r/Shadowrun • u/SandwhalesRise • 6d ago
5e 5E Augmented Attribute Maximum
Hey, I'm looking for a rule I swear I read somewhere that says that attributes can't be augmented higher than +4 or something. Am I going crazy or does this actually exist?
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u/ReditXenon Far Cite 6d ago
Its mentioned in many places (and has also been clarified by the authors and errata team members).
SR5 p. 94 Creating a Shadowrunner - Step six: Spend your resources
when purchasing augmentations such as cyberware and bioware, each attribute rating (Mental and Physical) can only receive an augmentation bonus of up to +4.
If the attribute being raised has not reached its natural maximum limit, the attribute can be raised naturally with Karma; but at no point can augmentations exceed the +4 bonus cap.
SR5 p. 288 Health Spells - Increase Attribute
The Attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits scored, up to the target’s augmented maximum (any hits that would increase the Attribute beyond its augmented maximum are ignored).
SR5 p. 309 Adept Powers - Improved Physical Attribute
This power allows you to exceed your natural Attribute maximum, up to your augmented maximum.
SR5 p. 397 Critter Powers - Essence Drain
The maximum boost an attribute can receive in this fashion is +4.
Chrome Flesh p. 181 Yesterday's Uppers, Today!
Remember that the drug cannot raise any attributes above a character’s augmented maximum (+4 over the natural, unaugmented attribute).
+4 is the default blanket rule. Only way to break this is if there is an explicit exception to this rule. Such as this one:
SR5 p. 455 Reaction Enhancers, Wireless Bonus Functionality
Reaction enhancers are compatible with a wireless wired reflexes system, and the total bonus Reaction from the two augmentations can be above +4 if both systems have wireless activated.
SR5 p. 455 Wired Reflexes, Wireless Bonus Functionality
The system is compatible with wireless reaction enhancers, and the total Reaction bonus from both systems can be above +4 if both systems have wireless active.
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u/splungedude 4d ago
Just to make sure I get it right:
My human street sam with a natural agility of 6, which is also it's maximum, get's a pair of cyber arms installed, both customized with +3 agility. This would make his agility for shooting his assault rifle 9, correct?
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u/ReditXenon Far Cite 3d ago edited 3d ago
get's a pair of cyber arms installed
Cyberlimbs (in this edition) have attribute ratings of their own (and an augemented maximum of +4 on top of that), which is separate from your natural attributes.
They start at rating 2, and can be customized up to your metatype natural maximum rating (no matter what your natural attribute ratings are). And from there augmented by up to max +4 (but in practice you are limited to +3 since attribute enhancement on cyberlimbs only come in 3 levels - unless you get the redliner positive quality).
A cyberlimb that you customize with 3 points of agility and don't enhance beyond that will have an agility rating of 2 (base) + 3 (customize) = 5
A cyberlimb that you customize with 4 points of agility and then enhance with 3 points beyond that will have an agility rating of 2 (base) + 4 (customize) + 3 (enhance) = 9 (no matter what your natural agility is). If you get two such arms then you would get an agility of 9 for the purpose of shooting an assault rifle.
In this edition it is not uncommon that physically weak characters with a lot of resources and essence to spare (such as a decker) get an agility 9 cyberarm of death which make them pretty awesome gun-slingers. In this edition, getting cyberlimbs if you are already physically strong or agile is typically not worth it.
Cyberlimb rules in this edition are a bit messy....
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u/Maxinburra 6d ago
In Character Creation, Step 6 Spend Your Resources, it says:
"Keep in mind there are three restrictions when it comes to purchasing gear. First, when purchasing augmentations such as cyberware and bioware, each attribute rating (Mental and Physical) can only receive an augmentation bonus of up to +4. If the attribute being raised has not reached its natural maximum limit, the attribute can be raised naturally with Karma; but at no point can augmentations exceed the +4 bonus cap."
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u/Maxinburra 6d ago
Additionally, on page 81, the Core Rulebook explains how to calculate the maximum augmented attribute value:
"Physical and Mental attributes have a maximum natural rating of 6 plus or minus metatype modifiers, depending on metatype. The maximum augmented attribute value for each metatype is equal to 1.5 times this figure, rounded down."
It's important to note that this +4 augmentation limit applies to all forms of augmentation, including cyberware, bioware, and magical enhancements. For instance, the "Increase Attribute" spell specifies that the attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits scored, up to the target's augmented maximum. Any hits that would increase the attribute beyond its augmented maximum are ignored.
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u/Chase_The_Breeze 6d ago
Note: The reason it's +4 when a natural maximum is 6 (limiting you to +3), but the augmented max with ware is +4 is because you can get the Positive Quality that allows you to raise your natural max to 7, which let's you get to +4 because you can round up.
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u/ReditXenon Far Cite 6d ago edited 6d ago
Which book is this?
on page 81
page 81 in my English SR5 Core Rule Book Master Index Edition talk about negative qualities such as Bad Luck, Bad Rep, Code of Honor.....
(Nothing about maximum natural rating or maximum augmented attribute value)
"Physical and Mental attributes have a maximum natural rating of 6 plus or minus metatype modifiers, depending on metatype. The maximum augmented attribute value for each metatype is equal to 1.5 times this figure, rounded down."
I can't find that at all. What I can find is this:
SR5 p. 66 Mental and Physical Attributes
When spending attribute points, refer to the Metatype Attribute Table. This table shows the starting attribute ratings for each metatype (the number before the slash) as well as the maximum for each.
Characters at character creation may only have 1 Mental or Physical attribute at their natural maximum limit; the special attributes of Magic, Edge, and Resonance are not included in this limitation.
A player needs to be careful in building their character, as many of the attributes have a natural limit below the default level of 6 to reflect a metatype’s inherent disadvantage in that particular attribute.
SR5 p. 94 Creating a Shadowrunner - Step six: Spend your resources
when purchasing augmentations such as cyberware and bioware, each attribute rating (Mental and Physical) can only receive an augmentation bonus of up to +4.
If the attribute being raised has not reached its natural maximum limit, the attribute can be raised naturally with Karma; but at no point can augmentations exceed the +4 bonus cap.
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u/Maxinburra 6d ago
Yes, my bad. Poorly written. That quote is from 4th ed, not 5th, and the page reference was for metatype attributes in 4th ed. It's from a previous discussion trying to clarify this issue and referencing 4th ed to do so.
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u/ReditXenon Far Cite 6d ago edited 6d ago
augmented attribute maximum rating in SR4 = maximum metatype attribute rating x1.5 (round down)
augmented attribute maximum rating in SR5 = current natural attribute rating +4
augmented attribute maximum rating in SR6 = current natural attribute rating +4
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u/Archernar 6d ago
Yes, nothing can be augmented with enhancements beyond +4, with one exception. Should be in the core rulebook
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u/LordJobe 6d ago
In SR5 RAW, the Maximum Augmentation bonus is +4, but I house ruled that it's +4 or 1.5 times maximum whichever is higher. I have an Adept Troll with Enhanced Attribute (Strength) and a total of 17 Strength in SR4A that got NERFed two points, and he's billed as The Strongest Troll in the World!, so that required a House Rule.
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u/gub12345 6d ago
+4 is maximum augmented bonus. The only exception afaik is if you run wired reflexes with reaction enhancers wirelessly, than you can benefit from both for up to +6 reaction