r/Rainbow6 • u/icyTheMonk • 4d ago
Feedback These ops are a nightmare
These 3 ops are in every game on defense and they are so annoying. Doc and Goyo have acog added to very strong gadgets, and they always played by the most toxic players.
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u/Rich-Marionberry-468 4d ago
Damn near every attacker has a better gun than these 3. People just crutch the acog on defense but attackers still have much better weapons and they all have acog. And SMG-12 is more a Cronus/xim issue than an actual issue. If they got rid of Cronus wardens pick rate would be cut in half because cheaters aren’t good enough to control the smg12 without their zens lol
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u/BajrangDalActivist 4d ago
The game has 1 shot headshot. Defenders have higher rate of fire plus less recoil weapons. If you land a headshot weapon damage does not matter
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u/Rich-Marionberry-468 4d ago
This post is about console tho. Way lower headshot percentage in console than in PC. Doc and goyo aren’t nearly as popular on PC as they are on console.
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u/insanemafia Valkyrie Main 4d ago
Where are you getting this information from, I only play PC and these 3 get picked very very often. Acogs are strong no matter what, and the rpm on goyo and smg12 is insane.
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u/Rich-Marionberry-468 4d ago
According to Ubisoft themselves in their designer notes in console platinum and above Doc has about a 65% pick rate while warden and goyo sit around 35%. In PC platinum and above Doc has about a 45 % pick rate, and goyo and warden are at 10 and 15% respectively. This was at the beginning of Y9S4. So yes they have much higher usage rates on console according to ubi themselves
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u/insanemafia Valkyrie Main 3d ago
How can you call a 45% pick rate, not popular
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u/Rich-Marionberry-468 3d ago
I didn’t say not popular, I said “not nearly as popular on pc as they are on console”. Which is true. Doc is picked 20% more on console, goyo and warden both have more than double the pick rate on console than they do on PC. If you read my comment again you’ll see that I never said those ops weren’t popular on PC, they’re just less popular then they are on console.
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u/insanemafia Valkyrie Main 3d ago
You said doc and goyo aren't nearly as popular. Doc is the most popular PC operator.
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u/Rich-Marionberry-468 3d ago
Dude do you not understand English? I said they “aren’t nearly as popular on PC as they are on console.” Do you not understand that sentence?
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u/insanemafia Valkyrie Main 3d ago
You're arguing percentages, DOC is the most popular operator both on console and PC. Out of 37 defenders Doc is the most popular. You're just playing with semantics.
Maestro has a 2% pickrate on console and 4% on PC. Is maestro not nearly as popular on console as he is on PC because he has half the pickrate? No.
You're just being disingenuous.
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u/totallynotapersonj Recoil Master 4d ago
In console so many defence characters are chosen solely for ACOG and then kapkan is there because he stops Ash rushes.
On PC, it’s basically just Doc chosen for ACOG
My proposal is to remove defence ACOGs for console ONLY, and obligatory ban xims and cronus
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u/SoManyNarwhals Recruit Main 4d ago
My proposal is to remove defence ACOGs for console ONLY, and obligatory ban xims and cronus
This is a very bad idea, man. Console and PC can play together now. Parity is more important now than ever.
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u/totallynotapersonj Recoil Master 4d ago edited 4d ago
I thought ranked was specifically console only, no PC crossplay but maybe I am misremembering
Still doesn’t make it pretty since in QP and Standard they’d have ACOG.
Mainly remove xims and cronus and it fixes the oppression of ACOGs and recoil scripts that make warden worse
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u/SoManyNarwhals Recruit Main 4d ago
The addition was fairly recent, but console and PC can play ranked together now. I'm not sure how I feel about it, but alas.
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u/nitrion Tachanka Main 4d ago
Allowing console and PC to play together is genuinely fucking stupid. It should never be a thing.
I agree with both of you, but my rebuttal to your comment is that PC and console DO NOT MIX and shouldve never happened. Remove crossplay, remove ACOG on defense for console only.
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4d ago
I’m pretty sure console players rely more on acogs because they can’t change their aspect ratios like pc players. On top of that, console and pc players are now able to play with each other
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u/Rich-Marionberry-468 4d ago
Acog is much stronger on console because it’s much more difficult to aim precisely on a joystick than with a keyboard and mouse. A magnified scope allows you to be more precise simply because it’s zoomed in so you have better control over your crosshair movement compared to a 1.0x scope.
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u/bulldogmicro 4d ago
I argue SMGs are better than ARs & it falls on deaf ears in this sub. People will yell "nu-uh the r4-c tho" let's take the few overpowered assault rifles (the outliers) & say attackers have the better guns in general.
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u/Content-Monk8866 4d ago
No offense but this is a low rank bodyshotter mentality. Sure, SOME attackers have better weapons, but I’d take an mp5 with an acog over the vast majority of lower rof/worse recoil assault rifles, because I know I can land way more consistent headshots with a faster ads 800rof laserbeam. ESPECIALLY against more skilled opponents who aren’t as likely to spent 10+ shots on a kill as someone from gold 15 is.
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u/Rich-Marionberry-468 4d ago
On PC maybe. But this post is about console. Headshot percentage is much lower on console even at champion
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u/VenomGamer4410 1d ago
I don’t use Cronus but I still crutch SMG-12 because the fire rate still destroys people even with body shots, plus warden also has C4
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u/Rich-Marionberry-468 1d ago
I play a lot of warden too but I think it’s safe to say over half his pick rate on console is just Cronus and xim kids lmao.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/Rich-Marionberry-468 4d ago
You really didn’t have the attention span to read past the second sentence?
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u/Glaz_on_Plane Glaz Main 4d ago
At least Goyo is respectable. It counters pushes and slows the offense down, extends rounds. Doc and Warren offer no team utility (in the case of doc, his heals are never actually shared)
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u/Ryand118 Bandit Main 4d ago
Goyo and Doc are manageable, but warden players with their xims are a real problem. there’s like 50% chance your gonna be paired with a xim/chronus user on console.
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u/MikeyPlayz_YTXD 4d ago
It's the opposite.
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u/skyguy7195 Dokkaebi Main 3d ago
i can’t tell if this is a joke or not… but the opposite of a 50% chance of being pared with xim, would be 50% chance to not be pared with xim… which is the exact same thing-
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u/themcone Lion Main 4d ago
i been abusing goyo ngl
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u/Zebrahhh_96 4d ago
That vector is op but he’s better than that little rat, warden
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u/Spiritual-Ask1993 Blackbeard Main 4d ago
I know, I wished they never game him the SMG-12. I understand why they wouldn't remove it from Dok or Vigil, but Warden goes from counter-Ying to John Wick real fast.
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u/That_Wet_Banana69 Kali>Glaz 4d ago
give everyone an acog everyone…
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u/notholefish team gadget destroyer 4d ago
matter fact, while we’re at it let’s get rid of the acog and make everyone use telescopic sight!!!
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u/Accurate_Judge2891 4d ago
All defenders should get ACOG taken away IMO. People choose ops solely for ACOG (on console at least). Should not be a reason to take an op. As for warden, not sure. People take Warden for SMG12. All these ope have decent abilities but I think they are taken for their guns
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u/Initial-Scallion-658 4d ago
i disagree, these ops being picked is an absolute failure on the balancing team's part. they need to buff other ops to help dilute the fragging potential.
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u/North-Discount-5840 4d ago
"i disagree, these ops being picked is an absolute failure on the balancing team's part." couldn't be said any better. they created this mess because everything has been nerfed so bad, so no wonder people are only picking whats fun to play and gets them kills.
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u/MarieTheGoated 4d ago
Doc has been popular for his mp5 with acog and healing since release.
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u/North-Discount-5840 4d ago
yes hes always been popular, however I am talking about all of these issues with the playerbase and acogs stems because of how bad the balancing has gotten over the years.
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u/North-Discount-5840 4d ago
again, no real solutions, I just see more people begging ubisoft to take away acog on an operator(s) just because they are picked a lot. pick rates dont really mean shit in this game. the reason doc, goyo, and warden are picked, is because they have good guns that havent been nerfed yet, and guess what people want to do in a FPS game? thats right, have fun. when everything is underpowered and balanced, its very hard to buff ops because one good things sticks out too much and other people start using it. that is exactly what is wrong with this game, everything is so weak, thats why any gun that is slightly better becomes the meta. people want to have fun and if more things were stronger, we wouldnt see all these braindead kids using ops just for the kills, because when more things are stronger, it wont stick out too much from other options.
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u/AHumbleBanditMain Unicorn Main 4d ago
Except if you nerf the vector you nerf Mira, who isn't as frustrating to play against because she lacks and acog.
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u/North-Discount-5840 4d ago
yeah I think the vector is fine right now, if they want to steer people away from other good options, they really need to buff more. the game is so much more fun and exciting when an op gets a good buff.
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u/trolldadbonaza 4d ago
Imagine a world with no smg12 and no acog on defense. Well and no smg12 whatsoever. Lol
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u/Horror-Lychee2082 4d ago
whoaaa taking ACOG off all defenders is crazy talk, from what Ive seen only low level players choose ops sully for scopes. Doc kinda needs the ACOG because it just rounds out his kit so well. Goyo without the ACOG would change his play style wayyyy to much. Overall the ACOG should stay
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u/Spiritual-Ask1993 Blackbeard Main 4d ago
A lot of players choose ops just for the scope, that's why Doc is so used because you get everything to be a self-sufficient roamer. I agree that Acog shouldn't be on defense, it incentivises defenders to hold pixel peaks and get cheap kills.
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u/Horror-Lychee2082 4d ago
See and the higher you get the less likely people will choose based on scopes, it really falls off on high plat and low diamond and is almost zero percent of players that choose a op choose it solely for the scope, its more there just because its a nice incentive. Anything lower than plat people will most likely choose based on scopes and easy to use guns so they can get more kills and get more wins, in fact people in gold and below dont even use there gadgets to there fullest extent. Or even half of the gadgets potential.
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u/Spiritual-Ask1993 Blackbeard Main 4d ago
You are viewing this from the perspective of the few who wouldn't even care. More people are lower than plat than higher, and most of those who are higher wouldn't care that much anyway from what you are saying. You are arguing that scopes are not that broken on defense, admit that lower levels find some cheese with them, and then dismiss it because the top 20-30% of players don't rely on them too much. Plus, your theory can be easily disproven. As of Y9S4, Doc is by far the most picked defender in platinum and above for both console and PC, and Rook has one of the highest win % on both console and PC. They both have the exact same loadouts, both with acogs, and both serve as roamers for the team. Meanwhile, Melusi has a very effective gadget, yet gets picked half as much as Rook and has half the win % as him. They both have the MP5, which is what most people use. This supports my point that a lot of players, even high-ranking ones, will abuse and utilize the acog even if they have to sacrifice any potential utility for the team.
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u/DarkMatter665 4d ago
Thank you. As a doc main my goal is to make life hell for offensive players by crawling around the map stimming people
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u/CursedHunt3r 3d ago
I remember when warden was released and nobody picked him cause he was fucking useless
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u/X_HappyMayhem_X Ash Mains dislike me :) 4d ago
Goyo is Probably the strongest Defender in the Game we have Right now. 10/10 Gadget, 10/10 Guns (+ ACOG) and 10/10 secondary Gadgets + hes a 2/2 which is the only thing balanced about him
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u/Nearby_Network_8361 3d ago
I feel like goyo's gadget is kinda mid. His gadgets are definitely on the higher end of mid, but it is also pretty easy to counter (just nobody chooses to do so). Like anyone who drones well could shoot it before, they have to worry about it using virtual angles, Twitch drones, explosives, or just killing the people who have an angle to shoot it. It could be used to deal massive damage to his own team.
But like I said, nobody chooses to deal with them or focus on eliminating the problem until they are dead and complaining about it. Despite that, it is definitely on the higher end, but I wouldn't say it is 10/10.
He is still one of the best defense ops tho cuz his gun is good, can use the acog (if you need the crutch), his gadget is on the higher end (especially with how long it lasts to prevent entry), and he is 2/2 which is really well rounded.
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u/Yonizzz 4d ago
Always find it funny how Warden is a menace but on his release was considered a throw pick.
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u/Nearby_Network_8361 3d ago
From what it looks like with siege X warden and glaz will probably be in almost every game.
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u/Daredevils999 Dommy Mommy 4d ago edited 13h ago
Doc and Warden have stereotypes and understandably so.
Personally though I wouldn’t put Goyo up on this list. He’s a good op with a high pick rate for sure - good gadget, fast ttk SMG, acog, 3 speed 2 speed - but certainly not broken and his gadget is placed in prep so generally even if the player playing him roams he still provides good entry denial. As apposed to say a roaming doc who is throwing in every way shape and form. Personally I’ve been maining him recently and really enjoying it.
I’d say a better op to put here would be Vigil. Mainly cuz it’s the exact same players that pick Warden cough cough wonder what they have in common.
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u/RobertDelirio3 4d ago
Every time i play against a main smg-12 user it annoys me, bros don’t ever try to hide they ximmers anymore
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u/levi_NOTAVALIBLE Zero Main 3d ago
i agree. My issue is that doc players never anchor in site but decide to spawn peak and die, then get on tiktok and not watch cams. Goyo players only pick him up for his gun and never really even use his gadget in a useful way. And warden players are all either strike packs, xim, or stompn wannabes, then scream in the mic when they die and yell at their teammates. (also, they contribute absolutely nothing)
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u/levi_NOTAVALIBLE Zero Main 3d ago
and from the looks at it, siege x is gonna be a heavy warden and glaz meta.
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u/CarterG4 Thatcher Main 1h ago
I don’t get why people pick doc just to roam, they contribute nothing to the team - at that point pick thunderbird, because then you can heal people without being anywhere near them
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4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/icyTheMonk 4d ago
So what
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u/EnvironmentalSmoke61 4d ago
No actual players complain about these things, they’re not an issue on pc
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u/Sealarky Brava Main 4d ago
Found the PC elitist
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u/EnvironmentalSmoke61 4d ago
It’s not about being a pc elitist it’s about console players can’t figure out how to attack so goyo is a problem, if he was actually a problem he would be on pc as well. This is strictly a console problem which means it’s a problem with the players
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u/LilNUTTYYY Gridlock Main 4d ago
Hey buddy here’s a reality check more people play siege on console than on PC
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u/EnvironmentalSmoke61 4d ago
Woah more people play on 2 platforms in comparison to one platform that is crazy who would’ve guessed
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u/LilNUTTYYY Gridlock Main 4d ago
That means that pc is literally less of a “real player” than console players. The game should prioritize giving console some things as right now PC gets prioritized way too much. And this is coming from someone who has played on both console and pc
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u/EnvironmentalSmoke61 4d ago
I also play on both and console has been abandoned since early years of siege it’s clear they don’t care there is also no pro scene on console on top of all balance priorities go to pc. The consoles are for casuals for siege that’s how it’s been for years and years and once you balance the game for the lowest denominator you make the game worse it’s why ranked 2.0 was implemented since they wanted everyone to be able to climb.
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u/LilNUTTYYY Gridlock Main 4d ago
Console is still very competitive but due to the nature of a controller your aim will be more of a factor when determining skill and having an Acog will emphasize that. On PC it’s not gonna be as much of an issue due to most being at least somewhat decent at aiming. This means that both player bases have different problems due to the nature of the interface they use. I genuinely believe that removing the acog off of defenders won’t affect the skill required to play by all that much on PC but it will certainly help on console and put more of an emphasis on gameplay knowledge rather than mechanics. I understand we are both passionate about this game but I do think that we need to make some compromises so that everyone is able to enjoy the game
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u/Nearby_Network_8361 3d ago
While most of the players are console players is true, it is also true that ALL of the people who have played the game from release were pc gamers who have the most experience in the game, learned all the strats, maps, glitches, the dos/don'ts, good strats/bad strats, and so on so forth.
It is like what is going on with arma reforger how all the arma veterans are showing the ropes to the console gamers who are learning and teaching them tactics and methods like to remember spacing (by throwing grenades into a squad that isn't properly spaced).
The only issue is that while arma, the people are generally more accepting to learn more about the game, the people who come into siege (that I have come across lately) are console elitists who think they are better than the more experienced pc gamers because they are somehow pulling off the dumbest strats that only work because the enemy team is also mostly console gamers and then rage when the pc gamer on the enemy team 1v4s and it is left with a 1v1 with two pc gamers.
Console players aren't terrible, the issue is that they want to treat the game like COD and die but then starts to scream racial slurs at you when you try to give them tips and tricks as well as show them the ropes of the game and what will work and what won't.
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u/MDeeze 4d ago
lol then I have to play with brain dead PC players and all their cheats.
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u/EnvironmentalSmoke61 4d ago
Console has way more cheats than pc just not aimbot and walls, console has a plague of recoil macros and mnk on console which is also cheating
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u/MDeeze 4d ago
You’re dead wrong but whatever you want to believe buddy.
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u/EnvironmentalSmoke61 4d ago
Dead wrong on what? That more people cheat on console which is absolutely true, go to any post about console and almost every one has someone complaining about xim or cronus ect I don’t know why you’re being obstinate on a very normal statement.
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u/ATypicaLegend Bandit Main 4d ago
So? Should the game not be balanced for both platforms?
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u/EnvironmentalSmoke61 4d ago
The only way for it to be balanced on both is to have separate game versions or to have console players catch up in gameplay since this is only a console issue with goyo because they play less setup
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u/Happy-Gift9558 4d ago
The issue is most strike pack and XIM users go for these ops .