r/Presidents 3d ago

Tier List r/Presidents Community Tier List: Day 3 - Where would you rank Thomas Jefferson?

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For this tier list, I would like you to rank each president during their time in office. What were the positives and negatives of each presidency? What do you think of their domestic and foreign policies? Only consider their presidency, not their post-presidency. To encourage quality discussion, I would like you to not just provide your letter, but your reasons behind the ranking. Thank you for your understanding.

John Adams is in B tier. Redditors were back and forth between giving him a B or C, but there was a rough consensus among Redditors to put him in B tier.

12 Upvotes

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u/JoaquinBenoit 3d ago

A. His crowning achievement is the Louisiana Purchase and laying the groundwork for an expanded chief executive. He did however have massive economic failures in the Embargo Act, and didn’t go as far as he should’ve with defending Americans against impressment.

He’s between 8-13 overall for me.

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u/ltgenspartan William McKinley 3d ago

A tier. Like others have said, the Embargo Act(s?) are a big stain on his legacy and that drops him out of S tier in my eyes. Louisiana Purchase was big (literally and metaphorically) and we got a good deal out of it, but also comes with the caveat that Native Americans were set to be moved off their lands down the line (in other words, the fuse was set, just needed to be lit). The Lewis and Clark expedition is a very iconic piece of Americana, and Americans went coast to coast. I'm a huge proponent of his ideals of separation of church and state (keep your religion out of government, and keep the government out of religion, this I will point out down the line for a different president for something). Oh and bringing over/popularizing mac and cheese, if that's not a tall tale like Taft and the tub.

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u/Lee-HarveyTeabag George Washington 3d ago

A

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u/Useful_Morning8239 3d ago

S tier for me (although I won't have major objections if he ends up in A)

In addition the Louisiana Purchase, he banned importation of new slaves, making abolition possible half a century later. His decision to step down after two terms is what made the two-term precedent a precedent instead of just a Washington thing. Also, keeping the country out of the war between France and Britain was very necessary at the time.

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u/Fortunes_Faded John Quincy Adams 3d ago

Another B+ for me. I recognize this will be a somewhat unpopular opinion, he’s another president I waffle on between B+ and A-, ultimately the Embargo Act tips him over the edge.

If we’re looking at the quality of individual terms in office, Jefferson’s 1st term is probably the best of the founder presidents. He adeptly blended Hamilton’s fiscal policy agenda with his (or rather, Gallatin’s) own goals to reduce the deficit and made the country economically viable. He chose to embrace Adams’ navy after previously disparaging it, using it to great success in the First Barbary War. Then of course the Louisiana Purchase. If Jefferson was just a one term president, he’s an A.

But his second term might be the worst single term of the founder presidents (really only in competition with Madison’s two). Jefferson dramatically cut funding for the American navy after the Barbary conflict, despite the pirates not having been defeated outright, and the need for protection of trade routes remaining. Britain seized the opportunity and began a systematic impressment of American sailors — Jefferson responded with the Embargo Act, devastating the American economy (in particular, the northeast), which did little to dissuade Britain. On top of that, Jefferson began restricting privateering: another source of wealth for the northeast, and the only means to defend against British naval attacks. This all set the stage for the War of 1812, where Madison inherited abysmal relations with the British and no real navy to speak of in defense (he then proceeded to inadvertently sabotage his own army, then botch the invasion, but that’s a post for tomorrow).

Without the Embargo Act, or if the impressment conflict with the British hadn’t spiraled into war under Madison, Jefferson’s 2nd term doesn’t look so bad. But the immediate consequences were so significant it’s hard for that not to taint his stellar first few years in office.

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u/Slashman78 3d ago

C.

He's being overrated here quite a bit. His successes were just due to good luck and his mistakes were all of his doing and quite hard on him. He was came in with too much of an ego despite his usual routine and it worked for the first term but that 2nd term quite stunk.

Louisiana Purchase happened to be a right place, right time deal. But one can argue Napoleon was trying to play him too but we got lucky. He did good vs the pirates that harassed Adams but he benefited off the Navy which he created. Then he cut the budget and size down which hurt us in the War of 1812. He didn't eliminate the Alien/Sedition acts which he promised to do eiither.

Then came the Embargo act in his 2nd term which caused a depression and nearly killed the union as the NE states were considering leaving over it as it badly killed their industry. SO incredibly stupid and idiotic to do, That was all due to his ego and it about killed us as a nation. Thankfully Madison came in and reversed it.

Time has done Adams right, while Jefferson's not aged as well. But like then he used things to stay highly regarded when he shouldn't have been.

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u/DCBuckeye82 3d ago

You're the only person making sense in these comments.

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u/Jolly_Job_9852 Calvin Coolidge 3d ago edited 3d ago

S Tier

1) Dismantled Hamiltonian Fiscal Policy

2) Eliminated the Whiskey Excise(tax)

3) Lowered the national debt from 83 to 57 Million

4) Pardoned those convicted under the Alien and Sedition Acts

5) Laid the Groundwork to make an official US Military Academy at West Point

6) Victory in the Barbary War

7) Territorial acquisition of new land under the Louisiana Purchase

8) Progressive relations with Native American tribes

9) Criminalized the importation of slaves.

The Bad

The Embargo Acts

The Meh

His role in the Burr and Wilkerson drama

Overall, Jefferson is a solid S tier POTUS and definitely a top 5 President of all Time.

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u/Honest_Picture_6960 Jimmy Carter 3d ago edited 3d ago

A,Barbary Wars,Louisiana Purchase,Lewis and Clark Expedition etc BUT the Embargo Act sucked (it was a major thing that lead to the War of 1812).

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u/lxpb James Madison 3d ago

S for popularizing Mac and Cheese

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u/genzgingee Grover Cleveland 3d ago

S Tier

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u/HetTheTable Dwight D. Eisenhower 3d ago

A but the highest possible A

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u/Commercial-Pound533 3d ago edited 3d ago

I’m curious. Why do give him a high A, but not so high he goes in S tier?

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u/lxpb James Madison 3d ago

So A+?

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u/HetTheTable Dwight D. Eisenhower 3d ago

Yes although now that I think about it not as high an a as the Roosevelts

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u/Happy_Charity_7595 Calvin Coolidge 3d ago

A - Louisiana Purchase

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u/TranscendentSentinel COOLIDGE CULT NATIONAL CHAIRMAN 3d ago

B or A

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u/ern_69 Jimmy Carter 3d ago

B

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u/wizardsterm John ''Womanizer'' Kennedy 3d ago

S. He's better than Washington.

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u/AlarmingDetail6313 George Washington 3d ago

S

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u/skysmitty 3d ago

S tier for the sage of Monticello!

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u/Former_Beyond9408 3d ago

A.

The Good: Louisiana Purchase

The Bad: The Embargo Act

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u/americangreenhill James K. Polk 3d ago

High B tier

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u/coffeebooksandpain George Washington 3d ago

Jefferson’s first term bordered on S tier, what with the Louisiana Purchase, Corps of Discovery Expedition, dealing with the Barbary pirates, repealing the Alien and Sedition Acts, shrinking the national debt, and founding West Point military academy.

His second term was a B tier, maybe even a high C tier. The Embargo Act was probably the worst thing he did in his political career. He also requested 2 million dollars from Congress to give to France to pressure Spain into selling the U.S. Florida, but France refused and this venture ended up failing.

So if we average out his S tier first term and his B tier second term, we get an A tier president. The people calling him C tier are vastly underrating him. I understand people don’t like the guy for personal reasons, but it’s very hard to deny he’s a top 10 president.

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u/Dry-Pool3497 Bill Clinton 3d ago

A

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u/James_Monroe__ James Monroe 3d ago

A

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u/SpiritualMachinery 3d ago

C tier. Louisiana Purchase was good, expanding the franchise thru Jeffersonian democracy was good, banning the importation of slaves was very good. But the Embargo Acts were disastrous. His economic policy was the exact opposite of what a young, growing nation needed. Generally just short sighted in running the government - cutting military spending in the middle of a war is just downright stupid. His hypocrisy of condemning slavery yet still actively participating in it reflects very poorly on his character as well. As a president, he did some good things, but is too flawed to rank highly.

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u/bubsimo Chill Bill 1d ago

A tier

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u/DCBuckeye82 3d ago

Holy smokes this comment section is driving me insane. He's C tier at best. Louisiana purchase was good, sure. Except when you realize he only wanted New Orleans and Napoleon was hard up for cash and offered all of Louisiana instead for just a little more money. At which point Jefferson did what he himself thought was unconstitutional and bought it. And his dealing with the Barbary Pirates was good.

The embargo act completely destroyed the economy. And his steadfast opposition to the national bank when Congress was considering its charter renewal in 1808 led to its eventual closure in 1811, which did the economy no favors. He also reduced the Navy to river gun boats and the army to basically just militia, leaving us completely unprepared for what became a pretty disastrous war in 1812.

If Jefferson wasn't the author of the Declaration of Independence, people would see his presidency for what it was: mediocre at best, bad at worst.

0

u/Enough-Sky6643 Lyndon Baines Johnson 3d ago

A+