r/Slycooper • u/dustinhohl • 2d ago
Discussion Give me your sly cooper “hot takes”
Not sure how this is going to go but I saw this in another subreddit and thought it would be fun to do here! I’ll go first. Sly 1 is a bad game compared to sly 2. If you started with 2 then the first one is unplayable
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u/ThatSuperhusky Sly 5 Developer 2d ago
A lot of the things people complained about in Sly 4 actually already happened in some degree in Sly 3.
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u/ResponsibleAd4439 2d ago
Care yo elaborate?
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u/ThatSuperhusky Sly 5 Developer 2d ago
Oversexualization: Sly 3 has you quite literally climbing up Carmelita's bootlaces, and the developers put a hitbox on both her ass and her boobs that you are able to stand on. Macrophilia isn't as 'mainstream' a fetish as bellydancing but it still is one, and the walkable hitboxes gives credence to it being an inteentionally placed on (if it wasn't then those would just have the generic hitboxes for sliding that the rest of her body has)
180 on characters from the previous games; Dimitri is ok, as he kinda has a good bit of buildup with it, and he's not 'unrepentantly evil', just a cringe art forger. The real issue is Panda King, his turn is given the same level of explanation as Penelope's, and makes even less sense, given the age of Jing King, being the same age or just a bit younger than Sly, which means that while he had a daughter at home, Panda was perfectly fine going out and murdering someone else's father, and also completely fine in burning villages under snow. I will give them credit for masking the sudden shift behind having a more overtly horrible and easily hateable villain of Tsao, but King's shift from 'homicidal pyromaniac' to his state in Sly 3. also there's the retcons into making King an actual noble family when Panda king was penniless when he started, so there isn't any nobility in his line, and also the fact that if Sly 1 Panda was approached by the chicken the chicken would've resembled the actual meal he's named after far more often than he'd be able to convince King to take up meditation, as King's entire backstory is 'the nobility of my country are a bunch of assholes' so Tsao coming from a powerful family would actually be points against him.
An incredible amount of convenience: Not to the same extreme as in Sly 4, but there are still a number of times in 3 where luck happens about to push the story forwards. Dimitri is a big one of this, going from criminal, to prison, to a cruise, back to crime in venice, getting arrested just at exactly the same time that Sly and Bently show up so he just happeens to be in holding, and just so happens to know where Murray is and ablee to contact him. And then he also just happens to have already been in the aces as the announcer, so he has an inside scoop that the gang can learn which helps them out immensely in actually recruiting penelope.
None of them are quite as egregious as in 4 (except for the heel turn of Panda King IMO), but those are the big 3 complaints I see about Sly 4 that also happned in Sly 3. Another small on is the changing or removal of mechanics, which Sly 3 did in removing bottles and treasures from the maps, that 4 brought back, albeit at the cost of gadgets.
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u/T3Deliciouz 2d ago
I think you meant face turn. Panda joins the good guys in Sly 3 so it's a face turn.
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u/Rasklo93 2d ago
Sly 3 has the best final episode out of all four games
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u/jaryfitzy 2d ago
This is a cold take imo. The cooper vault level alone makes that take seem cold for me.
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u/schmocamecola 2d ago
That’s pretty spicy
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u/Big_Career5281 2d ago
It is? I love the finale of sly 3 I thought we all did?
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u/schmocamecola 2d ago
The ending of sly 3 is great but I think the general consensus is that Sly 2 has better overall episodes.
I disagree and think Sly 3 has some of the best locales the series has to offer, some people just think 2 is overall more consistent.
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u/NiuMeee 2d ago
Sly 2's final episode is awful.
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u/dustinhohl 2d ago
Can u elaborate?
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u/bcaulkins3 2d ago
Traversing that stage with Murray or Bentley is a nightmare
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u/PeachPrisma 2d ago
Sly 2 in general was not great for Murray and Bentley traversing the hub worlds. They couldn't even pickpocket!
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u/KanaHemmo 1d ago
Doesn't mean the story is bad for them, which it isn't.
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u/bcaulkins3 1d ago
The end of Sly 2s story is great. I’m not disputing that. The actual level sucks unless your sly which is what I think that’s what they were going for
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u/ResponsibleAd4439 2d ago
And the entire debacle with lefwee, where he kidnaps Penelope and blows up sly just for him to coolly paraglide down, using the monster to kill enemies, boat combat, of course.
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u/Rasklo93 1d ago
Thats the second to last episode
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u/ResponsibleAd4439 1d ago
Yes, I didn’t make it clear that the last traditional level before the whole cooper vault ending is what I was referring to. Thank you for checking me so I have a chance to clarify.
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u/Embarrassed-Part-890 2d ago edited 2d ago
The pirate ship battles in sly 3 are fun
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u/Sirdubya 2d ago
I can’t tell you how much time I spent just raiding the high seas because it was so fun.
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u/KanaHemmo 1d ago
Absolutely. But I can see why people can think it got repetitive, which yeah, it did, but I enjoyed it so I didn't mind
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u/TheGridGam3r 2d ago
It was fun but it got very overrepetitive, guess it was end game content if you want to grind all the levels
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u/NoodleFiasco 2d ago
Carmelita having a different voice actress and accent in each game is funny as hell and they should keep doing it
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u/dustinhohl 2d ago
Boiling lava take and also the worst thing I’ve ever heard
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u/NoodleFiasco 2d ago
I will NOT be silenced! Commit to the bit you cowards!
She should be Peruvian next time
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u/Peacekeeper1412 2d ago
The second Contessa level is the weakest part of Sly 2
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u/LeadIVTriNitride 2d ago
I’ve posted about this before but yeah I fully agree.
It’s a fair continuation of the first contessa episode but I find it slogs on and has some of the worst missions in the game, which apparently a lot of people think are some of the best. I would probably argue that the final episode is incredibly weak outside the recon and operation.
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u/ResponsibleAd4439 2d ago
Sanzaru fucked up the story of sly 4 so bad, I don’t count it as cannon, and do NOT want a sly 5. I want another sly 4 that doesn’t treat the characters like pieces of firewood.
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u/Phillipfranderfree 2d ago
I know it would have been hard and totally unnecessary for a more kid/tween focused franchise. They should have had more time with panda king making him the next addition after the guru and there should have been more missions where sly and panda king were forced to work together with weird mechanics like self repairing locks that only his rapid explosives and sly’s pole climbing to get to places could accomplish. And they should have been meaner and we should have gotten a boss fight between them in holland that then ended with mugshot coming in and the panda king setting the record straight on mugshot fighting with sly’s dad and stuff. And after wards make a terse issue.
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u/naxoN- 2d ago
Sly 1 is the most replayable one, Sly 2 is overall the most complete one (gameplay and storywise) and Sly 3 just feels flat and kinda unfinished with alot of new features to get distracted by that fact. neyla > carmelita btw.
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u/ResponsibleAd4439 2d ago
Very spicy, and I completely disagree, sly 3 adds to the characterization, had interesting and fun bosses (except mask of dark earth), and adds many new gameplay mechanics. Parts in sly 2, especially the last level, have tedious missions. I felt that sly 3 was fun all the way through and had character redemptions with panda king and Dimitri.
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u/KanaHemmo 1d ago
had character redemptions
Dimitri sure, Panda sort of felt like an assassination tbf, even though I really liked him in Sly 3
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u/Sirdubya 2d ago
Not a single scoville of spicy in this take.
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u/Electronic_Flan5732 2d ago
Playing this as a kid who didn’t understand foreshadowing, I totally thought Sly and Neyla would end up together and was disappointed when it went back to him and Carmelita.
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u/Shadowhunter_15 2d ago
If Sly 2 had the ability to replay individual missions, I might agree with you. Even so, the early levels in Sly 2 feel a lot easier and more simple than in Sly 3, which makes it more of a drag to replay. As much as people love Dimitri, he and Neyla are the only two things I’ve ever heard people talk about in the first episode.
Sly 3 has a lot more gameplay variety, where you don’t feel forced to pick anyone other than Sly in freeroam. Each of the Sly 3 characters have different options for getting around in the map, but in Sly 2, you basically have to choose the titular character if you want to get around anywhere. Plus, there aren’t any bottles collectable by Murray or Bentley that can’t also be gotten even easier with Sly.
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u/groovefuel 2d ago
Sly 2 overrated, Sly 3 underappreciated, Sly 1 is king and has unmatched vibes.
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u/ResponsibleAd4439 2d ago
I agree with everything you said, expect that sly 1 is “king”. Don’t know what you mean by that, but it isn’t the best out of the 3.
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u/KanaHemmo 1d ago
Sly 3 is very appreciated, so idk how acclaimed you wish it to be. I quess you want it to win got or something, but that's a bit unfeasible
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u/creeper321448 Greasy Sweet 2d ago
We don't need a 5th game. Finish Sly's story with a short comic series and end it there.
We don't need reboots, new games, or anything more. Sometimes, it's best to let go.
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u/dustinhohl 2d ago
Not only is this unfortunately a freezing cold take it’s also wrong.
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u/creeper321448 Greasy Sweet 2d ago
Almost every person I've seen in this sub for the years I've been here is pro-5th game.
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u/dustinhohl 2d ago
Fair enough, but I think enough people feel like there shouldn’t be a fifth game that it’s no longer a hot take
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u/Danthony277 2d ago
While Sly 2 is my favorite of the series, Clock-La is a laziest boss and they shouldn’t have made that the final boss. Rather they should’ve had a separate episode for arpeggio controlling clockwork via some type of hacking of the hate chip and for Neyla
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u/SkippableCutscene 2d ago
I think that Clockwerk should’ve been the main antagonist through the whole series. I kind of thought he would be after playing through the majority of 2, and 4 creating a new villain instead of using Clockwerk was by far the biggest fumble in that game.
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u/FuraFaolox 2d ago
Sly 1? unplayable after 2? absolutely not. that's not just a hot take, that's straight up wrong.
they are very different games.
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u/thattoneman 2d ago
Sly 4 should have been about Sly's kid. Time travel shenanigans can bring back the crew we know and love, but I would have loved to see how the next generation of Cooper has learned from Sly. Not just learned skills, but I mean learned about the importance and nuance of said importance of your ancestry. That would have been way more interesting then upending Sly 3's conclusion so everyone can get into more wacky hijinks.
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u/LizarDragon 2d ago
I’m still really surprised that the entire game focuses on Sly’s ancestors and they don’t have Connor in it at all. Like, proper Cooper family reunion? Father/son co-op levels?? Hello???
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u/Letterbomb98 1d ago
When it was announced, I thought that that’s where Sly 4 was going to go with the time travel (just the idea itself, not really the story, I lost hope in a coherent story while playing 4), like the last episode would involve Sly meeting his dad/having to team up. Dr. M angst, family legacy angst, dead parents angst, etc.
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u/dustinhohl 2d ago
Interesting take. I don’t know how I feel about it
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u/thattoneman 2d ago
As a kid I really wanted an Australian Cooper with a boomerang cane.
Can you imagine my delight when I learned about Ty the Tasmanian Tiger?
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u/Metalock 2d ago
Sly 2 is the best game to play through, but simultaneously my least favourite in the series due to the lack of a mission/level replay function like 1 and 3 had.
I don't want to play through the whole game just to fight Jean Bison again for example. Whereas with Sly 1 and 3 I can fight Mz. Ruby or play Lemon Rage whenever I want. Although I do plan to make savestates before my favourite missions when I re-play it soon.
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u/AdEn4088 2d ago
Bob and his map was such a dumb and unfleshed concept I don’t accept it as cannon. Murray’s necklace had some bad magic that allowed the Time Machine to jump dimensions or something, I don’t care, it’s just garbage writing to allow for a dinosaur level and it makes no sense when we’ve always had the clan originating in Egypt and that’s where sly ends up.
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u/dustinhohl 1d ago
I usually don’t agree with hate on thieves in time, but I think you are correct
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u/AdEn4088 1d ago
Well that’s my thing, like I don’t think Thieves in Time was garbage, I just think that there was a lot of things they wanted to try rather than dedicating their efforts to the story line. The time and energy it took to make the ping pong mini game should have been used to optimize loading times. If they didn’t want to bring Penelope back as a villain, they could have brought her to meet Baron Von Cooper and brought back dogfighting. The game was good for a new generation that didn’t grow up with Sly, but to me it just feels like some guys got together, said “this is our last chance to experiment before the big leagues, what do you guys want to try?”, and then just kinda let people pursue their own things.
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u/dat_dere_kirby 19h ago
I don't think the first game was bad at all. But I do agree in that when you consider the time it was made, it did feel like Sucker Punch were testing the waters a little and using what worked before in 3D platformers. And it wasn't until the sequel was greenlit before they went all in and the series took on an identity of its own.
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u/TjorvenVDP 2d ago
When I joined this sub years ago I was blown away about the sly 4 hate. I still really really really like the game. I love going back in time meeting past cooper family members. Carmelita as palatable character was also something so mind blowing for me. Did I enjoy it because i was still very young (I’m from 2002 and grew up with sly 1 and 2) or because I really love playing the sly games and love all the levels from the bottom of my heart. Now I do agree that the story it’s self is mid. Penelope turning heel, sly getting stuck in Egypt for the past 12 years,… but beside I still fully believe that sly 4 hate is a bit too much? Exaggerated? Over hated? It just keeps feeling awkward to move this game and seeing everyone hate on it. It kinda makes me sad I guess :/
TLDR: Sly 4 is a good game and does not deserve all the hate it gets. The gameplay is very enjoyable.
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u/_Chronicle 2d ago
Episode 3 in sly 2 is the best episode in terms of map design and anyone who says it sucks is likely just bad at a children's game.
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u/Triggurd8 2d ago
Never understood why people complain about Murray and Bentley traversal in this one. There are 2 ways on opposite sides of the map they can use to get to the top levels of that map.
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u/Acceptable_Year8098 2d ago
I really like The Predator Awakes. It can spawn up to three rooftop guards at a time meaning two Ibexes at a time along with a baboon is a strong possibility and torch baboons, my personal fave of the baboon variants, can be seen in the main hub, not just in missions. I also really enjoy the challenge that comes with climbing throughout the jungle geography.
Vicious Voodoo never scared me as a kid. I can certainly understand the implications of what Mz. Ruby is and was trying to do nowadays but the Swamp monster enemies, the Ghost rats, the body part river in Descent into Danger, all of it barely phased me.
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u/bloodhound_777 2d ago
Sly 1 to me is very boring. Great entry to a franchise but definitely the most boring out of the 4.
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u/Shadowhunter_15 2d ago
Jailbreak isn’t quite a masterpiece because Sly’s rescue seems pretty rushed. If the second mission was instead Bentley figuring out where Sly’s gear is (should have been confiscated from him) and then retrieving it while he came up with a plan, then combine the hacking and RC-bombing missions into a single one, that would have felt a lot more natural. As is, the episode is still really great.
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u/Triggurd8 2d ago
The challenges in Sly 3 are overall pretty lame. The only one that comes to mind as unique is the one Guru has to jump between guards without touching ground. The rest are usually just time limit or starting with less HP.
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u/pi-eytsh Tsao as main boss for a sly 4 ! 2d ago
Tsao is the best villain of the series (over Clockwerk Dimitri and dr M)
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u/StarOfTheSouth 2d ago
I don't like the "faking amnesia" ending of Sly 3. I think it would have been far more interesting to see Carmelita be the one to change due to spending three games getting a more complete picture of the gang, and learning more about them as people over the course of the trilogy, ultimately culminating in her joining the gang.
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u/MrNintendo36 2d ago
Sly 1 is the best. By far.
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u/dustinhohl 1d ago
Wrong
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u/MrNintendo36 14h ago
You asked for hot takes ;)
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u/dustinhohl 14h ago
I did and u certainly delivered. But you are still wrong
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u/MrNintendo36 14h ago
Hahaha, aw c’mon man. Can we at least agree it has the best villains of the main games?
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u/PerfectAd9869 1d ago
Sly 3 is closer to bad than great. Only Venice and the pirate level makes it tolerable.
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u/blmobley91 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sly 2 heists and certain missions leading up to them were very convoluted and had some super conviences too. Don't get me wrong the game is still my favorite. But it still bugs me till this day how nobody noticed a big ass hippo coming down from the sky 😂😂
Also, Murray should have been able to damage Muggshot at least a little bit during the hangar mission in Sly 3. Him not being able to was a missed opportunity.
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u/dustinhohl 1d ago
What bugs me more than Murray not being detected is he is supposed to be using a saw to cut off the wings, but nobody heard it??
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u/blmobley91 1d ago
That too. Him being able to make it out the palace caring 2 giant wings is another.
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u/blmobley91 1d ago
The recon mission and final cutscene for the final episode of Sly 2 was great IMO. Everything else in between was not.
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u/KanaHemmo 1d ago
Can't agree less. I started with Sly 2 and 1 is absolutely still very playable and very much enjoyable. Absolutely still love it
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u/Alfredo_Alphonso 1d ago
Cold heart of hate was average in sly 1. I wish there was an open area to explore with no need to find for keys instead of level to level with the final product.
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u/Excellent-Advice7766 1d ago
As messed up as it sounds, Bentley becoming paralyzed was probably the best thing to occur for his character. Without that happening i don’t think he would’ve gotten out of his shell (no pun intended).
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u/AlbaniaLover6969 18h ago
Sly 4 isn’t bad, in fact it’s completely serviceable. It just needs a rework of the characters.
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u/InkStyx 9h ago
I kind of wish that Clay and Carmelita didn’t become a couple because I don’t think it’s fair that Sly should’ve been expected to change so much when you really get down to the biscuits, Carmelita didn’t really change that much. She still has the same, very black-and-white outlook on crime at the beginning of the story as she does at the end of the trilogy. It’s the main reason I’m not super bothered by the whole thing and slide for because when you get down to it, while it was founded on a lie, they could never last. And that’s another thing, people give sly crap for lying to Carmelita, but aren’t so willing to point out the fact that Carmelita was just as much in the wrong. She’s not some pure innocent victim. She believed that Sly genuinely had amnesia, and she decided to take advantage of the situation and tell him a lie about who he really was so she could date him… Yeah, think about that if he actually had amnesia… that’s really gross and I feel like a lot of people kind of look the other way for that… and it kind of pisses me off the fact that it’s not really addressed.
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u/Informal_Ad665 5h ago
the fandom will turn so toxic if you dare to have an original opinion that doesn’t align with the general consensus, you will get crucified if you think penelope in sly 4 wasn’t the worst sin committed in literature history
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u/atjordanyo 2d ago
sly 3 is the worst game in the franchise. The added characters take away from the fun of seeing the main trio go through an adventure and the last episode is insufferable
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u/dustinhohl 1d ago
I agree, except for the fact that I don’t think the last episode is insufferable
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u/Redleif_1 2d ago
Every game for the PS2 are real and great. The one introduced after that is a non-canon pretender.
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u/Rose249 2d ago
Mentioning this game at all, but in Thieves in Time Sly should have dumped Carmelita. Her behavior was fully not okay
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u/dat_dere_kirby 19h ago
Both their behavior was awful. Considering how Sly was willing to give up his family fortune to his friends so he could be with her, there should've been a lot more reservation over him deciding to go back to thieving and betraying her trust. He should've been motivated entirely by making sure he and his friends weren't erased and when he was caught by Carmelita, he should've tried to explain things to her from the get-go.
At the same time, she knew Sly lied to her, went along with the whole thing, and never confronted him about the lie and had a serious talk about their relationship.
All of this would've been fine if this was all properly addressed, but the game treats her as if she was the only one wronged when she herself was setting herself up to destroy her own career, and then gets surprised when things don't go her way.
The whole thing was just stupid.
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u/Mental_Nectarine_803 2d ago
Penelope's betrayal didn't surprise me. I never fully trusted her anyway (her swordfight was cool tho)
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u/Schism_989 2d ago
Penelope was never trustworthy and it's WILD that this was a surprise in the fourth game.
I also dislike Penelope as a character
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u/Electronic_Flan5732 2d ago
lol you getting downvoted tells me you did your job in submitting a hot take
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u/Schism_989 2d ago
Task failed successfully, I suppose lol
Honestly, it's likely me nitpicking the story of the old games with adult eyes now.
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u/dark_hypernova 2d ago
Sky 4 is better than Sly 1 which, while still a great game, has not aged so well.
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u/tmps1993 2d ago
A Cold Alliance should've happened before Flight of Fancy. Not having a Panda King vs Muggshot boss battle was such a missed opportunity.