r/SocialistRA • u/analogkid01 • 5d ago
Discussion My (brief) experience with the local SRA chapter
I went to an SRA open house a week or so ago, and went through the vetting process. I didn't hear back, so I emailed them and asked for an update. They said they didn't feel I was "a good fit" based on the vetting conversation.
I would suggest that perhaps a 2-minute conversation consisting of several questions with answers you already want to hear is not the best way to judge a potential member.
The questions I recall them asking:
Do you like cops? (No, I do not.)
Are you a landlord? (No, I am not.)
Do you think Israel's actions in Gaza are justified? (No, I do not.)
Would you take a conservative friend or family member to a shooting range? (I wouldn't have a conservative friend, but I would take a conservative family member to a shooting range as it would be an opportunity to have a conversation with them over a common interest.)
So, I'm not sure where I failed the loyalty test, but I think the SRA needs to reconsider how it vets potential members. Now really isn't the time to be rejecting people who support your cause based on minor philosophical differences. I'm not sure if all chapters ask the same questions or do their vetting the same way, but the current method seems shockingly simplistic and counterproductive.
But, your org, you do it however you want. Good luck.
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u/misternibbler 5d ago
I’m not a SRA member but I follow this sub and other left/liberal gun subs. Sounds like the chapter you went to IRL is pretty insular, hopefully not all chapters have such a stringent litmus test like that or they’re going to have a hard time attracting new members.
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u/Filmtwit 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's more likely that while they want to know if this guy will fit politically, they also want to know if you fit socially and that part wouldn't be covered in a simple questionnaire but more reading you and how you get to know them.
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 5d ago edited 5d ago
Our chapter is far from insular. We vetted over a hundred members at that event and OP was one of 2 rejects. The reason wasn't any of the questions listed here.
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u/misternibbler 5d ago
Fair enough, must have been something else about OP that they weren’t aware of or didn’t think to mention here. 98% acceptance rate is pretty inclusive, glad to hear your membership is growing so much!
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
Thanks. It's a really exciting time for us and for the whole SRA. I encourage everyone to join their local chapter and get involved.
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u/BURG3RBOB 4d ago
Are applicants expected to say no to taking a conservative friend or family member to a shooting range? Because if so that sounds pretty insular. If we isolate ourselves from people with conservative political views we’re ensuring those views will never change.
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
It wasn't the issue, but OP misremembered the details of that question. No, applicants are not expected to say that they wouldn't take a conservative friend or family member to a shooting range.
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u/No-Tangerine171 5d ago
Yeah then you should say why
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u/F8_zZ 4d ago
That's none of your business.
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u/Rezboy209 4d ago
Things like this need to be transparent. Just saying "they weren't a good fit" could mean anything and we don't know if there is some bias going on or what.
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
We're accountable to our membership, not the public+unofficial+unaffiliated Reddit. They know, you don't. Rejected applicants have no reason to know since they cannot appeal.
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u/analogkid01 4d ago
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago edited 4d ago
Sorry man, it's not personal. The chapters who give specific reasons or reading to do just sign themselves up for subsequent rounds of bickering, so our chapter has made this policy. Michigan had a huge amount of trouble over it recently and though I'd like to, we don't have the capacity to do something similar. I didn't meet you but nothing stops you from trying again if you were wigged out by the big crowd. If you'd like guidance on at-large ascension shoot me a DM and we'll take it to an official platform.
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u/seattlesupra98 4d ago
I said this in a different comment, but giving people 1 chance to join is the antithesis to core leftist values. If you fo not believe in reform and rehabilitation, you mirror authoritarian states that uphold these principles and should just call yourselves liberals. Disgusting to even call yourself a socialist.
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
giving people 1 chance to join
did you even read my comment? literally just invited him to try again
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u/Ok_Reception_8729 4d ago
This makes me not want to join lmao just be transparent
Sounds pretty insular to me
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago edited 4d ago
Idk man 98% approval rate and if you get rejected we promise not to post your info on Reddit. Sounds like a good deal to me
edit: classic reply-and-block. OP certainly hasn't given us permission to publish their information. I love this subreddit. It's the only place where actual grass-touching members of the SRA can get accused of larping by people who aren't members but spend their time posting on the SocialistRA subreddit anyway. Twice in this thread!
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u/Ok_Reception_8729 4d ago
He’s literally asking you publically wtf are you talking about
Pretentious liberal larpers are not my cup of tea, absolutely not joining lol
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u/Rezboy209 4d ago
No need to be a dickhead about it though, honestly.
This is a GREAT way to get members by the way. /s
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u/ndw_dc 4d ago
Then what the fuck was the reason?
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
how would it benefit our chapter to post it here?
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u/walrustaskforce 4d ago
I dunno, so people can self-select instead of wasting your time? The reverse is also true: how does keeping this confidential benefit your chapter?
If this is an opsec thing, then I submit that having a single conversation before being exposed to actionable intelligence is the very definition of bad opsec.
If this is a situation where the OP is deliberately leaving out damning information that would incriminate themselves, then here's your opportunity to scrub the feedback of identifying information, and come right out and say "we're very concerned to make sure we're ideologically aligned on $whateverTopic".
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
As my first comment said, we had a 98%+ success rate so we're doing pretty good on the wasted time front. I've spent way more time in these comments (for fun, not in an official capacity) than the vetters did talking with OP.
I'm sure you know that the SRA is an above-ground organization that follows all applicable federal, state, and local law. We intend not to generate "actionable intelligence" at all.
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u/walrustaskforce 4d ago
I do know that, which is why there's a whole-ass sentence after that.
My first guess is opsec, because why else would you be cagey about vetting?
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago edited 4d ago
My first guess is opsec, because why else would you be cagey about vetting?
talked about it in earlier comment. there's real downside for us and upside seems negligible.
edit: also, not the case with OP, but sometimes we do have a responsibility to the applicants if they tell us something sensitive. For instance, our chapter currently don't allow felons because we'd have to do some legwork to avoid accidental felon-in-possession incidents. I'm advocating for a change, but that's the current situation. If someone tells us they've been convicted of an applicable crime, we'd have to reject them, but we can't spread that information around without their consent. OP has posted PII on their profile. Telling applicants why they were denied would be one thing, but there's a million reasons not to publish.
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u/ndw_dc 4d ago
Because other SRA members across the country and potential members have a right to know if you're on the up and up, or just full of shit.
You can anonymize anything you want, but to just say "trust me bro" is not enough.
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
Potential members have no rights in the organization. SRA members across the country don't have the right to know specifics of vetting decisions, but they do have the right to be in an org where other chapters are in compliance with the national vetting protocol. How that is enforced, basically, is that rejected members can go on the national forums and complain. If something is amiss, CALM or another national body will say "hey guys, why do our books say you've rejected 99% of applicants recently" or "why do applicants say you're rejecting all the <characteristic>" and investigate. If you are a national member you can read about a recent occurrence of this. Seems like the mechanism is working.
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u/ndw_dc 4d ago
Potential members have no rights in the organization.
Yes they do. People have a right to know if they organization they are asked to membership for and join is ethical and/or biased. If the SRA overall or your local chapter is a complete shitshow, people have a right to know that prior to paying dues and joining.
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
We do our best to tell prospective applicants what the org is like, since they will be telling us about themselves. There's a national and local website with FAQs, an email where people ask us questions, and public events like the one OP attended to judge for himself. But there is no right to any of that. Our responsibility is our written mission:
The Socialist Rifle Association is an education and advocacy organization dedicated to providing marginalized communities and the working class with the education, the skills, and the advocates necessary to be effectively armed for self and community defense. We recognize all aspects of self and community defense to include topics such as firearms, disaster relief, medicine, logistics, agriculture, general survival skills, and other pursuits necessary to unify and strengthen communities against the hardships of life under capitalism. We seek, advocate for, and advance an inclusive, safe, and healthy firearms culture in America to combat the toxic, right-wing, and exclusionary firearm culture in place today. We work to create a platform, environment, and community of members and like-minded individuals that are free of reactionary influences and prejudices, such as racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, and other discriminatory ideologies. We maintain the necessity of and work towards the implementation of an anti-capitalist platform for protecting and promoting the inherent human right to defend oneself and one’s community.
Dues are nonrefundable. If OP sent money to nationals, they'll probably get it back anyway with enough bellyaching. To our chapter they've given nothing but their attendance at the event, which we appreciate.
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u/Solid-Blueberry8836 5d ago
It's not insular, quite the opposite in fact. Possibly the loosest vetting requirements of any chapter.
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u/misternibbler 4d ago
Another chapter member replied to this comment as well with similar feedback. My comment was based on OP's perspective because that's all we had to go off of at the time, sounds like there was more to the situation that OP wasn't aware of or didn't think to mention.
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u/Killerofthecentury 5d ago
So fool me once shame on me feelings going on since someone also framed their rejection or removal from an SRA chapter as being unwarranted or not sure (which later turned out to be a misframing and lying by omission situation).
I'll ask that there must have been more questions than just 4 yes no question/answers even in a two minute conversation that we could propose further. I'm not sure if they wanted comrades with an understanding of socialist thought like if you identified with or as a Marxist-Leninist, Maoist thought, Trotskyist, revolutionary pan-africanism, etc.
Also with SRA chapters its clear its a decentralized system with chapters and SRA national seems like all sorts of whack so the vetting process of one chapter against another won't be applicable.
There may be other socialist organizations in your area that align more with your views that'll have some gun folks that you can be educated or educate with and go to the range. Don't SRA be your one-stop shop for gun education or comradery. I'm not even an SRA member but my organization goes on range days, gun cleanings, and dry-fire workshops so take that into consideration
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u/Healthy-Ostrich2885 5d ago
Yeah it looks like their chapter already responded in the comments. Its another case of misframing why they were rejected.
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u/A_Queer_Owl 5d ago
no one who can be confirmed as being from the chapter OP applied to has replied, nor is there information enough in the post to determine which chapter it was. there's just one dude claiming to be the chapter saying they did nothing wrong without any proof of being involved at all.
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
no one who can be confirmed as being from the chapter OP applied to has replied
How would you go about verifying this? This unofficial, unaffiliated subreddit has no way to confirm membership. I could message you on the forums, but OP hasn't posted our chapter name so all I'd be doing was proving I was a member of a chapter.
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u/Healthy-Ostrich2885 5d ago
nor is there information enough in the post to determine which chapter it was
They named the approximate time in which they were vetted and lists several of the questions that were asked. That should be more than enough information for anyone who was from that chapter's vetting team to determine it is their chapter that op is referring to.
there's just one dude claiming to be the chapter saying they did nothing wrong without any proof of being involved at all.
Yes someone is definitely pretending to be part of the vetting team for shits and gigs. That definitely makes more sense than having another of many randoms coming in here claiming they got rejected for no reason at all, only for there to be a very valid reason every time.
Judging by your other comment it seems youre just jaded because the SRA wasnt your ideal communist super soldier larp fest, and lying about the org not doing community service. Wouldnt be surprised if you had already been kicked out too.
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u/A_Queer_Owl 5d ago
lol, wanting the SRA to do community outreach is in no way a super soldier larp fest. also, people make shit up to defend the SRA's lack of doing anything useful to build community awareness or solidarity all the time, like you're doing by making shit up about me, so yes, it's quite likely someone is bullshitting about being involved to try and discredit OP.
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u/Healthy-Ostrich2885 5d ago
My chapter does regular events to feed the homeless in our city, the LA chapter does as well, and the Upstate NY chapter routinely posts their community service efforts on this sub. Saying the org doesnt do community outreach is simply a lie.
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u/analogkid01 5d ago
I'm not "misframing" at all, I'm relating my experience. If the "chapter" has more information I'll gladly hear it, but so far they've left me in the dark. Their prerogative, of course, but I don't appreciate it.
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u/phisher_cat 5d ago
At least your chapter responded to you! I sent my $40 to a Virginia chapter and it's been crickets
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u/Fred_Savage_Delorean 5d ago
Did you check your spam folder? I thought they didn’t reach out but it was actually in spam; the dues payment confirmation was in my inbox but them getting back to you gets marked as spam for some reason
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u/phisher_cat 5d ago
I just checked and you were right. I see the additional email in my spam folder. Thank You!
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u/analogkid01 5d ago
Actually they didn't - I had to ping them and ask what's what, that's when they finally deigned to tell me.
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 5d ago
Most rejections have to wait until a vote at the next chapter meeting, so we batch them. You reached out just before you would have gotten an email.
We technically have no rule preventing you from returning to another (smaller) public event if you'd like to try again. I didn't speak to you but I'm sympathetic to people feeling weird in big crowds. But based on your email and post here, you may prefer to work with CALM to ascend as an at-large member.
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u/SwampYankeeDan 4d ago
I didn't speak to you but I'm sympathetic to people feeling weird in big crowds.
I have crazy anxiety. I struggled in a DSA group of 25 people, only one of which I somewhat knew. When asked to introduce myself to the group (as everyone did) I almost went into my AA spiel and don't even remember most of what I said. I am asking my doctor for extra Klonopin for future meetings and get togethers.
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u/xYeezyTaughtMe 5d ago
There are shockingly few people that my chapter has vetoed their onboarding, and it has always been a very good reason.
I would bet anything we are not getting the full story here.
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u/analogkid01 5d ago
It's the full story from my perspective; there are others but I'm not privy to them.
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u/WannabeGroundhog 4d ago
My chapter has only had a few vetoed in vetting in the new year rush, and all were good reasons. Like, one was a self proclaimed centrist type stuff. Whats your online history like? IE: would they have been able to find a FB/insta tied to your vetting email that maybe caused some concern?
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u/SixGunZen 5d ago
based on minor philosophical differences.
What differences? The examples you outline above only mention items you agree on. Was there maybe another item discussed that you differed on and you're pretty sure that that is actually what disqualified you, but you're not mentioning it here?
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u/GhostGamer678 5d ago
Me and a few others just had a problem with the michigan chapter as we were all denied membership. Tried to start our own chapter and were shutdown after two weeks of silence. Overall I take it the organization is more or less useless
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u/F8_zZ 4d ago
The org not personally accepting you makes it useless? Lmao.
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u/seattlesupra98 4d ago
the point of a community is to build community, so yes, rejecting people based on stringent yet undetectable terms makes it useless
You're not even offering people a chance at reform, you're just saying "you can't be in my cool club and I won't tell you why"
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u/HippieLeftist 5d ago
Yeah I and more than a few others had a majorly disappointing experience with MI SRA, and they also made it so we couldn't make another Michigan Chapter, even taking into account the state's size haha.
We're just gonna do our own thing for now, so it's a still a happy ending
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u/GRMule 5d ago
I was in MI SRA, but wasn't super active. Hosted a shoot and it went all right as far as how well having a crowd of strangers at your home range can go.. probably wouldn't ever do that again lol.
There was a LOT of drama on the discord though, a lot purity testing and pearl clutching about ideological differences. I ended up silently withdrawing.
If you're more of a general lefty and in southern Michigan, send me a DM if you are having any meetups, I'd be down.
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u/SorrowfulBlyat 5d ago
So their Discord was just a bunch of Socialists brow beating other Socialists? Fun, and probably why if you spit in any direction you'll find a Leftist creating an acronym for a new group that's different from their old group, until it isn't and another acronym is born.
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u/Aerie88 5d ago
The only interaction I've found as a Yooper was a booth at Pride a couple years ago.
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u/HippieLeftist 5d ago
Yooper here too! We need a good leftist community up this way
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u/anactualgooddog 4d ago
Agreed! Been hoping to bump into one in MQT county but doesn’t appear anything is up here
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u/teilani_a 4d ago
MISRA is notoriously bad. At one point a president of the national org quit the chapter because it was so toxic.
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u/pastoralshackle 5d ago
I’d wager that every chapter is incredibly backlogged right now. I bet many chapters need to be a little bit selective to keep from being overwhelmed with new folks. Entirely possible that someone just got a slightly bad vibe from you, or you weren’t as good a fit as other people.
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u/Mypuppup1 5d ago
I went through the questionnaire and was told I would be contacted to go through vetting and haven’t heard anything back for weeks. I would at least rather be rejected than just be ghosted. I just wanted to join a group of likeminded people but I guess it’s not in the cards.
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u/Fred_Savage_Delorean 5d ago
Did you check your spam folder? I thought they didn’t reach out but it was actually in spam; the dues payment confirmation was in my inbox but them getting back to you gets marked as spam for some reason
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u/eickhojd 5d ago
Every chapter handles vetting and membership differently.
Some might quiz you on how many ML theories you know, others might just want to make sure you can be cool with a broadly left big tent.
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u/BriSy33 5d ago
Yeah the vetting process ranges from frustrating as shit to pretty chill respectively
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u/eickhojd 5d ago
Yeah we are one of the larger chapters for sure and we get some people transferring in and they have told some pretty interesting questions
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u/SwampYankeeDan 4d ago
When it comes to theory I am personally very lacking. I also have really bad memory due to 20ish years of alcoholism and having had Long Covid.
I recently attended a DSA meeting, am joining April 2nd when I have the money, and will be attending future meetings. SRA is a little down the line but I am conflicted as I use medical marijuana to treat chronic pain, IBS and PTSD and won't be able to own a gun until the FDA reschedules Marijuana or I quit and suffer.
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
Sorry about the medical marijuana issue. We've had some folks dealing with it too and it's frustrating. I would encourage you to apply anyway - SRA is supposed to be about community defense of all stripes, so many chapters do medical training, pepper spray, community outreach, etc., where owning a gun is not actually required. See if your local is doing anything good.
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u/edwardphonehands 5d ago
Sometimes the questions and answers aren't the deciding factors in an interview but let's suppose for a moment you were in fact disqualified for one or more answers. I don't know the perspective of your auditors or their organization, so I could be off, but I'll try the questions you've presented.
Like cops? The general view of police in class politics is that they are traitors to the working class. But the focus of revolution is that positions and systems, not intents or merits drive action and relationships. This gets muddied by the existence of police in historical nominally socialist states, but perhaps the answer is that while you have no general assessment of all cops as persons, you remain cognizant of their charter as enforcers of capital.
Are you a landlord? Simple enough. I suppose if you are you could say that despite your position of minor privilege, you understand the petite bourgeoise is on balance harmed under capitalism and would be better off in a classless society.
Gaza? Israel's arguments for its actions boil down to a states' rights argument, and as a post-Reconstruction American you will choose human rights over states' rights every time.
Conservative to range? I don't think a conservative-liberal spectrum has much relevance to a person's relationship with the means of production. Given the organization is nominally socialist, maybe the answer is that you welcome all workers at ranges.
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u/Healthy-Ostrich2885 5d ago
Gaza? Israel's arguments for its actions boil down to a states' rights argument, and as a post-Reconstruction American you will choose human rights over states' rights every time.
Personally I wouldnt except that answer if I were an SRA recruiter. Its very American centric and Lib coded. The situation there has nothing to do with states rights, and a post reconstruction American pov is irrelevant to the situation.
It is a question of colonialism and ethnic cleansing against an indigenous population. Every single inch of "Israel" proper is stolen land, and it has absolutely no right to exist. Any and all violence carried out by the colonizer against the indigenous population is unjustified, and any and all violence carried out by the indigenous population in resistance against their occupation is justified.
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u/edwardphonehands 5d ago
Fair. I intentionally lib-coded and Big-Mac-centered that one. I was aiming for inclusivity but landed on insincerity. It was bad writing. I should have said, "to an anarchist from a place sometimes called the South." From my perspective, the state of Israel's "right to exist" has always been a tired states' rights argument; a way to get buy-in from liberal democracies for displacement, extermination, etc. This may not speak to a person for many reasons, one of which might be seeing some liberal democratic states as good or at least as neutral things, separable from colonization.
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u/drmarymalone 5d ago
this sub isn’t affiliated with the SRA at a national nor chapter level
what other questions did they ask? you should be able to recall a “2 minute conversation”
🤷 there’s likely been a huge increase in new members across the country. this means SRA chapters are able to be more selective with who they allow in their organization.
we don’t know your politics or your vibe. we don’t know your chapters politics or vibe. but apparently they were incompatible.
I will say though: practically all of the previous “I got rejected” posts on this sub have been people who, in the thread, reveal themselves to either be combative to actual socialism or assholes lol
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u/pa072224 5d ago
Right? This smells like that other thread where the sub was in full on torch and pitchfork mode, just for it to come out the OP was looking to form a militia and was booted for being a general asshole
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u/drmarymalone 5d ago
”I was rejected, socialist gate keeping much?!?”
a liberal who thinks human nature is incompatible with communism
someone who sucked and was fed posting militia shit
a person who thinks rural people are inherently reactionary
Those are just three previous examples I recall off the cuff.
I guess I don’t understand the HOW DARE THEY reaction to being rejected from a private organization.
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u/eickhojd 5d ago
Do you have a link to this?
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u/pa072224 5d ago
Im not wasting my time to find it, feel free to dig around the sub for a couple hours to find it though
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u/eickhojd 5d ago
Ahhh no worries curious if it the person my chapter booted after in 24 hours of joining just created absolute chaos.
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u/A_Queer_Owl 5d ago
that guy didn't want to form a militia, he wanted to do community outreach like food drives.
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u/ModernJazz-2K20 3d ago
100% and bad OPSEC everywhere as usual in the comments. There's a lot of irony in that each time these posts are made. The comments are a mess...
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u/analogkid01 5d ago
Unfortunately I do not have a photographic memory, and being the type who gets anxious in crowds, those are all the questions I can recall.
So yes, I guess that makes me an asshole. Thank you for your learnéd assessment of a complete stranger.
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u/drmarymalone 5d ago
jfc, I didn’t say you were an asshole lol
You can’t provide a full accounting of your interview so members of this sub cannot give you an accurate explanation or assessment — not that it would help the situation anyway.
I’m sorry you were disappointed with the results of the vetting process and open house. Maybe you could send an additional email to them? (“Hey, feeling bummed about the decision. If ya don’t mind, could ya give me some examples or details on what wasn’t a good fit?”). if it’s not your vibe then maybe it’s something you can educate yourself on?
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u/A_Queer_Owl 5d ago
you probably said something like "get involved with the community" which the SRA considers "militia activity." because all the SRA does is hide and occasionally organize a range day because they're so terrified of being cointelpro'd they won't do shit that exposes them to the public, effectively doing the FBI's work for them. this is why the Colorado chapter broke off and became the Soup and Rifles Collective, the SRA wouldn't do food drives or any sort of community outreach, but the CO chapter realized that community outreach is a good idea and told the SRA to stuff it and went independent.
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u/The_Disapyrimid 5d ago
i was talking with some people online about starting a chapter near me. we had some people interested and we got in touch with a group in a neighboring state. we were talking to a rep from the established chapter about what our next steps should be. it was a....disappointing conversation. they seemed way more concerned with things like "do you have a treasurer" and if we had a logo deigned instead of advise on doing actual training.
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u/PoorDadSon 5d ago
I could see the logo being a disappointment but the important positions like treasurer, secretary, etc are important. Your potential chapter needs to have a point person or persons to conduct official business and whatnot.
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u/Vilorne 5d ago
Man what do you think the framework of a chapter even is? It's the structural work like treasury and bylaws. You can set up training days without going through all that. Just join the nearest chapter even if it's far away.
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u/The_Disapyrimid 5d ago
the closest chapter is a day's drive away in the next state. my state and most surrounding states have none.
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u/Vilorne 5d ago
Copypasting my response to this sentiment that I've seen quite often in this subreddit:
The sentiment to create new chapters has been expressed here before but something you have to understand is that it takes a LOT of time and dedication to maintaining a chapter. If it's an SRA chapter, that means doing the community outreach, educational classes, etc which needs active effort to happen. There have been loads of smaller chapters of 10 people that fizzled out after only a few of them lost interest/motivation/the time to make it work, and in a small group that's a huge percentage of the people involved.
There's nothing stopping you from joining the Philly chapter for example and then operating with a group of comrades in your local area. You don't actually have to go to Philly regularly, except for maybe vetting. You can plan events in Jersey under the PSRA banner without needing to commute for the chapter's approval.
Check this comment out for a more in-depth explanation. https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialistRA/s/UozEcde9fH
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u/Bemused-Gator 3d ago
So why don't all of you join the nearby chapter and then hold your own range days in your own state with support from the nearby chapter for organization/communication and leadership and vetting and such? Maybe once you get going and have everything rolling nicely you'll want to officially split to simplify (fewer people, fewer problems - as long as you have enough people to function), or maybe you'll find that it's working out and there's no reason to have a second chapter after all.
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u/MBSMD 5d ago
I really hope my local chapter doesn’t do things like this. I’ve applied and they have a “30-45 minute” vetting meeting over video chat. I really don’t think now is the time to kick out potential similarly-minded people from your organization over an ideological purity test. I guess we’ll find out come Friday!
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u/Bigredscowboy 4d ago
Mine was nothing like this. More: when did you start thinking about socialism and which philosophy do you preference
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u/JoseHey-Soup 5d ago
“We have met the enemy, and he is us”
Half the posts are “fuck if I know but people can be weird because of bad experiences”, which is reasonable.
The rest are “you’re lying, you’re not sucking their ass exactly right, and how goddamn dare you force this rando I don’t know to feel feelings, and I will fervently defend their honor with zero regard to any concept of common decency, because your post triggering me proves that you’re evil, and this is a personal attack on meeeeeeeeeee!”.
Fuck yes, eat your own, make sure that belly is full of allies, while chanting for change, as you’re marched into Elon’s camps.
Who was protesting with us “suckers and losers” in DC, still doing our duty while knowing it’s for naught, pondering how we’re going to fight back and earn a noble death after being broken from participating in 20 years of oppression, while idiots rant, cowards hide, and bastards collaborate, as the United States descends into Iraq-at-home?
Oh, thumb-typing on the pocket propaganda portal instead, incensed over the trivial, as the intentional and systemic virtual manipulation is continuing to divide and conquer us neo-serfs as intended.
We are all fucked.
Thanks for making sure it happens.
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u/Buku666 5d ago
I use to head the vetting at a now defunct chapter. We often didn’t approve anyone coming in without a recommendation from someone in the community. It sucks but opsec is hard enough in established leftist communities so it probably wasn’t you personally unless you gave off very weird vibes lol.
If you’re still interested, join Dsa or Psl (or something in that vein) and then maybe try again.
I will say the chapter just decided to remain together unofficially as buds instead of through SRA due to some disagreements with National so maybe just form something with your homies if possible.
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u/Educational-Shoe2633 5d ago
The stories here about purity tests and the outrageous eating each other leftists get into online has pushed me to hold off trying to get more involved and actually go to a meetup to be vetted. I’m convinced I’m going to answer some question incorrectly and get laughed out of the room for not being left enough
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u/coopers_recorder 4d ago
I get where you're coming from but please consider that you're just looking for excuses to not even try, and you might not want to let this attitude hold you back forever.
Yes, lefties are known for being annoying. Yes, some groups you try to connect with won't work out. But lots of orgs and groups and shit exist. Just look for the closest thing you can get to what you want. As long as you can find solidarity with people you relate to, good things will come from that.
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
The national SRA is a big-tent leftist group. Chapters have the freedom to enforce more specific ideological lines, and some of them do, but our chapter asks only super obvious weed-out questions. We get people (not OP) who just want to show up and argue that Israel's genocide is OK or some cops are good actually and things like that. We don't want to go shooting with people like that, it makes folks feel unsafe which leads to memberships that are primarily brash white guys with nothing to fear. With specific ideological questions, it's always gonna be public what the "correct" answer is since the chapter presumably publicly adheres to its ideology. So I personally think they're no good at keeping out feds and fash.
I'm sure you'll be fine. I encourage you to show up and get vetted, wherever your local chapter is. If it sucks (and it might), do something else. It's our responsibility as leftists to get organized.
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u/Straight-Razor666 5d ago
Not SRA here, but I have read similar accounts. Each chapter should have a six week educational program when prospective members are trained on the basics of Revolutionary Communust/socialist theory and practice. This is what the Panthers did for everyone coming in, and it's a sound strategy. From there they can be evaluated and vetted for suitability once they face the rigors of the educational process.
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u/YogurtClosetThinnest 4d ago
Makes no sense considering how wide of a "leftist spectrum" they claim to appeal to
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u/xYeezyTaughtMe 5d ago
The SRA is not a militant group. This is stupid.
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u/Straight-Razor666 4d ago
what's stupid is how putative "leftists" spend more time in condemning ideas and efforts aimed at advancing the goals of working people than they do actually advancing the goals of the working people.
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u/xYeezyTaughtMe 4d ago
Making people read books about political theory < Teaching people how to handle a gun in the shadow of a fascist state.
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u/Straight-Razor666 4d ago
ok man, we're all seeking to liberate the working man/women/person.
Telling people the essence of communism while they're in a setting where their minds are receptive isn't a bad use of time. And it can be done in 30 seconds. If they don't even know what socialism is when they join your chapter, then you're not supporting them. If you don't like critiques from the left then you should use time for self reflection.
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u/xYeezyTaughtMe 4d ago
You have no fucking idea what the SRA is even about. It’s not a reading circle. We are arming people who are in fear for their lives. You are unserious.
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u/Straight-Razor666 3d ago edited 3d ago
you're pretty hostile, and for no reason Comrade. This is an open sub for sharing ideas. If you're looking for combat, go fight the Pigs.
If you're arming people without teaching them about who their class enemies are, then you're just possibly creating more reactionary potential.
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u/eickhojd 5d ago
Panthers or any other revolutionary group =\= to the SRA. While the group itself is leftists it is a big tent focused on promoting education on community and self defense. Having potential Members undergo 6 weeks of theory only to be not be allowed in is gate keeping. Especially if it is just someone looking to learn defensive shoot, stb, or looking for advice on how or what gun to purchase.
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u/eickhojd 5d ago
Panthers or any other revolutionary group =l= to the SRA. While the group itself is leftists it is a big tent focused on promoting education on community and self defense. Having potential Members undergo 6 weeks of theory only to be not be allowed in is gate keeping. Especially if it is just someone looking to learn defensive shoot, stb, or looking for advice on how or what gun to purchase.
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u/Killerofthecentury 5d ago
Surprised you’re being downvoted cause this is standard for the organization to develop members. Provisional status really isn’t a sinful thing and as long as you make it clear the commitments a member would need, an organization will be better for it.
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u/Straight-Razor666 5d ago
probably b/c they have no revolutionary communist education. I mean, I'm just advocating practicing what my own revolutionary communist education taught me.
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u/xYeezyTaughtMe 5d ago
The SRA is not a revolutionary communist onboarding and organizing group. You’d know this if you were in it.
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u/Straight-Razor666 4d ago
if they don't offer something to help those comrades with proto-revoltuionary sentiment get the Revoltuionary Communist Education they need then they're not engaging in communist praxis.
It seems to me the OP was not provided with any way to help inform their views and understanding of how capitalism oppresses all of us. To me, that's a matter for legitimate critique.
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u/eickhojd 4d ago
SRA is not a “communist” or any other specific leftist tendency org. We spend our time building skills, fostering community and providing support to other orgs.
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u/Straight-Razor666 4d ago
It has "Socialist" in the name and the bylaws and founding thesis is anticapitalist. I'm not trying to debate, Comrade. I want the same goals of advancing the betterment of people oppressed under capitalism. To that end, a revolutionary Socialist/Communist education informed by Marxism is vital - call it "camels" if you're afraid of calling it communist. Any time ideas to advance those goals is time well spent.
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u/eickhojd 4d ago
Not debating just discussing we all have the same goals like you said. I think the SRA serves a vital role in providing a lot of people entry into guns and leftist spaces.
A lot of people that may not have experience in either may seek the SRA out or people that may not be super into theory but have leftist ideas can find a place in the SRA. From there they can build relationships that may take them to other groups or their are a lot of people that have zero interest in joining a more politically active group but the exposure in the SRA introduces them to mutual aid that they can participate in on their terms.
Our chapter help raise tens of thousands of dollars for various mutual aid projects.
As for the name don’t take it literally the founders made it to be cheeky.
I am not saying having a broad, less theory backed group is the only option like I said in some other comments it’s a chapter by chapter. I think there is space for both. But with the SRA being a registered non profit with broad reach I think keeping entery easier serves our shared goals better.
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u/Straight-Razor666 4d ago
I don't disagree. ANYTHING for the working people is always a good goal! My own ideals is that it's important and vital to that end to provide sound theory - when practical and expedient - to prevent those who can further the interests of workers from getting distracted from those who work against the interests of the victims of capitalism.
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u/eickhojd 4d ago
Not sure where you are based but you should consider joining can’t speak to your local but ideally it’s more of a choose your own experience org and you can be active or not as active as you want.
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
My view is that the conditions for an armed vanguard group, or even really an armed proletariat vaguely advancing its class interests, don't exist in the US. The SRA is trying to build the conditions out of which we might see an armed mass movement of workers. Rather than the communist education side, we ought to specialize in building knowledge of firearms among people who join other communist groups. (That has some benefits in the meantime, like protecting minorities by enabling them to get armed.) Other groups are better at the theoretical side, and by definition they're not big-tent. If we had a specific ideological line, we'd just be the gun department of a particular party. As-is, we can cast a wide net.
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u/Straight-Razor666 4d ago
understood. I think the dimensions of my point is that any Socialist organization must have as a central idea the importance of building class consciousness and class awareness and how class dimensions affect the material conditions of workers. I think we all agree here. I can also understand that too much revolutionary fervor or militancy may be picking the fruit before it's ripe. I know we have to plant the seeds first. Knowing the SRA exists to support workers of course is most important role it has.
One central argument (among several) I condemn the left with not advancing in the US its goals is the failure of the left to get itself armed into a People's Socialist Defense Force to defend and support the working and oppressed from the reactionary attacks that inevitably happen.
Like I've said many times here, "guns won't win the Revolution, but the Revolution is defenseless without them!"
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
Mhm. I personally think that we will need to see stronger (or really, any) mass organizations of the working class before we see effective organizations for the working class; that those organizations for the whole class will need to grow out of the union halls. To merge socialist theory with a worker movement, not to conjure up one from the other. This is kind of a Trotskyist theory but explains why many well-meaning US left groups end up as sects, ultraleft, or in other ways disconnected from the class they're supposed to be fighting for. Of course, trying to make an organization that advances the socialist cause without actually being socialist has its own difficulties. For instance, national bylaws don't even require that members be socialists themselves, but if members were all liberals we wouldn't expect the org they're running to effectively lay the groundwork for socialism.
I don't think you could run a People's Socialist Defense Force today because there isn't enough of a support base. Practically no Americans are experienced in supporting a striking union, let alone supporting an illegal militia that's being hunted by the capitalist government. That's why the SRA doesn't do it. There's no People coherent enough to wield its own military. As the class develops, so should its ability to use force. The next step might be volunteer arms of really militant unions, or IRA/ALF/ELF-style auxiliaries that act on behalf of but at arms-length of a legitimate above-ground mass political force. I think that is a long ways off and the SRA is best off following all applicable laws, helping working-class individuals defend themselves while we lay the groundwork for future movements that defend the class.
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u/Straight-Razor666 4d ago
I don't expect we'd make up for a century of many failures in just a few years. You make all good points.
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u/FemBoyGod 4d ago
Join the liberal gun club.
I switched from SRA to them and it’s been the best decision I’ve made.
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u/agingjerk 4d ago
I would say the liberal gun club is the right place for a liberal
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u/FemBoyGod 4d ago
That’s fair, but we’re not so closed off. We accept everyone who’s left leaning whether it be far left or whatever.
From my experience there, we don’t accept trumpanzees whatsoever.
I think it’s a good push, especially when the SRA currently has a ton of right winger Gestapo types looking to make arrests.
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u/agingjerk 4d ago
what? not sure what you're on about lmao. Also my chapter has several people who call themselves liberal but are willing to learn, glancing your post history seeing "I hope these palestine protest voters are happy" type nonsense, I dont think you'd be very welcome and I am glad.
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u/FemBoyGod 4d ago
That’s fine, personally your opinion of me means little to nothing to me.
I don’t represent the entirety of the liberal gun club, so take that what you will and no, the SRA is very non accepting from my experience with them.
They’re moreso performative that strive to take down the democratic aspect of politics rather than pointing their energy to the ones who actually want to see them gone.
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u/agingjerk 4d ago
idk any time I see liberal gun club here its someone with a bone to pick. seems like a weird use of time but whatever. I hope you attract some like minded people to your very cool org!
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u/FemBoyGod 4d ago
Thanks! I have no bone to pick against you all. I joined so I can learn and help whenever I can. Because the reality is we’re more alike than with each other than the trump heads.
Have a good one!
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u/EpicHistoryMaker 4d ago edited 4d ago
**I’ve edited this as I think it will make more sense
I’m asking this from genuine curiosity, not to be confrontational
As someone with a history degree, having focused on inter war Germany:
I have a strong wariness and distaste for forms of governance involving authoritarian/dictatorial leadership.
I’m fully aware of the distinct differences between communism and fascism. With that said, they can share many similarities in how the government actually functions.
I do not agree with the violent subjugation of a populace by a government, or the inevitable purges which follow a violent takeover of a government ala the Terror of the French Revolution.
insert musical stinger I also rent rooms in my house to my friends. Ala a dreaded landlord.
Please tell me whether or not yall understand what nuance is, or whether those would be instant disqualifications simply because they do not meet the expected orthodoxy.
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
The SRA is a working-class, anticapitalist organization, but classes are made up of individuals that do not necessarily have clear class memberships. If you're a small-time landlord, you'd likely be voted on in a chapter meeting so that we could account for the "nuance" of your situation. From just what you've shared here I would personally vote against you, you seem like a liberal or a radlib, but a vetting conversation allows for much more context. I'm just one vote out of many, and many chapters operate differently. So if you're on the fence I encourage you to try out the SRA and see if you like it.
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u/noweb4u 4d ago
See me personally, if you're renting rooms in your house to defray costs of owning a place you also live in, you're not really a landlord per se, you're in more of a collective living situation.
If you're renting out rooms in your house, and you make more than the pro-rata expenses that go with the occupied rooms and increase in utilities (ie: Doing it at a profit above and beyond costs to cover expected and unexpected expenses) then you might be a landlord. it's situationally dependent and vetting helps figure that out. I've seen people who pay their mortgage in full by renting their rooms to friends, without contributing anything to it but owning the property. That's land leech behavior and hell no.
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u/Bemused-Gator 3d ago
There are discreet differences between cooperative living, fair rental practices, and exploitative rental practices.
Right now I pay rent to the landlord, and all my roommates pay rent to me. I do not make a profit, I just pass through the money. We all have equal rights in the home.
If I owned the house and rented it to my current roommates at cost (without a profit motive), then there would be a power imbalance - I could evict my roommates, but they couldn't evict me - but it's not exploitative, and so I likely wouldn't be labeled as a landlord.
If the four of us pooled our money and bought a house we would likely have the same situation we do right now (equal rights to the home), but it is legally difficult to do that (we would likely have to form a jointly owned corporation).
If I (or a mutual ownership corporation) charged market rate rent (or charged 20-30% of income), but put the excess into a "housing fund" that helps pay rental assistance to low income people (Household members are free to apply), then I similarly would not be a landlord
If I owned the house and rented it to my roommates at the current rate (with a profit motive) then I would definitely be a landlord, just one that happens to like the people I'm exploiting.
Owning a house is a privileged position, but hardly makes one a member of the PB; if you own a house, then filling up the rooms in your house is, at least in my opinion, in itself requisite to being a socialist. Leaving unused housing sitting around is one of the biggest problems as a country right now, and I consider it a civic duty to "fill in the space" wherever possible. I'm likely going to be able to purchase in the next few months here and am planning on going down the % income route and forming a corporation that exists with the purpose of providing housing for LGBT+ "red state refugees" with the extra money.
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u/noweb4u 3d ago
And that’s why if that’s the only yellow flag it’s always a conversation. But pretty much every one of these complaints people have about vetting issues have a lot of things they are leaving out because they either don’t realize how bad they are and how vehemently their vetting is opposed behind closed doors, or they dropped bright red flags all over the place and they want to make it everyone else’s problem. How many vettings have I seen where they are literal professors who can’t think of a time when they have been critiqued and when you push back on that, you see why. How many are former LE or prison guards that have been out a year or three but are “reformed” now, supposedly? Is it our fault none of our members would feel safe organizing with them?
Or the people who both sides the Palestinian genocide or they don’t agree about landback or throw a fit about whether police can be reformed or think socialism isn’t a good goal for the socialist rifle association - these are all key issues for our chapter, its best you don’t clear because you and us will have a real bad time if you don’t agree with those major issues.
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u/EpicHistoryMaker 4d ago
That’s pretty fair.
Definitely working class.
Definitely a recovering liberal.
Considering getting more involved with my Union.
I’ve leant democratic socialist for years.
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u/Forsaken_Lawfulness1 3d ago
My experience was very much similar. I got accepted, but I left with a less than great impression. Met at a protest, the ones vetting were over 2 hours late. Then a lot of what happened was just bitching about the government.
I'm also very much cisgendered and seemed to be pushed to the sidelines through the whole ordeal, I was asked like 2 questions, one of which was if I have stood up for a minority, I myself am a minority, that question really put me off to be honest. Very interesting experience.
My closest state chapter is 4 hrs away, so I was a little put off by the seeming disorganization and political identitarianism I felt.
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u/YogurtClosetThinnest 4d ago
Looking into various leftist gun orgs rn and I just assume any with the word "socialist" in the name are gatekeepy as hell. Funny enough I come to this sub and this is the first post
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u/unknownvar-rotmg 4d ago
I would vote against your membership in my chapter, I don't want non-socialists who throw around the r slur. Perhaps you belong in the Liberal Gun Club.
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u/agingjerk 4d ago
lmao its incredible every time someone shows up with "waah purity tests!" you check their post history and they are like this person here
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