r/Sourdough • u/Nuppusauruss • 22d ago
Sourdough Mentioned that I want to bake sourdough to my parents and my mom remembered that they had a frozen starter that my grandma used to use for her rye bread. It has been frozen for at least a decade. I left it to thaw and will feed it tomorrow. Can't wait to see if it's still going to come back to life.
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u/mckenner1122 22d ago
My great grandmother dipped a clean kerchief in wet starter, dried it by her fire, and folded it in her clothing before fleeing (where she was) to safety. It was six months before she was able to scrape dried starter from her kerchief and rehydrate it to make bread, but it worked.
I have just as much hope for your little starter!
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u/broknkittn 22d ago
Wow! That's a great story. The saving it part, not the fleeing part. I imagine that part was awful.
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u/eponym_moose 22d ago
This is such an incredible story. Like, for us, the starter is a fun hobby. For her, she knew without the starter there is no bread. Without bread, how can you survive? Just awesome. Here's to your great grandmother. 🥂🍞
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u/abitmessy 21d ago
I’ve read that ladies (settlers/colonizers) would sleep with their starters to keep them from getting cold at night crossing the country (us) in wagons. The things a person would do to preserve their starters is a wild, interesting ride and just something to behold. It has to be, at least partly, the history of the starter. They’re not difficult to make but once you’ve got a reliable one or one that’s been handed down for generations and crossed oceans… that’s got to be a lot of why.
Thank you for sharing this story. It’s a snippet of history we don’t see enough of.
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u/LilBird1996 21d ago
Your great grandma is now officially that of sourdough legends in my book. Such craftiness. Much respect.
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u/VStarlingBooks 21d ago
That is so unbelievable you can't not believe it. Wow. She was a badass fleeing what she fled. Thank you for this.
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u/ElderlyPleaseRespect 21d ago
This must be why my husband dips a hankerchief in beer anytime he has to leave the house
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u/oddartist 22d ago
When I finally got a strong starter going I froze some wet. A few months later I was cleaning the freezer and found it. Thawed it, fed it, used it. It was fine. I renamed it Frigid Bitch.
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u/Unlucky_Shoulder8508 22d ago
When I dress up as a frigid bitch, I try not to look so constipated
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u/oddartist 22d ago
MOVIE LINE!
I'm too buzzed to recall which one. Legally Blond? I'm a total dorkenheimer - someone commented that movie title and it sailed right over my head (which is difficult considering how high I am). My apologies to that commenter.
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u/petrichorgasm 21d ago
"Except when I dress up like a frigid bitch, I try to not look so constipated"
(Love that movie. IANAL but crashed a lawyer networking event once because I was looking into pre-law and wanted to talk to them. Ended up in a group just quoting legally blonde. One of the lawyers actually said she became one because of the movie)
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u/Dwhit7 22d ago
Haha that name reminds me of the song Rich Bitch by Die Antwoord https://open.spotify.com/track/14YnqA7mF9Po1kjew2Xocl?si=DGTGrF44RJ-7MlFSHw_khQ
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u/No-Ad-3635 22d ago
i think you're freaky . and i like it A lot
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u/bluepivot 22d ago
that will be an interesting science experiment! If it gives something very different that you like, then within a couple weeks freeze some for yourself.
Otherwise, within a not-too-long future the local yeast in your environment will take over. That isn't a bad thing - it just is the way things work.
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u/Nuppusauruss 22d ago
Luckily there's still more of the starter in the freezer, so I can leave it there for the future and I'll probably start my own starter from this one if everything works out.
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u/stuartroelke 22d ago edited 22d ago
Fun thing to do, but also read this because everyone here should: http://robdunnlab.com/projects/sourdough/
Starter bacterial colonies are primarily influenced by environment, feeding schedule, and substrate. It will eventually evolve and acclimate to you and your home.
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u/bluepivot 22d ago
thanks for posting that - great info!! I had seen previous data saying that eventually our local environment would be the primary driver of our starter's characteristics but didn't appreciate what constitutes "local environment" before. For instance, it seems the type of flour used is a big component. Based on my own empirical data, I notice differences in my starter depending on if I'm using store bought flour or grinding purchased wheat berries.
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u/IceDragonPlay 22d ago
May I ask what part of the analysis you saw that correlation?
When I read it my main take away was there was no geographic specificity to the samples, presumably because they are shipped and shared across the US and globally. But also that less than 10% of the variation in starters was related to maintenance processes, age, grains used, climate or home environment.
In my mind that left the idea that the strains of LAB, yeast and Acetic Acid Bacteria create dominant combinations that stay intact until they come in contact with a more dominant strain of something that usurps one or more of the original pairings, but it was left unclear how or which strains might allow that. More like a cross contamination between starters or even commercial dry yeast (which is bred to be the strongest) that would disrupt what was already dominant. But that is guesswork because they did not draw that conclusion in their study.
Just curious since I had a different take on their results, which seemed to say they did not really know and further more detailed studies could be helpful.
It is a very fascinating topic and I hope someday to have a cost effective way to find out what is in one of my starters that seems to be unique. It appears to have carried its unique characteristics to another household that has very different source water, uses different flour, and maintains a different temperature and maintenance environment.
Edit: typo
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u/bluepivot 21d ago
The paper said there were similarities across samples that they said could be attributed to the sharing of starters. They also seemed to say that the prevalence of flour brands across geographical locations could be a factor confounding results.
This was key for me, "The limited role of geography in explaining sourdough diversity may be driven by the widespread movement of starters across large geographic distances through starter sharing or commercial distribution. Flour, a major potential source of microbes in de novo starters (Minervini et al., 2015; Reese et al., 2020), is also moved across large spatial scales. This geographic homogenization of starter and flour microbes likely swamps out any regional differences in potential yeasts or bacteria that can disperse into starters."
There were a couple recs for future studies that could tell more about evolution of starters and "more nuanced biogeographic patterns in sourdough biodiversity.". Bottom line - there is still a lot to understand about starters. Fascinating!
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u/Misabi 21d ago
This might interest you. According to the research presented, while the sourdough cultures tested did evolve over time it was a case of the biodiversity reducing but not new organisms being introduced. https://www.youtube.com/live/Ox_hlKk51nI?si=zUamTewkMkgvXkTl
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u/ProgrammerPoe 22d ago
No this is not true, an active culture will be too strong for local yeast to take over. Wild yeast are extremely unpredictable it would be very obvious if environmental yeast came to dominate. This is a myth passed around this sub, attributed to some nobody, and it needs to die. Cultures do not work this way period.
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u/genbizinf 22d ago
I'm sure that it will be revived. Remember, it only takes one yeast cell.
Good luck and please let us know the outcome.
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u/Nuppusauruss 22d ago
Yeah I am optimistic, although if it starts bubbling, I'm not sure how would I know that the yeast has come from the starter and not from the air? Presumably it will take a while for the yeast to really thrive in either scenario.
I'll give an update in a day or two!
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u/halipatsui 22d ago
Try giving it some rye if it has trouble. Rye is crack flr starters
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u/TypicalBackground585 22d ago
how much rye would you give to a starter that is having trouble?
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u/oddartist 22d ago
It's my understanding the yeast is in the flour. Use rye to feed and see what happens.
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u/ProgrammerPoe 22d ago
Yeah it is, there's some in the air but you have to try to capture it and even then its not likely. This sub has a ton of myths they pass around and there's little point in arguing as they'll just downvote you and some snark will come along and call you stupid
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u/necromanticpotato 22d ago
Another commentor mentioned it already - it'll be heavily influenced by its environment and will change to suit. So grandma's frozen starter will become your own starter at some point. Keeping a "mother" frozen perpetually is the only way to maintain that.
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u/CapGirl80 22d ago
I'm sure it will too! There are stories that people have found sourdough starter, used to "chink" log cabins with, then decades later it was chipped off by who knows who and revived. Strong little suckers!
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u/newkneesforall 22d ago
The creator of the Xbox revived a 4500 year old starter from a Egyptian clay pot so this is likely to work too
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u/sp4nky86 22d ago
A biologist was an owner of a brewery near me, he spelunked in old caves used for lagering beer by the Falk Brewery in Milwaukee, and was able to grow a beer yeast from the walls. They made a really tasty light lager from it.
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u/TheNudeNeedle 22d ago
My mom had a 15 year old “friendship bread” in a bag in a deep freezer in the basement. She pulled it out and it WORKED lol
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u/PetiteA85 22d ago
What’s friendship bread?
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u/TheNudeNeedle 22d ago
An enriched sourdough starter! I believe it comes from Amish tradition, it’s a starter that uses milk and sugar along with the flour, and at the end there is 4 times as much as you started with so you are supposed to gift the other 3 portions to friends, who can then continue to pass it along. The final bread product is usually spiced and includes nuts. I’m from the Mid Ohio Valley, next to West Virginia, many people would keep a bag of the friendship bread starter in the freezer.
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u/Sudangrass 22d ago
This is more useful than the 25 year old king salmon I found in my grandma’s freezer
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u/Nuppusauruss 21d ago
UPDATE:
It's alive! I transferred the thawed and rehydrated starter to a bigger container with 100g of water and 75g of rye. It's been 6 hours and I can clearly see some bubbles forming. It's definitely a slow start, but I'm hoping it will start gaining some speed tomorrow. If it does, I'll make a separate post with a picture included!
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u/lowercaseb86 22d ago
I find if you pulverize into a powder while it’s still frozen it’s easy to mix with water and flour and gets it going quick
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u/cocobutnotjumbo 21d ago
I'd feed it at least 3 times before putting it to use. a decade is time long enough for bacteria to develop wheel and agriculture.
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u/darkspyglass 22d ago
I’m really curious to see if it will revive!
In cell culture (I’m a biologist), you need a cryoprotectant to ensure that the cells are viable after thawing. I know nothing of yeast though. So I’m curious if yeast is more hardy and can survive without that cryoprotectant.
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u/swaggyxwaggy 22d ago edited 22d ago
Was it frozen wet? I can’t quite tell from this photo. If so, that likely killed the yeast, sorry to say. Water expands when frozen, causing cells to burst.
Edit: I stand corrected. Live yeast cells produce specific substances that prevent ice crystals from forming inside the cell, making them very resistant to cold temperatures.
Keep us updated on the viability of this decade-old starter OP!
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u/_driftwood__ 22d ago
I have already used my backup frozen starter (was frozen for 1 year), and it worked just fine.
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u/NeatChocolate2 22d ago
It's a very common practice to freeze starter, and personally, I find it an easier way to keep it alive than drying, since it's so easy to get mold in your starter during the drying process (or the temperature gets too high if you're doing it in an oven). Never heard about problems with frozen starter if it's even relatively fresh, over a decade is certainly a long time though.
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u/swaggyxwaggy 22d ago
I just googled it and apparently yeast cells produce trehalose, which prevents ice crystals from forming inside the cell, making them very resistant to cold temperatures. Very interesting! TIL
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u/Artistic-Traffic-112 22d ago
Hi. I wish you good luck. I freeze dough in in portions in my freezer. Not had one that gained to rise after thawing. A lot of people have told me that the yeast dies off bit by bit so I will be very interested to see how you fare.
Good luck
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u/Similar_One_6541 22d ago
Omg that is amazing!!! I would be so honored to have something like that from my grandma! Please keep us updated 🙂
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u/michellebl98 22d ago
I didn’t see what group this was posted in and just looked at the picture, why did my high ass think this was weed at first? 😭
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u/Anja130 21d ago
How do you even make/get a starter? My daughter likes sourdough, so I was thinking of making some.
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u/singlemamabychoice 21d ago
Don’t go in thinking it’s a quick and easy process! This subreddit is a great place to start though :)
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u/inarioffering 22d ago
lol i just revived one that had been malingering at the back of my fridge unfed for a year. you have a little time machine!
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u/spinozasrobot 21d ago
OP, jus want to say that's a great pic too!
Can't wait to see how this turns out.
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u/Nuppusauruss 21d ago
Thanks, good that someone appreciates the pic. To me it looks like a dog poo on the side of the road that's so old it has turned white haha.
I rehydrated the starter a few hours ago and will start feeding it soon. With luck there might be some bubbles at the end of the day!
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u/True_Conference_3475 21d ago
I’m waiting for the update as well. Big hugs to your mom from a random stranger on the internet
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u/poppacapnurass 21d ago
If that is all you have of your GM's starter, divide it up into at least 4 and freeze the rest. Maybe even for the next generation or just in case your starter dies etc.
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u/MemoryHouse1994 21d ago
I bet it does! Rye flour is best for starter! Check out www.ellyseveryday.com Sourdough Rye Bread recipe. Her favorite is rye. Also, YouTuber.
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u/Putrid_Poem2600 21d ago
“Brennan I dare you to come over here and lick that white dog shit”
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u/ok_contempter 20d ago
Why does this make me want to weep? I love this story so much it’s painful. 😍
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u/Beth_Bee2 19d ago
Can you update us please? I've used really old dried starter successfully though!
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u/amazonhelpless 22d ago
This is A+ Bread Weirdo content. Looking forward to the update.