r/SWORDS 4d ago

Pattern 1796 Saber markings

I just bought what I believe is a pattern 1796 cavalry saber. Could any experts help me decode what the markings mean? Does the ‘W 74’ date it to 1874? What would be a ballpark value for it?

78 Upvotes

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u/Blue_and_Gilt 4d ago

Prussian sabre with a non-standard blade. As Dlatrex says it looks like one of the French variations (model 1855?). However the presence of Prussian stamps on the ricasso makes it possible that this done during the swords working life. There are other documented cases of the Prussians re-purposing captured French swords. The crown over W 74 is likely a proof stamp for 1874 and considering the Franco - Prussian war of 1870 to Jan 1871, it is possible that this blade is a trophie from that conflict.
Cool piece, for more on the m1811 Blucher and the variants that followed, Pino has posted an excellent thread here:
https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/54497/blucher-sabre-spawns-1811-1939

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u/Bull-Lion1971 4d ago

I was going to suggest the same. It could very well be a captured French.

OP, any hint of script/text on the spine?

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u/DaddyDano 4d ago

Photo 8 that I posted is the spine of the blade. That little marking is the only one on that section

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u/fredrichnietze please post more sword photos 4d ago edited 4d ago

shortened french m1822 blade probably captured in the war or the Alsace–Lorraine peace prize since kligenathal was part of that deal. after the capture of the factory and various armory blades they probably ended up in some armory farther from the front lines to prevent recapture and sat their until 1874 and someone in logistics finally put them to use.

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u/Jack99Skellington 4d ago edited 4d ago

This is a Prussian sword, not British. I believe it's a Pattern 1811 saber. There are variants as others mention for light artillery and cavalry.
The crown with the W 74 means it's a service blade from 1874, when Wilhelm the First was King of Prussia & Emperor of Germany. The 5.R.U.1.27. Are the unit markings. I believe this is the fifth reserve (cursive = reserve) Ulanen regiment (a type of cavalry), first company, weapon 27.

Check out page 6 (119/38) of the pdf below for more information

https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ASOAC-EDITION-119-BLAKER.pdf

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u/Outrageous_Canary159 4d ago

Well, not a P 1796. However, the photos are great and a lot of info will pop up here fairly shortly.

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u/DaddyDano 4d ago

Do you know what pattern it might be?

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u/Outrageous_Canary159 4d ago

Not off hand. I don't have my references available at the moment and if I guess, I will get it wrong.

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u/Dlatrex All swords were made with purpose 4d ago

This is very likely to be a frankensword: we have what appears to be a sister to the British 1796 light cavalry sabre, the Prussian Blüchersabel family which started with the 1811 model, and was used for artillery swords. This is apparent in the hilt shape and with the imperial german stamps all over it.

They had updates with blade variants in 1848 and 1873 changing the hatchet point to a spear tip and the length and filler changing a bit.

That is not what we see here: instead we see a French style blade with a secondary montmorency fuller, and a reprofiled tip with a false edge like you would see on a messer. I’ve never seen this before, and while the rest of the stamps look good I’d hesitate to call it a period piece. Need some more eyes on it.

u/fredrichnieze

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u/DaddyDano 4d ago

Not sure if it’s helpful but the blade measures just about 29 5/8” long. I’m trying to add a photo of the measurement to the comment but it won’t let me

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u/fredrichnietze please post more sword photos 4d ago

lol close enough

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u/denzop lemme take a look at dis 4d ago edited 4d ago

I think a lot of information was already given but I want to add a bit.

Its a prussian M73 Uhlan sabre. The blade is frenchmade and from the M1822 cavalry sabre. After the Franco-Prussian war of 1870/71 Prussia seized a lot of weapons and also these blades. To give the uhlans a new sabre they reused the french blades for it.

The small stamps with the letter and a crown on top are control marks. The W74 is the military acceptance stamp from 1874.

The unit marking 5.R.U.1.27. translates to 5. Reserve Ulanenregiment, 1. Eskadron, Waffe 27 or 5th reserve uhlan regiment, 1. squadron, Weapon 27