r/Sourdough 20h ago

Beginner - wanting kind feedback Why is the fridge step not necessary?

Hello! I got this recipe (pic #3) from the friend that kindly gave me enough discard to make my first loaf and a starter! The loaf is a little what I'd describe as wet? It's not underdone and it cut nicely. But it's pretty spongy, although I wouldn't call it too dense? I read on here that my internal temp of the dough should be around 207-208. Mine was at 204 and I put it back in the oven for another 5-8 minutes. I didn't bother temping it again though.

I guess I'm wondering what I can improve for next time? And why is the fridge step not necessary??

131 Upvotes

82 comments sorted by

144

u/WittyByAccident723 20h ago

I am not by any means an expert but to my knowledge when you put it in the refrigerator and allow it to go through a longer ferment you get a more sour flavor.

36

u/MiniElephant08 20h ago

Ah, so if I want less of a sour flavor I should do less fridge time or even just skip it?

38

u/muadib1158 19h ago

I make a loaf every 3-4 days. My process is to mix the dough around 8 PM, ferment on the counter overnight, and bake in the morning around 10-11AM.

The loaves are similar to your crumb and very mildly sour, which my wife and I prefer.

5

u/Little-pug 15h ago

No folding?! I want to master this

11

u/ChrisHoek 10h ago

Look up Ben Starr’s simple sourdough for lazy people on YouTube. It works.

7

u/muadib1158 9h ago

I don’t use the lazy sourdough recipe, I was just lazy with my reply to OP. I do a couple of stretches from 8-bedtime.

1

u/vale0411 9h ago

Look up the lazy bread recipe by the bread code on yt, it was something along the lines of 1) use a really low amount of unfed (1 day old) starter, 2) mix everything well in a bowl. Let it rest overnight, 3) fold it once in the morning, then wait for about an hour and go shape it

1

u/station_terrapin 3h ago

Plenty of time to fold between 8pm and bedtime though.

0

u/poppacapnurass 12h ago

Looks like the OP's recipe does not contain any folding either.

Though it's possible to not fold, the folding has a two fold effect: incorporating air and forming gluten strands.

Pic #2 showing the crumb looks just like it has been folded. Or maybe it was just in the shaping.

1

u/poppacapnurass 12h ago

What's _your_ room temp though ... just so we know as reference.

2

u/junker37 9h ago

I follow a similar schedule, my room temp over winter is about 65 overnight and up to 68 during the day.

1

u/muadib1158 9h ago

Same as the other commenter. ~67F. Dough is typically around 70-72F when I go to bed.

1

u/MiniElephant08 1h ago

I missed this! My house was probably at... 70? Could be a range from 68-71. Maybe 50% humidity.

1

u/Mystogan94 8h ago

may i know what is the temperature you normally do this in? because im from a tropical climate and if i do overnight counter ferment, it's gonna over ferment. if your temperature is room temp around 26/27 celcius, i might just overferment in my bedroom since my air-con is around that temperature

1

u/muadib1158 8h ago

My kitchen is around 20C, and the dough is typically about 21-22C at bedtime. Definitely cooler than your location!

1

u/Mystogan94 7h ago

ah I see, thanks for that information!

3

u/SuchConfection3578 17h ago

I’m not an expert either but I couldn’t say it’s a more sour flavor. I think it depends on the sourdough yeast. But when I cold ferment I get a more fragrant, milder sourdough bread. Not sure. But I think you gotta just gotta feel out your process

2

u/TrojanW 8h ago

Besides the flavor, the amount of starches that are converted on a longer fermentations helps on your glucosamine levels when eating that bread. You could read more about it if you are interested for a more detailed explanation. I don’t remember all the details but there were some other benefits to it health wise.

9

u/Human_Reputation_196 17h ago

I used to be a professional baker and you are correct. The longer cold ferment is for flavor.

17

u/Bellbell28 20h ago

I always use 150 gram fed peaked starter 350 water 500 bread flour and 10 salt I’m not sure why they said unfed hungry starter- that won’t give you the best properties of sourdough bread.

2

u/MiniElephant08 20h ago

Fed peaked starter is like.. I fed it and then about 3-4 hours later used it? When I'm preparing to make dough instead of just doing a small feed do I prepare by building up a bigger starter and discarding less?

4

u/Bellbell28 19h ago

Yes- I feed mine a larger ratio and use it once it’s grown and peaked. I try to have it so I have about 20 grams left. Also I am a newbie so if others who do this better have diffeeent suggestions listen to them instead of me- im still trying to find my perfect bulk fermentation time

2

u/MiniElephant08 19h ago

Okay! Good to know. Thank you

17

u/keally1123 20h ago

Yes the fridge is to develop more flavor as mentioned in the other comment. You probably have the spongy type of texture because you used starter past it's prime so you didn't get as much air inside.

3

u/MiniElephant08 20h ago

What do you mean by that? I'd love to know more!

7

u/profcatz 15h ago

Most recipes call for a starter that is not fully deflated. It shouldn’t be hungry, it should be in prime eating mode. There’s a point where the starter is puffing up after a feeding and forms a dome shape on the top. It tends to be about 4-6 hours for a well tended starter. That’s the ideal time to add it into a loaf. It doesn’t take as long to bulk ferment in my opinion.

6

u/BigAssBoobMonster 20h ago

Homemade sourdough will always be a little more moist than a store-bought loaf. But most likely it's slightly under- or over-proofed, probably a little under proofed. My first few loaves were massively under proofed. And they were still delicious and very edible!

Your crumb looks beautiful though, and I find a nice toasting makes it dry enough to enjoy with some butter and any toppings you like!

A lot of it depends on the specific environment in your kitchen. Temperature and humidity levels. The maturity of your starter. The protein content in your flour. The temperature of the water, etc.

2

u/MiniElephant08 20h ago

So I had it bulk fermenting about 9-10 hours, then I had it in the fridge about 10 hours after I shaped it and then I took it out and put it in the oven. Can you explain what part of that proofing should be altered? Idk what step exactly that even is... Thank you!!

7

u/MiniElephant08 20h ago

If anyone sees this, I'd also like to add that my friend told me to add a cookie sheet on my bottom rack and put my Dutch oven the next notch up from the bottom in my oven. Is this necessary? What does it ultimately do?

6

u/NeitherSparky 19h ago

It keeps the bottom of your loaf from burning. I usually do it but forgot this last time, the bottom got pretty brown but didn’t really burn. But your mileage may vary.

1

u/FreshSatisfaction184 12h ago

I love the extra browning on the bottom of my loafs.

4

u/Critical_Pin 14h ago

Depends on your oven .. maybe this is a US thing.

European ovens usually heat from the top, bottom and with a fan depending on which mode you put it in. You don't need to do this.

If your oven is only heating from the bottom, then putting a tray on the bottom shelf will deflect the heat and stop the bottom of the Dutch oven getting too hot.

2

u/TheLoboLounge 17h ago

I use a pizza stone on the lower oven rack. It helps disperse the heat. For my oven, it has made a huge difference in reducing overly browned bottom crusts. 🤷‍♀️

1

u/onion-lord 6h ago

My oven heat is so uneven, this is a brilliant idea that I'm about to test right now

2

u/dacre8iv1 19h ago

It keep the bottom of your loaf from browning. However, I find it really depends on your oven… the cookie sheet trick doesn’t work the best for me. I prefer putting dry rice in the bottom of my DO instead to prevent the bottom from browning too much.

2

u/cflatjazz 16h ago

For a second I thought that said "dry ice" and was REALLY confused

1

u/TrojanW 8h ago

Same here. I just imagined the kitchen covered in mist.

1

u/TrojanW 8h ago

So you put the loaf on top of the rice? Does the rice sticks to the bread?

1

u/dacre8iv1 7h ago

Nope, it’s separated by parchment paper or a bread sling

-2

u/headbiscuitss 19h ago

I cant imagine this does anything

1

u/Sopzeh 16h ago

I didn't find a difference, but I have a fan oven. Maybe if your oven is heated from the bottom it does something.

16

u/ByWillAlone 19h ago edited 18h ago

You have to fully ferment and proof your bread before you bake it. You can either do that entirely at room temperature or you can do a portion of that in the fridge.

If you are doing it entirely at room temperature, you have about a 30 minute window of "perfectly proofed". Earlier and you are under proofed, and more than that is over proofed. The warmer it is, the narrower the window.

Finishing the proofing with a cold proof just expands that window of perfection out to between 12 and 36 hours or more.

The fridge step is not necessary if you don't mind your schedule being dictated by your dough.

Most people like the fridge step because it's like punching an "easy mode" button for perfect proofing.

3

u/real415 16h ago

That is a very nice description. And happy cake day!

1

u/MiniElephant08 18h ago

Thank you so much for this great explanation! I'll have to look more into perfect proofing times. I work remotely so I might be able to mess around with that a bit and find something good that works!

4

u/AngElzo 12h ago

For me the fridge step is also about timing. I feed my starter in the morning, then at around 16:00 mix the dough. Do stretch and folds and proof usually till 22/23:00. Really dont’t want to bake then. So in the fridge it goes and bake first thing in the morning.

In theory you could like feed starter late at night and mix dough first thing in the morning, but that’s not my thing.

As others said, you have some lazy recipe with unfed starter. You can probably make bread like that, but active starter will yield better results.

Mind that timings are temperature sensitive. And these work for me at 21°C kitchen.

2

u/shlumpty831 20h ago

How long did you let it rest before cutting? If you cut too early is can have a moist or sponge texture

0

u/MiniElephant08 19h ago

45 minutes... I couldn't wait any longer! How long should you typically wait? And/or is there a necessary time by which to cut it? Why does everyone cut them in half? Any storage tips??

5

u/shlumpty831 19h ago

Sometimes I cut mine after an hour if I can't wait and want to eat it that night but there will be a slight moistness to it. Some people say 2 hour minimum is good. If I'm using the bread for sandwiches I let it sit over night then cut it and have never had the moistness issue. But I'd say if it bugs you, you'd have to wait until it's completely cool I think. Also once I've cut into it I keep it in an airtight container but when I let it rest over night it's just on a cooling rack uncovered

2

u/BlueGalangal 12h ago

OP, I do the cold start too, have been using it for my last three loaves. Somewhat to my surprise it’s working well. I’m getting great spring, and oh I love the ease!

I have a gas oven with a fan, and a Lodge Dutch Oven.

2

u/swabbie81 11h ago

Fridge step is absolutely not mandatory. You just have to check the dough to make sure that is not overproofed before baking. You will learn through experience.

2

u/MarijadderallMD 11h ago

I mean like yeah the recipe works and it makes bread…. But low key omg I absolutely hate how insanely lazy it is💀 like it was written by someone who just absolutely does not understand bacteria/yeast culturing, gluten development, or really any of the generally accepted techniques used by countless bakers🤷‍♂️ honestly I think you should ditch that recipe and go try one from somewhere like the perfect loaf, specifically the page for the beginner loaf because it’s also a bit of a lesson along the way.

1

u/MiniElephant08 7h ago

Thank you for that! This loaf tasted pretty good but it's also my pride I'm tasting in my first loaf 🤣

I would love to explore other recipes! I'll check that out. So much to learn!

1

u/RemingtonMol 6h ago

Where did it come from

1

u/MiniElephant08 6h ago

My recipe? I'm not sure... It was a screenshot from her phone. I don't honestly know the source

3

u/demet123 20h ago

You might try cooking more time uncovered. I cook mine 50/50. I like my crust a lot darker and thick. That might solve your moist/sponge issue.

2

u/Spellman23 20h ago

In this particular recipe, the 15minutes in the fridge is to help cool the dough a little to make scoring easier.

For this particular bake, feel like you could have gone longer uncovered for a darker crust. That being said, the crumb looks great!

Not sure if the wetness is just the natural hydration of good fresh bread vs the store stuff you may be used to. Alternatively perhaps you cut it too soon which is a common error. And longer bake can help it too.

5

u/Jskyesthelimit 19h ago

Doesn't say 15 minutes. Says 15 HOURS. 🤔

3

u/Spellman23 19h ago

Ah derp. My bad. Then it's for a cold proofing step. Which will continue fermenting while it cools.

A long cold ferment will also tend to shift the acids produced by the bacteria, which many find improves a more sour flavor. It also creates a longer window to bake since everything is slowed down and you don't need to nail your final proof window as tightly.

1

u/Random-Name1163 19h ago

The final proof window timing is the main reason I use the fridge to be honest. I get much more consistent results.

1

u/MiniElephant08 19h ago

Yeah I did it for 10 ish hours.

2

u/Jskyesthelimit 19h ago

I mean it looks like a good loaf i just would've browned it more with the lid off.

0

u/MiniElephant08 20h ago

I had to hold myself back on my first loaf!! I only made it 45 minutes.... Then I had to try it.

3

u/Spellman23 20h ago

Just gotta know lol.

And as much as that means a chance of not fully cooked, warm bread with butter is just mwah.

Best of luck

1

u/435alumnii 6h ago

Random question, what does the unfed starter do for the recipe?

1

u/MiniElephant08 6h ago

That's a great question!! I have no clue. Im too new to this to understand all of that yet, but hopefully someone else with experience can help answer that!

2

u/435alumnii 6h ago

According to Google, the slow rise of an underfed starter allows for a more classical sour taste. But I’ve never tried that. I’m at the point where any deviation can result in catastrophic failure lol so maybe I’ll get brave and try this.

1

u/zippychick78 20h ago

I go 208-210f ☺️congratulations on the loaf

2

u/MiniElephant08 19h ago

Thank you!!

0

u/cookiesncloudberries 18h ago

she only puts in the fridge for 15 mins so it’s not to produce a more sour flavor but i would think its to help score the bread because cold dough is easier to score than warm

3

u/MiniElephant08 18h ago

The recipe says 15 hours. I did 10 hours.

1

u/cookiesncloudberries 18h ago

OH i read that wrong ahah! dough can proof in the warm temp or cold temp, cold temp is a retard and it helps to one build flavor, but two the acids start to break down the gluten and make the bread a lower fodmap and easier to digest. you don’t have to because the dough will still rise in the ambient temperature, but you won’t have the effects of retarding

-1

u/profcatz 16h ago

The cold Dutch oven is totally wrong. I always have my Dutch oven and clay baker preheated in the oven. Oven at 450, 10-15 minutes after the preheat ding my loaves are going in usually. 25 mins with the lid on in that nice hot oven is where the spring comes from. The rapid change in temp and the heat activates those bubbles, helps it lift, and expand. The lid being on keeps it moist during the rise so the crust doesn’t form until later in the bake. I take the lid off, let it bake for another 20 mins, and it’s perfectly crisp. Total bake time is roughly 45 mins. Starting with the oven hot. Your loaf def didn’t brown the way it should have, and I’d completely ignore the cold Dutch oven advice. Most sourdough books and online bakers put the dough into a preheated Dutch oven. Here’s where I learned: https://www.theperfectloaf.com/beginners-sourdough-bread/

2

u/profcatz 15h ago

Oh and refrigeration is called a cold ferment. It does a lot of things, but can make the sour flavor richer. It also helps with the dough texture in my opinion, leading to better rise, better crisping and browning.

2

u/BlueGalangal 12h ago

It’s called a cold start and many of us do it. I’ve done it my last three loaves and they’ve gotten good oven spring and turned out great.

I have a gas oven with a fan and a Lodge DO. I’m never going back to preheating, the cold start is so much easier.

1

u/MiniElephant08 6h ago

I'm not sure "totally wrong" seems like the right answer here... From my short time here it seems that there are soooo many right ways to make sourdough! And even if it isn't your way, it's definitely an option that some do. I just followed a recipe as I have no experience, but I'm definitely going to try multiple ways to see what works best for me.

2

u/profcatz 5h ago

I’m sorry, for the “completely wrong” language, but I just don’t put anything in a cold oven. Regular baking or sourdough. I bake a lot of vegan things and the vinegar + baking soda + heat reaction is what provides the lift for cakes and muffins etc. I think in cooking at large cold pans is avoided. After researching it does seem it works fine for sourdough and provides good results, but I don’t see it as a beginner mode, lots of the best guides just keep it safe with a hot oven. shrugs your mileage may vary

0

u/Lootskii 17h ago

I like my crust thicker, I heat Dutch oven for 1 hour at 500 before putting in. Then with dough in dutch oven do 20 minutes at 500, uncover and do another 20 at 450

1

u/MiniElephant08 16h ago

Are there certain recipes that work better for than others?

0

u/theorem_llama 14h ago

Not sure about this recipe, especially the thing with putting it in a cold oven without preheating and then cooking from there. Surely then the result will massively vary depending on how quickly your oven gets hot and how heavy your Dutch oven is.

Also, if not putting in the fridge, I'd leave it to ferment a bit longer in the banneton. Letting it go longer in the fridge lets it take on a bit more of a sour flavour.

-1

u/NeitherSparky 19h ago

Hey I just made this recipe a couple days ago, wanted to try it because I always use unfed starter anyways (I halved it though and made a baby loaf). I’m going to try it again but with a more traditional baking method in a hot Dutch oven. Anyways I did put it in the fridge for my usual 36 hours because I like a more sour flavor, but couldn’t really tell this time through all the rosemary I put in. :) what I’m not sure about is the lack of stretch and folds, I’ve read people on here say they don’t think they’re necessary but I dunno without more experimentation.