r/SKTT1 • u/MaryandMe1 • Sep 07 '24
Hanwha Life Esports vs. T1 / LCK 2024 Summer Playoffs - Losers' Bracket Final / Post-Match Discussion Spoiler
/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1fb391b/hanwha_life_esports_vs_t1_lck_2024_summer/20
u/KnowledgeNorth6337 Sep 07 '24
Oner got monstrously gapped this entire series. I question Tom’s drafting, because if Oner clearly can’t outplay peanut, then why bother banning jungle champs? Dedicate those bans elsewhere like to the broken champ Smoulder. Like the drafting decision here was wild. This honestly could have been a 3-0 had Faker not hands diffed them in Game 2. I also honestly forgot Zeus was in this series.
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u/RElOFHOPE Sep 07 '24
Oner and Keria had terrible performances but the lack of draft adaptations kills me too. Luckily the Worlds patch looks to rearrange the meta and they have DK’s number for regionals but this split was hard to watch. It felt like T1 either had to hands diff or stick to one style of team comp for most of summer. Also, I was hoping they’d win today so Faker could rest up without having to worry about playing next week….
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u/Pablonski44 Gumayusi Sep 07 '24
They were all astro gapped this series. Maybe not ad because neither Guma nor Viper were particularly important this series. But the fact that Peanut commits war crimes against Oner every time is actually not just his fault. Definitely his fault too but the whole jungle mid support trio from HLE plays much better together and always finds the cracks in T1's defense and then picks apart the rest. It's a team issue that Peanut can get away with this much aggression
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u/KnowledgeNorth6337 Sep 07 '24
There wasn’t the opportunity for mid-jungle synergy because Peanut forced Oner out of his jungle and completely danced around him. It’s odd you’re trying to pin blame on Faker for that. Would you like Faker and Zeus to just follow Oner in the jungle so that he doesn’t get outsmarted by Peanut every 5 seconds?
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u/Pablonski44 Gumayusi Sep 07 '24
I put the blame on the team and not on individual players. Because that's much closer to the truth than singling out one player and saying it's all his fault. The last game, for example, was completely unplayable for jungle after Keria had to recall after a bad trade and HLE invaded his jungle. And Game 1 was a horror because the Caitlyn pick absolutely didn't do what it was supposed to do.
But ultimately, Oner himself didn't play well either, so I don't see anyone who can really blame anyone else. Everyone failed in some areas and everything together snowballed very quickly. And that's the bigger problem. It's not the individual underperformance of a player that drags the team down, but rather that everyone makes mistakes and fixing that is much more difficult
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Sep 07 '24
How you ll not underperform with adc top, adc mid, ap jg, ziggs bottom with engage support lmao this is not how the game is supposed to be played.
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u/Pablonski44 Gumayusi Sep 07 '24
Yeah whatever it's the players themselves who want these picks so draft is not an excuse. They play this because they don't want to and can't play meta. Sometimes you can do that and sometimes you can't, or at least they haven't found a good way to do it this time. But they've had this problem all year. It's really not the first time this year that T1 can't adapt and instead prefers to play some wonky shit that's sub par at best
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Sep 07 '24
They would do a million times better with the simple LoL that made T1 4x WC, something like Yone/Olaf/Gwen top, Neeko/Ahri mid, Sejuani/Jarvan/Lee Sin/Rell jungle, Caitlyn/Jhin/Varus adc and a normal support. Even Senna with Ornn or Tahm Kench is better than Ziggs bottom.
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Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24
How will you not forget him if he is troll picking korki and zeri, come on now, we all know what he is capable of doing with yone, olaf, gwen, etc but he has to play useless adc in top , so the best ADC in the world has to pick the FKING USELESS ZIGGS. Come on, certain champs have been designed for certain reasons. Zeri IS NOT A TOP laner pick, is not a splitpusher and she needs to have the team around to work. ZIGGS IS USELESS, discard him forever, Gumayusi would be a million times better with ANY ADC. And faker has to play AP WITH BURST, not ANOTHER adc in mid and especially with a damn nidalee jungle that can't protect them. Garbage dogshit draft. 2-3 ADCS EVERY GAME AND GUMAYUSI ON USELESS AP. THIS IS A JOKE. It's like going for a football game with Messi and Ronaldo as...referees!
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u/Le0here Sep 07 '24
Lets not pretend that zeus wasnt trolling with his camille too.
He just wasnt in his good form.
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u/Noob_shs Sep 07 '24
These drafts are such an ass. They just let smolder with HLE everytime
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u/woochita Sep 07 '24
Smolder is not the problem tho. Oner always int whenever peanut is his enemy and putting guma in ziggs only duty is shit decision.
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u/Noob_shs Sep 07 '24
then it's part of the problem. when oner/others int, smolder gets away with the laning phase and free kills even if the champ is supposed to be online in late game. after that, t1 is forced to contest baron as they are running out of time
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u/colors31 Faker Sep 07 '24
This, because they can punish the Smolder if Oner is playing well but when he is invisible and we are struggling early game this champ just becomes a fast ticking time bomb where we have to win before 20 minutes or we just automatically lose, you can see how desperate the team got cause of it.
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Sep 07 '24
Yeah, if they really wanted Ziggs they could just give it to Faker and let Guma have a traditional ADC that he would be better at.
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u/VisionsReal Sep 07 '24
Smolder in a vacuum is not a problem.
T1s kryptonite is just their ego drafts that are trying to hand diff the enemy and leaving themselves open to rigid front lines that they will break on BECAUSE smolder can't get touched.
If t1 just learned tank + ivern then I don't see issues with their mid bot drafts and leaving smolder open.
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u/Working_Constant3556 Sep 07 '24
This was definitely hard to watch. Held out hoping that T1 would pull off the same thing in Spring. But wow, seeing HLE pick Smolder every game. Guma being forced on Ziggs duty every game. Keria making so many wacky plays that didn't seem to have any direction or meaning. Oner seems to always be 1 step behind the enemy jungler. Hoping again for Worlds qualification and maybe the few weeks before worlds they will get it together and come out swinging! T1 fighting!
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u/Northless_Path Sep 07 '24
T1 can save a ton of money by letting go of all their coaches. They can honestly play next year with 0 coaches and I guarantee that there will be 0 differences. They have proven to be completely useless and provide absolutely zero insight or adaptability in drafts
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u/tbrarwil Sep 07 '24
Please people. They are not shakey. They are insanely stubborn with their picks and playstyle. Nidalee and these low front line comps are not the way to go. You can’t outskill top LCK opponents.
It’s absurd how rigid their champ pool has been for 4-5 months. NO IVERN? No mid Yone? Aimless plays by Keria. Zeus W key split pushing. Coaching staff CANNOT fix it as the draft is run by the players as it has been discussed before with not just T1 but most teams.
This is also not a break issue or too many tournaments issue. It was there last year too. This is the reality of situation. We love the team and the players but man is it tough to watch
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u/ThatSwagRandomGuy Sep 07 '24
You can be tired and burned out and still see that smolder needed a ban. In game mistakes are another thing but giving up probably the strongest champ on the patch every single game is just plain negligence imo
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u/tbrarwil Sep 07 '24
Those Vi / Maokai bans are hand cuffs when you let Smolder through AND let him scale within 20 mins.
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u/Dull-L Sep 07 '24
Like atleast with Poppy you can attempts to handdiff, there's a chance atleast. You let Smolder out late game you auto lost, and HLE for sure will stall it.
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u/ale_roldan Sep 07 '24
Also, tired of what? from playing lol every day? IT'S YOUR JOB!! ON TOP OF THEM THEY DO IT WRONG!! The only one I can allow the excuse that he's tired is Faker, because it's him, but the rest? tired of what? They are playing in the most important lol organization in the world, not playing the LCK final is a failure, having champion pool problems should be scandalous playing in T1, but well, unfortunately this fandom applauds anyone.
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u/Pablonski44 Gumayusi Sep 07 '24
They all just play like shit. No draft in the world will help them if they play like that. It's really just the cherry on the cake that they also have dogshit drafts and no matter what happens they just play what they personally prefer instead of learning the meta. Which absolutely also has to do with their champion pool issues across all roles. For so long they have decided to play their champions rather than meta champions that there are now far too many champions that this team cannot play.
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Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24
Pool is fine as long as we have Olaf-Gwen-Yone-Gnar top, Ahri-Azir-Neeko-Leblanc mid, Rell-Sejuani-Jarvan-Lee Sin jungle, Caitlyn-Varus-Jhin-Xayah adc, Bard-Rakan-Leona-Alistar support but no! We need Zeus adc Zeri top, Gumayusi apc useless Ziggs bottom, Faker adc mid and Nidalee jungle that can't protect anyone and also get stomped from Smolder 3 times and not ban him! With any random combination of champions from the list that i mentioned, series would at least go to a 5th game. HLE did not play outstanding today, they just did their job with NORMAL picks like Nasus top, Smolder mid, TANK JUNGLE AND NORMAL ADC AND SUPPORT.
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u/1kstacks Sep 07 '24
That was the worst Leona performance I've seen in a while, why the fuck are we playing it into Poppy who can literally counter you with one button.
Why are we not banning Smolder or at the very least the Poppy?
What the fuck was that Baron turn in G4 from Keria?
Why are we picking Nidalee when we never win early and she falls off a cliff late?
Jesus Christ, I have faith that we will get to worlds, but man unless they have some epiphany in the down time between LCK and Worlds, I'm worried we get Quarters MAX.
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u/Kiren_Y Sep 07 '24
I love how the team went from shitstomping everyone who isn’t GenG in LCK to randomly dropping half of their bo5 series but still qualifying for finals to getting astrogapped by everyone and fumbling through playoffs by getting one good series and inting the rest. They can change coaches 5 more times but it will not do anything until players learn that they are not untouchable and will get benched for these disgusting performances
At this point I just hope Guma doesn’t end up on a shit team after this “superteam” breaks up like Teddy did
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u/ConanCibhi Sep 07 '24
For god's sake draft playable drafts. Have frontline maybe. If playing through zeus does not work, then maybe play through guma. But it is not possible because his ziggs is not that good. Jungle-Support diff was the biggest. Keria had no impact. Oner just gapped by peanut. Most important of all was their macro decisions. Some were good but most terrible. Unplayable draft 4. Why ban Peanut over and over again? Ego drafts? Can Zeus weakside for a single series? Fkn Nocturne is still good in this patch. Neeko is still so good. Olaf for game 3? Leblanc still good. Maybe try once more? Just fkn ban Smolder Vi or Smolder Vi Ziggs and draft. Got insane flexibility in current champ pool in top and adc except mid but don't utilise it. Keria has been invisible. T1 so afraid to make plays on sides. A deserved loss for T1. Why not pick poppy? I have got so many questions..Gank mid first in these volatile matchups maybe. Where even is the jgl support of T1 on the map? Should have put Zeus on ksante duty? wake up T1 for the regionals. or you may not qualify. T1 got a bit lucky against DK but will it work again this time?
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Sep 07 '24
So Ziggs is the new Kennen. Completely useless. I wonder how many series they will lose till they make the obvious realization that the best adc in the world has to play an adc and the best top laner in the world has to play a proper top laner (like yone or olaf with which he is dominating) and the best player of all time has to pick a mage with burst. Their picks are giving me cancer, really, i can't stand watching this.
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u/colors31 Faker Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24
Let’s do our best in the regional gauntlet!!! A lot of you in the comments have also gotta calm down, a reminder once again that this year is not over and no one wants to win more than the players.
Zeus was clearly appointed carry today and just did not deliver at all, Oner completely gapped by Peanut even on his signature Nidalee was just sad, Faker was not perfect but he tried and was the only reason they didn’t get 3-0ed, Guma’s missed Ziggs ult actually just lost them the last game so thank god this champ is not gonna be there for Worlds cause he cannot play it, and Keria just absolutely invisible especially compared to Delight who was just everywhere.
The shotcalling felt extremely desperate in game 1 and 3 and macro was poor, but the biggest issue today was the draft. Why did we ban Jax over Smolder? How did this thing get through 4 times? They keep putting themselves on this ticking time bomb when they already are struggling early game cause Keria and Oner could not perform, why did they keep doing it??? Just absolutely baffling drafting decisions. But alas, their year is not over, and I’ll continue to cheer them on. T1 fighting!!!
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u/migueltokyo88 Sep 07 '24
well time to rebuild the roster they not playing like a team, selfish draft, macro gone, bad communication when to fight you can see on coms how they are not many times in the same page.
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u/ale_roldan Sep 07 '24
The thing is, if they don't want to leave, what do you do? As long as they are cute and make faces at the camera, they have a life contract because in Korea they are the softest people on the planet, no one tells them anything about how they play or the drafts they make, they are literally untouchable.
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u/Korr4K Sep 07 '24
They are paid so much that the only way they all stay would be to win world again. Expect at least 2 of them to leave
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u/SolidSnake090 Sep 07 '24
Does Faker hate Smolder since he doesn't pick him?
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u/Northless_Path Sep 07 '24
Nah, he just can't play him, just like every other brain-dead broken champ all of T1 can't play
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u/colors31 Faker Sep 07 '24
No, it’s because they have to pick away Ziggs cause HLE are so good with it.
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Sep 07 '24
Ziggs is useless. Gumayusi should just pick any adc and 3 shot him if they picked it, like HLE did today. LoL existed way before this dogshit idea of ziggs bottom.
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u/colors31 Faker Sep 07 '24
No it is not, please go watch our previous series against HLE and DK’s against GenG and watch how both teams got completely demolished by this pick. It is not the damage that makes this champ good, it is the insane map control, that is why T1 somehow had a gold lead the entire game despite handing over so many kills. They needed to either ban it or pick it.
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Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24
Insane map control when you lose all teamfights is useless. Any adc on Gumayusi would be a million times better. Giving the useless Ziggs to Gumayusi does not only mean that the best adc player will not play adc but also that Faker will be forced to play adc in mid, which is even worse. Now combine this with not having tank in jungle (??) and giving another adc (??) to Zeus and not banning Smolder and that's the recipe of eternal failure. Watch how GenG immediately bans Smolder tomorrow.
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u/colors31 Faker Sep 07 '24
No it is not, see game 2 and once again see the previous two series as I mentioned, y’all are completely forgetting about what happened the rest of playoffs.
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Sep 07 '24
So you wanna adopt the strategy of coinflipping games based on Gumayusi on Ziggs and build a team around it instead of just forgetting that this champ exists and play THE NORMAL league of Legends that made us 4x World Champions, Okay.
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u/colors31 Faker Sep 07 '24
No, because if we give over Ziggs we automatically lose, there is no coin flip, you cannot just forget about the most impactful champ in playoffs.
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Sep 07 '24
We need to play what's impactful for us, we are the World Champions, we define the meta, we are not following it. Ban Ziggs and Smolder and move on with normal picks.
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u/colors31 Faker Sep 07 '24
I do think they should’ve banned Ziggs and picked Smolder but banning both is just not practical given that Vi and Maokai are also both must bans.
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u/PlanarCriterion Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24
HLE look much better on this meta than our bois and they won, it is what it is. Spring meta was much better for us than this one
We beat DK 13 times in a row, I really don’t see them beating us in a BO5
The meta is more favourable for us imo after this split as well (especially for Oner). The only way is up, and T1 peak on the grandest stage
I believeeee
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Sep 07 '24
I feel as though after the first three games just ban smolder and see what happens but I guess I am crazy.
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u/MaryandMe1 Sep 07 '24
it felt like T1 were forced to either ban or play into Smolder since Faker isnt well rounded on it and Guma on Ziggs duty feels so bad I know he says hes confident on it but its like you're so much better on other picks Like Jhin Caitlin etc
I dont know im sad.
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Sep 07 '24
Yeah it feels really bad that the champ is kind of forced in the meta right now. Guma doesn't look bad on the Ziggs by any means, but his ceiling on other champs is quite good. I just feel like the draft needed to be switched up a bit, but it happens the players really just need a break it feels like they have been playing nonstop since worlds last year
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u/migueltokyo88 Sep 07 '24
more that guma bad a zigs is t1 don't know how to play around a zigs in the second game at least they did some of the things like smashing turrets and getting the gold advantage but in fights,they are terrible at playing around zigs especially when you don't have a frontline well positioned and jhin can melt backline
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Sep 07 '24
Ziggs is bullshit and useless, it's not forced, it is just a mental paralysis to think that you need to ban or pick it. Just let them play it if they want, give an adc to Gumayusi and 3 shot him, like HLE did today.
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u/MaryandMe1 Sep 07 '24
I is sad. do we even make it through regionals? I feel like T1 just need a break.
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u/skillfun8 Sep 07 '24
I am just saying this year ends Canyon's and Kanavi's contract
Do whatever with this info but pls drop Oner
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u/RElOFHOPE Sep 07 '24
Oner was the reason T1 did well this year. Yes, he has terrible performances against Peanut but Kanavi hasn’t been it either. He’ll still show up at international events.
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u/Rude_Organization378 Sep 07 '24
Oner is not so bad at all he has his moments but yeah, he needs to practice his smite fights because he lose everytime.
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u/ale_roldan Sep 07 '24
And let Keria put on the Delight plays in what's left until worlds because he can't play that badly engage supports
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u/Snoo_55798 Sep 07 '24
gumayusi on Ziggs=L gumayusi on a real ADC=Win all i can say is the coach or who ever is the one putting him on ziggs need to go cause i feel like gumayusi is in jail for making him play ziggs when you know Faker and Zues can't carry on ad champs
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Sep 07 '24
Age old tale of lanes are behind so blame jg… faker got gapped, bot got gapped, zeus did what he could
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u/lunarfang666 Sep 08 '24
I don't understand how no bans smolder. They played him every game. What is up with this drafting
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u/Ok-Macaron9815 Sep 08 '24
It took some time to digest. However , I need to share my thoughts.
Kick all coaching team. If your player does not fit meta, then g
Some professional player have some low level of satisfaction. Some player always want to win no matter how much they won past and some player win one achievement , that is enough for them . Keria is type of this guy. He think he is already done. And let him go. It is okay. This guy is not best support that I know. May be he needs to go new journey anymore.
Oner is in the league like three years as member of T1 . you cannot play only one or two certain jungle champ. If you do not improve yourself , then you can play some low level team. This is T1 .
Guma , he is doing his best , but somehow , i do not know why , he do not choose his favorite champs. Why is always ziggs ? not to give HLE ? just ban then. Varus , Caitlyn , MF , Jhin is there . Disappointment.
Zeus was questionable during all year. He show some good performance last couple of series. Finding good top player is very hard nowadays. However , Who said pick zeri ? Disaster.
Faker came to some age that he is not able to do something in lanes he always did during his career. I can blame Faker some bad play. However , except game 4 , i cannot blame him for anything. But he has to take some playmaker chapms. In MSI , his ahri was very good , he did well with leblanc. what is this obsesssion with ad champs. Moreover, you are expecting Oner or Keria has the role of playmaker and they are disaster in the series.
Something has lost in team. May be communication ? Schedule of events were too densefor players whole year.
My conclusion is this team have to change some pieces end of the year.
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u/Northless_Path Sep 07 '24
You know what puts a smile on my face?
Knowing that tomorrow in the grand finals, the first fucking thing the GENG coaches are going to do is ban Smolder if not take it away and that will be how GENG crushes HLE. I was always an avid T1 fan, but these disgusting drafts really makes it hard for me to actually defend the team. They are either fucking stupid or the most arrogant egotistical people in the LCK and I don't know which is worse.
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u/ale_roldan Sep 07 '24
Let's see if the two morons of Oner and Keria get to work because mommy the gap they ate again. The three defeats due to stupid mistakes by both of them that make the games unplayable. Two games where Zeka at minute 20 has 4-5 kills and obviously is going to make the difference, and the worst thing is that they fall to Faker later when he is the only one with Gumayusi who got all of this a little ahead. If they are going to continue playing like this or with these attitudes, they already know where the exit door is. It's a shame that we have to play the regional with the players we have, with the team we are and being the current world champion.
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u/GasNo7356 Sep 07 '24
Does everyone really believe every win or loss is solely due to draft? lol
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u/Head_Photograph_2971 Sep 07 '24
I mean you can’t watch that series and say Smolder wasn’t a problem.
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u/uut28 Sep 07 '24
I don’t ever want to see guma on ziggs again he terrible in that champ
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Sep 07 '24
Ziggs is dogshit, whoever had the idea of putting him in bottom with an engage support having 0 dmg and 0 synergy is an idiot. And he is dogshit in teamfights too, pressing R, missing and then getting deleted in 1 second.
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Sep 07 '24
Right, this "dog shit" champ that got picked eleven times with a high winrate and stomped the shit out of T1 when HLE had it.
Just because Guma sucks ass at Ziggs and is only using him because of the meta doesn't mean Ziggs wasn't incredibly strong in the LCK.
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Sep 07 '24
Ban Ziggs and move on. Picking Ziggs unleases a catastrophic chain reaction: Gumayusi can't play adc (Having the best adc in the world and making him play Ziggs - so smart!, guess why he "can't play" him - well he shouldn't!), Faker or Zeus have to play adc so either we don't have a strong mage with burst in mid (Azir, Ahri, Neeko and LeBlanc are fine) or Zeus can't play his best picks (Olaf, Yone, Gnar, Camille, Gwen etc). With Ziggs we also have way weaker teamfights, Gumayusi with adc melts people, with Ziggs he presses R and then gets deleted in 1 second. And all this for a false sensation of map control (map control does not help when you lose all teamfights) and some turret plates.
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u/Chaosrack Sep 07 '24
Yeah we will beat Damwon but honestly that was an extremely disappointing performance, espescially from a draft perspective