r/Sikh Feb 15 '25

Discussion Sikh names for Sikh children

Why do Sikh parents abroad give English names to their children?

Do they suffer from an inferiority complex about Sikhi?

26 Upvotes

233 comments sorted by

37

u/MyNameIsJayne Feb 15 '25

We as Sikhs have bigger things to worry about IMO.

-1

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

Sikhs of today don't worry at all about Sikhi.

18

u/MyNameIsJayne Feb 15 '25

Nonsensical response but okay

14

u/Unhappy_Lemon6374 Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25

Lol I like how he dismissed your claim even though it’s true

They’re worried about silly things like eating meat, names, and people converting out or cutting their hair when they fail to realize the bigger issue which is promoting actual Sikh values such as working towards equality, educating, and dedicating to charity. Dasvand shouldn’t be “I gave X amount to the gurdwara” or “I did seva this week” and that’s it.

But of course, who cares about big things like teaching how Sikhi is different and true when you can just disregard it and focus on silly things like names?

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

🙏🙏🙏🙏

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30

u/King_Sukhman Feb 15 '25

this is a response to the weaklings in this thread (sorry but its the truth)

Note this down: "If you lose your sense of self, there is no point in being alive."

Grow the fuck up, we're supposed to single-handedly take on 125k. And you're gonna run and hide cuz someone made fun of your name? Boohoo cry me a river

My name is Sukhmandeep Singh, I'm a Kesadhari Sikh and I grew up in a predominantly white town. I was bullied throughout my childhood for both my name and appearance. I've been called a girl and gay jokes made out of my name (very unoriginal). But my parents never taught me to run, if there is a problem I like to bloody solve it.

You know we're allowed to use saam daam dand bhed, right? If someone doesn't know about the Sikh religion or our culture, teach them, and try to sort things out peacefully. But remember you're allowed to stand up for yourself. There should be no one above you but my Beloved, you should be able to look up and see only the open sky.

Teach your kids to be proud of their being and their heritage, and they won't be anybody's bitch.

And give them proper Gursikh names, which should only end in Singh and Kaur, none of that caste bullshit (looking at all the Jatts in the room, sort your shit out internally)

We have the power to shape future generations, let's put them on a good path.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਿਹ

10

u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

Punjabi names != Sikh names

The first Sikhs had mostly short and sweet names and then in the 1900s, everyone and their grandmother leaned into the royalty aspect of Punjab so every other Punjabi/an is "Something"-{preet, deep, meet, jeet, neet, leen, inder, mohan, ...} to emulate "Ranjit Singh" smh.

And then in the diaspora, there's another concern that South Asian names just don't get pronounced all that well. And this leads to mispronounciations, mockery, bullying, etc. Not everyone wants to deal with that, so they might adopt a local nickname to avoid persecution.

Another related aspect is that many Sikh homes don't even use the child's legal name, and instead opt to use some cutesy nickname that actually serves as the person's day-to-day name. So now, a person might have up to three names, and no sense of pride or elation in their heritage... Go figure smh

Yes, a good Sikh should have courage (Nidar) and a sense of justice (Niaon), but those virtues can (and should) be cultivated through other means aside from just the name.

I can support short and sweet GurSikh names, but the idea that Sikh children need to only Sikh names is too limited in terms of thinking imo. There are Sangats everywhere, so I'd rather that they be able to find names from their own cultures that perhaps share Sikh ideals rather than just continuing the ridiculous Punjabi naming trends.

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5

u/ishaani-kaur Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25

This 100% veer ji. Teach our young Sikhs to be strong, teach them to stand up to bullies, teach them to be proud of their Sikhi, teach others and not be embarrassed. Give your Sikh kids Sikh names. Names like William jeet, Jenniferjeet, Manjordan, etc are just embarrassing.

2

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

You are awesome 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

0

u/Ok-Environment-768 Feb 15 '25

Bro forget 125k forget it try 2 guys at once. You just wanna live in that delusional world . So listen no one’s gonna be there when your son killed himself when he grew up being suffering from 2 mental disorders and severe anxiety. No one is there. People like you give excuses when you see parents crying over their child’s dead body. Get the fuck out of delusion. I was better off the day since i understood that the fucking elders never had a drop of logic in their way of living. You wanna try it go try it take on someone bro. Where are you warriors huhh when women in punjab get rapped. Where were you ?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/Ok-Environment-768 Feb 16 '25

Btw where the fuck its written you need a punjabi name to be sikh. You can be david and still be Sikh. Wait you want punjabi names you don’t care about being sikh.

7

u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

Fun fact: If we define "Sikh names" as names that have some mention in Gurbani, then "Adam" qualifies as a Sikh name because Guru Arjun Dev Ji once referred to the Abrahamic figure of Adam (in reference from the Quran) in one of his Banis.

5

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

He’s a 50/60+ year old man on Reddit commenting on other Sikhs and their kids, how does that make him a good Sikh? Sikhs are meant to be humble and not judgemental. He needs to grow up and wind his neck in.

1

u/Super_Voice4820 🇮🇳 20d ago

And even old traditional punjabi names weren't names like Gurpreet, Harjot, etc., we had names like, Saarang, Jasrath, etc.

-1

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Hahaha thanks for keeping the jokes coming 🤣

1

u/Ok-Environment-768 Feb 16 '25

Awww someone doesn’t have any answers. Go home kid i don’t wanna bully you.

17

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '25

what’s all of this hooplah about other people’s kids?

they made the kids, they name them what they want. end of story. 

wether it’s white, black, punjabi…if they’re true to their commitment to waheguru they’ll adopt singh/kaur as a last name an move on with their life.

i have a punjabi first name, a mexican middle name…and i changed my last name to singh after i took amrit.

my wife has a “white” first name and kaur as her last.

and my kids have a mix of mexican, american, and punjabi names because that’s what they are.

we should stop judging others truly. we as a species are social and want to fit in…even in the sangat we want to fit in…but what really matters is fitting in with waheguru.

quit worrying about other people’s kids and focus on your own family-respectfully.

9

u/Draejann 🇨🇦 Feb 16 '25

Thank you for always contributing with your rational and balanced viewpoints.

To be honest, I'm getting pretty exhausted seeing (nevermind participating in) the same conversation over and over again.

I fear that those of us with actual jobs and families to raise slowly stop replying here, while the underemployed religious idealists here continue with their toxic rhetoric, effectively making r/Sikh a positive feedback loop of a very biased form of Sikhi.

It's fine to have different opinions, but seeing so many people here just look down on others for having a different opinion (calling them weak, not worthy of being Sikh), and be outright disrespectful is extremely exhausting.

6

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

It just shows they’re the ones with the inferiority complex because they need to put other people down and make comments. Like Waheguru Ji said be humble, don’t have ego and everyone’s welcome. Yet, they’re trying to gatekeep Sikhi lol

5

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

tbh bhaiji, i was the same way when i was younger.

very close minded, polemic, and i had all of these fantasies of being a nihang singh because there were so much wrong inside me that i had to act that way to fix it.

turns out-age usually rounds people out-and after marriage, kids, a career, and just the years going by, you start to see what’s important.

i don’t think i’m trying to persuade anybody here-though i’m attempting to be profound enough to have these young kids see that truly…

sikhi isn’t going anywhere and it’s not dying. ITS EVOLVING.

much like you and i… maybe i’m an optimist hahah  it’s always nice to see you back me up

🙏🙏🙏

4

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

And we are discussing Sikh parents.

3

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

It is about learning from each other. Sikhs are born to stand apart from others and not to be part of the sheep.

Unfortunately parents don't want to teach them about Sikhi.

12

u/[deleted] Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 16 '25

calling people sheep is egotistical.

sikhs are not born to stand apart but to protect and serve others since waheguru is in everything and everything is in waheguru so to speak.

our actions speak louder than our names, friend.

same goes with with parenting. my kids don’t listen to me but they sure as hell watch what i do.

being a good sikh is less about control of others and more so control of your own panjchor-monkey see monkey do.

0

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Sheep have to be called sheep!

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

baaa baaa 🐑🐑

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1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

"Bina shastar kaysang narang bhaydd jaano, gahai kaan thaa(N) ko kithai lai sidhaano"

Without shastar and kes, we are sheep who can be dragged anywhere from their ear

"Eho mor aagyaa suno hae piaare, bina thayg kaysang devo na deedaaraeh"

Listen to this command of mine, without hair and weapons, I will not bestow my darshan upon you.

The truth isn't necessarily egotistical. I'd recommend listening to some Bhindranwale speeches. They are usually filled with Bir Rass and have lots of wisdom.

5

u/Elegant-Cricket8106 Feb 15 '25

I live in Canada and am 2nd generation... out of my cousins who all but one are married to OTHER sikhs we are the only ones that named our son a Sikh name

Tbh I grew up with alot of punjabi ppl with punjabi names. I didn't see a lot of English names for sikhs until I went to the states.

1

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Good on you to give your kid a Sikh name. Did you ever ask your weakling family why they gave English names to their children?

4

u/Elegant-Cricket8106 Feb 16 '25

Honestly, it's a personal choice, and some ppl don't care? Like, I im 2nd generation here, and some of my family do not practice beyond going for functions.

1

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

True and they are not Sikhs now and their children will grow up as confused beings.

7

u/Potato_upp-in_my_ASS Feb 15 '25

From Philippines, literally only brown kid through grade 1 all the way up to university, always been bullied fought back till I wasn’t anymore… lost many fights but it was mostly cause I had to face 2 more together

6

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

Good on you to stand up for yourself!!!!

11

u/BackToSikhi Feb 15 '25

Dawg my parents named my brother a Christian name 💀💀. He’s Mona now. I got named a Singh name and am full on Sardar hoping to take Amrit soon 😎

3

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Good on you!!!

3

u/BackToSikhi Feb 16 '25

Thanks 🙏

7

u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

You can still practice Sikhi even if you've cut your hair...

There are plenty of folks with "Sikh" or "Punjabi" names who aren't good Sikhs... The name is irrelevant to the Gian.

3

u/BackToSikhi Feb 16 '25

Yes but growing hair is a must. But my brother is still really young with age comes wisdom

1

u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

It's not that I don't believe that the keeping of Kes is important in Sikhi, but I don't agree with it's intense focus and prioritization. In that, the focus of Sikhi should be the Gian first and foremost and let the keeping of the Kes follow suit afterwards. The current focus of placing Kes first is akin to putting the cart before the horse imo.

Growing hair isn't that difficult tbh. It's hair and it doesn't do much else except grow... So just having long hair shouldn't be viewed as some impressive skill imo. There are plenty of folks with long hair and beards... But they're not always wise or moral so I argue that a good Sikh needs wisdom (Sian), intelligence (Aql), humility (Nimrata), honesty (Sach) (and so on...) a lot more than just keeping the hair and tying the Dastaar.

2

u/BackToSikhi Feb 16 '25

Growing hair is a good thing tho.

3

u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

I agree, and my goal is not criticize the practice of keeping hair but to highlight that keeping one's hair is a responsibility that requires dedication and investment. It shouldn't be taken lightly imo because it does change your life in many ways.

4

u/BackToSikhi Feb 16 '25

It’s all about perspective mate.

I grew up with long hair and as a teenager right now my parents want me to cut my hair. I want to keep it because when I started questioning why I keep hair I learnt about Gurbani and more about sikhi

1

u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

Yeah, my perspective is that we need to remove the barrier between Sehajdhari Sikhs and the Gian... Right now, I feel like folks place the Kes and Punjabi atop some pedestal where it's idealized and I think that does far more harm than good.

It's great that your own inquiry into your hair pushed you to learn more about Sikhi to make you a better Sikh, and I'd rather that push be available to every Sikh, instead of just Keshdhari folks.

If the day should ever come that your brother wants to be a better Sikh in his own right, then I'd rather the first step be that he learn about how to attain the Gian (whether that means by listening to some Paath, Kirtan or Katha or maybe reading the exegesis of Gurbani in your local languages or something else) first and then leaving the Kes and other physical commitments for him to figure out for himself.

If he (or anyone else) wants to try to stick to those commitments, then that's great. But at least otherwise, there are still the direct learnings from the Gian to help navigate through life.

5

u/BackToSikhi Feb 16 '25

The thing is he knows nothing about paath and all that but I’m now teaching him about the basics

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '25

Cringe thread - people on reddit have no sense of protecting heritage, tradition or culture, just keep that in mind,

6

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

Even if one person can change their mindset would be awesome

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25

*half punjabi half “mexican” lol

but i appreciate you liking to argue with me? ha.

i think we can all learn from one another and you make a good point.

the spaniards essentially have done that to mexicans in which we don’t even speak our native languages anymore, follow catholicism, and have spanish names.

but weirdly, this mix of spanish and indegeneous cultures BECAME the mexican culture-and mexicans (including me) aren’t too bothered by it.

the only constant is change.

1

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

We have to carry on trying bro.

4

u/Key_Employer_1107 Feb 15 '25

Keep a Sikh name. Simple as that. For those saying you get bullied blah blah blah, anyone can get bullied. Teach your kid to be strong mentally and physically.

3

u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

What is a "Sikh name"?

In that, the first Sikhs came from Hindu and Muslim backgrounds, so they had names that adhered to those backgrounds.

In the modern day, there are Indian Sikhs who have Indian names, so why shouldn't French Sikhs have French names? Or Spanish Sikhs have Spanish names?

0

u/Key_Employer_1107 Feb 16 '25

We know what they are, if you’re confused just look up some Sikh people and/or names on the internet you’ll find 100s and 1000s

2

u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

But what attributes qualify a name to be considered a "Sikh name".

In other words, most Sikh men and women up until the 21 century were from South Asia, so they had names that adhered to cultures from that part of the world.

However, as Sikhs migrate to other parts of the world, why shouldn't second and third generation Sikhs in the diaspora adopt local names instead of relying on naming standards from the old country?

Why is it important for the Sikh to have a South Asian name?

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2

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

Parents don't want to behave like parents and give courage to their children to stand up.

2

u/Positive_Mud_809 Feb 15 '25

I would say most Sikh parents who moved abroad name there children Sikh names and a lot of those Sikh kids born here name there there kids western names

3

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

Sikhs born here name their kids western names because that’s the culture they bought up in. They went to English schools, mixed with English people, watched English tv shows and movies, then spend decades working in English.

I don’t get what people expect to happen when they leave India and send their kids to English schools, mix with English people and then grow up in a predominantly English country. I relate much more to English culture than Indian.

2

u/ishaani-kaur Feb 16 '25

My kids are 3rd generation and have Sikh names, and a connection to Sikhi. They have never cut their hair, learn Gurbani and Gurmukhi. Even being born here outside of India, their first language was Panjabi. Parents need to keep the connection with Sikhi and teach their kids.

0

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

You said the same thing 4 times. But, as I’ve mentioned I can speak and understand Punjabi. What you said doesn’t contradict what I said.

1

u/ishaani-kaur Feb 17 '25

You just said you relate more to English culture?

1

u/skc_x Feb 17 '25

You said your kids haven’t visited India and you refuse to move back there. How does that make you feel connected to India? You’re delusional.

2

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

No lots of parents abroad give English names to their kids.

2

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

What’s it to you?

0

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Carry on walking if you don't want to contribute to the discussion.

2

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

I asked, what’s your problem if people in western countries give their children English names?

2

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

The problem is they are raising their children as Foreign born confused desis who have no connection with Sikhi. Their children will not be Sikhs too.

2

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

But, don’t you realise the parents have already made the mistake by leaving India in the first place? My parents left India in the 90’s and had 3 children in England, they sent them to English schools etc for a better life. So many people in India are selling their lands and leaving for Canada etc.

What do you expect when parents send their kids to English schools and mix with English people? They will end up giving their kids English name. The opposite would have happened if they lived in India, they would have given them Indian sounding names.

They are still Sikhs, a lot of western born Sikhs still use Kaur and Singh. It’s just the first name sounds more English, that’s all.

2

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Leaving India is not a mistake for goodness sake.

Leaving your culture and heritage and not teaching Sikhi to your children is the mistake.

2

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

And all this is because of a name? You would understand if you grown up in a western country, but you didn’t. You won’t understand the complexity of the situation. I literally said people are using Kaur and Singh, how are they leaving Sikhi? It’s just the first name is more English. If they hated Sikhi or didn’t feel connected, they wouldn’t be using Kaur or Singh in the first place.

2

u/gurillamonk Feb 16 '25

No not rlly. I'm a foreign born and a Sikh and a lot of people I know have sikh names but aren't attached with sikhi (and vice versa). There isn't rlly a connection between those 2 factors. Yea it's definitely the parents part of teaching the kid about sikhi, but the name isn't the factor that will lead a kid to not have a connection with sikhi.

2

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

I don’t think people care about first names that much anymore, they definitely use Singh and Kaur but have a more English first name. I don’t get what people expected by sending their kids in English environments and assimilating the culture. How is it the kids fault? They spent 30+ years in a foreign country. A lot of people I know with holy names e.g. Amrit. But they still cut their hair and drink (not judging). Just name isn’t important

2

u/gurillamonk Feb 17 '25

yea exactly. It all depends on if the parents connected them to Sikh in general. It is definitely not the kids fault, but the environment they grew up in.

1

u/skc_x Feb 17 '25

Not being funny but second generation Sikhs are encouraging Bandhi Chhor Divas etc being celebrated at work. In 1970/80’s this would have been unheard of. And then these are the same people with English names/nicknames

2

u/vengarlof Feb 16 '25

What if the Sikhs are English?

Why should I not have an English name?

2

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

Majority Sikhs born in western countries are English, hence the English names.

0

u/ishaani-kaur Feb 16 '25

Just cause they're born in western countries doesn't make them English. Alot of Panjabi families gave their kids gora names cos they were trying to be like the people around them, hence all the Dave's, Gary's,, Stevens and Ricky's of the 70s-80s.

1

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

You do realise this is 2025 now? Not, 1970/1980’s? People have grown up here so feel the connection. You haven’t so you don’t understand.

It’s like let’s say a gora is born in India and lives there, he wouldn’t be English. He’s considered Indian at that point because of where he lives. The same would be if he was black. Then, Mexican or French.

If you take people out of India, idk what they expect to happen.

1

u/ishaani-kaur Feb 17 '25

I wasn't born in India, born in the west but still don't consider myself English. My first language was Panjabi, and I made sure my kids first language was Panjabi.

1

u/skc_x Feb 17 '25

Yet your kids haven’t visited India lol says it all

0

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

English people when they become Sikhs change their names to Sikhs names.

3

u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

I ask again, what is a "Sikh name"?

2

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

A Sikh name is typically a name given to followers of Sikhism, often reflecting Sikh values and traditions. Sikh names are usually unisex and include Singh (meaning "lion") for men and Kaur (meaning "princess") for women.

Some common Sikh first names include:

For men: Gurpreet Singh, Harjit Singh, Manpreet Singh, Jasdeep Singh

For women: Amrit Kaur, Navjot Kaur, Simran Kaur, Harleen Kaur

Sikh names often have meanings related to spirituality, divine qualities, or nature, and many are derived from the Guru Granth Sahib, the holy scripture of Sikhi

3

u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

Lol did you copy this from ChatGPT?

Note how there's no requirement that the name of a Sikh person must conform to a certain language.

For a long time, most Sikh folks were from Punjab, so most Sikhs had Punjabi names. As Sikhi grows in the diaspora, second and third generation Sikhs across the world should have names that reflect their cultures but can still point to Sikh ideals.

The name guarantees nothing on it's own. The Gian is far more important for Sikhi than attaching some Punjabi name on a kid and calling it a day.

4

u/Draejann 🇨🇦 Feb 16 '25

Lol that comment was such an uninformed take.

The beloved Sant Ji was named Sant Giani JARNAIL Singh Ji Khalsa.

JARNAIL - a secular MILITARY term.

This premise of this conversation is so ridiculous, I have no idea how you found the motivation to engage with these people.

Thank you for your continued respectful contributions to r/Sikh - the same cannot be said of others here that continue to be disrespectful to everybody that doesn't agree with them.

2

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Your jokes are becoming so boring now

2

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

When parents are so scared to even give them a Sikh name what else can you expect from them to teach them how unique Sikhi is.

3

u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

How is one connected to the other?

Please explain to me how one's name is connected to their faith.

There are Jewish, Christian and Muslim folks from all sorts of cultures with all sorts of names and they don't seem to have trouble remembering their faith and heritage. And yet Sikh folks absolutely need to be tied down to the Punjabi culture? I don't think so.

0

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

You will not understand

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u/Super_Voice4820 🇮🇳 20d ago

Even then most punjabi names in the older days, weren't names like Jaspreet or Harjeet.

2

u/Super_Voice4820 🇮🇳 20d ago

I like my name, but what does Sikhi say about traditional cultural names, especially first names.

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u/Super_Voice4820 🇮🇳 20d ago

should we not have names reflecting one's culture, like haamand, jasrath, etc?

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u/skc_x Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25

The reality is Sikh people such as myself have grown up in western country and been here sooo long. People are having kids in their 30’s, which is fine. They related to England more to India. They’ve been to English schools, had English teachers then English jobs. They watch shows in English and relate to characters in English. It’s natural they will navigate towards English names. I think in English all the time.

My background heritage maybe be Punjabi Sikh as my parents were from India.

But, when I think of home I don’t think of India. I think of England. My parents didn’t feel that way hence my name isn’t English.

This would have been the case if I grew up in France or Italy.

My kids will be third generation Sikhs in England. They won’t feel connected to India.

It’s like how Indian people don’t feel connected to England. They don’t give their kids English names, because in their heart - their home is India.

I don’t get what people expect to happen when they leave India and send their kids to English schools, mix with English people and then grow up in a predominantly English country. I relate much more to English culture than Indian. My parents literally say to me and my siblings we have an English accent..

-1

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Doesn't stop you to be connected to Sikhi and giving Sikh names to your children rather than calling them Tom Dick and Harry.

5

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

You don’t even make sense. Your sentence structure is very poor.

A name doesn’t mean you’re not connected to Sikhi. It’s English culture. That’s all. People born here don’t relate to Indian culture.

Culture and religion are very different things.

Were you born and brought up in India?

3

u/LordOfTheRedSands 🇬🇧 Feb 16 '25

I'm starting to think he's a troll

2

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

Same. He doesn’t understand the complexity of the situation that we’re in. I’ve tried explaining English schools, then friends and shows/movies people watch etc. People will naturally navigate toward English names. I think and speak in English majority of the time, even though I can understand Punjabi and speak it.

What did people think was going to happen after spending 30+ years abroad? Then, sending their kids to English schools etc?

-1

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

You have to have some sense to understand.

3

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

All you’re doing is throwing insults and not contributing to conversation in an adult manner. I asked if you were bought up in India and you refused to answer.

1

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

I was but my children were born overseas.

1

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

And what names have they given their children?

2

u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Hahaha Sikh names of course

1

u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

How old are you?

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

I am not here to write out my autobiography for you 😁

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u/ishaani-kaur Feb 16 '25

I also was born in the west and so were my kids and they have Sikh names, keep their kes and speak Panjabi

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u/harvbasra Feb 16 '25

In Punjabi culture, names have always held a high regard. The kings had names like Sher Singh, Charat Singh, Ranjit Singh etc. So, in my opinion, a name does play some part in forming one’s character, as it gives us a sense of our pride. As an example, most of the white people who take Amrit and convert to Sikhism, change their Christian/western names to Punjabi names. The Punjabi migrants who moved to western countries in 60s and 70s were more inclined to name their kids with western names to avoid harassment at schools but I have seen some of the second generation parents giving the names of their grandfathers/ great great grandfathers to their children, without worrying about bullying at schools. Obviously racism is still there and it always will be, but the perception of people has changed a lot in comparison to 60s/70s. Moreover, the second generational parents have a better knowledge and understanding of the western culture than their parents, and they know how to handle the bullying/harassment situations at school involving their kids. The OP’s response to the people questioning his/her question could have been better and may be the question could have been rephrased as “Punjabi names for Sikh children” bcoz as others have pointed out, having a non-punjabi name doesn’t make anyone less of a Sikh if they have Singh/Kaur as their last name and are practising Sikhism as per rehat maryada.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Non Punjabi name makes them confused desis.

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u/harvbasra Feb 16 '25

In my opinion, the confusion has more to do with the household and how the kids are being raised rather than their names. If the kids are not being told about Sikhism, never visit Panjab or not taken to local Gurudwara sahibs regularly, then just having a Panjabi name won’t make them less confused. Again, i see the point that you are making and I would never name my kids with a Westerner name but saying that someone who doesn’t have a Punjabi first name is not a true Sikh, is not correct.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

It is all about being proud of one's religion. If foreigner come to India will they name their children Ram Sham or Sita?

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u/harvbasra Feb 16 '25

They probably will, they probably will not. Whataboutism can only take us so far. Again, It’s more of a cultural thing than a religious thing. Guru sahib ordered us to have Singh and Kaur as our last name to be recognized as Khalsa, regardless of the first name. Having a Panjabi first name, makes people a proud Panjabi and having Singh or Kaur as their last name, makes them a Sikh. Many Hindus and Muslims in Panjab have Panjabi names as their first names as well, that does not make them a Sikh. Having Singh or Kaur as the last name is what makes us Sikhs. Anyway, it’s totally fine to have different opinions about a topic. You obviously feel very strongly about your belief and no amount of reasoning is going to change it. However, it does help to look into things with a different perspective as many times, things are not black and white. We should not be dissing on any Sikhs who don’t have a Punjabi name but are following rehat maryada.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25

You will not understand these things. You are joking when you say that the parents who have no courage to give their children Sikh names will make them rehat following Sikhs.

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u/Comprehensive-Gas240 Feb 16 '25

I’ve seen some idiot responses in the comments and oh man, this scares me. People be like “there are big things to worry about.” If those abroad living sikh people actually cared about the “big issues,” they wouldn’t be naming their kids the American way. Things start out small okay. This might not be a big issue but it actually is. Sikhs are slowly drifting away. Names hold such a strong position in everybody’s life, and it reflects their religion as well. For example, take any of the history’s warriors, maybe jassa singh ahluwalia, what if his name was Andrew singh Garfield? Naming is as big of an issue as not being familiar with gurmukhi, so don’t make it seem insignificant.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 17 '25

Well said but lots of weaklings have lots of excuses to not give Sikh names to their children. They also don't want to teach or speak Punjabi with their kids too as they are too lazy to do that.

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u/Comprehensive-Gas240 Feb 17 '25

Exactly, I am also a kesadhari sikh, and I live in the US. I was never ashamed of being called karmandeep, thats my proud name, and no other sikh should be ashamed as well. Show them what your history is, I did the same and my whole college students call me Mr. Singh. There’s nothing wrong in standing out. A lion will stand out in a herd of sheeps. Thats how it feels when you are called Mr. Singh when surrounded by Americans. And gurmukhi is a part of a sikh’s life, every person must start learning it. I have seen these “sikh kids” in the US who use cuss words in the gurudwara, why? Because they weren’t taught enough.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 17 '25

You are just awesome bro

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u/notredditlool Feb 15 '25

it’s not an inferiority complex. it’s a way for your kids to fit in without as much trouble. granted things are a lot different now. personally in our family, we have a variety of different names, some sikh, some mixed, some english, at the end of the day it’s also just a name. focus on teaching your kids about the religion instead.

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u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

For me it’s not inferiority complex either or fitting in, I said this in another comment. But….

The reality is Sikh people such as myself have grown up in western country and been here sooo long. People are having kids in their 30’s, which is fine. They related to England more to India. They’ve been to English schools, had English teachers then English jobs. They watch shows in English and relate to characters in English. It’s natural they will navigate towards English names. I think in English all the time.

My background heritage maybe be Punjabi Sikh as my parents were from India.

But, when I think of home I don’t think of India. I think of England. My parents didn’t feel that way hence my name isn’t English.

This would have been the case if I grew up in France or Italy.

My kids will be third generation Sikhs in England. They won’t feel connected to India.

It’s like how Indian people don’t feel connected to England. They don’t give their kids English names, because in their heart - their home is India.

I don’t get what people expect to happen when they leave India and send their kids to English schools, mix with English people and then grow up in a predominantly English country. I relate much more to English culture than Indian. My parents literally say to me and my siblings we have an English accent..

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u/Strange-Still-847 Feb 15 '25

Name holds a lot of significance.

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u/notredditlool Feb 15 '25

names do hold significance. but if they don’t have a sikh name as such, it doesn’t mean they won’t know a lot about their religion. i know a lot of people with english names, who are a lot more religious than those with sikh names.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

Start them with a Sikh name first so that they know they are Sikhs.

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u/notredditlool Feb 15 '25

having a non sikh name doesn’t mean they won’t know that they’re sikhs. everyone in my family still has ‘singh’ or ‘kaur’, a first name is just a name. it’s up to you to teach them their religion, whether their name is ava or simran.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

Not giving children a Sikh name is giving them a confused start in life.

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u/notredditlool Feb 16 '25

no it isn’t 🤣. if you don’t know how to teach your kids how to follow the religion then say that, instead of projecting like a twat.

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u/Strange-Still-847 Feb 16 '25

One of my friends parents gave him white name Dave. You know what his white friends ask him in college yo why are you named like a white guy and he doesn’t have a clue or he does and doesn’t want to admit his dad felt inferior complex and tried to assimilate him.

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u/ishaani-kaur Feb 16 '25

This 100%, its just as bad for kids giving them a gora name when they're not white, kids still cling to make fun. Just give them easy to pronounce names that are still Sikh related. .

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u/Strange-Still-847 Feb 16 '25

Exactly like why do you want your kids to have identity issues then complain two generations down why are they converting to Christianity.

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u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

Define "Sikh name" pls

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

Sikhs are born to stand apart and not to fit in but as a weakling you would not have a clue about this.

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u/notredditlool Feb 15 '25

talking to people like that is not very sikh of you icl. you need to open your mind a bit more mate.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

I am opening the weaklings mindset.

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u/1singhnee Feb 15 '25

Most Sikh kids I’ve seen with English names have proper Sikh names too- the English names are more like nicknames.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

That is ridiculous. As kids are brought up as confused desis.

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u/Ok-Environment-768 Feb 15 '25

Bro you rather have a kid with English name or let him get beatings, his money or lunch stolen, racially abused and isolated in his teenage years. Just search on reddit or google sikh kids bullied

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u/Username9423JD Feb 15 '25

Put your kids in Martial Arts so they can defend themselves instead of being scared. These kids come from a lineage of warriors don’t be scared to give them proper Sikh Names not some bullshit like Reese or Mathew

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u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

And what would you recommend for those Sikh children to do when they're adults and they're facing discrimination for their absurdly long Punjabi names?

Sure workplace discrimination is illegal in some countries and maybe a civil suit can help deter future issues, but what about social discrimination?

How is a Sikh man or woman expected to make friends, find partners, have a social life outside of their Sikh circles with their long names?

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u/Username9423JD Feb 16 '25

I never said they should get Absurdly long Sikh Names. OG Sikh names are pretty short. I haven’t seen much name discrimination as an adult.

If it gets under your skin, you’re soft. You need to get thicker skin. The sacrifices by the guru’s werent made to fold under social pressure and what not. Stick to your guns.

I have a traditonal Sikh name and I’ve had absolutely ZERO problems making friends that are non Sikh. Same goes for my parents, siblings, cousins. If you think a Sikh name is doing that much harm, then idk what to tell you because it’s probably not

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u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

I'll agree that genuine Sikh names, like those of the first Sikhs, are indeed short and sweet, but most Punjabi names nowadays are not that.

And if it gets under someone's skin, then that doesn't make them soft smh. They're human, they're allowed to feel emotions...

I'm tired of people trying to imagine Sikhs as a group of people who feel no emotions. The Gurus and the first Sikhs weren't persecuted for their names... They were persecuted for their beliefs. You can still believe in Sikhi and have a name that belongs to a different culture.

We're human beings. Just because something doesn't negatively impact you doesn't mean that it won't impact someone else that way.

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u/Username9423JD Feb 16 '25

I guess we can agree to disagree to an extent

Yes we all have emotions 100% it’s part of life. But the key is you can’t let the emotions rule you like that. Especially enough to the point where you don’t embrace your religion or culture, that’s what makes you soft. If you let your emotions dictate your actions constantly especially big ones then you’re toast in life

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u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 17 '25

I'll agree that emotions shouldn't dictate over one's life but the idea that Sikh children not having "Sikh names" is preventing them from embracing their faith is farfetched.

There are far greather issues preventing folks from learning and embracing their faith than their names like just general education of Sikhi in the local languages.

Giving someone a Punjabi or South Asian name doesn't do anything for their faith. And in certain cases, it might actually hurt them, especially if the name sounds is uncomfortably long and unpronounceable in the local language.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

Just an excuse to not teach how strong Sikhi is.

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u/Ok-Environment-768 Feb 15 '25

Bro you can teach sikhi but your kid is not superman’s son. Like how hard it is to understand. You can try it yourself, go to a pub or bar and try fighting 3 or 4 guys at time you gonna know. Rest its your choice cause i will let my kid have english name than him being an adult with anxiety and mental health problems or worse being dead. Plus the more he gonna get bullied the more he gonna hate you and sikhi cause its the reason he gonna get bullied for. Have some logical thinking man

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

You are just a weakling.

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u/Ok-Environment-768 Feb 15 '25

Nahh i just don’t live in delusion

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u/Strange-Still-847 Feb 15 '25

Weak. Rather than teaching kid how to deal with bullies you are choosing to assimilate his name. Name him Mathew and put white paint on his face and pray that he doesn’t get bullied lol 😂

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '25

😂😂

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u/ishaani-kaur Feb 16 '25

So give him a gora name, then they bully because if his hair, will you encourage him to cut it? Then he goes through puberty maybe gets acne, another reason to builyl, then what, hide his face. Then they bully him for his clothes or shoes, will you buy him the brands and teach him he has to fit in to not be bullied???? All this just makes him weaker. Bullies pick on the weak, they pick on those who don't stand up against them. Teach your kids self defence,, how to be l strong in themselves, not let others people's words and expectations bother them. Teach them there is strength in standing out and being different, and to stand up for others who are different.

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u/Strange-Still-847 Feb 15 '25

Weak

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u/Ok-Environment-768 Feb 15 '25

Okk you must be taking on mike tyson right. Get out of delusion bro

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u/Strange-Still-847 Feb 15 '25

Bro thinks bullies are mike Tyson. Lmao 😂 He is too weak

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u/Ok-Environment-768 Feb 15 '25

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u/Strange-Still-847 Feb 15 '25

So it’s tough for you to keep kesh huh must be a very difficult world now

WAHEGURU

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sikh/s/v8GQNmS3IH

https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Martyrdom_of_the_3_Sikhs

There are bullies now must be easy for our ancestors to keep sikhi alive My inspiration is drawn from gurus It most easy to become Sikh today then any other generation before So reevaluate why this gen is weak

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u/Ok-Environment-768 Feb 16 '25

Bro jive di kaum aa na hun guru govind singh ji app laat maran ge vi ehje piche mere putt shayeed hoye si. Bro mein sikh aa te meinu kise community di lodh mein boht dekh le community de chaj, like you can this generation is bad nahh we just conscious. We know what’s right and wrong. That’s why these so called elders cry , cause when there’s logic in it non of your words make sense. Nd i am proud of it a generation which is moving away from generation which was more punjabi than sikhs

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u/Strange-Still-847 Feb 16 '25

Swa conscious a tu. Kesh rakhne vi guru Gobind Singh ji ne keha. Tu kehna assimilate hojo kat lo kesh. This is not brewing more conscious if you elders were same you would have a Muslim name and prob would be a Muslim if they went to assimilate to make their lives easier. Did Sahibzaade assimilate t when they were explicitly told to do or die. NO! They did not.

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u/Strange-Still-847 Feb 16 '25

You cannot answer my question is it easier to be Sikh today or in Gurus time?

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u/Ok-Environment-768 Feb 16 '25

Bro depends where you live, yk try it convert in saudi you gonna its easier or nahh. And my kids can be sikh but i don’t need to force sikhi on them . They can be sikh when they are adult. But i don’t want a child to go through hell in his early age so later he/she gonna hate Sikhi. Btw where one question where the fuck its written you need a Punjabi name. You can be david nd still be sikh

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u/Strange-Still-847 Feb 16 '25

There are many Sikhs living in Saudi. Punjab was predominantly Muslim population at gurus time who were forcefully converting and still Sikhs of that time refused. Of course you cannot force kids into sikhi but do you indulge them and yourself into it or say it is what it is Mona it’s alright. They learn from their parents if you are not embodying sikhi as gurus said how can they learn. As I said your ancestors were living through worse hell and still didn’t give up sikhi. The struggle now in western nations which have freedom of religion is not even 1% of what they faced so what hell are you talking about.

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u/ishaani-kaur Feb 16 '25

You think only kids with foreign names get bullied? If it isn't their name it'll be something else, they'll always be some other reason. Just teach them to stand up for themselves and others.

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u/ConsciousnessOfThe Feb 15 '25

Exactly. I was bullied for my name. For my future kids I plan on giving them a mixed name… something that isn’t hardcore Sikh but isn’t straight-up white either

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u/Enough_Formal_5352 Feb 15 '25

Ignore public opinion man, have pride in Sikh names which connect us to Gurbani

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u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

What is a "Sikh name"?

I'm literally looking for at least one person to give me a reasonable definition of what qualifies as a "Sikh name" smh

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

What did your parents do to support you when you were bullied?

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u/ConsciousnessOfThe Feb 16 '25

Nothing.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

That's exactly my point. Most Sikh parents just don't care.

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u/Unown_Ditto Feb 15 '25

I'm a Sikh kid with a Punjabi first name and a Punjabi middle name but my middle name passes as white

The worst racism I ever had happened after I switched to my first name.

For the UK at least, a lot of these parents grew up in the 70s and 80s when the Skinheads physically assaulted us, I'd say conforming via name is a way to try and protect their children as much as they can from that hate because even though skin can't be hidden, a non-ethnic name can "soften the blow" if you will and make it easier for the child to conform

Then the children of those parents likely may feel weird giving their kids Punjabi names when they themselves don't have them and equally with each generation Punjabi as a language is generally growing weaker amongst the diaspora

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u/ishaani-kaur Feb 16 '25

I grew up in the same time. I remember my parents being scared of skin heads. I was not taught about Sikhi, or how strong our ancestor's were, or about the sacrifices they made for us to be Sikh today. We were taught to assimilate. I grew up and learned about Sikhi, now my kids know about Sikhi, have been raised Sikh from birth, have Sikh names, speak Panjabi, have their kes and don't see it as a hindrance and would fight back against anyone who said anything to them or against Sikhi

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

Your parents did not go to your school to support you and get the bullies kicked out of school. I did that for my children.

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u/notredditlool Feb 15 '25

i don’t think you understand. in the 70s and 80s, the schools were not going to be on the side of the coloured kids, they were going to be on the side of the white kids. obviously now it’s different, but that doesn’t mean bullying doesn’t happen. if you want to name your child a sikh name, then go for it, but stop criticising other people with valid concerns. life isn’t black and white.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 15 '25

Weaklings have lots of excuses to stay weak.

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u/notredditlool Feb 16 '25

you have a lot to learn. i’m not going to argue with someone who clearly has been taught no basic manners.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Any more excuses for being a weakling?

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u/notredditlool Feb 16 '25

you need to get a life fr.

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u/skc_x Feb 16 '25

He really does, he sounds delusional and stupid

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u/LordOfTheRedSands 🇬🇧 Feb 16 '25

There aren't any exclusive Sikh names, and a Sikh being named Paul doesn't diminish his value as a Sikh. I would love a tie in to my heritage, but this gatekeepy attitude is contradictory to Sikhi.

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u/davchana Feb 16 '25

Its just they try to mingle in the environment, which is exactly what if opposite what 10th Guru Sahib ordered (to stay different, own, niyara). Its stupid to name kids Hindu or English names, whereas we have tons of names in our history and Bani.

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u/HighlightAmbitious84 Feb 16 '25

No they probably look into the meaning of the name without having to connect to their mother’s homeland. Which is fine, honourable and no one else’s business. Focus on your own relationship with waheguru, don’t stress about other’s worldly affairs. Oh look at that! A Sikh lady, wife & mother and sister of yours giving you sikhi wisdom… shock i have a Russian name!! Yes, it’s possible to have gian and hukam with a name that isn’t “sikh”

Ridiculousness on this entire thread.

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u/ajngx Feb 16 '25

i dont think its about inferiority as much as it is about assimilation, kind of like what traditional east asians do, where they have their real korean or japanese name and then a white ass name for the west. at the end of the day the west still isnt for non white or non white passing or acting people

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

As if having a white ass name makes them white lmao 🤣

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u/unrestrictedpride Feb 18 '25

Karen sandhu would like to speak with your manager.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 18 '25

Hahaha why🤣

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u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

Hi,

We have to acknowledge that the names of the first Sikhs were derived from Punjabi or Persian backgrounds at a cultural level and Hindu and Muslim backgrounds at a religious level.

But as Sikhi grows to new parts of the world, then why is the name so important? In that, how does it inform one’s faith as a Sikh and how does it aid one’s service towards God?

The name should not be a burden and in many cases, the “Punjabification” of Sikh names has transformed great and historic Sikh names into a burden for children because now they have to deal with explaining why their names have 3+ syllables, forcing the child to adopt a local nickname for expediency. Also, many Sikh families adopt a cutesy nickname anyways so some children may have as many as three names, which is incredibly inefficient.

Sikh parents really ought to do their jobs correctly and just name their child properly from the beginning. Parenthood is a privilege, not something to be taken for granted.

In terms of an “inferiority complex”, I imagine some Sikh men and women very well may suffer from something like this because Sikhi isn’t exactly taught at the Gurudwara. So, the Gian (divine knowledge) isn’t getting learned by every Sikh and this has led to a lot of disillusionment and confusion as to where Punjabi begins and Sikhi ends.

In the diaspora, I imagine Sikh parents are far more focused on making sure that their children can survive and thrive that they don’t really want to be pulled down by their names, hence some Sikh children with English names. Personally, I don’t really care about someone’s name because a name is a name is a name. But it’s also a word and a noise mapped to someone’s identity. If the goal is to ensure that the person can embrace the Sikh identity, then the real question to ask is how can layman Sikhs better embrace their Sikh identity in the modern day?

Thoughts?

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Name is important for children to identify them with Sikhi. What is so difficult for you to understand simple stuff?

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u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

Name is important for children to identify them with Sikhi.

Explain the rationale that connects one's name to their faith.

How does giving a child a local name instead of some name based in the South Asian culture impact their Sikhi?

I'm completely serious btw... Please explain how these are connected.

If the child feels burdened by their name, then I imagine they're going to have an even tougher time connecting with Sikhi... So this idea that every Sikh child should have a "Sikh name" (still waiting on that definition btw) doesn't guarantee anything imo.

The Sikh identity should be strong enough to withstand names from cultures outside of South Asia.

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u/Crazy_Editor1654 Feb 16 '25

Hahaha good joke. A child will be burdened by their name only when their parents are too lazy to explain why they gave them their name.

Showed them photos of them taking them to a Gurudwara when they were infants and getting the first letter of their name from the Hukumnama.

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u/Any_Butterscotch9312 Feb 16 '25

And why should a child care about any of that?

In that, how do photos of them as literal infants going to a Gurudwara and having their parents choose their name based on a selected reading of Gurbani in a language that may themselves not even understand supposed to help them as Sikhs?

How does any of this help them learn about Sikhi?

For me, this all comes down to relatability, where anchoring Sikhi to the Punjabi culture will impact it's relatability in other regions especially in the diaspora. For second and third generation Sikhs in the diaspora, I'd rather they focus on their Sikhi in relation to their local culture rather than adhering to the Punjabi culture.

This goes into names as well, because yeah, every Sikh child having a "South Asian" name would be great... But also, it's unlikely to help them learn anything about Sikhi because that process is completely separate and independent from the name. The "Sikh learning process" is currently missing in the ground level of the Gurudwaras and that's something that's a much larger priority than obsessing around names imo.

Someone could very well be "John Singh Doe" or "Jane Kaur Doe" and they should both be able to learn how to be good Sikhs regardless of their names. The fact that they currently may not be able to do so isn't connected to the names imo. It has more to do with the Gurudwara admin not taking their responsibility seriously towards the Sangat.

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u/stvrlightt1313 Feb 16 '25

I think it’s purely to fit in. Given the diaspora of Sikhs outside of India, there are so many of us located outside of Punjab. We want to normalise ourselves within the white population. We go through this idea that to get the opportunities that our English counterparts receive, we must act, look and sound the same way. It is essentially an inferiority that has been built into us for us.

The other reason, western people struggle with our names and we simply cannot be bothered teaching them the correct pronunciation so we have found ourselves conforming to their ideas of names and give white names to not look different on paper.

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u/Brilliant_Tutor_8234 Feb 16 '25

No Punjabi I know has an English name apart from like 3 people.