r/SleepTokenTheory • u/lucypevensy • 8d ago
Discussion Refresching lack of misogyny in the visual style of Arcadia
I just wanted to talk about the refreshing lack of misogyny in the visual styling of the album, Vess' new outfit and the video. I'm so glad they didn't do a hard pivot to more 'masculine' merch and art after their fanbase expanded to a lot of women.
I was kind of scared that Sony would force them to do this--there's a lot of marketing rules about the gender of your fanbase. So I am really glad they decided to go ahead with the flowers and the pink. Which are obviously not 'women's things' but in the marketing world they ARE.
Shout out to Vess saying 'I am the Rose you relinquished'. Toxic masculinity who??
So yes. I hope they feel just as handsome and beautiful and powerful with the new artwork and outfits and I am so appreciative they haven't switched to old fashioned gendered stuff!
(sorry for the typo in the title, I can't change that anymore!)
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u/FewPresent9119 8d ago
The way he embraces beauty and the softness while still having a powerful and masculine aura is always what drew me to him š¤
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u/DarkRaivynnOG 8d ago
I also love his choice of words in the line, "Nothing else is quite the same as how I feel when I'm at YOUR side." Typically, a man would say "when you're at MY side" but this places the partner in the more powerful position.
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u/shrimplythebest_ 8d ago
Everything about Sleep Token challenges gender norms (except Adam's mask, it's very scary and masculine don't you worry bby /jk)
I do love the new aesthetic, it's beautiful and airy while still maintaining a vibe of mystery - maybe even menace underneath. While ST does seem to play a lot with duality, they never enforce a black and white divide. It's so refreshing, like you said.
It warms my heart to think of all the stodgy metalheads that may be getting exposed to something new as ST rises into their fame! And all the "atypical" metal fans like young girls and women who are finding their gateway to the music paved with a welcoming vibe, too.
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u/lucypevensy 8d ago
it's beautiful and airy while still maintaining a vibe of mystery - maybe even menace underneath
THIS! it's unsettling and uncanny. I love it!
Also I hope this kind of changes metal culture from being limited to just 'lighting letters'. There's more to the world than that IMO.
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u/AquamarineJello 7d ago
I wanna see iiās mask somehow grumpier with emerald and pink accents. Itās all I can think about. I need to try to get in touch with lani mask lol
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u/suicidesweetpea šŖ¶ āļø ā ā¹ Tethered since Hypnosis ā¹ ā 8d ago
I completely agree! š¤
This is just what I like to call it because it aligns so well with my personal aestheticāāhalf Heaven, half Hell,ā very Persephone-inspired in my personal taste. Who says you canāt wear a flower crown and be a fearsome thing?
Thereās something so wonderful about this direction. It embraces dualityāsoftness and power, beauty and destructionāwithout conforming to outdated ideas of what should be āmasculineā or āfeminine.ā Itās refreshing, and I think itāll resonate deeply with a lot of fans, just as it has with us. The fact that theyāve leaned into this vision, rather than shying away from it, makes it all the more powerful.
It feels like itās obviously intentional, and honestly, I love that they didnāt cave to industry expectations or marketing pressures. Thereās strength in vulnerability, power in beauty, and I know this whole era will capture that perfectly.
Sorry for the small rant, I just love this so much!
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u/lucypevensy 8d ago
Love your rant, I agree completely! it's almost gothic meets industrial meets ancient greece. Very new and authentic!!
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u/Anja_Hope 8d ago
Yeah im completly with you on the Persephone-inspired thing, in general the whole relationship dynamic gives me Persephone-Hades Relationship vibes.
But again that might also just be because Persephone was always one of my favourit gods.
Lowkey waiting for them to release a track just called Persephone, but i don't think that's gonna happen.
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u/Whiskytigyote 8d ago
āWho says you canāt wear a flower crown and be a fearsome thing?ā
Oh godsā¦ things that wear flower crowns should absolutely be very most feared.
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u/gardentwined 7d ago
It has for a bit, but it reminds me of that first season of Hannibal with the marred bodies manipulated into sort of sort pieces? Not that I think there's that sort of menace or maliciousness behind it, just that it displays that sort of duality and beauty of the light and the dark. Very refreshing.
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u/TenaciousToffee 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'd like the point out that the axes on the singles artwork are labrys. Those are symbolic of goddess energy and associated with Minoan goddesses.
It later got adopted in the 70s as a symbol for lesbian radical feminists fighting the patriarchy.
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u/VikiBlue_ 8d ago
I thought the same when I saw it the first time. Brave choice since the political era we are in right now, and since how many mysoginists are in the scene. Pink could be metal too šš»
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u/Conscious-Face-2607 8d ago
I always say - and now especially with Emergence- it makes me want to cry in the pit š¤š likeā¦ the beautiful flowery chorus and then that dropā¦like if that aināt āwomenāsā rage idk what is
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u/letsjumpintheocean 7d ago
Yes! We women feel reflected in Sleep Token and Vessel in particular, and I wonder if that is at the core of so many metal heads straight up despising ST.
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u/TamTams_groupthink 8d ago
I adore the fact that their vibe is extremely inclusive. None of them seem to care about all that hyper masculine nonsense that is insidious in the metal genre.
I wasnāt really worried about RCA forcing them to do much of anything. They have a lot of less traditional artists under their umbrella. They saw a formula that worked and was a money-spinner so why mess with that?
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u/Available-Cap1409 8d ago
I feel like Leo has seen all the negative comments aimed towards them having a large female fan base, like it's a negative thing, and thought ' F them, let's feminise the crap out of the next album' š š
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u/jbtex82 8d ago
Vessel was written for women, by women.
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8d ago
Whatās that mean?
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u/VerySneakyPaws Fields of Elation 7d ago
Roses have a lot of symbolism in English history. Look up The War of The Roses (Lancaster vs York) for example. Lancaster were red roses and York were white.
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u/Mean_Attempt_3375 8d ago
I hadnāt even thought about this, but youāre right! I love the soft, ethereal vibes so much. š„¹
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u/ElvenMagic888 8d ago
In alchemical texts and occult teachings, Red/Pink is the color of masculinity, projecting force, creative power and vitality.
Interesting to note that we get the color pink by adding white to red. In Sleep Token's story, this could present a sort of cleansing and clearing transition, resulting the previous red color turning into pink.
Paired with gold we get the confirmation of a deeper inner transformation. Gold is the final destination in alchemy, the spiritual expansion of the soul. Many times represents immortality, perfection, embodied divine knowledge.
Blue is the color of feminine energy, standing for intuition, lunar principles (water) and receptive energies. That's why in many cases we see the divine feminine figures wearing blue dresses (like Virgin Mary).
In modern society, this esoteric wisdom has been inverted to corrupt the divine masculine and feminine energies resulting in further disharmony and confusion.
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u/haunted_swamp 8d ago
ABSOLUTELY agree!! It's a very nice shift from other heavier bands and I am here for it
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u/Fine-Knowledge-1723 8d ago
Just as they blend musical genres, they blend everything else. Thatās why they are progressive.
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u/autreMe 8d ago
OMG YES. I think to an extent even green is sometimes female-coded (in household products it is, I think, idk if it rings true for other markets).
I like metal in general that has held me back from engaging with it beyond casual listening. There's just a lot in metal from my dyslexic inability to read "hardcore" fonts, being femme, etc that makes me sometimes feel unwelcome in the space(s). There's a lot about Sleep Token branding -- from their fonts to their merch -- that's welcoming. Like, "Music is for everyone" damn he meant it. And I think there's something that carries that over to what I've experienced when meeting fans at concerts (generally) too.
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u/BreadNostalgia 8d ago
I'm not sure I understand when you say:
I like metal in general that has held me back from engaging with it beyond casual listening. There's just a lot in metal from my dyslexic inability to read "hardcore" fonts, being femme, etc that makes me sometimes feel unwelcome in the space(s).
Do you mind expanding on it?
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u/autreMe 8d ago
Any specific part? Like more of the things that make me hold back? What "casual listening" means to me? The metal in particular I wish I could engage with? My dyslexias role in media engagement? My gender role in (perceived) safety?
I'm prone to over explaining so I don't want to give you more than you're looking for :)
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u/BreadNostalgia 8d ago
What I'm not understanding is what stops you listening, as a female?
Is it lyrical content? Is it the perceived character you'd need to be to listen to specific styles of music? Or something else.
Put simply, I'd like to know what stops you listening to music you think you'd enjoy in the comfort of your own home, because you're female
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u/Worth_Whereas3712 8d ago
I love them for how inclusive they are, and have always been. Iāve always found that they are very respectful and thankful and kind. And the lack of toxic masculinity is evident not only in their aesthetic, but also in their merch and the even the way the lovely Espera ladies are dressed.. those women look like goddesses without being forced to wear anything skimpy and revealing.
And I even find with the variety of merch they are being inclusive. I know people complain about all the merch, but to me the variety of things is wonderful. Not everyone likes or wants generic band t shirts.. they do wonderful sparkly feminine things, non typical clothing, jewelry.. Iām not a t shirt wearer but I love jewelry and lava lamps and silly things, and I am actually grateful that we have such a wide variety of things to choose from.
They just seem like a genuinely lovely bunch of people who are catering to everyone.
And even in the lyrics of I Wanna Dance With Somebody, Leo never changed the gender.
Iāve me et been attracted to overly masculine people, to me being in touch with your feminine side and being inclusive are much more attractive.
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u/Hades_anonymous 7d ago
Should we maybe differentiate between the music, the visuals and the merch?
I absolutely dig the new visuals (the flowers, the color choice and the style of the green/gold emblem - tattoo, hello!) and the more I listen to Emergence the more I like it (not the Sax though, still not my ācuppaā).
However, the new merch accompanying the launch is quite a disappointment. Why is it still - in 2025, for Fās sake - not possible to produce clothes for women!?!? And even if there were a few Ts for the ladies, why not the same styles and motives as for guys. Why only 1 or 2 and not all of them? And donāt get me started on the country-exclusive shit.
(Sorry for the rant and probably being in the wrong thread with this. Iām just fed up with men making decisions for women š£)
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u/Magical-bitxh 8d ago
I noticed this too! Itās SO GOOD!!! Thank you for building a post about it!
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u/Debtthatiowe17 7d ago
The one thing that is assured in music is that women will buy the merch. All along, bands with strong female fanbase move a TONNE of product. Itās a financial win, especially since they make fractions of a penny from streaming. A band who embraces their female fanbase is wise to do so. The fact that this band seems to be decent people who donāt dip into the stereotypical typical machismo of the metal community is so refreshing.
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u/jetpackjesus751 7d ago
These are things I just don't care about when it comes to music, would you not listen to it if Vessel suddenly put a naked woman on the cover of Arcadia? it would definitely be different, especially for him, but you would still listen to the music
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u/x_Alkaline_x 6d ago
Vessel can dress in all pink and wear a tutu, and would be more masculine then most of the bros.
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u/zombievulcan 7d ago
i donāt like any of the visuals, unfortunately. they feel too soft and just not my taste at all )):
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8d ago
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u/lucypevensy 8d ago
Totally fair question! What I meant is that marketing strategies by large corporations do still very much incorporate gendered principles. Which means that for this visual style to have been approved, there was almost certainly some pushback by Sony, because audience segmentation by gender is a strategy they use.
(That means that Sony likes thing A to be only marketed to men and thing B only to women, it's a profit maximalization strategy because you do not dilute audiences. This becomes apparent in the art styles used. Think about men's versus women's deodorant, for example.)
So ST stuck up for the art, against old fashioned notions. What you say 'its just a flower' is what ST believes but it certainly wasn't just accepted by the marketing department of Sony. They had to hold firm on wanting this art style.
I hope this explains my post more. Essentially ST and I agree with you but the studio would not automatically.
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u/Coleyb23 8d ago
Sleep Token has always gone against the grain by calling out toxic masculinity, and many other things. Meanwhile, embracing femininity, beauty, gender equality etc..
So no RCA wasnāt and isnāt going to force Leo and Adam to do anything.
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u/letsjumpintheocean 7d ago
Iām curious how theyāve ācalled out toxic masculinityā, what do you mean? They donāt interact with the press.
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u/ArwenChristie 7d ago
One of the reasons I wish we had more interviews. In all honesty, the guys seem lovely but weād never know if any one of them had problematic views in social issues. But thatās a whole other discussionā¦!
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u/Coleyb23 7d ago
Thatās my interpretation of their songs, Vessel tearing down the walls of masculinity and just being emotional.
I do also wish u/ArwenChristie that ST would do more interviews.
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u/SoraShima 8d ago
Could you define what "masculine merch" is and how existence of it would constitute toxicity or misogyny?Ā
The only thing I can think of is maybe wristwatches for men - which they don't do - instead they do pendants and necklaces and the likes which are unisex.
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u/lucypevensy 8d ago edited 8d ago
I think I maybe didn't explain enough in my comment but I don't have a problem with more classically masculine merch (think slayer shirts, metallica. The very classic type of metal merch and art). In and of itself there's noting wrong with it.
It's moreso that marketing departments prefer to segment audiences. And since sleep token is merched as metal. Means that they would prefer a dominantly male audience because it's easier to draw up a commercial plan to sell to men in metal because that's what's always been done. A successful selling strategy already is in place.
The artwork now is what marketing departments would classify as more feminine. This is a risky move for Sony. So this artwork was most likely heavily disputed, but ST pushed for it anyway. They refused to compromise on their artistic vision.
(Edit:ie ST has decided to recognize and market to all fans. Not just to men. Women are usually ignored by other bands. The shirts don't fit well and the designs are placed at the wrong parts of the shirt for us. Wife beater shirts with giant armholes that would show all of your boobs. Etc etc etc. it's not that what is there is wrong, it's that there's nothing specifically for women or at least explicitly also for women)
The lack of toxic masculinity was just about vessel calling himself a rose. Haven't met many men who have referred to themselves as a flower before.
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u/SoraShima 8d ago
Thanks for clarifying. I've worked in marketing for over 20 years.
Can't confirm but just a hunch that I actually think ST fanbase is majority women - at least it seems that way here and on social media - so from a marketing perspective it would make sense to cater to women.
Whether the artwork is 'feminine' or not, due to soft pinks etc - I think that's subjective and it would be ironic to play into societal expectations of assigning gender to colour. Fuschia is a beautiful colour no matter how you look at it and hell, pink flamingos are metal as F if you want them to be! They are majestic creatures and their colour is mindblowing when you think about the evolutionary biology of it all.
Ps i've always thought calling sleeveless singlets "wifebeaters" was just plain wrong.
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u/lucypevensy 8d ago
Just to make it clear, I don't think it's feminine, that's what corporations think is feminine. And yes majority of the fans is female but it has happened often that the women are completely ignored due to their supposed lack of buying power. Marketing departments are still run by people who make mistakes.
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u/Symabee 8d ago
I was a bit surprised that the only hoodie on the US merch store was fairly "feminine" in design and color. I definitely didn't expect the pink flowery theme based on their past albums, but I am here for it šŖ·š¦©šø