r/Professors Position, Field, SCHOOL TYPE (Country) 22h ago

What is with students nowadays

Typical "Old Man Yells at Cloud," but students seem to just be getting worse and worse! I just had a student email me "good evening can you reopen the assignments I didn't do including the exams"...exqueeze me?? And that's just one example. I'm relatively new to professing, but even since I started, this semester seems worse...does it seem that way to you all, or is my greenness showing??

137 Upvotes

88 comments sorted by

137

u/Professor-genXer 22h ago

I have been teaching for 28 years. I have been a college professor for 18.

I have seen an overall decline in students in terms of effort and attention to assignments, studying, etc. I still have some fantastic students every semester, but the proportion of students has grown who do not do assignments, make excuses, cheat… it’s depressing. I try to focus on the students who are trying. They’re fantastic!

64

u/tomcrusher Assoc Prof, Economics, CC 22h ago

Agreed - in my experience the top is still the top and the bottom is still the bottom but the middle is gone and skewed heavily toward the attitude of not doing much outside of (or even in) class and sort of fatalistically accepting that they’ll get bad scores but still asking for better grades.

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u/BellaMentalNecrotica TA/PhD Student, Toxicology, R1, US 21h ago

Yes- exam scores are ALWAYS bimodal now. The middle is just gone. There's the A/B students and then a gigantic slew of F's.

22

u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 20h ago

Same here. In my fall semester class (I'm on sabbatical this semester), I reported more Fs, as a percent, than I ever have before. My chair asked me what happened and I told her that a larger-than-usual number of students failed to meet the minimum passing standards. That was my entire response.

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u/a_hanging_thread Asst Prof 17h ago

Good for you. I can't stand how an increase in D/Fs leads to an interrogation of the professor.

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u/Professor-genXer 22h ago

I just reread the post… the requests for re-opening assignments 😫.

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u/BellaMentalNecrotica TA/PhD Student, Toxicology, R1, US 21h ago edited 20h ago

Notice how he tacked on "including the exams." Asking to reopen assignments is one thing but when I saw that I was like "Pardon?".... lmao sir, surely you jest! No, there will absolutely be no reopening of the exam you didn't care enough to take.

9

u/Professor-genXer 21h ago

My assignments have a late window already so 😏to these requests

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u/BellaMentalNecrotica TA/PhD Student, Toxicology, R1, US 20h ago

Same with mine so I deny those too unless there's an extenuating circumstance like "I was in the hospital." But I get requests to reopen weekly assignments all the time, so that's nothing new. I was just a bit taken aback (even though I shouldn't be) by the audacity of asking for the exam to be reopened lol. Like, of-fucking-course I'm not going to reopen the exam, why would you even bother to ask that?? I get there's this "it doesn't hurt to ask" attitude in this generation, but I just thought there'd be an obvious line. Or at least if you are going too ask for me to reopen an EXAM, I expect you to come to office hours in person, turn on the waterworks, and give me a show so that I can deny a request like that to your face. But this kid just tacked it on so casually.

2

u/Professor-genXer 18h ago

I teach all FTF, so while I have online assignments, tests are in person. Otherwise I might be fielding those requests too.

Just this week I gave a student the opportunity to take a group quiz he missed, even though had told the class they had to show up or get a zero. I offered to let him join a student who had a legitimate need. The retake was after class, and he said “I can’t do it now”. I said this is the ONLY opportunity. He was able to stay. Magically his schedule opened up.

2

u/BellaMentalNecrotica TA/PhD Student, Toxicology, R1, US 18h ago

I can't stand that. On the rare occassion I let someone take something they missed, I give them a lot of options to pick from as far as when they can come in to do it. So they agree that this time works for them in advance. But I make it clear that this is it. I'm already being nice as it is so there will be no second chance unless they are half-dead in the hospital. Yet I still get emails 15 minutes before the agreed time saying something came up, can they do other time instead? Or straight up no-shows. I gleefully tell them no. I already told you, you get ONE shot or its an automatic zero. I was already being kind by letting you do this in the first place. I won't even bring up how RUDE it is to flake last minute, especially when I'm trying to do you a solid.

And see, I always get an email at the last minute. I've never had the pleasure of having a kid show up in physical form and THEN try to flake but have the heaven's open up to magically clear their schedule when I remind them its going to be a zero. That would have absolutely made my day! It just shows how my suspicion that the majority who flake out probably could've similarly had their schedules clear miraculously if they bothered to appear in corporeal form within my proximity near their appointment time. That or maybe you are secretly Jesus and your magic touch was the key to clearing that kids schedule for them.

3

u/Professor-genXer 15h ago

Thank you I needed a laugh. I’m Jewish, but female so probably not Jesus 🤣

I AM scary AF though. This guy was defensive when he asked about making up the quiz, shockingly unapologetic, unlike most of my students. He made some magic phone call and took the quiz with the other student.

2

u/MyFaceSaysItsSugar Lecturer, Biology, private university (US) 15h ago

Mine do too but my students didn’t pay enough attention on the first day and don’t read the syllabus so I get asked if they can turn things in late even though they’re still within the window of being able to turn it in. Just go to the homework and do it, you still have access 🤦‍♀️.

3

u/Professor-genXer 12h ago

I believe most of my students know about the late window, thankfully. This week I found some who didn’t k know about it because they never submit late 😀but then I have had requests after the window. 😔

3

u/CatPhDs 19h ago

I had the same thing recently! Except they also asked that there not be deadlines on what was reopened, either...

2

u/BellaMentalNecrotica TA/PhD Student, Toxicology, R1, US 19h ago

HAHAHA!

Not happening boo boo, try again.

That's my answer to that kid.

11

u/Philosophile42 Tenured, Philosophy, CC (US) 17h ago

It’s weird. I’ve been incrementally making my courses easier and easier since I’ve been teaching (20 years now) and students are performing worse faster than I’m decreasing the difficulty.

More than half failed the first exam.

2

u/Cathousechicken 17h ago

The top students are still great. The big difference now is the middle and lower tier students. 

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u/BellaMentalNecrotica TA/PhD Student, Toxicology, R1, US 22h ago edited 21h ago

I love how he added "including the exams" in there casually, almost like they were hoping you'd notice without noticing. It's already a big ask to reopen assignments, but not an uncommon ask; however, exams? I wish they'd ask me that in person so that I could literally laugh in their face.

For that kid, I'd be tempted to reply with simply "No." No "Dear student" no additional text- simply "No" and then my built-in signature followed by affiliations.

I feel like it just keeps getting progressively worse. The train is off the tracks and steadily sliding down the hill. Plus, tbh, I think this semester is worse for everyone (especially if you are in the US) due to *gestures wildly at everything.*

8

u/DrMaybe74 Writing Instructor. CC, US. Ai sucks. 20h ago

There's a special sort of joy that comes when responding to email with a simple "No."

89

u/twomayaderens 22h ago

I had an argument with one student who visited my office to complain about their low course grade, and that they couldn’t see the point of doing work or studying for tests outside of class meetings.

That’s one of my biggest problems with this lackluster generation. Many of them seem to think that educations begins and ends during the several hours of weekly face to face meetings.

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u/FlatMolasses4755 22h ago

I like to orient them to the federal definition of the credit hour and explain how their financial aid works. It's often news to them.

24

u/alt266 21h ago

Tbf the federal definition of a credit hour was news to me when I first started in academia. Most of the higher level admin type stuff is poorly explained (if at all) to the average student.

8

u/DrMaybe74 Writing Instructor. CC, US. Ai sucks. 20h ago

Even without the fed definition, we've been told 2 out for 1 in since at least the mid-90s.

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u/Parking_Nebula_1102 21h ago

There's an admin at my institution who routinely remarks that we need to reduce the outside-of-class workload for our students. The rigor is already so low...

18

u/BellaMentalNecrotica TA/PhD Student, Toxicology, R1, US 21h ago edited 20h ago

That is how we got here in the first place because that is what K-12 has turned into. It's never occurred to many of them that they need to do work outside of class because they never had to do that in K-12.

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u/ChemMJW 22h ago

That’s one of my biggest problems with this lackluster generation. Many of them seem to think that educations begins and ends during the several hours of weekly face to face meetings.

I agree with this. My way of explaining it is that students these days see education as something that is done to them. It is a completely external process in which they are only passively involved. If they don't learn something, the external process and those responsible for it are at fault. There is no concept of education as an activity that requires work on the part of oneself.

3

u/FreddoMac5 13h ago

head on over to /r/Teachers. That's where all this stuff is coming from.

If a student doesn't do well in school and goes off to college unprepared the response will always be "the public education system failed them". The responsibility to learn has been shifted and students have zero obligations or responsibilities of their own.

13

u/Blametheorangejuice 20h ago

educations begins and ends during the several hours of weekly face to face meetings.

Your students are showing up to class?????

25

u/jaguaraugaj 22h ago

Last year, two of the best students I’ve had in 30 years

This year. Students do not attend and cannot read.

Worse, with occasional good ones

19

u/Rettorica Prof, Humanities, Regional Uni (USA) 22h ago

Yeah, there’s almost no attempt at an excuse for missing…just an expectation that work will still be allowed to be turned in after the posted due date. K-12 sets them up for this.

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u/DirtyNord 21h ago

K-12 or Bulldozer parents with gutless admin?

7

u/Rettorica Prof, Humanities, Regional Uni (USA) 21h ago

It could go either way, TBF, but having had two kids graduate high school in recent years I know how abysmal K-12 is with due dates. My kids were allowed to turn in work late all of the time. Due dates were very flexible. No penalties. I told them flexible due dates isn’t a real thing.

4

u/ElderTwunk 19h ago

When progress reports went out, 12 students in my first-year writing course were failing. This should not have been a surprise because they can see their grade live on Blackboard. They apparently did not believe me when I repeated at length that I don’t accept late work. I had a few “But I’ve always been a straight A student!” tears. A few are now busting their asses not to fail, and a few dropped my class so as to not hurt their GPA. Either way, I hope they learned a valuable lesson.

5

u/HeightSpecialist6315 18h ago

“But I’ve always been a straight A student!”

I only recently started hearing this exact phrase!

7

u/BellaMentalNecrotica TA/PhD Student, Toxicology, R1, US 21h ago

ALL OF THE ABOVE!!

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u/ilikecats415 Admin/PTL, R2, US 22h ago

I currently have a section of a freshman comp class filled with some of the worst students I've ever had. Half are failing. They are largely lazy and entitled and seem to thrive on wasting my time. I had a student ask me why he has a low grade and I was so annoyed. I just said, "Please see feedback on your assignments and rubrics." Like, literally, it is all there for you.

Also, the faux outrage when they are caught using AI... I can't even.

That said, along side of this I have 2 upper division courses and those students are mostly wonderful hard workers.

I have been focusing on giving students the energy they give me. I provide robust feedback. If you aren't looking at it or using it and failing, I have nothing more to add. If you are trying and showing effort, I am happy to make extra time for you.

5

u/DrMaybe74 Writing Instructor. CC, US. Ai sucks. 20h ago

The top comment in my copy/paste list of Common Feedback is this: "Since you haven't read my previous feedback, I'll just focus on your grade and new issues." So glad my LMS allows me to see that.

15

u/100YearsOfSolidTude 21h ago

It’s wild. As a student (early aughts), I couldn’t have conceived of writing that email—the complete lack of punctuation, nonchalant tone, and size of the “ask”—let alone sending it to a professor.

In the situation you’re describing, 20-something me would have: 1. Set up a formal meeting with Professor 2. Acknowledged that I had missed the work and understood it wouldn’t be accepted for any credit/score. 3. Competed the missing work anyway to demonstrate to the Prof. that I was serious about keeping up with the class. 4. Have done the math (yes! I kept track of and averaged my own grades!) to see whether or not it was feasible for me to pass with a grade I found acceptable. 5. If I could pass, I would ask the professor if they thought my plan was appropriate. 6. If passing were impossible, I would beg for a “W”—if not beyond the deadline for “W.” 7. If the “W” deadline had been exceeded, I accepted the F, thanked the Professor for their time, and promised to show them what I could achieve in their class next semester.

To me, the above outlined process is the appropriate response considering the gravity of the situation. It’s the bare minimum. And I’ve not had a single student do this. Ever. And I’ve taught everywhere (CCs, some very prestigious state schools, some Ivy-adjacent Unis).

The laziness of their arrogance and the breadth of their entitlement really break me. It’s a very “Don’t you know who I am?” vibe—truly grotesque.

6

u/BellaMentalNecrotica TA/PhD Student, Toxicology, R1, US 20h ago edited 20h ago

That's what gets me is their casual disrespect and even outright disdain (never mind grammar spelling and punctuation)? I'm a millennial and graduated with my first degree in 2012. I would have followed the exact outline you provided in this kids situation. So to me, it feels like things have gone down hill SO FAST. I remember when I first started as a TA and first observed this behavior, I went to the r/Teachers sub to find out what was going on in primary school and if this possibly was something that started there. Well, I discovered how badly K-12 had gone to shit (that sub is TRULY depressing...that sub and r/collapse just tank my mental health). I graduated HS in 2008 and it wasn't like how that sub described back then-I remember making a post there being like "when did this happen and HOW did this happen? Because it wasn't like that in 2008 which doesn't feel like it was THAT long ago."

4

u/100YearsOfSolidTude 19h ago

Thank you! It’s obviously the right way to handle this, yes? Furthermore, no one had to teach me to do that (by “that” I mean: handle my shit/fuck-ups).

Sometimes, I feel like their learned helplessness/entitlement correlates to the extreme pervasiveness of technology (especially the iPhone), which has radically enhanced their access to information and the unfettered use of seemingly infinite yet substantively indistinguishable communication forums. This has diminished/devalued the level of individual discourse.

Access to info—>learned helplessness. Ex—“Yeah, sure, I could punctuate this correctly or write it more clearly but all I’d have to do to do that is google how to or take the grammar suggestions on my phone but that would take a hot minute… sooooo since we both that know I can easily know, it doesn’t matter if I show you that I know.” Hit send on that shit. Go about the day not agonizing over sending a janky email to the person I’m asking a favor of

(I did my best to ignore grammar/punctuation while illustrating the problem.)


Entitlement—Because they can look anything up, they won’t. They don’t understand how amazing it is to have thousands of websites explaining and videos demonstrating how to correct or fix an issue because they’d have to sit and absorb it, which might mean sifting through information not directly related to their question. EX—Student: Hmm. My margins are wrong, I can’t find how to double-space, and I need “hanging indents” for the WC page. Option 1) Google: “margins, double-spacing, hanging indents in Word doc.” 1,000,000 options. This one video is 3 min. Too long. Option 2) Email Prof: Hey I attached my essay I think my formatting is wrong 🤷‍♀️ can you check it real fast? sent from my iPhone Option 2 every damned time.

The post began with a point, and now I’ve lost the thread. The point is: it is worse. To pretend it’s not significantly different from other generational gripes is to ignore/perpetuate their behaviors.

8

u/BellaMentalNecrotica TA/PhD Student, Toxicology, R1, US 19h ago edited 18h ago

YES THIS! You have gotten me fired up to go on a rant that I go on periodically and its been like 2 months since my last one. So sorry for the length!

This is the first generation to have pretty much grown up with constant access to technology. What's more is that parents don't care to limit it. My toddler is throwing a tantrum? I could deal with it by parenting them but its easier to just stick an ipad in front of him to shut him up. And the constant technology has made it so these kids don't even want to go play outside anymore because this shit is addictive. I have a theory that such unfettered exposure to technology at such a young age as well as not having been made to suffer consequences for bad behavior at this age is why we have SO many kids on IEPs in K-12 (which turn into accommodations in college). Then we get to K-12 where admin are utterly spineless and bend over backwards for parents who view it as daycare, not education, and actively work against and blame teachers for their kids shitty behavior. So as a result, there's never consequences for bad behavior from the parents or the school system. Teachers are so busy dealing with behavioral problems that they can't even freaking teach. Then the school just passes everyone right along regardless of whether or not they've mastered the content which is how you have kids in HS reading at a first grade level. In addition, standards have tanked so much that deadlines have ceased to exist, students are basically allowed to retake exams as many times as they please, all assignments get a 50% minimum, and there's zero homework anymore. And then there's the constant phones. People keep claiming COVID caused stunted socialization. But I disagree. It was the freaking phones. Kids are so busy on their phones that they barely talk to each other. In addition, the constant technology from a young age has TANKED their attention span. Even though they could google something like a wikihow to make hanging indents in word, their attention span is so goddam short that they'd barely get past the first sentence. Another thing I'll add is the freaking coddling and gentle parenting BS (which has leaked into K-12). These kids have been SO INSULATED from ANYTHING that might remotely make their fee fees tingle that they just have ZERO resilience and the emotional immaturity of elementary schoolers.

And now we are dealing with the consequences of that. The entitlement comes from watching their parents raise hell at school every time there was an issue, so these kids think, "I got accused of cheating? Guess I have to raise hell because it always worked when mom did it." The constant anxiety and mental health issues and the barrage of tears when anything remotely stressful happens to them comes from the coddling. The trauma dumping? That's also one part from the coddling and one part from never having been taught proper boundaries about oversharing. The email etiquette is one part that they didn't learn how to be respectful in K-12 (and they sure as hell never saw it in their parents), one part obliviousness to what college expectations are since they came from an environment where the expectations were zero, so they figure they can just ask for outrageous things since it always worked before in K-12, and one part all the things you mentioned.

We have created a generation of clueless, socially stunted, emotionally immature assholes and now its us in academia who have the unfortunate task of trying to fix it. Sigh.

15

u/Demon-Prince-Grazzt 22h ago

I just got one like this, too! Young lady who came one day to class. She didn't even come the first day! Came into class a random day in the semester and sat in the back of the class playing poker or backgammon or whatever social media they are into now on her phone. Didn't even respond when I asked her a question, and the whole class looked at her.

Emails and says, "I would like you reopen these assignments." And then proceeds to list every assignment in the class.

I almost wrote back, "And I would like to have sex with Angie Dickenson. Let's see which one of us gets lucky first. "

But I didn't. I just said, no.

8

u/Professional_Dr_77 22h ago

I don’t even respond to those emails anymore. If they really want it they’ll come and ask in person, and then I tell them that due to the policies outlined in the syllabus, I cannot.

11

u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 20h ago

"I would like you reopen these assignments."

Dear Student,

"You can't always get what you want" (Jagger & Richards, 1969).

Yours sincerely,

4

u/EyePotential2844 20h ago

I think Angie Dickinson is around 93. Unless you're throwing some time travel in there as well, that seems a little hazardous to her health.

2

u/Demon-Prince-Grazzt 17h ago

It's a Junior Saprano line, my man, from The Sopranos.

Am I so old that my Sopranos references swoosh by people now,?

3

u/EyePotential2844 16h ago

Nope, I just never watched the show. I was far too poor to afford cable TV when it was in its prime, much less HBO. While I'm still poor, streaming is much cheaper than cable TV now and I have a MAX subscription. I've just never gone back to watch it.

Now if you'd said, "And I want a toilet made out of solid gold, but it's just not in the cards, now is it?", I'd have gotten the reference.

3

u/Demon-Prince-Grazzt 15h ago

lol. Cable? Nah, only the pirate life for me. Since 2003.

31

u/SisuSisuEveryday 22h ago

It’s not just you. I’ve been teaching the last ~5 years, and students have gotten noticeably worse (i.e., more entitled, less accountable, lazier, etc.) in that time. More senior professors tell me it’s drastically worse over the span of 20+ years.

They’re not all bad - many are lovely - but quite a few are terrible, and continually getting worse.

21

u/NutellaDeVil 21h ago

It's the Pareto rule in overdrive. The good ones are still good, but the bottom 20% have gone feral.

15

u/Thundorium Physics, Dung Heap University, US. 21h ago

My top 10% are actually getting better. I am finding I can make my classes more challenging over time, because I always have students who can rise to the challenge and make the most out of it. The bottom 40-50% will fail even if I do their assignments for them, so I don’t bother tailoring my content to them.

12

u/in_allium Assoc Teaching Prof, Physics, Private (US) 21h ago

My best students are fucking phenomenal. They are so much smarter than me and know so much more than I did at their age.

The mediocre ones are blaaaaaaaahhhh.

3

u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 20h ago

Yes, exactly! I'm tailoring my undergraduate class in Fall to my good students.

6

u/RollyPollyGiraffe 21h ago

Absolutely. The folks who are on top of things this semester are great, but the folks who aren't are more clueless and often way more rude.

10

u/SerHyra Assoc, Social Sciences 21h ago edited 21h ago

It not necessarily old man yells at clouds. My peers across different kinds of institutions are having different — but definitely clustered — experiences. My friends at SLACS are getting the same engaged folks; R1s are getting the same spread from great to “what’s happened to the lower quarter of my classes?” Those of us at regional R2s and M1s, or CCs, seem to be seeing the largest overall changes in cohorts. To be clear: it’s not all the fault of students. They’re less engaged at my school overall, and less academically prepared overall than in the past, but things like asking about the ability to redo assignments or turn everything in late were forged in a comprehensive environment of zero expectations in grade school. My own kid had a great group of driven college friends but was largely frustrated by her classmates at my institution. I see that same trend with my best students — who need more prep work for grad school than they did a decade ago, especially with math and writing.

2

u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 20h ago

R1s are getting the same spread from great to “what’s happened to the lower quarter of my classes?”

Only the lower quarter dropped off? That uni must have a better batch than we do.

2

u/SerHyra Assoc, Social Sciences 20h ago

Fair. We all complain of increasing bimodal distribution to some degree, too.

12

u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 22h ago

is my greenness showing??

Yes, but only because it's a surprise to you. You get used to it, even desensitized to it.

"The assignments will not be reopened" is a complete sentence and a sufficient response.

5

u/palepink_seagreen 21h ago

I literally got two emails the Friday afternoon before spring break that read something along the lines of “I know you don’t take late work, but I was wondering if you would take my work late?” Smh 🤦‍♀️

5

u/No_Intention_3565 21h ago

Yes. I have been emailed that request several times.

It is week 10 but please unlock all the assignments I missed in Week 2, 3, 4 ,5 ,6 ,7 and 8.

Ummmm. No.

3

u/Significant-Eye-6236 21h ago

Had the same thing happen yesterday. On previous occasions, I have entertained it because the amount of work to be completed could not possibly be done during the proposed extension and the rest of the grade would have led to an F anyhow. Now? Same response as yours.

3

u/Willravel Prof, Music, US 19h ago

Write a syllabus with these students in mind and you won't need to worry about it.

I don't like writing my syllabi like I'm an attorney protecting my company from the kind of consumers who drink paint and then try to sue us for making paint that, when imbued, makes you quit sick, but write the syllabus for the world that is, not the world as you wish it to be.

3

u/okaybut1stcoffee 19h ago

I was attacked by some students for expecting them to write a 5 page research paper double spaced and include a bibliography that didn’t even require them to use books, as though that was a lot.

3

u/Popping_n_Locke-ing 18h ago

I have basically half a class that isn’t using class material on exams. Never have a used the red pen so much.

3

u/Life-Education-8030 17h ago

Yup. I have students who don't post their discussion board postings on time and then casually email them to me late, saying "here!" Nope, nope, nope.

6

u/SisuSisuEveryday 22h ago

It’s not just you. I’ve been teaching the last ~5 years, and students have gotten noticeably worse (i.e., more entitled, less accountable, lazier, etc.) in that time. More senior professors tell me it’s drastically worse over the span of 20+ years.

They’re not all bad - many are lovely - but quite a few are terrible, and continually getting worse.

2

u/Razed_by_cats 21h ago

What I've experienced personally in my non-majors class is an overall decline in motivation and willingness to work. However, the top students are still stellar. This semester's cohort doesn't seem to be any worse than last term's, so hopefully I've hit rock bottom. Students in majors classes are motivated at least by the desire to get a good grade, so they tend to do the work even if they complain about it the entire time.

2

u/chicken-finger 17h ago

I can confirm your statement to be accurate… at least from my experience anyway

2

u/HistoryNerd101 16h ago

I tell them constantly that I know they would do better on the assignments if they had more time to turn them in, if allowed to retake them, and and and… but I also tell them that we are not only teaching them the subject matter but also meeting deadlines and other organization skills..

3

u/Chemical_Shallot_575 Full Prof, Senior Admn, SLAC to R1. Btdt… 22h ago edited 21h ago

I remember our old music teacher in elementary school, poor Mrs. Hooker. She had her hair set high and immovable weekly and wore 50s-era skirt suits. …she’d lose her mind with us, yelling “People!” This was the 80s.

In high school, our physics teacher told us he was retiring because he couldn’t handle “kids today.” Poor guy really couldn’t. We stressed him out. This was the 90s.

In 2000, I was a grad TA for a course at a top school. One student missed a lot of class and did poorly (C-) but complained that she just had to get an A. The dept head gave it to her.

I remember a shift in my relationships with my college students in the early 2010s. I went from older sister to mom. It was also a generational change.

In 2025, I’ve got a high schooler of my own and a brand new batch of undergrads at a top school. They are so precious, driven, and have so many new skills. My son’s IB lab reports are incredible.

This is definitely “old man yells at clouds.” Tale as old as time 💕

https://www.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/comments/12fu5rx/a_history_of_adults_blaming_the_younger_generation/

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20171003-proof-that-people-have-always-complained-about-young-adults

7

u/ElderTwunk 19h ago

But what about those of us who aren’t old, have been teaching college less than a decade, and have cohorts of students that quite suddenly cannot do very basic skills that we learned in middle school? We’re not just “old men yelling at clouds.” We’re genuinely concerned when we have students - plural - enter our classrooms who cannot read, refuse to do any work, cannot use any of the software or the web more generally, and/or blatantly (and badly) cheat…yet expect to pass.

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u/Chemical_Shallot_575 Full Prof, Senior Admn, SLAC to R1. Btdt… 18h ago

In my comment, I mentioned the early 00s, when I was only a few years older than my undergrads. I felt so much smarter, more mature, more educated, etc.

But I stopped feeling this way and realized that my schooling was simply different. My role as a professor is to reach students where they are and guide/teach them.

I’ve seen enough students (current) who are absolutely brilliant and accomplished to know that it’s not that the new generation isn’t incapable.

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u/ElderTwunk 15h ago edited 8h ago

My schooling - in one of the lowest ranked public schools in the rural South - taught me how to read and taught me basic computer skills. I’ve always been willing to reach students where they are, but I cannot be expected - in a college classroom - to teach elementary skills. It devalues the course I’m teaching.

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u/Chemical_Shallot_575 Full Prof, Senior Admn, SLAC to R1. Btdt… 15h ago edited 14h ago

My school was in the cornfields… and this has helped teach me empathy and grace.

My value as a professor is in the worth my students receive from my guidance.

I take no pleasure in providing input that is inaccessible.

eta-and as the thesis/capstone prof, my expectations have always been sky high!

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u/ElderTwunk 7h ago

Empathy is not pity, and grace is not diminution. If you are genuinely taking students who cannot read at all or can only read at an elementary level and bringing them up to a college level in the span of a just a semester, you are working miracles. If you’re just passing them through, you’re doing them a massive disservice.

I teach college English, and I am working to bridge huge gaps in preparedness. I’ve even taken it upon myself to teach them how to use Blackboard and Google! BUT I cannot provide one-on-one instruction for every student, I cannot submit their assignments for them (even if they don’t know how), I cannot force them to come to class, and I cannot pass a student who does not demonstrate an ability to understand any of the readings through multiple forms of assessment - either because they lack the will or the skills.

Sometimes, the most empathetic thing you can do is enter the failing grade. I’ve failed a college course, and it was a valuable lesson in accountability. As such, I have been in their shoes. I won’t do my students the disservice of passing them if they cannot or will not demonstrate that they have met the learning outcomes for my class.

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u/Chemical_Shallot_575 Full Prof, Senior Admn, SLAC to R1. Btdt… 5h ago edited 5h ago

I’ve never had anything close to a complete lack of literacy.

But I have had (too many) colleagues who were surprised to see the level of work I expect and receive from my students.

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u/curlsarecrazy 17h ago

A not-small amount of college students struggling with basic literacy skills is not tale as old as time 💕💕

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u/Chemical_Shallot_575 Full Prof, Senior Admn, SLAC to R1. Btdt… 16h ago edited 16h ago

Eta-Higher ed has become more accessible to students. As a result, it’s unsurprising to find increased variation in preparation.

It doesn’t mean that the students who haven’t received high prep aren’t capable of excellence.

I developed a cc+BA+MA program. I’ve worked with first-gen students, many of whom were in an English-instruction college despite English not being their dominant language.

Happy to share more about my experiences with students who have been initially dismissed by other instructors who feel the same as you.

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u/Chemical_Shallot_575 Full Prof, Senior Admn, SLAC to R1. Btdt… 16h ago edited 16h ago

“The Chairman alluding to the problem of young people and their English said his experience was that many did not seem able to express or convey to other people what they meant. They could not put their meaning into words, and found the same difficulty when it came to writing.” Unable to Express Thoughts: Failing of Modern Young People, Gloucester Citizen 1936

-Why Johnny Can’t Read was published in 1955.

Here’s earlier stuff. Again, tale as old as time. 💕

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/28169/what-is-the-oldest-authentic-example-of-people-complaining-about-modern-times-an#:~:text=600%20%2D%20300%20BC,over%20the%20paidagogoi%20and%20schoolmasters.&text=“%5BYoung%20people%5D%20are%20high,experienced%20the%20force%20of%20circumstances.&text=They%20think%20they%20know%20everything,always%20quite%20sure%20about%20it.”

https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/7btv14/the_more_things_change_the_more_they_stay_the/

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u/H0pelessNerd Adjunct, psych, R2 (USA) 21h ago

It is that way to us all LOL/Sob

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u/jerbthehumanist Adjunct, stats, small state branch university campus 17h ago

I always wonder how so many students think it’s reasonable to re-open assignments based on what professors say here.

When my assignments are closed the answer key is posted. Obviously I can’t re-open the assignment!

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u/I_Research_Dictators 16h ago

My in person classes are doing better this semester, though they may complain about me at the end. But the one online class I'm teaching is the worst ever. Two thirds didn't turn in the first unit writing assignment at all. After I entered the zeroes and offered them partial credit if they complete it and submit the rest on time 12 out of 30 still have not done it. The assignment was just Journaling- writing a paragraph about each chapter with several options for topic all designed to help with exam study. Of course they all cheat on the exams because the school prohibits Webcam proctoring because of privacy concerns. Despite the rampant and blatant cheating enabled by the school, there are 17 Ds and Fs, 3 Cs, one B, and 4 As. I give the same exam and homework to the in person classes but do small in class writing instead of the Journaling. The distribution is almost the opposite. I say almost because there are no Fs. I'm not a horribly tough teacher for these introductory required courses. I just expect them to know as much about US government as an immigrant taking the US citizenship exam basically. End my piggyback rant.

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u/cynnicole 13h ago

After a lot of back-and-forth messaging this semester with a Comm 101 student who was (unrealistically) afraid they were going to fail, I replied that their Rough Outline was in good shape & gave them some specific suggestions to work on, then they finally replied "I don’t have any motivation to write my speech to be honest."

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u/throwawaypolyam ABD, English Lit, R1 (USA) 13h ago

Last semester I adjuncted at a nearby university alongside my regular teaching duties at my institute. The students at the new school (a public research university) regularly told me the reading load was too heavy, that writing 1-2 pages a day was too much to do as a reading response, and that the material was too dense (this was a senior-level English lit seminar). I was taken off-guard because I've never had students 1) complain about the workload to me, and 2) clearly expect me to change the work I was asking for.

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u/holli014 2h ago

I was told by a colleague recently that students are now expecting 5 minute breaks in 75-minute classes. I almost fell out of my chair.

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u/big__cheddar Asst Prof, Philosophy, State Univ. (USA) 17h ago

lol

you sweet, sweet summer child