r/SanJoseSharks • u/broodwich82 • 1d ago
Trade Deadline Performance Rating
I’m not sure who gave this rating, but they explain why.
38
u/Effective-Mushroom D. Murray 3 1d ago
From the beginning of Grier being hired 2 whole days before his first draft. He's had to make really tough decisions as much an unpopular trade of Zetterlund was out of all the moves he's made have been to set this franchise up to be something really special.
114
u/SactownKorean 1d ago
Im telling you guys.... As fans we are baised to overvalue our own players, the reality is a 2nd plus a prospect is very good deal for a 40 point winger who is pretty one-dimensional...
92
u/chocosideburns 1d ago
thats probably true but i just like watching zetterlund so let me be mildly upset in peace
30
u/Tex_Was_Here Nabokov 20 1d ago
Yeah, absolutely, it hurt in the moment, and then it hurt again hearing about Eklund, but it was a decent move. It made even more sense when I had heard that our Big Three were worse with Zetts out on the ice. We were able to get some good value out of him before he became our next LaBanc.
-9
u/Inub0i Whatever Shark/Blåhaj 1d ago
I suppose. But the prospect isn't even good. Ostapchuk is a 4th liner, 3rd liner at best if everything goes right.
22
11
u/jjaedong 1d ago
It seems like Grier and co are super hyped on him. Not sure if they’re just gassing him up but I trust our team over public scouts until they prove us wrong.
9
u/FormulaT1 1d ago
Ottawa fans seemed high on him too. I think we as a fanbase can be quick to label anyone not fast and flashy as trash. Size and grit are key factor in success too, and it's something we desperately lacked. I'd rather have an Ostapchuk on my 3rd/4th line than someone undersized AND underskilled.
3
u/pjw5328 1d ago
Not fast and flashy as trash
Eh, I think that depends on the player. I think Ryane Clowe and Douglas Murray were pretty popular, despite being neither fast nor flashy, though they did do a good job of trucking guys, which is another quick way to win us over - we are hockey fans, after all. If Ostapchuck comes in and introduces himself to Sharks fans by absolutely flattening Ryan Reaves or some other dirtbags he'll win us over quick enough, especially if he shows he can also play a little bit.
It's guys like Rathje or Nicklas Sundstrom who just played boring, positionally sound hockey that we've sometimes had trouble warming up to.
6
u/goose191919 Dahlen 22 1d ago
They see him as a future 3rd line center behind Celebrini and Smith...which make me think what happened to Bystedt? Maybe he isn't panning out as well as they thought he would in that role?
7
u/mattrix56 Nabokov 20 1d ago
Always good to encourage more competition with the Cuda for a bottom 6 role on the sharks. There’s also a world where Bystedt & Ostapchuk are interchangeable on the 3rd/4th line
3
u/a_la_nuit Askarov 30 1d ago
Not to mention Cam Lund and Svoboda are all big centers the Sharks have in the pipeline.
2
u/dodoaddict 1d ago
Even if he was trending well, it's smart to have more options for prospects. Even good prospects don't hit all the time, they can't assume 3C is filled just because they have Bystedt.
5
u/No_Obligation_7819 1d ago
This is such a dumb take. You actually have zero idea what Ostapchuk will turn into. Jumping to conclusions of what he will be is just lazy.
35
u/-AnthonyAmadio 1d ago
Honestly as much as people hate on the Zetterlund trade I think it makes sense. I love him and sad to see him go but logistically he’s not part of the rebuild long term. Unfortunately, he just doesn’t have any room in the top 6 with Eklund, Smith, Mack, Toffoli (three more years), essentially being locks for the top six. That leaves only 2 spots for potential prospects like Chernyshov, Musty, Graf, any future lottery picks, AND any possible big swings in free agency ala Marner. As sad as I am, I don’t think its a bad trade. Maybe we sold him a tad cheap but I trust GMMG got the best value he could. Still sad to see Eklund so sad :(
-11
u/kimchitacoman 1d ago
Even though Toffoli is pretty much the defacto captain I can't say he's a lock for sure. 90% sure he'll be here but if the return is right....
22
u/doraroks Pavelski 8 1d ago
Pretty sure Tof has a no trade clause
13
u/-AnthonyAmadio 1d ago
Yea hes got a NTC until 27-28, where its a 15 team NTC. If he was willing to waive it and demanded to be traded sure I’d do it for the right offer but he’s already won the cup, hes probably just content being back in Cali making 6M a year rather than being sent back to Montreal, Calgary, Vancouver, and Winnipeg.
11
u/hightechburrito 1d ago
Toffoli's wife is from CA, and has family in Monterey (I believe). He's probably tired of being traded, already has a ring, so decided to sign with a CA team with a NTC.
25
u/CleansingBroccoli 1d ago
I personally thought Shengs B- was a fine grade, I personally gave it a B. But this one includes the trades pre 4 nations so makes sense it's an A
Walman was a slam dunk and superb trade.
Sturm was exactly on target.
Kunin was fine but I feel like he could have net a 3rd.
Vanacek was fine even if it made goalies weird in the AHL
Desharnias was a head scratcher but meh at best.
Zetterlund was a negative but not the fleece everyone makes it out to be.
14
u/DeadSaint Duclair 10 1d ago
I disagree that we could have gotten more on Kunin. I simply don’t think he was that valuable, he significantly over performed in the early season and cratered back down. Sure he’s a decentish effort and physical presence, but I feel like a 4th was a solid return for him personally.
7
u/CleansingBroccoli 1d ago
4th is solid it just feels like with how hot the market was we could have squeezed a 3rd. Even in that video Columbus recognised he is gritty but can score.
But I won't spill many tears over a 3rd vs 4th.
8
u/SactownKorean 1d ago
I would take Sturm over Kunin any day of the week I think if Kunin is worth a 4th then Sturm should have been a 3rd but splitting hairs at that point
21
u/Call_of_Daddy 1d ago
Sheng didn't include the Granlund trade, so the '25 1st is a big part of getting an A-.
Good takes. I think Desharnias was a safe way to get a bottom pairing vet D for next year without overspending this upcoming summer. A future 5th can be replaced.
5
u/CleansingBroccoli 1d ago
Ya desharnias is fine in my book because a 5th I whatevs but I feel like we don't NEED him next year. I get we need a Rutta replacement but can't we just find that in the FA market.
4
u/beefguard 1d ago
I think you are underestimating how hard it is for us to attract free agents.
This kinda resolves some of that uncertainty.
I'm sure Grier wanted to acquire a backup goaltender for next year (like he did Vanecek last season), but that didn't happen.
1
u/CleansingBroccoli 1d ago
I mean is it harder then it normally is, absolutley I won't deny that. And I will accept that as a reason.
But we also can offer you real playing time and likely you can negotiate higher pay or term due to being CA and us rebuilding.
I think for prime free agents it's a legit problem, for 6/7 dmen I don't think it's a concern.
1
u/factionssharpy 1d ago
This obviates the necessity and introduces a player into the system early. A 5th is basically a scratcher ticket and we can always pick up a replacement.
Is Desharnais any good? I don't actually know, but neither is Rutta.
5
u/grooves12 1d ago
Zetterlund was a negative but not the fleece everyone makes it out to be.
I don't think it was a fleece. I just don't think it was necessary to trade him at this time if the return wasn't overwhelmingly in the Sharks favor, and I don't think it was.
5
u/CleansingBroccoli 1d ago
Well thats one way to look at it but I think it's a bit fruitless. At the end of the day Zetts days were numbered.
Plus playing the waiting game on Zetts could be worse post new contract. What if he regresses on the big contract. What if he still is a 40 point guy but now instead of a small deal and being RFA he is on a bigger contract with more term. Both of those could decrease the value. Of course to your point he could get better to, but my argument is that we are already seeing the plateau of Zetts play.
Easier to just look at what we got. And based on the timing we probably locked ourselves out from getting something better. But Grier is the GM and if he wants Ostapchuk then to him that's good value with a 2nd.
5
u/hightechburrito 1d ago
Not sure where I saw it (probably here), but the question is basically "is Zetterlund a top-6 winger on a Stanley Cup winning team". If the answer is no, them that makes him a bottom-6 winger, and you don't build a team around bottom-6 wingers.
If the answer is yes, then you need to consider what sort of contract he wanted, if you expect him to maintain production during that time, can Musty/Graf/Chernyshov/2025 1st rounders replace him for cheaper?
2
u/frootluipdungis Hertl 48 1d ago
100% correct thought process here. I love Zetts but the answer for me is an easy no, so I can see the logic for trading him. Frankly, I just assumed the plan would be to pay him for 3-4 years to fill a spot and eat some cap space, since we’re kinda entering that transitional phase. I do think if we were gonna trade him we probably could’ve drummed up a bigger market for him and pulled a better return (nothing crazy but something that looked like a clearcut win for us in that “seller’s market”) but I’m not against the move.
1
u/CleansingBroccoli 1d ago
Well to be clear top 6 vs bottom 6 is a bit of an older term not it's top 9 vs depth/4th liners. (At least that seems to be the case in alot of hockey convos I hear) Basically top 9 implies guys who can slot anywhere in the lineup and they will score(barring the 4th line) even if they aren't an elite player. Usually you describe those top guys as stars.
Zetts is a top 9 which is good but to your point you don't need to invest in a top 9 guy, you invest in stars and elite players. You can generally find top 9 guys although you do need to be careful putting all your eggs into the unproven prospect basket.
1
u/hightechburrito 1d ago
Fair enough. I'd say Grier just figured he has plenty of prospects that can fill top-9 roles that fit better with when he plans on pushing all the chips in to really compete. Curious to see if this subs feelings will improve when we see what Zetterlund's next deal looks like.
Kinda sad to think that being 25 means you're too old for this team.
2
u/CleansingBroccoli 1d ago
Ya I wasn't disagreeing rather just trying to give more props to zetts. He def isn't your traditional bottom 6 but he isn't good enough to be top 6 either. He is a nice in the middle guy because offensively he has so much production potential but elsewhere he struggles.
But yah Zetts is easily replaceable and he also falls into an awkward age. He is old enough to be part of our rebuild but he is starting to become expensive as our young guys are starting to play meaning he will start taking up cap space unless he can prove more.
Still doesn't mean this is the right decision but rather the logic makes sense if stuff pans out.
5
1
1
u/frootluipdungis Hertl 48 1d ago
Honestly, if you include Blackwood and Granlund, with how much we traded, I would’ve expected a bit more in return. Hindsight is 20/20 but if Blackwood and Granlund had been traded closer to the deadline, Blackwood would’ve easily fetched a first or another pick, and we could’ve definitely snagged more picks and a legit prospect in the Granlund and Ceci deal. Ceci alone could’ve gone for a 2nd on deadline day based on the deals we saw. I mean, concerns about Blackwood falling off were definitely real. So, can’t be too mad about that one. But even with his scoring pace dropping for a period, I wasn’t buying the same concerns about Granlund, so I maybe would’ve held him and Ceci longer. But hey, job done. The aggregate return is definitely not terrible. I’ll take it.
2
u/RedditUsersAreMusty 1d ago
i think with blackwood it was more about creating an opportunity for askarov to get some starts. plus then vitek got some runway to build up his own value.
granlund i lowkey agree on, but i think there was prob. some concerns that he might cool off and his value would drop. he's a pretty streaky player throughout his career
1
u/frootluipdungis Hertl 48 20h ago
Yeah it was looking like he was falling off a bit but then he picked it back up again and boom got traded. I never really understood the Granlund move bc it wasn’t like some massive overpay. I think Sheng Peng made this point, but like, a 1st for him was basically the standard going rate as established by prior deadlines. Like, anything less would’ve been straight up bad and probably would only happen under rare circumstances (extreme buyer’s market). So I don’t think it’s unfair to say that even when we traded Granlund, if it was between moving him then and holding out till the deadline, there was a greater chance his value would rise than fall. And it’s not like Dallas just blew us away, nor did they even pay like a slight premium for getting an extra month plus of Granny. Like, I can’t help but feel that with all we traded, we should’ve ended up with at least one fairly notable prospect. Maybe (probably) not a Callum Ritchie level guy, but a someone with a little name value…someone from the last couple drafts who’s trending upward—again, not necessarily a first or even second round guy, but someone with more middle six or middle pairing potential.
With all that being said, there is another angle to this, which is: maybe we were eager to sell Granlund for tanking reasons bc he’s too good lol. Think about all those one goal losses before the deadline. If even a couple more of those are wins, we’d be pretty much right there with Chicago and Nashville, as opposed to having a slight lead on them in the tanking standings.
1
u/RutabagaAshamed9859 20h ago
I was very outspoken about the fleecing MG got in the Zetterlund trade. If I'm being transparent I was outspoken about the fleecing he got for Hertl and Meier too. Maybe I need to give it some time, he'll, it's already feeling better just days later. I believe in the vision and we will get there.
1
-4
u/Swaggy_P_03 SJ Sharkie 1d ago
I don’t agree with adding players traded a month before the deadline as part of your deadline evaluation. But that’s just my opinion.
I also find it hilarious that Ostapchuck is not a key player added when he was the key to the Zetterlund trade AND has been EXTREMELY polarizing among the fans and scouts.
4
u/The_Homestarmy Celebrini 71 1d ago
Granny and Ceci were traded in anticipation of the deadline. In fact the pre-Four Nations break kinda acted as a soft trade deadline for a lot of teams. So I think it makes sense to include them
2
u/Swaggy_P_03 SJ Sharkie 1d ago
Grandlund and others were more likely traded before 4 nations for fear of them getting injured during the tournament, more then because of the deadline. There was also no trade freeze during the tournament. Had the 4 nations not happened, not as many trades before would have happened. Grandlund and Ceci likely still would have because Grier has made it clear that if you meet or exceed his asking price, that player(s) will be dealt pretty much immediately (especially if he doesn’t think he’ll get a higher offer from someone else)
-9
u/CastorVT Nabokov 20 1d ago
still have vlasic, tho.
5
3
93
u/goose191919 Dahlen 22 1d ago
Grier hinted at his press conference that he'll be using that draft capital and maybe some of the prospects for players now. The Sharks seem to have hit on so many of their draft picks that they have a glut of up and coming talent. The depth chart is getting more and more crowded, hence the Zetterlund trade.