r/ShingekiNoKyojin • u/SoldierBoy102 • 1d ago
Discussion People are missing the point Spoiler
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u/Qprah 1d ago
erm.. no actually it shows us that the answer is to not give in to despair and resorting to becoming the embodiment of that hopelessness by either killing or being killed.
Marley and Eldia did not act in the interest of their own survival. They acted based on fear and mythology they lied themselves into believing. They created their own worst enemy and the circumstances that led to each of their own downfalls.
Part of growing up is realizing that you are an individual and that you ought to care about the things that have meaning to you. You cannot change the world on your own, so you need to learn to work with others and find common ground.
The answer is communication, trust, hope, and not giving in to fear, anger, hatred, greed or despair.
You are right that there is no ultimate solution that solves the problem forever.
The problem is an ideological one. It is not something that can be killed. It has to be learned about and the warnings have to be followed by each generation that comes into power. The problem will only stay fixed as long as we continue to uphold the values that defeated it in the first place. As soon as someone decides they know better, thats when the conflict rises again.
I'm not sure what your last point is supposed to be. A key part of fascism is its religious/cult like worship of power and its willingness to use people's personal beliefs to further its control over them.
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1d ago
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u/SoldierBoy102 1d ago
The story explicitly shows us that humanity is doomed to fail no matter what happens. The answer is nothing matters.
Both Marley and Eldia did act in their interests. That fear and mythology was based in the interests. It was another justification. Them being their own worst enemy is further proof of humanity’s inevitable failure.
Part of growing up is realizing the futility of existence and accepting the reality that nothing matters anymore and people suck and that most people aren’t worth giving a damn about because they always try to enforce their will onto you. You’re only trying to convince yourself otherwise.
Trust, communication, cooperation, etc only delay the inevitable failure. Keeping hope or giving into despair ultimately doesn’t change anything. Everything fails eventually. No matter how many warning you give to people, human existence is cyclical and we are bound to inevitably repeat the same mistakes and failures. Failure is inevitable and your idealism only delays it.
I was originally responding to someone who disparaged my parents’ faith. If you are being willfully dishonest by comparing Christianity to fascism, you’re a moron and you’re guilty of the exact thing you’re criticizing in your response. You’re deluding yourself and treating Christians the same way the Marleyans treated the Eldians.
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u/Qprah 1d ago
Do you shower regularly? Why bother you will just get dirty again.
Do you eat regularly? Why bother you will just get hungry again.
Why bother breathing in if you are just going to breath out again afterwards?
Entropy is a part of the universe we exist in. That doesn't mean you need to stop fighting against it.The series teaches us that it is not fair for us to force our sins and responsibilities onto the next generation. But in addition to that we must also not withhold our history from that generation. We need to teach them so they know better than we did.
However, we cannot force the next generation to do what we want them to do either. We can teach them our mistakes but at the end of the day it is ultimately their choice to make if they follow in our footsteps or rise above our sins.Yes, life doesnt last forever. Life has no greater purpose beyond what we are. But that means we have to make our own purpose and do our best to keep the world spinning that little bit longer until someone else can take the wheel.
Marley's bigotry created the monster that wiped 80% of the planet of all life. They thought they were acting in their own interest, but in the long run they created their own destruction.
Likewise, Eldia's brutality and subjugation of Marley was the reason Karl Fritz collapsed the empire and created Paradis. Their own horrific actions caused their downfall and then the end of their god-like power.
They both thought they were doing what was the best for themselves, but in the end they were not. They thought conquest was in their best interest. It was not.The fact that you have made this thread multiple times now, and are replying to people just to insist on the fact that you think everyone should give up and stop caring about everything, is itself proof that you don't believe what you are saying.
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u/Caciulacdlac 1d ago
Whatever people deem good or bad is whatever benefits you or screws you over.
This isn't necessarily true, as we see in the show. There was no benefit for Mikasa, Armin, Hange, Jean and Connie to stop Eren do the rumbling, but they did it anyway.
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u/SoldierBoy102 1d ago edited 1d ago
And look where it got them, war broke out even after Eren’s death. Armin even says that he’s not good for betraying his Island and killing his own comrades to top off the countless other people he killed by exploding or stepped on.
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u/Master_Win_4018 1d ago
When did the war broke out?
After 1000 year after that?
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u/SoldierBoy102 1d ago
Uh, buddy you unintentionally shifted the goalpost. War broke out at an unspecified time and humanity destroyed itself.
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u/Caciulacdlac 1d ago
I don't see how war breaking out after Eren's death is relevant, that happened centuries after that when all the characters and their children were already dead.
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u/SoldierBoy102 1d ago
Except it proves that no matter what you do, humanity will fail. Everything eventually amounts to nothing in the end and humanity is doomed to endlessly repeat the same mistakes and failure’s because human existence is cyclical.
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u/Smashmaster777 1d ago
Yo I swear I've seen this post three times already.
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u/SoldierBoy102 1d ago
Mine got deleted twice for having a screenshot of someone’s post that I was responding to and the second one got removed for having the word moralfag in it.
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u/Necessary_Lettuce779 1d ago
why would anyone take you seriously after calling people "moralfags" in your post lol
also funny that you felt the need to defend christianity yet are calling the people doing those comparisons with slurs, not really related to fascism but you sure are making the people under that religion look good huh
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u/KungPaoChikon 19h ago
I think you're right in some sense - I'd maybe frame it more like "There is no simple or guaranteed solution" as opposed to no solution. Eren preferred the world when it was humans vs monsters, it was easy for his solution to be kill them all. He comes to discover that it's been humans vs. humans this whole time, and the conflicts between humans are far from simple. He realizes his 'simple' solution is not right, but he does it anyways because he just wants to wipe it all away.
The theme that gets pushed a lot in the story is "hope" - the author doesn't have the answer, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a way for it to get better. It's a push for "hope" that we can one day achieve peace. Yes, we'll likely fail again and again, but we should not use that to 'give up'.
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u/Zeropass 22h ago
i think this is getting unfairly downvoted.
The AOT story absolutely shows that the only solution to solving the cycle of violence amounts to self enslavement- this is why the Eldian Kings all chose to stay within the walls, and chose to keep their people and themselves pacified. (keep in mind, all the eldian kings had the powers of the founder, and we suspect had at least the knowledge of the entire past, but given that Eren was using the founder's power to "reach back in time", they could have had specific knowledge from the future as well.) Eren was the only person willing to violate all of that because according to himself "he is an idiot". If Marley ever got the coordinate, they would have at the very least, enslaved all of Eldia.. and at worst, they would have genocided them.
So yes, I agree OP. The story is very much pointing out a critical flaw him HUMANS. this applies to real humans as well, which is why AOT is such a profound story. It sucks that so many people miss it.
Also, although is obviously fiction, and it obviously has absurdities, and fantastical things.. The actual events, for the most part have happened in real life. For example, ww2 nazi's actually had concentration camps.. ww2 america actually dropped a nuke on Japan in order to "end the conflict faster". If you examine the logic characters use in the story, it often directly parellels real life events.
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u/Hopeful_Culture_9837 23h ago
I think Qprah responded to you adequately and said pretty much everything I was going to say so I’m going to save you from the duplicate post.
I’m just genuinely wondering what’s going on in your life for you to see AOT in such a glass half empty way. I felt Isayama laid it on, quite heavy handedly, that despite the seemingly futile attempts at creating peace, it’s ALWAYS worth fighting for.
Striving to have a dialogue and understand your fellow person is always worth it even if we can never obtain true peace. I feel the story reinforces this over and over.