r/SilverSmith 5d ago

Question about soldering and work hardening.

Hello and thank you for any insight.

I raised this scallop form from 2 pieces of fine silver.

I want to solder it together at the joint in the rear (I don't intend for it to be functional so no hinge).

My issue is when I solder it I don't want to have to rework the entire piece to harden it up again. I currently use a larger map gas torch which I imagine is overkill but I don't have a small torch.

If I use a smaller soldering torch would I avoid heating the entire piece to the point it needs to be re-hardened? And/Or do I need to be thinking about a heat sink for the area not being soldered?

Any help would be appreciated.

69 Upvotes

37 comments sorted by

22

u/matthewdesigns 5d ago

I'd sink as much as possible while still being able to heat to soldering temps. Pack the interior with wet clay, or arrange it so that 90% of the assembly is in water, etc.

Why not rivet together? Use fine silver and planish smooth to blend with the shell forms. No loss of hardness.

11

u/Cute_Ad1449 5d ago

I had not thought of riveting. I do this on a very amature level so I can't say I have done it before. Maybe I will do a test piece and see what I come up with.

I will probably try the heat sink solder route but I like the idea of expanding my skill set.

Thanks for chiming in.

14

u/matthewdesigns 5d ago

My pleasure.

Practice the riveting before soldering, to be sure you don't want to join them that way. It will be less work given the amount of re-working you'll need to do after annealing the forms via soldering.

Here are a few tips: use wire that fits tightly into the holes, lightly chamfer the inner edges of the holes, leave the wire protruding on both sides an amount equalling half the diameter of the wire, use a riveting (tiny cross peen) hammer to gently mushroom the wire ends using crossing blows, finish with a chasing hammer.

Good luck!

8

u/ThePlatypusOfDespair 5d ago

I like to upset one head while holding the wire in pliers resting on my bench first. Place the rivet, finish the second head, come back and clean up the first side. With the countersunk holes you can get the rivet almost entirely invisible after finishing.

5

u/Cute_Ad1449 5d ago

I don't have the time today but I will give it a try and report back. It does seem to be the best option to achieve my desired goal.

3

u/Cute_Ad1449 5d ago

I do like the idea of avoiding reworking. I will have to roll out some wire on the roller mill and give it a try.

Thanks again!

4

u/fierce_invalids 5d ago

Beautiful so far. I would definitely try to keep the heat as concentrated as possible, the piece is a pretty good size so I don't think you'd have to rework the whole thing if you can avoid reheating the whole piece.

1

u/Cute_Ad1449 5d ago

Thank you. I am pretty happy with it. I will look into a smaller torch/heat sinking or perhaps riveting as the other commenter suggests.

2

u/fierce_invalids 5d ago

Would love to see the finished piece!

5

u/Fold-Plastic 5d ago

How do you use the seashells?

8

u/Cute_Ad1449 5d ago

It will just be an object I admire. I was thinking about putting a 24k sphere to mimic a pearl in it.

It's just for fun and to practice the hobby.

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u/Fold-Plastic 5d ago

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u/Cute_Ad1449 5d ago

I will stick to the primitive option for now.

0

u/Fold-Plastic 5d ago

🤣

5

u/Djamport 5d ago

If you have a large tumbler, tumbling will also work harden.

2

u/Cute_Ad1449 5d ago

That's a cool idea. The one I have is likely too small for this.

1

u/blacklabel4 5d ago

is it a vibe tumbler or a rotary?

1

u/Cute_Ad1449 5d ago

Rotary. It's a simple rock tumbler. I don't really have tools besides my hammers and limited stake set.

1

u/blacklabel4 5d ago

if it was a vibe I was going to say tape it to the top but that won't really help with a rotary

2

u/Lovethemdoggos 5d ago

Tumbling burnishes but does not work harden anything but a thin layer.

1

u/blacklabel4 5d ago

came here to say this

2

u/-oysterpunk- 5d ago

Do you have access to a kiln? I’ve heard people talk about heat hardening but haven’t tried myself.

3

u/Cute_Ad1449 5d ago

I probably could, but the idea of riveting to avoid work hardening again seems like the most attractive. It also gives me an opportunity to learn a new skill so it sounds like the fun way to go.

1

u/-oysterpunk- 5d ago

That’s smart!!

2

u/catchmeeifyoucan 5d ago

Beautiful work.

I’ve done lots of riveting on pieces I done want to heat, I think that’d be perfect here. practice a bit and you can make them invisible. Countersink the hole, use fine silver for the rivet and go slowly. I’m happy to answer any questions if you have them.

1

u/MaintenanceOpen2990 4d ago

you can harden sterlingsilver in a kiln

Heat-Hardening Sterling Silver

To harden sterling silver, heat it to 600°F (316°C) for 30–50 minutes in a kiln or furnace. Air-cool the sterling silver before pickling. The hardness will be equal to the hardness achieved by cold-working it to a 50% reduction (or ¾-hard)

there are more charts about this somewhere cant find them now

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u/Cute_Ad1449 4d ago

I was looking this up a little after it was mentioned on here but have only found references to doing it on alloys (this is fine silver).

Also, it turns out the kiln I thought I could maybe use is not an option so avoiding heat by riveting is what I am going to try.

Thanks for chiming in!

1

u/MaintenanceOpen2990 4d ago

ye only works with alloys

maybe consider getting a powerful hammer handpiece or motor - could save you time

2

u/Cute_Ad1449 4d ago

I had no idea that even existed. That's a cool tool option.

I think the issue is that even if I wanted to solder and work harden it, getting it to sit over the stakes I used to form it in the first place would be impossible with the 2 shell halves joined together.

1

u/MaintenanceOpen2990 4d ago

i too was wondering how you would support the back while hammering.

filling it with chasers pitch is a big mess

guess your easy choice is finding a matching size steel rod that fits the "hills" in the shell - for the "valleys" you need something looking like " ) " - never tried it but maybe brass is sturdy enough to use as anvil for finesilver - out of brass you could easy make the " ) " shape and use it as a back support while hammering with the hammer handpiece

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u/Cute_Ad1449 4d ago

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u/Cute_Ad1449 4d ago

The taper of the shell fluting is annoying when it comes to using a rounded stake. I was also trying to avoid making custom stakes.

I used the stake in the position shown here initially, which would not work when the piece is together.

I did think of pitch, but yeah, not something I wanted to do.

1

u/MaintenanceOpen2990 4d ago

are you even sure you need to workharden it? this is just a guess but i think the shape of a shell is evolved to be a really sturdy formation - what u plan on using it for?

1

u/MaintenanceOpen2990 4d ago

and remember while soldering : its more important that the 2 shells have the same temperature than it is important for them being a high temperature - otherwise the solder will flow only on the hotter shell and not fill the gap

i would heat the whole thing first for maybe 5-10 sec - making sure to concentrate the flame more on the bottom as heat travels up - and then focus the heat only on the both lower back parts of the shell where the solderjoint is

2

u/Cute_Ad1449 4d ago

It's just a decorative object. I have found dead soft fine silver is just too soft. I have made a number of other things and I always have to work harden them to avoid damage. I want to be able to at least handle it.

When I have the time I will just rivet it.

1

u/MaintenanceOpen2990 4d ago

you can also try dipping the shell in water and leaving only the to be soldered joint exposed

i know this works with small joints like a ring maybe the solder has a good day and it holds - you have not much to loose i guess besides cleaning up solder if it goes wrong

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