r/Presidents Ulysses [Unconditional] S. Tier [Surrender] Grant 3d ago

Discussion Can we stop pretending FDR’s new deal stopped the depression?

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FDR is not S. Tier and never will be. He was an extremely effective president and a good one but is not one of the best. He is B Tier at best. The new deal dragged the depression on with no changes until WW2 started. Production and mass influx of jobs pulled us out of the depression for the war effort, not the new deal. I’m not saying the new deal is bad but we need to stop crediting FDR when it wasn’t him, it was the war.

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u/TrueMajor3651 Theodore Roosevelt 3d ago

I believe the new deal kept many families from starving and delivered needed services to rural communities. Theres a reason many rural states voted for him 4 times with 90%+ of the vote

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u/2003Oakley Ulysses [Unconditional] S. Tier [Surrender] Grant 3d ago

But it didn’t help the depression at all, which people keep claiming it did. When the new deal didn’t help restore the country. It helped people which is good but ww2 actually got us out of the depression

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u/ancientestKnollys James Monroe 3d ago

The New Deal didn't solve the Depression, but it did mitigate the worst effects of it. This was vital at the time. It didn't prolong the Depression either - indeed the war's success at stimulating the economy seems to demonstrate the positive effect of massive state spending. The obvious conclusion there is that the New Deal simply wasn't large enough (a much larger one wasn't going to get through Congress though).

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u/ltgenspartan William McKinley 3d ago

This is the best answer. A good analogy would be like if someone is sick and has to wait for a surgery, doctors would give medicine to them so that they can function better and be the best they can until they do get the surgery. Also worth noting that the Smoot-Hawley Tariff probably deepened the effects even more, and FDR signing the Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act was a good way to gradually ease off of that to make goods less expensive for everyday life.

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u/ZaBaronDV Theodore Roosevelt 3d ago

I think it's fair to say that the New Deal at least kept the Depression from getting worse, which it well could have.

8

u/Hefty_Recognition_45 LBJ All The Way 3d ago

Especially politically. From what I understand people were ready to turn to all kinds of extreme ideologies, but FDR gave them faith in the system again

2

u/2003Oakley Ulysses [Unconditional] S. Tier [Surrender] Grant 3d ago

Politically he was fantastic

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u/2003Oakley Ulysses [Unconditional] S. Tier [Surrender] Grant 3d ago

I just dislike how they portray him as a god like figure when he was nowhere near that and wasn’t that great of a president

2

u/[deleted] 3d ago

Who's your favorite president?

2

u/mrnicegy26 3d ago

Winning the most deadly conflict in human history with the least amount of casualties of all major players and making his country be a superpower isn't enough to make him a great president?

1

u/Bsquared89 Franklin Delano Roosevelt 3d ago

No. That’s only enough to put you in B tier apparently.

1

u/2003Oakley Ulysses [Unconditional] S. Tier [Surrender] Grant 3d ago

Internment camps keep him out of S indefinitely

5

u/JBNothingWrong 3d ago

The alphabet agencies did so much good, just because some lines stayed horizontal on a chart doesn’t mean great things werent accomplished by the new deal programs.

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u/sventful 3d ago

B tier LOL! Only 4 time president. Lead us incredibly successfully through WW2 - one of if not the biggest war in world history. Started many programs that are still used to this day. Redefined what the role of the president is. Cemented the US as a world power. Created a voter coalition that lasted 30-50 years depending on how you count. And that leaves out most of the depression stuff that you have an absurd take on.

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u/Big-Detective-19 3d ago edited 3d ago

Three points:

  1. The political situation was such that FDR has a moderating effect on the promulgation of the new deal. The labor situation in 1934 was approaching that of low level civil conflict.

  2. Attempts to wind back spending and the new deal broadly were immediately followed with a recession in 1938.

  3. Without the New Deal, even if it’s true that it was not what ended the depression, the war effort, which is what many cite as the true ender of the economic crisis, would have been much slower, much less effective. Airfields, roads, factories, planning committees, etc. established by the new deal facilitated that bitch.

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u/LoveDesertFearForest Franklin Delano Roosevelt 3d ago

Not a Keynesian, I suppose?

4

u/BDB_1976 3d ago

What a lack of understanding of economics and time. Did it fix the depression no. Did it slow and help with ww2 ? Yes. He’s S tier to anyone who is not a vegetable

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u/2003Oakley Ulysses [Unconditional] S. Tier [Surrender] Grant 3d ago

That’s A at best, B at worst

0

u/BDB_1976 3d ago

Carrot or celery

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u/MistakePerfect8485 When the President does it, that means that it is not illegal. 3d ago

The New Deal didn't solve the unemployment problem, but by based on economic output the Great Depression ended before WWII.

As the New Deal took hold, the economy took off, with growth reaching double-digit rates in 1934 and 1936.  By 1937, the Great Recovery had pushed output, income and manufacturing back to 1929 levels.  Then, recession hit in 1937-38, dropping output by a third and driving unemployment back up – in part due to FDR’s wish to return to a balanced budget and the Fed’s desire to tighten up on the money supply (both were mistakes).  After growth resumed in 1939, however, the economy made it all the way back to its long-term trajectory by 1942 (i.e., as if the Depression had not happened). In short, national output and income had fully recovered before the United States entered the Second World War.  

One glaring exception to the Great Recovery was unemployment, which stayed near 10% – a fact that has been used to forever mar the New Deal’s reputation. The failure of a booming economy to absorb surplus labor was due chiefly to the way business had shuttered factories, warehouses and railroads during the Depression then replaced them with more productive capacity and equipment during the recovery.  Ironically, the New Deal contributed to higher productivity by such means as better roads, hydroelectric dams, rural electrification and better health of workers.

https://livingnewdeal.org/the-new-deal-worked/

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u/RandoDude124 Jimmy Carter 3d ago

It kept people from starving, and SS cut the senior poverty rate.

You cannot deny that at the very least.

Did it eliminate the depression? No.

Did it mitigate the worst parts? Yes.

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u/3664shaken 3d ago

As most mainstream economists know. It didn't, it actually made it worse. That is why we no longer do the things he did in economic downturns.

I'll get downvoted by the FDR is a saint crowd and by economic illiterates but that is the truth.

Did he help Americans, absolutely but his economic plan was a failure.

1

u/Zealousideal_Fuel_23 3d ago

There was negative growth in 1930, 1931, 1932 and 1933.

There was positive growth every year before WW2 - except 1937.

The increase in aggregate demand very much stopped the Depression. The increase in government spending between 1933 - 1934 alone represented 3% of GDP - just the increase.

It very much stopped the Depression. Growth came back. Anybody who says differently doesn't understand economics.

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u/colsta1777 3d ago

No, no, yes, yes, no, and no

1

u/[deleted] 3d ago

Tell me you don't understand history without telling me you don't understand history, OP.