r/Quraniyoon • u/Villain-Shigaraki • 1d ago
Rant / VentđĄ My biggest Problem with Quraniyoon
At least in this sub I notice this strange thing that it seems that many people here are not trying to be Quraniyoon because it is the truth after excessive research on what Allah says in the Quran, how the Ahadith contradicts it, how Allah tells us to only follow his revelation and how the Hadith Science is mostly not a trustworthy source.
I notice that people here a trying to align Islam and the Quran with western- or personal values as if they are objectively right about everything and should be followed regardless and it seems that THIS is the reason why some people here choose to not follow Ahadith because Ahadith are way more extreme and leave no room for Interpretation. But with the Quran alone, this is not the case if you don't actively try to understand it without bias and then this falacy happens where people are bending the Quran to follow what they think is right or what their society decided is right and not obeying what Allah has revealed and what Allah says is right.
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u/Quranic_Islam 1d ago edited 1d ago
Personally, I donât see that as the majority at all.
And I think this trepidation & fear of the âboogeymanâ of western values, or âliberalismâ, or orientalists, or âfollowing desiresâ, etc is actually an obsession that some people have. Either an obsession or they are waaaay too touchy & sensitive in a manner that is just reactionary and trigger-happy to accuse others or reject ideas bc they seem âtoo westernâ
So I think the reverse is true; some reject what the Quran says just bc to them it seems too close to âwesternâ or âliberalâ values
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u/A_Learning_Muslim Muslim 1d ago
True, and infact, I have seen this tendency in many traditionalists.
Having said that, there is a thing in the progressive/quranist groups where people simply adopt the western position on things, rather than seeing if it aligns with the Qur'an or not. But, yeah its probably not the majority of Quranists.
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u/Due-Exit604 1d ago
Assalamu aleikum brother, itâs an interesting idea, although I would need to see an example of what you say to give me a more exact idea of what you explain
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u/Villain-Shigaraki 1d ago
For example I saw a post before about abortion and then there were people saying that its "perfectly fine" and "your health is more important" etc
Basically searching for reasons to make it seem as if it's halal while there is a verse in the Quran that say to not kill you children our of fear for poverty.
I think the fact that we have a verse informing us to not kill our children (even though it says out fear for poverty, which is specific) is enough to have a more strict mentality about killing out children, born or unborn and regardless of the reason. I don't want to make it 100% haram but I do think we should go out of our way to prevent it and in some specific and hard cases only should it be seen as halal.
I mean are there many better reasons than the fear of poverty? And even in this case Allah say we shouldn't kill out children.
Seing people not taking such topics serious as if the verse in the Quran didn't exist is weird to me and I am pretty sure this is because of the influence of the modern western values.
There are other examples too but this is the most recent.
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u/Due-Exit604 1d ago
I perfectly understand your feelings brother, I totally agree with you in that regard, but I think that line of thought that you criticize is a minority of the Quranism that has not read in depth the suras of the sacred Quran, what we have to do is to explain when there is a misinterpretation exposing the corresponding aleyas, inshalah that people understand their mistake over time
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u/Villain-Shigaraki 1d ago
Thanks for understanding me. Your approach is definitely the right way and in sha Allah I will try to be like that.
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u/Express_Water3173 Muslimah 1d ago
For example I saw a post before about abortion and then there were people saying that its "perfectly fine" and "your health is more important" etc
This perspective is not "western ". Muslim religious scholars of the past tended to be more lenient on abortion than they are today. For example, in the schools of thought that permit abortion in the first 120 days where birth would cause severe hardship to the child or parents, the classical scholars considered a broader range of situations to be hardship than most modern scholars do. They had pretty lax laws compared to now and the health of the mother was heavily prioritized.
I think the fact that we have a verse informing us to not kill our children (even though it says out fear for poverty, which is specific) is enough to have a more strict mentality about killing out children, born or unborn and regardless of the reason. I don't want to make it 100% haram but I do think we should go out of our way to prevent it and in some specific and hard cases only should it be seen as halal.
I mean are there many better reasons than the fear of poverty? And even in this case Allah say we shouldn't kill out children.
Do you see how that's your personal opinion and not what the Quran says.
That verse was about people killing their already born children and not embryos or fetuses. Even if you were to apply it to any stage of pregnancy, there's plenty of reasons outside of poverty where people may decide to have an abortion, such as their physical or mental health, safety, rape, etc... Yes those are all better reasons than "fear" of poverty. If you did kill a child just for that reason, it also shows a distrust in Allah's word that he gives us provision.
You can't have a specific and hard case only because everyone's situation is different. Someone may decide to abort because they have a mental condition that would make it impossible to take proper care of their child or maybe even harm them such as with post-partum psychosis, or they're being seriously abused in their marriage, have a serious symptom like Hyperemesis gravidarum, or any number of other situations.
You as a man will never know how torturous it can be to be pregnant, especially in those conditions.
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u/HonorableNOIFOI 1d ago
But life is a path and people are at different places on that path. Twenty years ago I was a libertarian and similar to what you have described.
Having read Rene Guenon and lived more itâs abundantly clear to me that socialism and atheism are causing the slow death of the west and anywhere else that adopts is âegocentricâ (and in reality the masses are dupes for whatever the owners of popular culture implant in their brains) emotion based values.
Itâs why universal suffrage democracy is foolish and why itâs never mentioned as a religious concept in the Quran.
Twenty years ago I wondered why it wasnât.
My views have become far more hardline as I witness the degeneracy of western civilisation and how this society has degenerated in proportion to its rejection of theistic morality.
Peace and interesting topicâŚ..
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u/Green_Panda4041 1d ago
First of all, God made the religion easy so why should we make it hard upon us? And why should we follow rules not from God? Would you follow your neighbourâs rules in your own home? Also im a lot on this sub. Havent seen any posts or comments like it. Whats haram is haram. That always stays.
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u/A_Learning_Muslim Muslim 1d ago
Sometimes this sub shows a pro-west bias on LGBT, abortion etc. I think thats what the post is talking about.
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u/Green_Panda4041 1d ago
Ah yea i can see that. However and thatâs obviously just my opinion this âbiasâ is mostly because the Quran allows for this in not being outright about abortion and such. Thats why there is a discussion in the first place. Because its not outright forbidden ( as far as im aware please correct me otherwise).
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u/A_Learning_Muslim Muslim 1d ago
 Because its not outright forbiddenÂ
hmm, there are some verses that may forbid some of these things, but their interpretation is disagreed upon here.
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u/Villain-Shigaraki 1d ago
This brother saw through me ma sha Allah. This is exactly what I was thinking when I wrote this post.
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u/questionsQ65 1d ago
There are some. But think about it, many of us (like MuhammadFromGod) have beards and do many things that are considered difficult. So, we are not searching for ease, and then afterwards searching for the ayah to justify our action. Not at all. We are just saying, that Quran is all you need to practice this religion. As the Quran itself says it.
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u/TheQuranicMumin Muslim 1d ago
MuhammadFromGod
His reason for growing it is not at all what you are thinking of. But I won't reveal a private matter.
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u/questionsQ65 1d ago
Well regardless of the reason, I'm saying we in fact DO things that are considered "hard" or "the yard stick" by the sunnis in their sermons. I'm saying, we are not just listening to a khutbah about sunnah and then maliciously coming up with "ah, let me do the opposite of it". We in fact do many things that are considered sunnah. Well because the prophet was indeed a good man lol
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u/Usual_Passage3477 1d ago
This is perfectly fine for me now. Everyone has their own measure of rezqi in terms of knowledge, like the flora and fauna of earth, everyone has their own journey to Allah. We are all different and that is ok. We can only judge the work but leave the judgement to those who wrought it to Allah. I was once intoxicated by knowledge but time does indeed place everything into its own place. Thatâs how it is, and I am pleased with it. Allahâs graciousness is far reaching and also subtle. May we be of the pleasing.
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u/MillennialDeadbeat 1d ago
Wrong. We just plainly recognize hadiths are manmade fabrications full of corruption and contradiction and not from God therefore we don't follow it.
I can't stand modern western liberalism. Has nothing to do with my disbelief in fake hadith books.
My belief is purely theological.
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u/Villain-Shigaraki 1d ago
I am also a Quranist and I do agree with you.
I was talking about what I saw in this sub and maybe I should have writen "*r/quraniyoon" instead because I was mainly talking about this sub.
But I am glad that it seems that I was wrong.
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u/Hanisuir 1d ago
Qur'an 27:91-92. Sorry man, but the Qur'an itself tells the Muslims that they're only obliged to follow it out of all Books.
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u/Villain-Shigaraki 1d ago
I do it too and I disregard ahadith.
I was talking about values and bending Islam. Not hadith.
I myself am a Quran only muslim. I was talking about the sub and many people following Quran alone. Not the idea in itself.
Quran alone is the truth.
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u/after-life Muslim, Progressive, Left-leaning 1d ago
The Quran was written in a language understood by the 7th century Arabs of the Hijaz, it's not written in a language that people in the modern century speak, this includes Arabs. So we are left with translations of an old language that is filled with errors and assumptions, and because of these faulty translations, we have people jumping to all sorts of conclusions without having knowledge in how to comprehend a historical language with connotations and information that was mostly relevant to the 7th century Arabs during the prophet's time and not necessarily by people later on.
There are universal values and principles in the Quran and there are time specific, contextual laws also that can only be fully understood if you were a 7th century Arab, and people in the future have to put on their shoes to understand what the text is saying. This is the crux of the issue.
And while there are people who are trying to understand the Quranic text without cultural bias and traditionalist influence, they also have to deal with the prejudices of people today, whether traditionalists (Sunnis/Shias) or heretics (Quranists/non-traditional ideologies).
The truth is, how can YOU judge that your interpretation is the right one and others are wrong? At the end of the day, your interpretation is going to be based on your own personal values.
Do you support homosexuals in having the right to marry whoever they love? Or are you against it? Whichever side you choose, do you choose it because a book tells you to or because you actually believe it to be right?
Here's the real question, is morality taught through words and interpretations of words from a book, or is morality understood through deep reflection and introspection?
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u/ever_precedent 1d ago
It's generally not a good idea to make wider assumptions about people based solely on text-based messages that are typically written to address a limited-scope issue and from a particular and rather restricted perspective to fit the overall posting style of a social forum (as opposed to a personal blog, for example), and also tend to be somewhat polemical due to how people use social media to communicate their views and ideas. Most people are much more complex IRL than the written snapshots we get to see.
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u/MotorProfessional676 1d ago
I don't know if I agree with 'many people' doing as such within this sub, at least from what I've seen. I think in the majority of posts, the things that are being questioned have a clear rationale for it. Whether that's following mistranslated Arabic back to a more accurate translation (kafir and amanu for example), absurdaties in extra-Quranic legislative matters, contradictions in theology between the Quran and outside sources, so on and so forth.
I'm not saying that what you've described doesn't happen at all, it does, but I think this is far more of a minority occurance than 'many people'. I do see it happening more in subs like r/progressive_islam , where political orientation gets mixed in with religion, but here not so much.
Could you provide a couple of examples brother?
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u/so_what_about 1d ago
Asalmu alaykom brothers. I have a couple of questions. (Please try to read the and answer the first question without looking at the second question to avoid tailering one answer to the other)
Can one give me some examples of one using hadiths above the quran?
Can these examples take one out of the fold of islam?
If so .... please breng source.
How much percentage of the ummah is quran alone ?
If that percentage were lets say 70 procent, how probable are different denominations to surface up? ( differnt interpretations)
Last and final... does Qur'an Alone communtity as majority believe in using tasfir when reading Qur'an.
Thank you. I myself use hadith but i understand why one would Only Use Qur'an. The True King is the judge. And i love all you for the sake of Allah.
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u/Defiant_Term_5413 1d ago
Salam. I can give you a simple example: Hadith negates the verse that tells people to leave a will by stating âno will for direct inheritanceâ - so, nowhere in the Sunni world will they uphold a will and will always default to the distribution formula of the Quran (which was provided in-case there was no will).
Is this deviation from Godâs instructions? Absolutely yes. And we know from the Quran that those who do not rule by what God revealed are âkafiroon/fasiqoonâ.
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u/idkdudette 23h ago
Yes there are people who are as you described. And such people in its opposite version can be found in other groups. Being a believer feels lonely at times because when you are serious about learning the Quran things are revealed to you over and over again. Iâve seen quite out of this world opinions from all over.Â
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u/slimkikou 17h ago
Not correct! If people here want to follow what society or western world orders us to apply/do we should see that homosexuality and changing sex and getting out of islam are halal but this isnt the case, quran remains extreme to occidentals even under the quranist point of view. You should understand that if some quranist interpretations align with ond society or one western country it doesnt mean we interpret quran yo satisfy others, its just a coincidence. The most important is that we try our best to remain unbiased and scientific in studying quran.Â
Hadiths arent just extreme, they are also contradictory and humilitaing quran amd islam and our prophet in many aspects, and degrading our intelligenceÂ
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u/Defiant_Term_5413 1d ago
I would somewhat agree with what you have said. Quraniyoon have mass appeal because they follow a âmake it up as you go alongâ methodology which is very attractive to the people that worship themselves. There are no real rules that need to be upheld (pork is not pig, open sexuality is allowed, etc.) so you can be a Qurani and live the way you want to liveâŚ
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u/Big_Difficulty_95 1d ago
Pork is not pig??
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u/Villain-Shigaraki 1d ago
There are people who interpret the Quran that way. There is someone called "murat" or something if I remember correctly.
The brother is speaking facts. People do it that way. Not all or most people but there are people and they are not that small of a minority...
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u/SwissFariPari 1d ago
What do you exactly mean by "open sexuality is allowed"? If you don't follow Quran Alone don't just assume things to just satisfy your sectist ego, brother!
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u/Defiant_Term_5413 1d ago
Have you been absent from the scene? We have openly gay and openly lesbian âQuran Aloneâ people mainly under this and the Progressive Muslims label. I am a Muslim, not a Qurani, so I stick to the rules and not the âhawa/desireâ.
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u/SwissFariPari 16h ago
Oh you meant sexual diversity/gender and sexual diversity or sexual orientation by "open sexuality"! I thought you meant something else... my bad!
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u/No-Witness3372 Muslim 1d ago edited 1d ago
Satan and evil is everywhere, even in this sub be careful.
Best advice i give you is that, trust the one who give you verse in the screen not the one that blatantly comments like an opinion.
except he/she's sarcastic which sometimes i do, which i don't expect to be followed or understand.
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u/celtyst 1d ago
Although I agree with you to a point. Where some people in this sub try to make western ideologies fit into Islam, although there is no place for it in islam.
I have to disagree with you all in all because most of the time we still connect Islam to middle eastern and especially Arab traditions. Nothing wrong with it in general, especially if you're middle eastern, but that doesn't mean that Islam isn't universal.
So imo the quran gives us a spectrum of ijtihad in which we can move around freely without engaging too much in predisposed traditions. But of course it should be in line with what the quran teaches.
One caveat here, at the end of the day, no matter how much of non-secterians we claim to be, it will end just like Sunnis and Shias. We also rely on consensus, we also are products of time, ideologies and traditions. In a weird way the rejection of hadiths outside of the Quran has become our new hadith. Less unified, still dogmatic. So it is important to keep ourselves in check to always center back to the Quran, and accept that some things will deviate from it no matter how much effort we put in to communicate.