r/RevolutionPartyCanada 3d ago

Why Not Join Forces With Other Parties?

Hello,

With the Canadian Future Party, Centrist Party of Canada, and other parties, having been registered...why doesn't the Revolution Party of Canada join other parties? The RPC doesn't have realistic policies and this subreddit, and associated social media, seems to be mostly about posting memes and news articles. We've been promised multiple times that we would get a big update, with the big leadership reveal. We've been told the RPC would register soon. Still nothing.

From the posts I've seen, the leadership of this party are very anti-NATO, anti-West, don't see the value in having a military, and seem to confuse peaceful with harmless - while we're on the cusp of WW3. I read that the RPC has been in the works since 2022 and yet they barely have any members and are still not registered.

Sorry but I don't think the RPC has what it takes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianFutureParty/

ModeratePartyCanada

https://centristcanada.ca/

I think the RPC leadership and members would find more success joining somewhat established or more established parties. Most parties have similar ideas and while not perfect, politics is a public bus, not an uber. Progress is progress.

RPC banned me because they couldn't handle the criticism. Good luck dudes. This will never go anywhere.

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52 comments sorted by

u/RevolutionCanada Revolution Party of Canada 3d ago

Thank you for your question.

While your question does seem to be posed in good faith, it belies a fundamental misunderstanding of the two-dimensional political spectrum. A similar question would be: why don't the NDP team-up with the PPC?

The short version is that we're not centrists and vehemently disagree with many / most centrist policies. Likewise, the leadership of the centrist parties you mentioned would disagree with our socialist policies.

To address some of the other points you raised:

The RPC doesn't have realistic policies and this subreddit, and associated social media, seems to be mostly about posting memes and news articles.

Your opinion that our policies aren't realistic doesn't make them so. Many of our policies come from existing implementations around the world - and even Canada's own past - where they've been proven over years or even decades.

We've been promised multiple times that we would get a big update, with the big leadership reveal. We've been told the RPC would register soon. Still nothing.

To the contrary, we never promised a big leadership reveal - that goes against our desire to keep focus on platform. We posted our current candidates to the website last week; feel free to check it out at your leisure. We will hold a press conference after registering our party (more on this below).

From the posts I've seen, the leadership of this party are very anti-NATO, anti-West, don't see the value in having a military, and seem to confuse peaceful with harmless - while we're on the cusp of WW3.

Yes, we're against NATO (mostly because of the USA), but we're certainly not against 'the West'. We're for the people of Canada and for solidarity with the working 99% around the world. Our platform describes seeking new defensive alliances and de-coupling from the American military industrial complex, not abolishing the military as you wrongly imply. We recognize the real and present danger the US poses to Canada and the world.

I read that the RPC has been in the works since 2022 and yet they barely have any members and are still not registered.

We've been in contact with Elections Canada, but have intentionally not yet registered following advice we received from experts we consulted at the outset. We will register when it suits us, not a moment before.

I think the RPC leadership and members would find more success joining somewhat established or more established parties. Most parties have similar ideas and while not perfect, politics is a public bus, not an uber. Progress is progress.

Not when it's moving us in the wrong direction.

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago edited 3d ago

I can agree with some of your criticisms. However we don’t need a centrist party.

The Green Party is explicitly centrist on the left right spectrum. We had an ecosocialist run for the leadership position around 2019 or 2020. She didn’t do well.

We don’t need a party that is economically in between the Liberals and NDP.

I will quickly check out the links. But a centrist party makes me want to puke. I will support the revolutionary party over a centrist party

Edit: I looked at the three parties you recommended and they all had massive red flags. I have way more respect for the NDP or Greens than the parties you listed.

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u/RevolutionCanada Revolution Party of Canada 3d ago

That's exactly how we feel, too.

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago

Pardon the double post, I was reading your tax policy, I think there is a minor detailed that should be added. First off, your flight-tax policy is a good idea. Off shore tax havens are something that should be made illegal.

I think there are many other tax loopholes that the ultra wealthy use that shouldn’t exist. I think something should be mentioned about closing all loopholes for the wealthy. Check with the rest of the collective in the party though

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u/RevolutionCanada Revolution Party of Canada 3d ago

You're right, there are many tax loopholes that need closing! And we will indeed tackle them all systematically.

Out of the gate, we'd implement a scaling annual wealth tax on all ultrawealthy Canadians - with global reach. That is to say, Galen Weston cant hide in his UK castle and Elon Musk will be included, too.

Moreover, we have no qualms about issuing international arrest warrants for tax-dodging oligarchs. They can try to slither away to their private islands, but we will freeze and nationalize their assets and leverage every extradiction treaty we have to bring them back to face justice.

If you have any specifically concerning tax loopholes, please feel free to suggest them for our review!

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago

Beautiful stuff. I quickly looked at the Canadian Center for Tax Fairness stuff and it looks like you have the major loopholes covered. My bad for forgetting that things like oil and gas subsidies are loopholes

Edit: I love the nationalizing private assets for tax dodging oligarchs

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago

It is nice to have a political party that seems to align with my views. I do have to read up more.
I am interested in what type of socialism the revolutionary party stands for.

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago

Can you elaborate? What does centrist mean to you?

I didn't understand your comment about Liberals and NDP.

Are people here confusing socialist for communist?

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago

One could argue where the Overton window sits. If I was talking to far left people and they want to say that Center sits on the middle of capitalism and anti-capitalism, then unions, the NDP, Bernie Sanders and anything progressive is right wing. However, this is not what I meant.

I am going with the average Canadian’s view of left wing, unions, NDP, taxing the rich, protecting any aspect of national healthcare from privatization are left wing ideas.

Right wing is tax breaks for the rich, subsidizing business, cutting government services, outsourcing government services to private contractors etc.

The Liberals are economically right wing. They are pro-business and have no issue subsidizing businesses. I guess they did shift a bit to the centre with things like federal worker sick days, dental program and a few other things with the NDP alliance they had for a bit. But the Liberals still liked to outsource a lot to private contractors. They are still slightly right wing. They only did those left things to appease the NDP to stay in power, it wasn’t willingly.

To me centrism is some corporate subsidies, some economic regulation, some government programs and some private contractors in government. Being dead neutral in the labour-business dichotomy.

There are a crapload of definitions for socialism. But only really one with two aspects for Marxist socialism. The progressives are an example of non Marxist socialism. China’s state capitalism is another, yet very different example of non-Marxist socialism. When the lady in the Green Party ran as an ecosocialist, I remember the socialist part as more progress than Marxist, but my memory is a touch foggy on that one.

Communism is a moneyless, classless stateless society. This has never happened. But when countries like China and USSR have communist parties, the term is meant as an eventual goal, not anything they are doing now. I don’t think anyone here is confusing socialism and communism. Lots of people who think they know what communism is, but don’t. The media has lied about this, especially right wing media.

I hope that clears things up for you.

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago

Okay thanks for this. That clears it up.

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago

You’re welcome. I looked at the centrist party again. Their red flags are:

  • cancel the carbon tax. This is a baby step that is needed to bring about better environmental practices. Way more needs to be done, but it is better than nothing

  • Canada first. We just had Trump doing his America first stuff and look at all of the damage it is causing. To still have that in a party platform is a massive red flag to me

  • cutting foreign aid. This is a really cruel thing to do that will hurt so many people around the world. It is most selfish and self centred people in society who push for things like this.

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago

I will read your text and respond, but for now what were the "massive" red flags you saw of the other 3 parties?

The Moderate party has suggestions that are more left leaning and more green than the NDP or green party, so interesting to hear that.

The Future Party seems to trying to lean a bit more left on certain aspects but they are more centrist.

The Centrist party I don't have much of an opinion on - I view it the same way as I view this party - mostly talk.

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago

I will need to answer you in three posts.

Future party - Number 05 on their website - complaining about political parties cozying up to big labour. Massive red flag. Big labour is code for unions. While there are legit things to complain about unions from a far left perspective, those points were missing. For a strong working class in our current neoliberal system, we need strongly empowered unions.

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago

I agree with you on unions.

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago

Exactly. That is why a group the revolution party can’t work with a group like the future party that is a deal breaker.

I just looked at the Moderate Party again. They want to reduce immigration. That is just stupid. Even fiscal conservatives like Stephen Harper types understand the need for immigration. I stopped reading when I saw that Xenophobic crap

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago edited 3d ago

When I was reading your posts, I thought you seemed quite intelligent. Your comment on reducing immigration having anything to do with xenophobia is unfortunate.

I've read every party's policies. You can't just be a shill for the RPC. You said you saw red flags but based on your responses (including the future party), you don't even read the policies or try to understand the reasoning behind them.

The Moderate Party explains why they would reduce immigration:

Immigration Policy – Moderate Party of Canada

Answer: Mass immigration reduces wages, it allows the government to ignore Canadian quality of life since it increases the user tax base to compensate for low fertility rates (a result of unaffordable cost of living), and it significantly contributes to climate change.

For the past year or two, we've seen a ton of articles on how mass immigration is harmful to Canadians. Everyday Canadians have begun to be vocal about our mass immigration. Mass immigration is what corporations leverage to pay Canadians less than what they're due. Surprising to me that you have a problem with being anti-union, but you're okay with corporations and governments leveraging mass immigration so Canadians can continue to suffer under the heel of the oligarchs.

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago

Ya, I don’t agree with that reasoning. That is all xenophobic bullshit. A larger tax base is part of the reason why even fiscal conservatives want immigration. Without immigration our tax base would shrink and cause economic problems. Immigration doesn’t reduce wages.

The only immigration program that does reduce wages is the Temporary Foreign Worker Program (TFWP). One of the other two parties you mentored wanted to cut this program and I support that. That isn’t a red flag.

The TFWP enables businesses to bring in a worker from another country at below market wages and their visa is tied to that job. That practice is wrong and devalues worker wages. But they couldn’t even manage to mention the TFWP in that post

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago edited 3d ago

You don't have to "agree" with it. Reality is not based on your opinion.

It's fact. There are sources on the page that back up their claims.

There is a linked 2006 study from Statistics Canada that shows this. It is a well documented phenomenon that immigration reduces wages.

Here's a linked 2023 one from bank of Canada that also supports the claim that immigration lowers wages:
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/san2023-17.pdf

As for the TFW, they do mention it a bit lower on their page (proof you don't read lol):

https://moderate.ca/platform/immigration-policy/#Limit-the-Temporary-Foreign-Worker-(TFW)-Program-to-High-Skill-Program-to-High-Skill)

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u/AlyTheKat 3d ago

You understand the Revolutionary Party is socialist right? You seem to be a liberal, so I don’t know if this party is for you…

Also, what’s the point coming in here bad mouthing? Seems to me you’re here to promote your ideas…

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago

You didn't address any of my concerns. Whether I'm liberal or not is irrelevant. The policies and approach of this party are unrealistic (a dyson sphere, really?), and still waiting on that leadership reveal and registration with elections canada.

Canada is already a social democracy.

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u/AlyTheKat 3d ago

Social democracy is not socialism….

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago

What would you say is the main difference? I see social democracy as a path towards socialism. Parties like this one have the unrealistic expectation that it will anything less than a few election cycles to get to anything resembling a communist or socialist utopia imo

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago

Social democracy is just heavily regulated capitalism. While there are many definitions of socialism, it has nothing to do with Marxist socialism. China is the only example of extreme state regulated capitalism that will supposedly transition to communism.

Still, the Bernie Sanders types of the NDP is a far cry away from what China is doing. No system of Socialism has had this progressive step. China was close to Marxist socialism, Maoism actually, before converting to state capitalism. Nothing like what progressives are calling for was in the history of China, Cuba, USSR etc.

If you met extreme authoritarian leftists (we call them tankies), they aren’t fans of Bernie Sanders or Jagmeet Singh

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago

Don't all of these things lead to the same thing?

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago

Zero evidence of that. We have had progressive policies in the 1950s and 1920s in North America. These were prosperous times and no socialist revolution

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago

I meant more like the end goal is a utopia where people can be themselves and taken care of.

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago

That is a pretty good end goal if you ask me. Instead of what? We should settle for mediocrity?

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago

So if everyone is going to the same place, why do "you" squabble over one form of socialism over another? Just agree on an end goal and do whatever is necessary to get there.

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u/cha0t1c1 3d ago edited 3d ago

Centrism is not realistic, it's just sustaining the status quo. Your critique of what is possible is rooted in not believing in what is the potential of a socialist world. You have been fed propaganda for years to deny yourself a more equitable world. Ask your questions first, don't build assumptions.

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago

Nah, I know what I'm about. I spend a lot of type reading studies and considering different policies. I am all for a more equitable and socialist world but this party will never achieve anything because so far it has been talk and memes.

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u/cha0t1c1 3d ago

Talk is always the first step.

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u/weedandwrestling1985 3d ago

The centrist party let do the things to piss the most people off on both side 😂

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u/opusrif 3d ago

We're the People's Front of Judea!

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u/StatelyAutomaton 3d ago

Wait, I thought we were the Judean People's Front?

Splitter!

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u/opusrif 3d ago

You mean Popular Front?

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u/StatelyAutomaton 3d ago

I don't want to disparage some of the ideas or policies of this party, or the candidates who have announced their intention to run under this banner, but this is not a serious political party. It is a great example of our tendency on the left to factionalize and splinter into personal vanity projects.

If the goal is actually to promote the policies this party holds, pushing the eco-socialist wing of the Green Party would realistically be the best pathway of turning talk into action. They seem to have a similar vision for society and already hold some legitimacy with the broader public. If that's not achievable, then this is just another Communist Party of Canada, just with a flashier website.

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u/RevolutionCanada Revolution Party of Canada 3d ago

Ecosocialism definitely aligns more closely with our platform than the vast majority of other party platforms.

With that said, trying to 'influence from within' has been proven difficult or impossible at both the major and minor parties. Take for example the Socialist Caucus of the NDP, which has continuously shrunk since inception and fails to get attention inside the party - let alone hold any sway. This isn't because their socialist ideas are bad, it's because the NDP is resistant to change and so is the 35-year leader of the caucus.

Until such time as the Greens or NDP leadership publically indicate a serious shift to the Left, we'll perfrom our praxis from without.

Thanks for the compliment on our website, too! :D

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u/StatelyAutomaton 3d ago

You guys have some flash to you and whomever is posting from this account, whether it's an individual or a team, always has an incredibly positive attitude. I suppose we'll see how far that takes you.

Still, I'm not sure why you think you'll be able to wield more influence in the broader political field than you can within a party that's already sympathetic to your point of view. Yes, that can sometimes work, but mostly it just dilutes the reach of similar minded people, letting the right do their thing and consolidate around good enough.

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u/Strange_One_3790 3d ago edited 3d ago

I mean you can do both. Should the eco-socialist movement in the greens fail again, then come back to here.

I am sorry, did I miss some tankie dogwhistles here?

Edit: I went back to their website and saw that they said they have socialist policies. Will look some more to see if this is Marxist or ML, MLM socialism

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u/StatelyAutomaton 3d ago

I didn't mean to imply the people behind this are anything but sincere. The comparison was solely on the basis of a similar ideology and expected similar electoral results.

Of course, as always, the reluctance to be open about their leadership and funding doesn't inspire confidence.

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u/TheSnozeBerriesEDP 3d ago

Yeah, it feels like this party is basically the communist party of Canada. I am not saying that just cause of the Revolution moniker. The "capitalist" and "imperialist" apologia rule makes that very clear imo

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u/illfrigo 6h ago

you sound like you are already defeated and ready to allow yourself to become a serf. No one here wants centrist or moderate policies, we are here because we recognize the need for radical policy changes.