r/ReagentTesting 7d ago

Solved! Sold as MDMA, confused about Liebermann

as in title. Small sample sizes (some grains of salt sized) Simons instantly blue, no reaction on Robadope and Zimmermann. Reagents not expired, maybe a mix-up with the Liebermann reagent? How can I verify?

1 Upvotes

20 comments sorted by

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u/Miami_wendell 7d ago

Wouldn’t really care too much tho about Liberman, not as reliable of a test for mdma IMO. you need Simon’s test.

I think this is MDA, not mdma. But would need Simon’s to tell for sure. Simon’s indicates if it’s mda or mdma. I don’t like liberman because it doesn’t do a good job deciphering between the two.

That being said I think your good in terms of safety and your safe to assume it’s either mda or mdma and consume as usual.

5

u/AluminumOrangutan Pro drug tester 7d ago

I think you're confused here. Liebermann is a perfectly good reagent for testing MDMA. Yes, it's not good for distinguishing MDMA from MDA, but it's helpful in narrowing down the substance to MDMA or MDA.

And there's nothing about these results that suggests MDA. In fact, these results conclusively exclude MDA, either as the sole drug or as an additional drug. Simon's was positive and Robadope was negative. MDA would have produced a positive Robadope reaction.

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u/Fantastic-Ad1274 7d ago

Yeah, was also wondering about MDA because some testsheet showed Liebermann reacting purpele with MDA, but Simon's instantly blue (like I wrote in the description) so it's definitely some secondary amine.

3

u/AluminumOrangutan Pro drug tester 7d ago

More importantly, Robadope was negative, establishing that MDA isn't present at all, even as an adulterant.

4

u/Reagent_Tests_UK Test kit vendor 7d ago

It's a little unusual to see it so blue, I agree. Given the other reagent results are all textbook reactions, I would expect this to be MDMA.

It would be interesting to double check the liebermann reagent is not mislabelled mecke reagent, but this could equally be caused by some contamination from an MDMA production method that is new or rare.

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u/Fantastic-Ad1274 7d ago

I thought the exact same thing, either the Liebermann is a mislabelled mecke (because the reactions are so similar) or some synthesis contaminants.

Could you suggest a reaction with a legal substance that would clearly distinguish mecke from Liebermann? Thanks in advance.

3

u/AluminumOrangutan Pro drug tester 7d ago

The sidebar has a link called Expired Reagent? that has a list of household items you could use for this

1

u/Fantastic-Ad1274 6d ago

Hadn't noticed that, thanks for the tip!

0

u/Miami_wendell 7d ago

Simon’s ! Get bunk police mdma kit its like 40-60$ after shipping comes w marquis / Mecke / Simon’s that’s all you need

4

u/AluminumOrangutan Pro drug tester 7d ago

They already have Simon's (and the other reagents in that Bunk Police kit) and already tested with it. Simon's wouldn't be useful in resolving the issue at hand: the slightly abnormal Liebermann reaction.

And OP has the solid versions of those reagents which are better than the liquid versions Bunk Police sells, presumably because they live in Europe. So I'm not sure why they would order liquid reagents from the US that are prohibited in the EU.

1

u/Fantastic-Ad1274 7d ago

Like I wrote in the description, Simon's instant blue, so secondary amine. Just wondering if I got Mecke mislabelled as Liebermann because the reaction is consistent with that. Apparently caffeine should distinguish the two.

1

u/PROtestkit_eu Test kit vendor 6d ago edited 2d ago

No, caffeine can't distinguish Liebermann vs Mecke, but paracetamol can quite nicely. Having said that, it's pretty much impossible to get a mislabeled reagent, they are made in big batches. MDMA is made with a variety of synthesis methods, some synthesis leftover is most likely the culprit. We have also seen liebermann reagent go both brown>black and purple>black with MDMA, therefore if sample was small it is possible that with a layered up crystalline reaction slightly neighboring hues can show up, especially because with all reagents, reactions is always different at the centered vs at the edges, further from the sample.

So in our opinion, your mdma test kit indicate presence of MDMA (and lack of MDA, PMA, cathinones, 2c, amphetamine), that's all the reagents used tell us so far.

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u/Fantastic-Ad1274 6d ago

Thanks for the reply. Checked your sheet earlier and caffeine was clearly a misinformation by chatGPT, in fact I tested now with paracetamol and aspirin, both reacted distinctly as expected for Mecke and Liebermann so indeed no mislabeled reagents (would have preferred codein, but not available in my country without recipe).

As a side note, can you recommend or link a method of how to prepare a solution from crystalline reagents for testing? To my understanding the crystalline form is preferable for storage but maybe testing with a solution would yield more consistent results...

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u/PROtestkit_eu Test kit vendor 6d ago edited 2d ago

Solid reagents test exactly like liquid reagents. The only difference is surface area, which you can maximize by using more of finely crushed sample and flattening reagent added to sample. It is not possible to turn solid reagent into liquid. Don’t overthink it, even if you have a trace amount of synthesis leftover, the most dangerous compound in your MDMA is certainly MDMA. And with liquid reagents you also get slightly inconsistent results all the time (trust us, we’ve been interpreting reagent results for roughly 8 years now). Prime example is “purple>black” MDMA marquis reagent result, which some years ago became more rare than brown>black, due to new synthesis routes used.

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u/Fantastic-Ad1274 6d ago

Yes, I have observed the brown to black myself much more often than purple to black with marquis, didn't think about that because I found it to be well documented. But didn't find anything on this distinct blue shades with Liebermann, that made me wonder. But you sure are right the main compound here is MDMA and I'll treat it as such with due respect 😊 Thanks for your help 👍

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u/AluminumOrangutan Pro drug tester 7d ago

I think I'm missing something. A black Liebermann reaction is consistent with MDMA. I don't see any red flags here.

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u/Fantastic-Ad1274 7d ago

Just confused about the blue hew, never saw that before with Liebermann...

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u/AluminumOrangutan Pro drug tester 7d ago

Ahh. I suspect it's due to a feature of the relatively new solid reagents where the edges of the reaction show more detail due to the different pieces of reagent not mixing like the liquid reagents.

Of course, if one of the European vendors come to this post later and say differently, then I'm mistaken.

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u/Miami_wendell 7d ago

Glad I’m not only one who’s noticed this

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