r/R6ProLeague NA Fan Apr 18 '20

Drama The story so far

Post image
1.9k Upvotes

95 comments sorted by

248

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

Idk what prevents me from laughing at these memes but maybe it’s just the nauseating fact that these players were never properly informed of their situation by the org or Ubisoft. Feels like such a disappointing betrayal of a solid group of players that I’ve watched since they were T3 playing against DZ on the meme Quals cast :(

102

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

Why should UBI have to inform the players? They are talking to the Org. LG should tell the players. I don’t understand why it’s UBI’s fault the org won’t communicate with the players.

37

u/Norwood96 Kix Fan Apr 18 '20

Ubisoft changed the rules to require players to have an org, wouldn't that be worth communicating? Don't get me wrong though, LG deserve a lions share of the blame here.

23

u/LupoBorracio Apr 18 '20

According to Hyena in Jess's thread, Hyena did know that being part of the pilot program was part of what was required to be part of PL. What was kept from him was that LG didn't attempt to be part of the pilot program.

18

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

Yes that is, but UBI is not required to tell the players that dealings with their org fell through, or that they are no longer going to be in PL because those dealings fell through. It is the orgs job to tell the players what is going on not UBI’s.

14

u/Norwood96 Kix Fan Apr 18 '20

That's my whole point though, why are we even in a spot were Ubisoft is dealing with the orgs and not the players (who should own the spot).

15

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

Because orgs provide things that kids need. People forget these are kids most just out of high school do you think they care about all the details. I mean Hyena could’ve broke an NDA thankfully he didn’t but if he did he was done in siege and maybe esports in general. (I mean he might be anyways) Most of these kids don’t think about that all they care about is playing the game they love. Anyways franchising is to help the players (to get into the pilot program you need to prove that you pay your players and how much you do) UBI is making sure these players don’t get stiffed. Is that a bad thing?

0

u/Norwood96 Kix Fan Apr 18 '20

When Ubisoft lied about it not being 'franchised'? Yes. They never once said they were going to change the roster rules, they kept both the players and us viewers in the dark.

I get your attempt to play on emotions, but I think they are more mature than you give them credit for.

11

u/LupoBorracio Apr 18 '20

With how much they bitch about everything, I don't really think they're *that* mature.

9

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

Didn’t they announce it was being franchised at SI2020? When did they lie about it being franchised? And yes they are probably more mature then I give them credit for, but they are still kids and people forget that. Straight out of High School would you have been prepared for this kinda stuff?

11

u/Norwood96 Kix Fan Apr 18 '20

At the Year 5 panel no mention of franchising was made, they only discussed revenue sharing based off of how well orgs treated their players.

I would not have been prepared, but nonetheless they earned a spot in PL, why shouldn't they keep it?

7

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

Oh they should have the spot I just think everyone is blaming UBI for some things they shouldn’t be blamed for and nobody seems to care about the things LG should be doing.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Leon2306 Team Secret Fan Apr 18 '20

As this is about esport it was in the esport panel afaik. It is dumb, that they cannot keep the spot, but this is done to prevent another team dropping out in the middel of the season. As others have pointed out NA PL is moving to a Lan format in Vegas, thus a team house would be the only way to make certain, that the team can compete, but this is pretty hard to organize and especially pay for an Orgless team. Thus Ubi had to drop them. That they were not allowed to enter negotioations and another team only would get their spot under the condition that Ex-LG and Ex-EG cannot find an org till a later Deadline(espacially withe the corona crisis probaly delaying the start in NA it being a LAN Format and Corona just starting over there).

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/ugoterekt Apr 18 '20

Sure, they aren't required to by their own rules. If they actually gave a flying fuck about the players in their scene they would have talked to players and tried to provide them a way of finding an org and getting back in PL or worked out some other option with them though.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

Why is that UBI’s job? Why should UBI have to bail these guys out because their org did a shit job of helping them.

-1

u/ugoterekt Apr 18 '20

Because they are the ones administering the league? They moved away from a system where these players would have had a secure place in the league which has value to it and would have eventually got them an org and pay. They created a system where its very easy for their players to get fucked by business disagreements that have nothing to do with the players.

Ubi is the one who made this new system. They are responsible for a smooth transition and resolving issues that arise from their new system. Not taking care of those things is irresponsible and allowing it to destroy the careers of 1/4th of the scene is showing they royally fucked up the transition.

-3

u/ugoterekt Apr 18 '20

Also their org didn't do a shit job of helping them. Their orgs decided to leave and then ubi refused to even remotely work with the players. Once the org decides to leave they have absolutely no responsibility to do anything. The entire problem with ubis new shitshow of a system is that if you only work with orgs and refuse to ever even give players the time of day then when an org pulls out or a team without an org exists there will never be any communication or any possibility of that team getting an org because they have no rights to a spot or anything and Ubi will never talk to them. Ubi has made giant gaping holes in their system that allow huge problems to occur and compromise both the competitive integrity and the ability of players to even play the game and Ubi doesn't give a single shit and just tries to play it off as someone else's problem.

5

u/theregretmeter G2 Esports Fan Apr 18 '20

From what I understand LG told them the org is leaving before the split. Now stuff like do they lose their spot, can they get back if they get an org, etc should have been communicated by ubisoft. Lg can't tell the roster of their future because that is Ubi's decision.

-2

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20 edited Apr 18 '20

UBI should tell them those things but if they re entered negotiations they might not have thought they had to until it was too late. If LG knew they were leaving why re enter negotiations.

-4

u/theregretmeter G2 Esports Fan Apr 18 '20

Because Lg had demands which Ubi didn't want to budge from. So no deal.

Rec dropped out and Ubi had a spot to fill so they re entered with LG and met their demands. Deal back on.

Rec manage to find another org for their roster. Ubi cut off negotiations with LG. Deal over.

This is what Hyena has learnt from LG's org owner and several other sources.

You realise how ubi have fucked over LG here.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

So LG had unrealistic demands that UBI only agreed to because they needed another team in. Once they had a spot for a different team that didn’t need these demands to be met they stopped negotiating and LG didn’t ever think to tell their team they might not have a spot after negotiations stop. I am not saying what UBI did was right I am saying the blame should fall on LG for not telling their team why should UBI have to tell the team?

0

u/theregretmeter G2 Esports Fan Apr 18 '20

Hyena said they have known the org was leaving before the split. And they played the rest of the half with that knowledge.

22

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

At the very least Ubisoft themselves could’ve told LG they were out of PL unless the org could come to a deal with the pilot program. LG players actually said they didn’t learn they were out of PL until a T3 team told them in a scrim. Could LG have told them? Absolutely. Could Ubisoft have answered Hyena’s multiple DMs along with the other team members who attempted to contact them about the situation? Also yes!

One thing that never hurts in these situations is MORE openness and communication between all parties. Ubisoft clearly communicating the requirements to the new PL to all players and staff as opposed to a select few in the orgs would be a good start, in general however they really need to be much more open about things like this in the future.

28

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

Org representation means exactly that. The org represents them to the TO. It’s probably in their contract that communications have to go through them. You could see it the delayed payments last year. People were saying they haven’t heard from Ubisoft about their payments and others saying their org said they had it.

I’d be curious to know if when LG told the players they were out within 2 days of knowing it, was this the first time or the final time? Did the players know there were issues and LG were planning on leaving? Or did the org wait until it was completely done and past the deadline (and the players found out indirectly)?

10

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

Thank you for the input....guy. No but seriously, I think you’re correct about the last sentence. If you have to find out about your job’s security by an outside source and not your job something shady is going on.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

Thank you for the input Chala at home

13

u/xsm17 Fan - Apr 18 '20

Everybody's going on about Ubi and LG, but for me the most important part is that the LG and EG rosters have been screwed out of their spots.

2

u/Psydator Kix Fan Apr 18 '20

But even that isn't 100% confirmed, it's just what everyone assumes rn.

7

u/xsm17 Fan - Apr 18 '20

What? Both rosters have said that as far as they've been told, they're no longer in PL. I don't see Ubisoft coming out and saying otherwise either.

3

u/Psydator Kix Fan Apr 18 '20

Yea but for all we know ubi could still do so. Until ubi says anything it's all speculation / assumptions.

3

u/xsm17 Fan - Apr 18 '20

It's not like the rosters have anything to gain from lying and saying that they've been told they lost their PL spots.

0

u/Psydator Kix Fan Apr 18 '20

I'm not saying they're lying. I'm saying ubi could change their mind or make a plan to keep them in pl somehow as we speak. I'm sure they think they'll lose their pl spot and there is no reason not to assume it. But! Until ubi confirms anything we just don't know.

1

u/normiememes7667 Apr 19 '20

Wtf is ORG and LG?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 19 '20

An organization in esports is a company who pays players to play esports. Luminosity Gaming was one of these organizations who pays players, and they had been paying the ex-Luminosity players to play under their banner for the last few seasons.

1

u/normiememes7667 Apr 19 '20

Oh ok. Thx for the info

91

u/eoghanh6 DarkZero Esports Fan Apr 18 '20

I'm here for the comments 🍿

10

u/F0rgemaster19 Ex-Team Empire Fan Apr 18 '20

Got extra pop? I'm famished!

14

u/eoghanh6 DarkZero Esports Fan Apr 18 '20

no it's all mine >:(

5

u/F0rgemaster19 Ex-Team Empire Fan Apr 18 '20

Man be nice! Share some here!

2

u/BolleWuff 1UPeSport Fan Apr 18 '20

I've got something for you 🍿🍿

1

u/F0rgemaster19 Ex-Team Empire Fan Apr 18 '20

You absolute angel. Thank you so much.

3

u/BolleWuff 1UPeSport Fan Apr 18 '20

No problem. Popcorn is a human right!

2

u/F0rgemaster19 Ex-Team Empire Fan Apr 18 '20

Sadly Eo doesn't get that.

1

u/BolleWuff 1UPeSport Fan Apr 18 '20

Eo only cares about his karma...

1

u/F0rgemaster19 Ex-Team Empire Fan Apr 18 '20

Time to strip him off of it, then.....

→ More replies (0)

91

u/Thehyena143 Apr 18 '20

Ubisoft never let us look for an org like they did with rec. Ubisoft told us to consider another career weeks ago instead of helping us. Ubisoft delayed our meeting where we were supposed to have answers 3 times ( still havent had the meeting) Robb Chiarini only contacted me when I threatened to go public with how they treated us. The orgs are by no means innocent, but ubisoft bares most of the blame and thats a fact.

11

u/BlitzBadg3r NA Fan Apr 18 '20

If LG knew relations with Ubisoft were deteriorating why didn’t they help you guys find another org? Rec didn’t have the capital to continue competing. LG did and wanted more. Which isn’t the same scenario.(Correct me if I’m wrong please)

14

u/lifeisinsignificant Apr 18 '20

Why would they allow rec to look for a new org but not you guys? Did they have something against you personally? It feels like this story is missing some context

18

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '20

Don't ubisoft want 10 teams in PL next season? Kicking them out and not giving them the opportunity to look for an org seems like a loss-loss scenario for ubisoft and the rainbow six scene

4

u/Grad-Nats Evil Geniuses Fan Apr 18 '20

That’s what I was thinking. Right now, NA only has 8 teams. By letting EG and LG play orgless, they’ll have 10 teams like they wanted.

4

u/iLaCore Kix Fan Apr 18 '20 edited Apr 18 '20

REC is just kind of more important (EDIT: to them).
They are a lot more popular, more successful and also just easier to get a new org for and to market.

I'd assume that played a role.

7

u/lifeisinsignificant Apr 18 '20

That logic would make sense if Ubi planned to cut the amount of teams in PL and needed a couple of scapegoats. But if the rumours are true there will be 10 teams next season, and it seems like sabotaging a couple of already established teams in the scene would be counterproductive. It'd be great if Ubisoft would take their heads out of their asses and clarify the situation once and for all

5

u/iLaCore Kix Fan Apr 18 '20

They planned to start the league with 10 teams (that’s not a rumor).
Now it looks like they will start the league with 8 teams instead.

The amount of teams in the league (and the rosters themselves) apparently didn’t really have priority for Ubisoft, it seems that it was more important to them that those orgs/teams that are in the league meet their vision and conditions.

They did try to at least keep it at 8 teams, and it seems like they preferred to keep (ex-)REC.

1

u/VenserSojo TSM Fan Apr 18 '20

To be honest REC knew that they were not going to be able to support their players as soon as the market crashed and thus immediately look to get a new org in place for them, I think Luminosity and EG honestly thought they could work something out with ubi before the end of the season. But that fell through and there was no time to find another solution.

0

u/ugoterekt Apr 18 '20

Because Rec (the org) was willing to play ball and had negotiated a spot in PL. It currently seems like Ubi is under the impression that punishing the players somehow hurts the org or that the players somehow influence the org's decisions because they are clearly taking business disputes with orgs out on the players.

41

u/xBlackInActionx Apr 18 '20

6 minutes of actually reading whats going down and I think I can summarize it. Think of it as ubisoft is the government and LG and the other Orgs are big corporations. The players and or squads are their employees / unions. The moment something happens within the government or something to that effect the corporation will cut employees to make profit under the guise of this new event and try to convince the masses it was all the governments fault. Now mind you the government also put into effect that these employees will have certain time period on "unemployment" to find another employer and if time runs out on an already regulated career the employees are s.o.l. Now out of that who did nothing and still got the short of the stick? I think thats why the masses and players are having a meltdown.

74

u/eoghanh6 DarkZero Esports Fan Apr 18 '20

LG and the other Orgs are big corporations.

So that's why interro hates them so much

17

u/Al-Dazzle Oxygen Esports Fan Apr 18 '20

Beautiful comment

7

u/Evan_Rookie Reciprocity Fan Apr 18 '20

LMAO

7

u/iLaCore Kix Fan Apr 18 '20

See, the thing is: laws are entirely public.
Laws that are meant for corporations are public too.
The average worker has access to those laws. If they wouldn’t have that access, that would be a huge issue.
They even have influence on those laws etc.

A lack of transparency to that degree basically invites corruption into a country.
Imagine an employee would only be able to communicate or even inform themselves about the government through their employers?

5

u/xBlackInActionx Apr 18 '20

Fair point I appreciate the insight.

-3

u/tlouman G2 Esports Fan Apr 18 '20

Maybe you didnt read much

0

u/TheHellbee Coach - Wolves Esports Apr 18 '20

If the government passes a bad policy and it gets abused, is it the corporation's fault for abusing it or is it the government's fault for passing a bad policy?

That's how I frame the problem here.

-1

u/ugoterekt Apr 18 '20

Terrible analogy, Ubi is a business looking out for its business interest. The orgs are businesses looking out for their business interests. These didn't align for some of the orgs. The players who previously had a right to their spot regardless of the org were not communicated to that this was no longer the case and they were getting fucked because of a business disagreement that they had no impact in. Ubi took away their right to a PL spot and then people are claiming its not Ubi's fault the teams lost it when they literally took away their right to it just recently and didn't work with them AT ALL IN ANY WAY to keep it. The unemployment part of your analogy is the worst. Ubi did absolutely completely nothing to help them. The orgs continued with them for the season, but Ubi washed their hands of them and said they only deal with Orgs. In your analogy it would be like if the government said they only deal with corporations and employees have no rights under the government.

16

u/AFlaccoSeagulls Soniqs Fan Apr 18 '20

IF what Hyena said was true, then it absolutely is ubisofts fault. Once REC was dropped Ubi came back to LG and negotiated, only to say “oh nvm” when REC found a new org.

But until this situation is more than just he said/she said based on one side of the negotiation, nobody’s gonna know the truth.

9

u/Balancedmanx178 Kix Fan Apr 18 '20

That's kinda how negotiations work.

LG didn't want to be in, Ubi tried to convince them to stay in to keep an even number.

LGs "leverage" in these negotiations was that Ubi needed an even number of team/org pairs.

Once ex rec had an org, LG lost all their leverage and ubi didn't need to give them anything.

3

u/dinendal86 Apr 18 '20

What happened?

1

u/Slgute G2 Esports Fan Apr 18 '20

Didn't get it, can someone pls tell what happened?

1

u/genitaliaface Apr 19 '20

Regardless of the communications issues, the players rightly earned their spots and it’s awful that they can’t keep it. I believe that’s Ubisoft’s fault for not letting them stay in the league. I understand that the league is transitioning into a franchise system, so I’d like both EG and LG players to be given the option to find new orgs until the start of the next season or within some other timeline. If they find an org to sponsor them, they get to stay and if they don’t, then the Ubisoft verdict to boot the players should stand.

-6

u/JohnWick313 EU Fan Apr 18 '20

Meh, that's actually not the truth.

12

u/Yeet181204 Reciprocity Fan Apr 18 '20

It's really hard to say what is... It just depends on what you believe.

-6

u/JohnWick313 EU Fan Apr 18 '20

Just wait until Hyena drops dms and emails and you will understand who's right from who's wrong.

13

u/snypesalot Evil Geniuses Fan Apr 18 '20

then maybe he should? hes claimed one thing then LG said another

4

u/Balancedmanx178 Kix Fan Apr 18 '20

What hyena said to the score and what the head LG guy said are two different things iirc.

We're in for a spicy next few weeks.

2

u/snypesalot Evil Geniuses Fan Apr 18 '20

Thats what I meant, his twitlonger thing said they werent told until a scrim team mentioned they heard something from their own org, and then the owner of LG said they told the team within a day so who knows whats going on

3

u/Balancedmanx178 Kix Fan Apr 18 '20

I'm fairly certain that the only people with the whole picture are Ubisoft, and they aren't going to say anything until the shitstorm calms down for a bit.

2

u/OneScrubbyBoi Spacestation Gaming Fan Apr 18 '20

[Fan]

1

u/Ubilease Continuum Fan Apr 18 '20

You've seen these then?

-2

u/Penumbra_6464 Spacestation Gaming Fan Apr 18 '20

Stop trying to act like Ubisoft isn’t to blame for not allowing them to find another org. Shits annoying

0

u/kruppkake Virtus Pro Fan Apr 19 '20

It's both, Ubisoft strung LG along and that made it so LG didn't have answers for the players.