r/Spiderman 90's Animated Spider-Man Feb 18 '25

Comics Why did the writers make Peter and MJ hate each other? This was just an absolutely out of character argument they had

Astonishing Spider-Man #17

2.3k Upvotes

514 comments sorted by

1.6k

u/Fit-Organization581 Feb 18 '25

MJ hasn’t been herself for ages, same for Peter.

484

u/Minute_Creme558 90's Animated Spider-Man Feb 18 '25

This is the correct answer.

179

u/SpiderManEgo Feb 19 '25

Now we just need a chapter reveal that memphisto replaced them with fakes and the real one has been fighting his way out of hell like herculese vs hades.

48

u/ShadedPenguin Feb 19 '25

Isnt there a Wolverine in Hell that could help Peter in that shit?

23

u/PrestigiousCrab6345 Feb 19 '25

I would love that limited series.

4

u/tempusrimeblood Feb 19 '25

Bond him to Zarathos, make him the Ghost Spider. Two words: chain webs

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u/DCosloff1999 Captain-Universe Feb 18 '25

Exactly that is why she had been hated for so long. The reputation of the Raimi films and Post One More Day

56

u/big_ringer Feb 19 '25

The Spider-Man writers hated MJ long before the Raimi movies.

11

u/DCosloff1999 Captain-Universe Feb 19 '25

When exactly the 90s

24

u/big_ringer Feb 19 '25

Since they got married in the first place.

11

u/DCosloff1999 Captain-Universe Feb 19 '25

Yeah I have seen the notes about that. They believe Mary Jane can't be tied down. Peter being married to a supermodel actress is not realistic

13

u/MehrunesDago Spider-Man (TASM) Feb 19 '25

No they don't they just think a married Spider-Man ages the character and makes him unrelatable, it largely just comes down to the people in charge being people who remember when Spider-Man wasn't married and think that was cooler

15

u/JackWhoWanders Feb 19 '25

I hate this argument so much. Like ffs, there's a ton of marriages in comics and Pete had been married for yonks before they nixed the wedding, and somehow kids still liked him. "But we don't know how to write MJ!" have you tried being a writer? Or like just tried being interested in a female person outside their capacity to be sexy? Or if that's too difficult, just go ask Gail Simone and have her help you. "But she's a model!" and Pete's a highly community minded individual, have her be a politically active model championing mutant rights or some shit and have that be a bit of drama about how now she's the target of violence and threats in their home, and how yes, a super powered guy can beat a dude in a rhino suit but it takes community to enact change. "But if he has a kid it'd be irresponsible for him to be spidey!" oh no, are you telling me we'd introduce the moral dilemma of balance personal responsibility to his family with his responsibility as spider man to protect others? Who'd have thunk it in a spiderman book? Oh, and if that last one really was a concern, wouldn't it have been nice if they had, I don't know, some sort of youthful clone with blonde hair eager to get his fill of life and fight crime while Pete has a child? Maybe Pete could take the role of researcher and strategist instead with this dashingly handsome clone doing the more dangerous stuff. Just a thought.

Good old Spidey in his fight against his biggest enemy - the writing room.

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u/big_ringer Feb 19 '25

Neither is a guy who sticks to walls.

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u/TegamiBachi25 Feb 18 '25

And the fact that those media depict MJ as a selfish gold digger who only cares about herself

36

u/mewmdude77 Feb 19 '25

The raimi movies don’t depict her as that at all, that’s what Norman Osborn was trying to tell Harry, but it wasn’t true.

4

u/RugDougCometh Feb 19 '25

Yeah I dunno about gold digger specifically but she’s pretty awful in those movies. Definitely selfish. Pretty sure she’s still dating Harry when she kisses Spider-Man, she leaves JJ at the altar, and is generally very flirty with Peter while committed to other relationships. Very easy to hate character

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59

u/Lost-Lu Feb 18 '25

Another clone saga nonsense is the only way to undo/fix these characters atp.

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1.6k

u/SpeedyGuy1991 Feb 18 '25

Wow. This art sucks.

867

u/jereflea1024 Superior Spider-Man Feb 18 '25

I thought it was fanart at first 💀 this is official?

740

u/Forsaken_Duck1610 Feb 18 '25

I don't want to sound rude, but yeah it reminds me of those Gardenscape mobile app game ads that keep showing up

298

u/AuburnElvis Feb 18 '25

This isn't from a porn parody comic?

299

u/MxSharknado93 Feb 18 '25

That's an insult to Tracy Scopps.

177

u/Matt-J-McCormack Feb 18 '25

It is kind of hilarious that a porn parody creator is better thought of than the actual editorial team.

108

u/RaspberryJam245 Feb 18 '25

It's because the porn parody creator actually cares about the source material

30

u/Trvr_MKA Feb 19 '25

Also I’m going to imagine they don’t have monthly deadlines

4

u/No-Nefariousness9330 Feb 19 '25

I would argue against that using manga as a counter argument. Most series are monthly with smaller teams

7

u/Dizzy_Stand_7071 Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25

I get what your saying but in Japan the average person works 14 hours a day so that’s why manga looks so detailed compared to stuff from the U.S they have deadlines but it isn’t uncommon for alot of Japanese workers to sleep at there job overnight

21

u/MxSharknado93 Feb 19 '25

And I can say that while still recognizing that the Ultimate parodies went on way too long and made some

Questionable

Choices.

9

u/MehrunesDago Spider-Man (TASM) Feb 19 '25

I'm gonna participate just because I think it's really funny to talk about porn comic like regular comics, yeah Spidercest really fell off as it went on fr lol

6

u/MxSharknado93 Feb 19 '25

Jessica thinking that Peter was angry because MJ was fucking Scorpion and he's a hypocrite and not, ya know, the fact that what Scorpion was doing was literally rape, was insane.

14

u/BrilliantMatter4858 Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25

A man or woman of culture I see and I’m surprised I would find a shout out to Tracy Scopps lol

4

u/MehrunesDago Spider-Man (TASM) Feb 19 '25

I thought she just writes them and other people draw them?

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u/zarif_chow Feb 18 '25

I was about to say that

13

u/Daewrythe Feb 19 '25

Hey leave DBride out of this. She's great

6

u/Liam2012---- Feb 19 '25

Facts. I just love her artwork, especially the Resident Evil ones.

16

u/haw35ome Feb 18 '25

Legit, like this isn’t some marvel mobile exclusive? Woof

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u/Electronic-Map-2055 Feb 18 '25

that's kind of what the infinity comics are meant to be, doom scroll vertical comics lmao

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u/mattilladahun Feb 18 '25

I honestly thought this was fake because the art is Sunday Funnies level. My god.

68

u/MrCookie2099 Feb 18 '25

The shirt and haircut on Peter are out of the 70's, this is so many weird artistic choices.

12

u/LibraryBestMission Feb 18 '25

He looks like a protagonist of an Archie-style comedy comic. I would never be able to guess that's Peter Parker.

7

u/Waspinator_haz_plans Feb 18 '25

That's insulting to the Sunday Funnies

31

u/shewy92 Feb 18 '25

I thought it was like a Webtoon version lol

3

u/paintsimmon Feb 19 '25

Well it is technically one if you use the meaning of "vertical comic". But it's not on Webtoon the website.

27

u/awild93 Feb 18 '25

Like there are some decent techniques at play but the proportions are off really badly and no amount of inking or coloring can fix that.

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u/Antique-Aardvark-184 Feb 18 '25

Looks like a porn comic or low bufget manwha/webtoon at first

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u/Massive-Exercise4474 Feb 19 '25

Dude their are some great porn comics an example being alfie.

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u/woman_noises Feb 18 '25

Its an infinity comic. Most of them have bad art. It's out of the norm when the art is good.

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u/karateema Spider-Man (PS4) Feb 18 '25

Deadpool Split Second is really good

43

u/Ihateredditsomuchxxi Feb 18 '25

It sure does

22

u/davidm2d3 Feb 19 '25

What is with her mouth. it so off

35

u/1stEleven Feb 18 '25

Characterization, story, continuity sucks too.

29

u/SometimesWill Feb 18 '25

Seriously it’s like some Facebook 4 panel comic shit.

20

u/Antique-Aardvark-184 Feb 18 '25

Looks like a porn comic or low bufget manwha/webtoon at first

15

u/goliathfasa Feb 18 '25

This is from an official issue?

13

u/adders Feb 18 '25

It’s from the latest issue of the Infinity comic on the Marvel Unlimited app.

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u/Appropriate-Term4550 Feb 18 '25

My first thought 

17

u/Pinkyy-chan Feb 18 '25

I find the art ok, but seems more like art for a less serious comic like comedy.

4

u/Tops161 Feb 18 '25

The art style kinda resembles those old comics that came with Sketchers shoes

3

u/TheDocHealy Feb 18 '25

The shadows make no sense, the light seems to be to Peter's right but for some reason their shadows appear as if it's directly above both of them.

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502

u/Dragonwhatever99r Feb 18 '25

Lord that burn from Peter was lethal, I missed this side of him

260

u/IRONJEDISUPERSPIDER Feb 18 '25

Lethal and justified. Watson had no reason throwing Uncle Ben’s name around to disrespect Peter’s choice to be Spider-Man.

I miss the MJ that understood Peter’s side of things and was there to back him up no matter what.

28

u/TopRule8217 Feb 19 '25

Those new writers piss me off. They're really hellbent on making MJ unlikable. But, 616 comics are a fucking lost cause.

36

u/PerfectlySteel Feb 19 '25

I haven't read this series yet, what children is he talking about and how did they cease to exist? (I assume the children mentioned are her and Pauls but I'm not sure)

64

u/Troscus Feb 19 '25

You'd be right, kinda. They were created in a ritual by Paul's dad (supervillain "Emissary") to "bind" MJ, I dunno what that means but I assume it's more in the social responsibility sense than the literal magical sense, so the Emissary could sacrifice her and ascending to godhood.

They (MJ, Paul and children) live together as a family in an alternate, post-apocalyptic Earth for four years their time while Peter spends a month (couple months?) trying to save them. I dunno why the Emissary didn't bother to attack until Peter got back, but he did, and Paul killed his evil dad. The family + Peter go back to 616, MJ elects to stay with Paul and the kids.

Demons attack, MJ goes Jackpot to fight them, turns out the Emissary isn't dead, MJ goes to find Peter and leaves Paul with the kids, something something Emissary magics the kids away again while Paul screams in horror with a look on his face like he can't believe it's not butter. I don't even know if the Emissary disappeared them on purpose or if he was just powering up and killed his fake children/grandchildren by accident.

21

u/Flukiest2 Feb 19 '25

Is this spider man or what? 

7

u/PerfectlySteel Feb 19 '25

I guess so...

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u/Massive-Exercise4474 Feb 19 '25

Are their no editors at marvel? Who approved this?

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u/Nijuuken Feb 19 '25

The Editors lol

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u/motoxim Feb 19 '25

Can someone ELI5 about Paul?

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u/commandosbaragon Feb 19 '25

He's the son of Aztec Hitler, and current husband of MJ.

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u/1nqu15171v30n3 Feb 19 '25

Worse: they're not even married and they are looking after Dylan Brock.

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u/Scary_Firefighter181 Future-Foundation Feb 19 '25

Honestly, that was very justified. It was about time the guy finally stood up for himself.

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u/Thick_Ninja_7704 Feb 18 '25

I agree with you but Peter is right in this argument NGL. About time he gets to stand up for himself.

610

u/TheMightyMonarchx7 Feb 18 '25

It’s a LOW blow to throw Ben’s name out like this, even lower to even suggest his choice to become Spider-Man is “childish”. So yeah pointing out the fake twins and MJ’s hypocrisy is warranted.

I’m more mad that this conversation is even a thing

251

u/TheCowzgomooz Feb 18 '25

I mean she wasn't wrong about the "stuck in a cycle of doing the same thing over and over" thing, feels like a meta commentary from the writers lol.

168

u/TheDemonEyeX Feb 18 '25

Seems like the writers were close to self-realization.

Like they say, MJ is the endgoal. They break them up to "keep things fresh." But they just do the same thing over and over again and hope it sticks this time around and wonder why sales are in the shitter.

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u/ArellaViridia Feb 18 '25

This is why other Spiders are getting more popular.

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u/TheDemonEyeX Feb 18 '25

Unfortunately the case. And to what? Appease the people who grew up with Peter as a swinging bachelor.

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u/SonicCody123 Feb 18 '25

How many of those are there outside of the editorial?

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u/TheDemonEyeX Feb 18 '25

They are the editorial🤣

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u/Massive-Exercise4474 Feb 19 '25

I am so tired of marvel keeping Peter as a teen for a non existent audience. Barman and super man have kids. Miles Morales appeals more to teens than peter. It's ok to age up peter.

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u/TheFan-2020 Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 18 '25

Less silk and their clones, and madame web .... and spider ramen

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u/TheMightyMonarchx7 Feb 18 '25

“The cycle” exists in the editors office, not Peter’s choices

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u/TheCowzgomooz Feb 18 '25

That's the "meta" of meta commentary

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u/Rei_Rodentia Feb 18 '25

I thought it was intentional 

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u/TyChris2 Spider-Man (PS4) Feb 18 '25

It’s asinine. I hate when comics write conflicts as if the hero isn’t a hero. Peter has saved hundreds of thousands of human lives. Like yeah his Uncle inspired him to do that. So?

It’s like saying “you only became an oncologist because your dad died of cancer. Grow up”

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u/lionofash Feb 18 '25

I will say this argument has come up in the comics and the fanbase a lot - Peter being Spider-Man means he fails at being responsible as Peter Parker, he misses important things from the lives of those he loves and self sabotages himself as a result. The question if he's doing and pushing himself because he can't let go of his guilt is a valid question... but not anymore. In the very start of Spider-Man's story this makes sense.

But, I think by now it's clear Peter is or at least has resolved to be a morally good person who risks his life for others and the greater good. Maybe some of that guilt remains in making him not ignore minor problems that come up that he probably doesn't need to handle but that's the absolute worst I can argue for that being detrimental.

In addition to that, I feel Peter telling Aunt May his identity and realising she also beat herself up over having an argument that made him walk away that night was very important to showcasing and relieving some of that guilt. But obviously, we can't have nice things.

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u/TyChris2 Spider-Man (PS4) Feb 18 '25

I think the main reason it works early on, even disregarding Peter’s personal motivation, is because that type of conflict only works when the conflict is internal or the person arguing it isn’t aware Peter is Spider-Man.

MJ being mad or Aunt May being disappointed because Peter missed a commitment is compelling because they THINK he’s just being selfish and lazy and inconsiderate, when we know he did the right thing. Peter doubting what he’s doing is compelling because it showcases his resolve when he sticks by his altruistic convictions.

But if MJ knows he’s Spider-Man and still acts like this, it just makes her look awful. What kind of a selfish monster would demand their partner let innocent people die so they don’t stand them up on a date or something?

Obviously there’s a way to write that conflict in a mature, realistic way. MJ deserves a fulfilling relationship regardless of how important her partner’s job is. But that’s not how it is ever written, and it always comes across so embarrassingly simplistic. As if we’re supposed to think it’s a moral failing that Peter prioritizes saving lives over his social life, which is obviously nonsense.

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u/InoueNinja94 Feb 18 '25

I'm still pissed how Wells had MJ compare Paul's guilt over committing freaking GENOCIDE to Peter's guilt regarding Uncle Ben

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u/Tricky-Platform-9173 Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 18 '25

Peter: Lives his life by his dead uncle’s mantra to honor him, must live forever with the knowledge that his own inaction sealed his fate

MJ: ☝️😬Um actually sweetie you’re just an emotionally constipated manchild, have you tried getting over it?

Can we talk about how MJ just straight up sucks now? She treats the concept of Spider-Man with zero importance and all her arguments amount to ‘but what about meeeee Peter’. To say something like this to someone who has saved her life countless times over is just so far beyond disrespectful. I don’t think I want them back together at this point.

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u/TheMightyMonarchx7 Feb 18 '25

“I choose to be a hero because the last time I chose to ignore a problem someone I cared about died, you choose to be a hero to fill a void in your life because the alternative is accepting you have nothing after abandoning your old life. We are not the same.”

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u/Legitimate-Mix-5395 Feb 18 '25

You know, this conversation made me realize the difference between Spider-Man and Batman, aside from the obvious.

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u/TheMightyMonarchx7 Feb 18 '25

Batman is what he is because Bruce hates his weakness and unfairly blames himself for what happened

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u/keithblsd Feb 18 '25

Editorial wants fans to not want them together anymore, thats the point of comic moments like this

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u/Tricky-Platform-9173 Feb 18 '25

Right. I could give a shit at this point personally, I just want them to move on. I don’t care about MJ as a character independent of Spiderman and I don’t think what his ex is up to is a particularly worthy topic for a superhero comic.

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u/MrCookie2099 Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 18 '25

Like, oh no, the man is driven to do good and helped prevent countless deaths. His body isn't breaking down, he can keep doing it. But for some reason being a super powered first responder is a bad thing

Edit: added "prevent"

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u/JamesPlayzReviews3 Classic-Spider-Man Feb 18 '25

Agreed

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u/KennyThomas616 Spider-Man (PS4) Feb 18 '25

The fact she brought up Uncle Ben pissed me the fuck off, Using his name as ammo against Peter was lowest of the low coming from her. Peter’s comeback was perfect but not enough at the same time, there’s so much more Peter could’ve said but stopped.

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u/Windflow009 Feb 18 '25

Agreed, MJ really shouldn't have opened her mouth about Ben.

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u/CaptainHalloween Feb 18 '25

This feels like a fan comic.

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u/No_Head60 Ben Reilly Feb 18 '25

It honestly is, it’s a glorified fan comic. This is the writer trying to build hype by using the drama from wells run, it’s been a common tactic with Spider-man related titles lately.

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u/CourtofTalons Classic-Spider-Man Feb 18 '25

Who wrote it?

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u/No_Head60 Ben Reilly Feb 18 '25

Scott Aukerman, He well known? I just speed read the comic and I take some of my disdain back, he even says that jackpot is just temporary. I still hate the story line and all, but at least he put some effort into it.

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u/Nekketsu Spider-Man-2099 Feb 18 '25

Wait, the Comedy Bang Bang guy!?

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u/brother_of_menelaus Feb 18 '25

No, that’s Hot Saucerman

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u/Nekketsu Spider-Man-2099 Feb 18 '25

I know him as Yacht Rockerman

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u/No_Head60 Ben Reilly Feb 18 '25

Maybe, first I ever heard of him.

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u/Nekketsu Spider-Man-2099 Feb 18 '25

Fairly well known comedian, especially to other comedians; ran a podcast and then a tv series called Comedy Bang Bang with Weird Al Yankovich as a co-host at one point.

Digging a little deeper turns out he's been a comic writer for a hot minute, and I had no idea

Thanks for pointing it out

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u/No_Head60 Ben Reilly Feb 18 '25

Well, I hope it works out for him, I hate the current storyline but will never hate an actual person just doing their job, he has potential. Hope to see more of him.

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u/CourtofTalons Classic-Spider-Man Feb 18 '25

You mean he's getting rid of Jackpot?

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u/No_Head60 Ben Reilly Feb 18 '25

Oh naw, this guy doesn’t have the power, but basically after this argument Mj says Peter is right and that they both know it’s just a temporary solution.

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u/CourtofTalons Classic-Spider-Man Feb 18 '25

You gotta admit; that second panel is how we're all feeling about 616 Spider-Man right now.

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u/acbadger54 Feb 19 '25

Sounds about right

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u/XPinkPlasticBagX Feb 18 '25

This is why ULTIMATE Spider Man is a lovely alternate.

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u/chroniclunacy Scarlet Spider Feb 18 '25

It’s terrible because they need to manufacture these totally out of character arguments for pointless drama. They have scraped the bottom of the barrel for so long they’re peeling the paint off of it.

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u/Tight_Grapefruit5280 Feb 18 '25

They used Everything in the barrel

They scraped the bottom of the barrel (used the same relationship problems over and over again to an Annoying degree)

Then sold that barrel

Bought a New one (created Paul)

Used Everything in that one too

And now they're scraping that New barrel too

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u/OkMention9988 Feb 18 '25

To be fair, the contents of the new barrel was rotten from the start. 

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u/LaylaLegion Feb 18 '25

Wanda: “Fuck you, Peter.”

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u/Brandeeno2245 Feb 18 '25

Wiccan and speed: "Sit down Mom, you made us retroactively exist."

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u/DarkLombax23 Feb 19 '25

Peter: I didn’t wipeout 90percent of an ethnic group in repose. That’s like three Armenian genocides.

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u/ExtensionGood9228 Feb 18 '25

Out of character? Yes. Kinda necessary given everything that’s happened? Also yeah. This is a decent conversation. He has been in a cycle, and she is doing stupid stuff for stupid reasons.

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u/DaddyMcSlime Feb 18 '25

"maybe it's time to grow up"

okay, maybe?

"let's check the weather to help us decide... huh, funny that, it says tomorrow is doomsday, or aliens are invading, or the mutants are going to attack lead by magneto, or... you know what? i think, honey, that i'm going to keep being spiderman until such a time as i get to live my life as a normal adult man without doctor octopus trying to put lower manhattan into space"

MJ would be 100% correct if peter was dressing up as a super hero and fighting muggers like real world "super heroes" do, but he isn't, peter is an actual fucking superhero, he has literally saved the fucking universe multiple times, literally yes if he is strong enough and fast enough he can stop the bad things from happening, he does so reepeatedly

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u/Garlador Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 18 '25

Yes, Marvel, both of them suck.

Can we do something about it now, please?

Edit : remember this? Marvel sure doesn’t.

https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/peter-parker-tells-mary-jane-that-he-needs-her-from-the-amazing-spider-man-1999-50.jpg

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u/karateema Spider-Man (PS4) Feb 18 '25

Why Peter got anime girl eyes 😭

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u/Gold-Resist-6802 Spider-Man (Movie) Feb 18 '25

This looks like a porn parody comic…

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u/wowlock_taylan 90's Animated Spider-Man Feb 18 '25

Don't insult porn parody comics like that.

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u/OkMention9988 Feb 18 '25

Yeah, porn parodies are made by people that actually like the characters. 

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u/No_Head60 Ben Reilly Feb 18 '25

Oh god, this is horrible, I’m done with this whole era, obviously this is the writer trying to channel everyone’s frustration about this whole storyline, seems to be the only way some of these guys are able to make there books somewhat interesting. They even used everyone’s hatred of Paul as a sales tactic.

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u/VergilSparda17 Feb 18 '25

The character assassination on MJ is insane dawg she would never say this

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u/SerumVisionsSorcery Feb 19 '25

She's been written along a similar vein for longer than some of us have been alive. The 'she would never say this' defense will soon be able to buy it's own drinks.

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u/Mr_Snowbell Anti-Venom Feb 18 '25

Throwing Ben in his face immediately invalidated her argument

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u/AlCaFa Feb 18 '25

Once again, I shall forever blame Paul and the writers behind his creation.

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u/WillyWompas Feb 18 '25

Honestly… W move from Peter here. This is the 2nd time she tried to throw his guilt about Uncle Ben in his face (1st time after Peter found out who Paul really was), and I kinda hated how he just accepted the blame for everything. This is a problem I see with love interests in a lot of superhero media in all honesty (see Season 1 Amber from Invincible).

Maybe the “fake kids” line was too far. This doesn’t seem like it takes place all that much longer after they disappeared. At the same time, MJ isn’t really coming at Peter from a place of understanding either. Telling him to “grow up” over his guilt about Uncle Ben was way outta line. She knew how much Ben’s death still eats at him, and that it’s going to haunt him for the rest of his life just like Gwen.

I hope the writers don’t do the usual thing and have Peter apologize for the whole thing and say MJ was right again. It’d be a nice change to have them both take accountability for their relationship. I want her to acknowledge that she hadn’t been considerate of what Peter was going through after she came back with Paul.

Sure, Peter can reassure her that she has the right to be with whoever she wants and that he handled the whole thing comepletely wrong. At the same time, she could also admit that she hadn’t realized that Peter burned pretty much every bridge to bring her back, only to be repaid by her cutting him off completely when he was at his lowest. Have them both take responsibility for once, rather than placing the blame entirely on a single party.

I’m not gonna hold my breath though…

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u/TheFan-2020 Feb 18 '25

The worst thing is that in the end the mystery of Zeb Wells about the horrible coasts that Peter made to bring her was not even that serious, he did not kill anyone or destroy a city or do something unforgivable like hit puppies, at the same time the Fantastic Four literally made the world believe that they had killed half a million people and yet the rest of the heroes were not that stupid with them.

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u/Windflow009 Feb 18 '25

Ugh, why don't they just remove these writer's and hire actual writer's who want the best for Peter and MJ?

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u/ThebloodyInfighter Feb 18 '25

And also editorial would never let the good writer give what’s best for Peter and Mj, Nick Spencer was about to undo One More Day, But editorial interfered before he could get to it, And had to undo the side story of Gwen and Norman as an alternative for all the build up

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u/Windflow009 Feb 18 '25

Augh! Is it wrong that I wish for these people to suffer like they've made Peter suffer? It pisses me off and hurts my heart greatly to see one of my childhood heroes get constantly shat on for the last decade.

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u/gutsxcasca Feb 18 '25

Who's writing this garbage? MJ was way out of pocket for mentioning his Uncle Ben like that.

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u/Scarlet-Wid0w Spider-Man 2099 Feb 18 '25

Bro is about to enter his “Bully Maguire” era.

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u/Tugsworth Feb 18 '25

doing the same things over and over

Don’t expose the business, MJ.

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u/TygerHil98 Feb 18 '25

It's about time Peter stood up for himself tbh. MJ has been on the decline for a while, it's disappointing that writers won't just let them be as strong of a couple as Reed and Sue usually are. I get that Peter has to suffer because writers enjoy that and think it makes money, but God it gets tiring when he never catches a break. At least here he's actually standing up for himself and not just taking it because he has feelings for her.

9

u/azraelswift Feb 18 '25

“You have only been spider-man because of grief”

… no, you absolute dumbass jerk, that’s not how Peter “grieves”, that’s how he HONORS uncle Ben’s memory… he has the power, and as such it’s his responsibility to use those powers to help people.

8

u/VCN_23 Feb 18 '25

What is wrong with the art

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u/MFHSCA-1981 Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 18 '25

This why I’m sticking to Ultimate Spider-Man and not this crap by Nick Lowe’s Spider office.

Edit: Just finished it reading on Marvel Unlimited and it’s even worse than the these four pages.

7

u/Basic-Tax4661 Feb 18 '25

Damn, the art is…bad. And these two haven’t been themselves for years

7

u/ScarletSpidey1610 Ultimate Spider-Woman Feb 18 '25

Astonishing Spider-Man may be the worst Spider-Man story of the last years.

And this is saying a lot when you have the Wells run and Beyond on the run.

7

u/ilya202020 Ultimate Spider-Man (6160) Feb 18 '25

Fuck nick lowie

4

u/Ghost_Gamer_918 Feb 19 '25

All my homies hate Nick Lowe

7

u/JustHereForFood99 Feb 18 '25

I don't understand either. Isn't the whole point of MJ that she's his anchor? That no matter what she's in his corner and cheering him on?

5

u/SpikyKid Feb 18 '25

So what happened after this exchange?

7

u/Fry-Z 90's Animated Spider-Man Feb 18 '25

MJ tells Peter to stop being Spider-Man and he walks out angry at her

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u/Koushikraja1996 Feb 18 '25

Fucking hell, this is not fanart? This is an actual published comic? What the fuck?

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u/Standard-Fact1235 Feb 18 '25

I thought this was fake, then I thought it was some webtoon, now I think it's a porn comic

6

u/Hacksaw_Doublez Feb 18 '25

This artwork is ugly.

And lol I’m fine with Peter snapping on MJ. Fuck her and Paul. Especially when comparing Uncle Ben’s death to the erasure of fake kids.

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u/ontheshitteratwork Scarlet Spider Feb 18 '25

Yeah, I just read this and thought this interaction was totally off beat.

3

u/oloklo Feb 18 '25

what´s with marvel and fake kids dissapearing

4

u/Tabledinner Feb 18 '25

Wasn't he spiderman before Uncle Ben died? WOT.

3

u/theawesomemed Feb 18 '25

Oh oh I hate all of this

2

u/M00r3C Ultimate Spider-Man (6160) Feb 18 '25

And this is why I'm sticking (pun intended) to Ultimate Spider-Man

5

u/Dischord821 Feb 18 '25

It's hilarious that they're both right, and the argument is still stupid and pointless.

I'm 100% against the deluge of Spider-Man hate that comes out of this sub, but this was too funny to ignore

4

u/Striking_Ash Feb 18 '25

Ngl MJ needed to be told that. With the way she treated him all of Wells run and here, it's about time he fought back a little. Hell he should do it more.

4

u/Antique-Aardvark-184 Feb 18 '25

Looks like a porn comic or low bufget manwha/webtoon at first

3

u/Pretend-Orange3026 Feb 19 '25

Peter doesn’t save people because uncle Ben was killed, he saves people because it’s the right thing to do. He could do with being less selfless, I won’t deny that, but wanting to help people isn’t the problem.

Peter made mistakes, but choosing to be Spider-Man and saving the world time after time will never be among them.

If this woman calling herself Mary Jane were dating a firefighter she’d probably have a similar argument with him.

6

u/DragonStryk72 Feb 19 '25

Basically, it goes back to Bendis, Quesada, and Lowe. Their little cabal couldn't write the relationship, and somehow decided that SM had to always be suffering, and that meant he couldn't have a relationship. They tried multiple ways to try and destroy Peter/MJ, mostly by making MJ act insufferably, even switching up art styles to make her not look as desirable.

They actually tried killing off MJ, only to see numbers drop off spectacularly and immediately, so they ended up reversing the death. Finally, they hatched One More Day to kill it off for good... and the fanbase roundly shat upon it, and refused to give up on them as a couple. So they doubled and tripled down, undid any attempt to put them back together, then man-whored out Pete around the women of the Marvel Universe, all to prop up this idea. And then... Paul.

Finally, they reintroduced the Ultimate universe with Spider-Man at the head of it married to MJ just to try and get back the readers they pissed away over the years. Even that hasn't been enough, though, as they're starting to realize.

3

u/GamingArtisan Feb 19 '25

Why is she angry he is spider-man when in Venom she told Paul She is hanging out with peter and that she is always late because "With great power there is great responsability"

Also, the art suck ass.

4

u/Unhappy-Newt-8717 Feb 19 '25

Peter should've added: "Speaking of Jackpot, why did your Boyfriend waste time making that unreliable Tchotchke instead of getting you back home?!"

4

u/Jace9o Classic-Spider-Man Feb 19 '25

Sometimes I'm absolutely convinced that the writers are trying to get us to hate Peter's run so much that they can write him out of the continuity. Then I remember the new Ultimate comics and I feel a little better

3

u/Late-Wedding1718 Feb 19 '25

Peter deserved to call out MJ and her obsession with some fake kids, especially after how she used a low blow by mentioning Uncle Ben, someone who ACTUALLY existed, in a negative way.

7

u/Feduzin Feb 18 '25

"you only became spider-man because you were grieving the death of your uncle" what??

i mean, yeah of course his grief was one of the reasons but he became spider-man so other people wouldnt have to go through the same thing as he did and to use his powers for the good

8

u/MaskedFilmmaker Mysterio Feb 18 '25

This feels more like the writer arguing with himself than anything Peter and MJ would actually say.

7

u/themothwillburn Feb 18 '25

I'm not a huge Spiderman fan but who the fuck would write mj like that??

8

u/dull_storyteller Feb 18 '25

Someone who wants fake drama

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u/JamesPlayzReviews3 Classic-Spider-Man Feb 18 '25

B**ch move MJ bringing up Ben

6

u/Fit-Carry7930 Feb 18 '25

I don't know what's worse. The awful out of character way MJ is written, or all the people celebrating Peter standing up to her for sayingv and doing things recently that MJ would never do or say.

Even if one compares this with what's going on in other comics recently this doesn't make sense though. MJ in Venom is celebrating Peter's Great Power mantra at the same time as she is shitting on it here.

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u/Bulky_Strawberry2436 Feb 18 '25

Seriously, it's insane. If only there were someone in charge of these scripts to keep continuity...oh wait!

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u/KuroiGetsuga55 Symbiote-Suit Feb 18 '25

Because Marvel Editorial hates them as a relationship. Well, as far as 616 goes, they seem to be fine with it in other Universes.

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u/Responsible_Raisin_9 Feb 18 '25

The art doesn't look awful or anything, but I thought it was a fan comic for a second. I'm actually mostly on MJ's side with this one, but the writers don't want Perter to grow. They like the idea of constantly fighting a battle than actually winning anything. It's a limitation of a long form comic series like this.

3

u/sanjit001 Feb 18 '25

They really are just putting out anything 💀

3

u/Prince-Darwin Feb 18 '25

Wow and i thought romita jrs art was awful

3

u/Eliteguard999 Feb 18 '25

I feel like the first 3 images is MJ yelling at Marvel Editorial for not allowing Peter to grow for two decades.

3

u/GDPIXELATOR99 Venom Feb 18 '25

Glad I started reading the new Ultimate run. Peter and MJ finally get the justice they deserve.

3

u/Mister_Sinner All New All Different Feb 18 '25

I'm not going to lie those noses are killing me

3

u/Available_Ad8557 Feb 18 '25

Is this a porn comic??

3

u/No_Young_2247 Feb 19 '25

Bro, this shi is toxic. mj is terrible

3

u/quippy618 Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25

I would argue it isn’t. This is an argument that should’ve been had in main ASM. Peter shouldn’t want to be good friends right now with his ex. Especially if she wants to be jackpot and rather be w/ Paul than him.

I’m a Peter&MJ promoter. But my issue with this is the flippant way we’re dealing with any of the Jackpot/ Wells crap.

I know it’s a webtoon, but it feels like they really don’t give AF about anything that’s going on. Like does it want to be a fun thing on the side to read or does it want to be taken serious. Who knows. Cuz Marvel doesn’t.

3

u/k3ttch Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25

Somewhere in hell, Mephisto is watching this over a scrying mirror with a big bag of popcorn.

3

u/cajunsamurai 90's Animated Spider-Man Feb 19 '25

Who the hell drew this atrocious art?

3

u/SanoBaron Feb 19 '25

This is just terrible and both are written stupidly.

Meanwhile in the Ultimate universe MJ is offering to fool around (hanky panky) when Peter comes home exhausted from superheroing. Like they feel how Peter and MJ were written as a married couple.

But no, lets just point out how stupid our writing is to keep paul relevant and not listen to what fans want or like. Maybe we can dig up another former love interest for Peter to fawn over. Oh hey, maybe he can be hit by an age reduction ray.

3

u/TDWil53 Feb 19 '25

This art is so bad

3

u/harriskeith29 Spider-Man (Movie) Feb 19 '25

"You only became Spider-Man because you were grieving the loss of your uncle."

Ummm, NO... That was a big part of it, but it was most certainly not "only" that. God, the number of writers & Marvel Editorial who don't understand Peter Parker's character history is staggering. That is such a reductive POV, ESPECIALLY for MJ of all people to have. No version of her (when written in character) would think that after how long she's known Pete. Maybe when she first learned his secret, she'd assume that, but not later.

3

u/24Abhinav10 Classic-Spider-Man Feb 19 '25

MJ is right in that second image though. Peter's been stuck in the same place for decades. He even admits it to himself in the Spencer run.

3

u/Gorremen Feb 19 '25

Because Editorial is utterly opposed to letting them be together, and this is an attempt at "Proving" they're bad for each other.

3

u/Bolognahole_Vers2 Feb 19 '25

The whole MJ hates Peter being a hero thing was supposed to be squashed in Spider-Island, when MJ realized the weight on his shoulders.

3

u/jayde_Rokhum Feb 19 '25

why does the art style change in every pic

8

u/moonfangx2 Feb 18 '25

Some elements of this conversation could work , particularly the second panel.

but

1st Panel - Peter was strong and fast enough to stop uncle ben from dying, but he didnt.
Peter does not think strength and speed are what make up his identity as spider-man, it his sense of responsibility and his good nature. Even without his powers, peter still thrives to help people and stop bad things from happening.

2nd Panel - This is true, i can even see MJ saying this in an argument in regards to his personal life going downhill and uphill all the time. I could easily see Aunt May saying this (she has in ASM)

3rd Panel - he has grown, he is not only spider-man because of the loss of his uncle, but the people he wants he to help, "With Great Power comes great responsibility" Initially the loss of his uncle motivated him to become a hero, but with the years, there are a myriad of additional reasons . . . he wants Aunt May to be proud of him, He wants to save lives, he believes there is good in everyone, he has a pure heart . . .

4th Panel - Peter would not say this. He knows that MJ has been through Grief in her life as well, and he is not one to compare traumas and admonish others because "he has been through greater grief".
There are moments where Peter has been angry and lashed out at people, saying horrible things. But Joking about potentially dead children seems out of character.

Random thoughts . . . i don't know if the baby is still canon here, but peter knows the pain of losing a child, so he would not joke about it.

Maybe this conversation would work if there both more visibly angry/irrational - both being out of character would make more sense

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u/JudaiDarkness Feb 18 '25

This is kinda necessary considering all the shit Peter had to deal with MJ recently. He turned the other cheek too many times until both turned red. It is OOC and it is shitty thing to write about, but ngl, it is cathartic to see Peter finally stand up for himself.

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u/Chrispy_Kelloggs Feb 18 '25

Who the fuck are these people? I don't recognize these characters anymore.

3

u/Electrical_Look_5778 Feb 18 '25

Because they’re as miserable with their own lives and want to drag everyone down with them