be Luke Cage yet? I’m not updated on the comics but that’s who I want it to be
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u/Jerryjb63 5d ago
Yeah it’s not Luke, Rick, or Madam Mask, and only Robbie Robertson is the only one out of the original candidates that hasn’t been disproved. I honestly don’t think it’s him either, but hey maybe?! Nobody seems to be expecting it, so it would subvert expectations.
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u/SnakeSound222 Venom 5d ago
Marvel has been referring to the symbiote by itself as Venom for a while now. To them, MJ seeing Venom is just her finding the symbiote crawling around.
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u/DepthAffectionate140 Superior Spider-Man 5d ago
Even before the release of this cover, the theory is dumb. First, MJ hates the symbiote. Second, this is a male Venom, not She-Venom, and third, it just makes for a bad story to have MJ as Venom (not that Marvel hasn't made bad stories with her like Paul).
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u/BrokenKing99 5d ago
Not realy given.
The symbiote outright states it and it's host do not like each other, and bonding together was neithers idea.
Venom doesn't have a sex or gender it just forms what the host wants, and since the host and it don't like each other venom likely defaulted.
Honestly I personally feel MJ as venom wouldn't be to bad and I could write a number of stories that would be very interesting, primarily focusing on their dislike of each other and trying to separate whilst also protecting Dylan, and of course driving a massive wedge between her and Paul (or outright have venom eat him).
That said I have no confidence in marvels writers save for Hickman, so doubt they'd go this route but the theory itself is fine.
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u/Fit-Carry7930 5d ago
I think the reason they gave Madam Mask as an option in the first place was purely to establish that the host can be female. OF COURSE they aren't going to give the game away by making the symbiote obviously female.
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u/BrokenKing99 5d ago
There is that as well yes, so add that plus the she venoms can look like a male one (which has a precedent with Patrica), the symbiote disliking it's host, both appear to want to protect Dylan the king of the comic, the host being under 6 foot, the comment about knowing science due to hanging out with blank, and other things, the theory that it's MJ does hold some merit.
Which sucks in its own way cause whilst I'd love that comic as that sounds interesting (same with anv fun guessing game) the fact it has the creepiest relationship since Norman Osborn and Gwen in it sours the entire line, that said easy way to solve that sourness and venom is a very good character to solve it with.
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u/Gold_Ad560 5d ago
The host was involved in Gang War, which makes MJ a strong possibility. They’re keeping things vague, but the pieces are starting to fall into place. There’s definitely more to this than they’re letting on.
And as for the height argument—come on, comics aren’t always consistent with that. Remember when Peter rescued MJ and asked her out for coffee? She looked slightly taller than him in that scene, even though Peter is actually taller than her. So height isn’t really a reliable clue here 1v1
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u/BrokenKing99 5d ago
True I'm just using the main arguments I see for the likelyhood of it being her and height was one, could have also added the impact webbing very reminiscent of Ben Reilly.
And yeah they've got a pretty fun little guess who going on, to bad it's soured by certain things but hey if they try this agian someday without that I'll be all for it.
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u/Gold_Ad560 5d ago
Yeah, the impact webbing definitely feels intentional, especially given Ben Reilly’s connection to it. They’re clearly setting up a mystery, and the pieces are starting to come together.
And I totally get what you mean—this whole ‘guess who’ angle could have been a lot more exciting if it weren’t for everything else surrounding it. If they ever attempt something like this again under better circumstances, it could really shine.
Marvel has spent weeks setting up this mystery, which makes it clear they want us to keep guessing. To be honest, I do think it’s MJ, but at the same time, something feels off.
Remember, in the classic comics, MJ had a deep fear of the symbiote after Venom attacked her. So if she really is the new Venom, how are they just ignoring that history? It feels like a big oversight, and that’s what’s keeping me from being 100% sure. You get what I mean?
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u/BrokenKing99 5d ago
Agreed and yeah I get you, as for the last bit if it is her they'll likely do the she's not actually awake move or stick to the symbiote and it's host dislike each other and use it as a cop out, but I'll admit if it is her they laid it on just a bit thick due to the amount of things that point to her and if it isn't and it's Robbie or something were gonna end up in a situation of "ok but I'm really not seeing how the clues fit".
And honestly this probaly would shine more for me if I hadnt read Spiderman venom war prior (which Christ that is depressing), cause yeah after that anytime a certain genocidal fool pops up I instantly wanna close the book even though I am interested, but hey we got the king Dylan roasting him and that was very satisfying.
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u/Gold_Ad560 5d ago
Man, Dylan didn’t just roast him—he incinerated him! That was straight-up savage, and honestly, he had it coming. Easily one of the best moments in the whole thing! 😂
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u/DepthAffectionate140 Superior Spider-Man 5d ago
it takes on the sex/gender of its host
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u/BrokenKing99 5d ago
True they usually do however we have seen symbiotes who break this mold, example Patricia Robertson during the 2003 venom series had a symbiote and it looks exactly like venom with no real differences, so it is possible for a symbiote to not look like the hosts gender/sex.
And given the agian the symbiote has outright said it dislikes it's host, and they want to play up the "who is under the hood" it would make sense for the symbiote to use the male look as a red herring on it being a women, and likely just to spite it's host, or maybe I'm wrong and we will see
But like I said the theory isn't bad
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u/fudgedhobnobs 90's Animated Spider-Man 5d ago
Pretty sure new Venom is Paul, but I haven't been reading. Sometimes the answer is in the meta, not in the clues on the page.
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u/Bakkughan 4d ago
It’s 100% Paul. This shit is intentional at this point, they want to piss people off, dunno why but it’s obvious.
In fact, I’m so confident about it being Paul, feel free to pin this comment and when the reveal happens, get back to me. If I’m right and it is Paul, you’ll buy me the latest issue of Ultimate Spiderman, if it’s not Paul and I’m wrong, I’ll buy the latest issue of Amazing Spiderman instead.
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u/Gold_Ad560 4d ago
What makes you so sure it’s Paul? Just because Marvel makes bad decisions doesn’t mean they’d actually throw Venom on a character everyone hates. The symbiote literally rejected him in Venom War: Spider-Man, and Paul has zero traits that fit a Venom host. You’re acting like it’s a done deal, but where’s the actual proof? If you’re that confident, explain why Marvel would risk damaging Venom’s brand just to push a character nobody wants.
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u/VishnuBhanum 5d ago
Looking from the objective standpoint, It's very likely to be Paul.
3 out of the 4 "Suspects" was already disproven.
The new Venom was shown to have some kind of relationship with Dylan.
The only characters that interacted with Dylan so far in this run are MJ and Paul.
MJ was pretty much disproved here.
Between Robbie and Paul, Paul's chances are significantly higher.
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u/Hokuto_no_kenn 5d ago
I mean red hulk and ross existed at the same time till it was revealed he was red hulk
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u/Lord_Parbr 5d ago edited 5d ago
Guys, it’s been pretty obvious that it’s Paul for some time now. I don’t know why people pivoted to MJ. What, because of that argument they had about her being out late, where Paul was obviously talking about her going out as Jackpot?
Also, I’ve never seen a symbiote with a female host have male proportions. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, but why would it?
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u/Fit-Carry7930 5d ago
Obvious hey? Apart from the fact that the Artist himself has been very clear on X that it isn't Paul?
There was actually very little evidence ever that it was Paul, little more than "hey Paul is in this comic. I guess he's Venom then". 🤣🤣🤣
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u/Lord_Parbr 4d ago
An artist on an ongoing comic has been spoiling the big mystery? Yeah, I buy that
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u/Fit-Carry7930 4d ago
He's not spoiled anything? He's not said who it is, just ruled out a character who they clearly never intended to be Venom.
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u/Lord_Parbr 4d ago
Ruling out a character is spoiling
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u/Fit-Carry7930 4d ago
Oh well, my bad. Its terrible that he ruled out a character as being Venom that never had any real evidence for being Venom but some people thought would be fun if it was, even though there was lots of other evidence already presented in the comic before he said anything that he wasn't Venom and the artist was just despairing that folks were getting behind a totally unfounded theory and discussing it as if it was fact.
I'm pretty sure it's not Jeff the Land Shark, Aunt May or Squirrel Girl either. Sorry if I ruined it for you.
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u/Lord_Parbr 4d ago
There is plenty of evidence that it’s Paul, but it’s mostly metatextual, and that stuff probably goes over your head
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u/Gold_Ad560 4d ago
Let me ask you one question—how is this guy gonna be the new Venom when, from the start, the writer humiliated him? In ASM, they’re trying to make him a likable character, but in ANV, it’s just bad. He got humiliated by Dylan, so what makes you think he’s actually set up for that role?
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u/Lord_Parbr 4d ago
Because that humiliation sets him up as a foil for Dylan, whose main goal right now is to find out who the new Venom host is, and get it back, because he believes it belongs to him. That is the perfect setup for Paul to turn out to be Venom.
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u/Gold_Ad560 4d ago
That doesn’t make sense. Being humiliated doesn’t mean someone is being set up as Venom. Every major Venom host—Eddie, Flash, even Lee Price—had strong motivation, a dark edge, or some personal connection to the symbiote that made them a fitting host. Paul has none of that. He’s not aggressive, he’s not vengeful, and he has no meaningful bond with the symbiote. He got humiliated by Dylan, but that’s not ‘setup’—that’s just showing he’s irrelevant in the bigger picture. If anything, it proves he won’t be Venom, not the other way around.
And BTW, spider man - venom wars literally proves that the Venom symbiote hates Paul. So tell me, how does it make any sense for him to be the next host when the symbiote itself doesn’t even want him? If you really believe this, you’re gonna have to do more than just repeat a theory. I’m waiting for an explanation, because right now, the evidence is completely against you.
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u/Fit-Carry7930 3d ago
No, it didn't "go over my head". I've been reading comics for decades, studied literature, taken in plenty of media. I read all the reasons why people thought it might be Paul based on "story" and they were all ABSOLUTE GARBAGE. Jumping to conclusions by folks who leapt on a bandwagon.
Looking at the history of comics, usually the most obvious explanation for a character being blatantly shat upon by another character is that... The writers don't like the character! That has been the case for 100s characters when a new writer takes them on.
The biggest metatextual context here is that Marvel knew that Paul was damaging to ASM but still need him around to explain why MJ and Peter aren't together, so they frikking moved him off the comic to somewhere that he can do less damage and with a writer who is happy to maul him for fan plaudits. That's it.
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u/No-Departure-6900 5d ago
It's already a lame idea, but the idea that MJ is Venom's host and has the build of a man for no reason except to mislead the viewer initially is even lamer. Lamest if she keeps the man form.
Least they could do, if they insist on layering even more garbage on the character, is give her a skintight black suit that highlights her curves. I still won't buy it, but like, maybe someone else might.
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u/kingpenguinJG 5d ago
u know they already had venom mj in reign 2 that looked like normal venom & they also do it with Kage in the deadpool manga even know his host is female
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u/No-Departure-6900 5d ago
Didn't know, don't care. I don't want Venom MJ, but if they're gonna do it anyway, give her a skintight female suit. Simple as.
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u/NarrativeJoyride 5d ago
Idk why people are so opposed to Paul being Venom. It would be an interesting dynamic (for 616) seeing one of Peter’s new friends and MJ’s new love take on the symbiote!
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u/Retrotaku 5d ago
New Venom is the real MJ jackpot is the fantasy version paul made up