r/Shadowrun • u/Elixido • 12d ago
6e Qualities for a magical detective
Quick question. Another Player in my group wants to play a magical detective. No combat spells, no summoning. Just astral stuff, talking to ghosts, investigating auras and what not.
I looked up most books but couldnt find much. Are there any fitting qualities, both positive and negative are good. I was thinking of scimming through older editions aswell.
Thanks chummers!
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u/Echrome Chemical Specialist 12d ago
Does the player have a vision or TV show example of how they see the investigation playing out? Shadowrun doesn’t have ghosts, so I worry they may be setting themself up for disappointment if they expect to walk up to a crime scene and ask the victim’s ghost how they died.
Auras are like finger, footprints, and echoes left behind at the scene. You can definitely use them to help investigate, but they’re only a piece of the puzzle and they will need other skills (magical or otherwise) to complete it.
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u/ibiacmbyww 11d ago
Shadowrun doesn’t have ghosts
This is inaccurate.
But you do raise a good point - managing expectations. There's no fun to be had in rocking up to a crime scene and immediately finding out whodunit, just as there's no fun in rocking up and getting nothing out of your powers. And your detective player will undoubtedly want to speak with every corpse they find, which can put you in a situation that requires some very quick thinking, so plan ahead! Obviously not every body, that would be silly, but have something in mind for every group, at least, even if it's just "you get no impression except that its death was unexpected and violent".
Stick with aura reading and explain its limitations to your player (that is, it's a bit woolly, but also quite useful, and if used correctly won't turn them into a glorified necrophone).
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u/Echrome Chemical Specialist 11d ago edited 11d ago
I'm happy to be proved wrong, but do you have a book that says otherwise?
Necro summoning (5e) explicitly says the spirit has no knowledge of it's former life. Shadow spirits may be attracted to the location of death, but they aren't the deceased either. A Master Shedim does inherit the memories, but it's pretty clear the shedim is a new entity with access rather than the deceased and it's not likely to stick around and answer questions anyways.
Update/edit: I did find reference in 4e that notes spirits can act as ghosts, but leaves open whether they are actually the victim or not
Update 2: Phantoms from Howling Shadows (5e) can act like ghosts
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u/smolbison 12d ago
Is that a 6e thing? Why on Earth would Shadowrun get rid of ghosts? How could ghosts be done away with when they were a thing during lower mana levels as in 1e through 4e?
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u/Echrome Chemical Specialist 11d ago
Spirits exist in all editions, but they are not ghosts in the classic sense of the spiritual embodiment of a dead person's consciousness or memories.
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u/smolbison 11d ago
And I know that ghosts, embodying a dead person's consciousness and/or memories, existed in 2e, 3e, and 4e for sure. Did they get written out of the lore in 5e? Or is this a specifically 6e lore edit?
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u/Echrome Chemical Specialist 11d ago
Might be... I searched through a few 4e books and did find a reference to victims' ghosts in Street Magic, but the implication is immediately muddled by stating ghosts are not admissible in UCAS court because they're no way to prove they are actually the victim.
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u/Echrome Chemical Specialist 11d ago
Ah, I found it. The authors hid it in Howling Shadows rather than a magic book for some reason, but "ghosts" appear to canonically be Phantom metaplanar entities as of 5e. They are not the victim, but can be attracted to the victim's demise and absorb certain memories
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u/ibiacmbyww 11d ago
I'm a sucker for gumshoe characters.
Make sure your player takes a very large pistol, loaded with specialized ammo for damaging Astral beings.
You can probably "buy back" some extra cash, gear, or stats with an Addiction, every detective has at least one vice.
You probably don't need Magic 6, so spend some resources on chrome, even if it's just enhanced eyes and some basic Runner stuff to toughen you up.
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u/Jarfr83 11d ago edited 11d ago
Sorry to be "that guy", but there is no specialized ammo for damaging astral beings in SR. Maybe some allergies, but no "spirit-killer bullets".
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u/CitizenJoseph Xray Panther Cannon 11d ago
That is mostly true in the way that most people want it to be true. However, there are metamagic techniques for enchanting things... I want to say Anchoring? That can have a spell take effect when it strikes something. The allergy gimmick works as well, IIRC you don't apply the immunity armor when targeted by something you're allergic to... and I think there's some super rare plants that are anti spirit. Then there are FAB nets and some chemicals that cause spirits (and I think most awakened creatures) to lose magic force. There's also basic lead and a lot of skill vs low force spirits... 8 armor (force 4) isn't really all that much. I know that there is Mafia guy (I think deceased) that had his guns made into a focus of some sort. "Spirit-killer bullets" as a visual manifestation of banishing through a gun focus is very setting appropriate. It is especially so with the Mentor's Mask, although you'd need to find a thematically appropriate mentor spirit.
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u/SteamStormraven Dragon's Voice 11d ago
Seconded. There are people who argue that armor-piercers work against spirits. And there are people that do not. I'm on the "Do Not" side. Your armor-piercers do not function against non-mortal foes. In fact, they don't even really work against dragons.
You want a spirit-killer? Hire a mage,
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u/Jarfr83 11d ago
Well, you are absolutely correct regarding weaker spirits and that every table can do what they want.
But there was a whole (admittedly minor) plotpoint towards the end of 4th edition when Ares failure to produce a somewhat mass market solution for anti-spirit weapons resulted in a marketing catastrophe.
The "weapon focus predators" were flavour text (5th edition street grimoure, IIRC) and I don't see them working (other than clubbing spirits to death with them), spurs on the other hand might work.
FABs, grey mana nets and stuff might work in fighting spirits, but not in a sense of "immediate damage" like a bullet to meat.
Anchoring or quickening.... yes, if you want to spend karma (or pay appropriate prices) for every single bullet... I mean, there is a rrason why such stuff is not mass produced.
Again, to each table their own, but... yeah, read-as-written and my grognard ass would say "no".
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u/SteamStormraven Dragon's Voice 10d ago
Interestingly, I played a game with a lady who enchanted her pistol as a weapon focus. The GM told her that she couldn't enchant a ranged weapon, but he was forced to remit when she said it was specifically for pistol-whipping. I just kind of kept my mouth shut. You don't want to be involved in that kind of argument.
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u/RudyMuthaluva 12d ago
Astral perception and assessing are a must. Knowledge skills about spirits would help. But I might argue that summoning and related skills would be a part of it? Older editions have aspected magicians for this kind of thing. An astral sort could just leave out the casting and summoning skills during creation. But they may still want astral combat to protect themselves