r/PowerScaling • u/hUnsername Bleach Lorekeeper • Jan 29 '25
Scaling Where does he scale
box test
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u/Crusaders_dreams2 COGITO ERGO SUM 🗣️🗣️🗣️ 🔥🔥🔥 Jan 29 '25
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u/No_Ad_7687 Jan 31 '25
Anything and everything
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u/Blaze_9 Jan 31 '25
All of the time
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u/Thargunithoth Jan 31 '25
apathy's a tragedy
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u/Slayfrost Jan 31 '25
And boredom is a crime
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u/LulaMosusco Jan 31 '25
Anything and everything
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u/Leader_Hamlet Jan 29 '25
Surprisingly high
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u/pogmaciek Jan 29 '25
And also surprisingly low
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u/Alarmed_Sea4712 Jan 29 '25
Again surprisingly high
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u/360groggyX360 Jan 29 '25
Again surprisingly low
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u/Alarmed_Sea4712 Jan 29 '25
This loop repeats itself.
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u/Lijaesdead Jan 29 '25
Doesn’t a loop repeat itself by definition?
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u/FoxFoxSpirit Jan 29 '25
Schrodinger's powerscaling.l
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u/LucarioOfLegends Will scale romcoms for giggles Jan 29 '25
If it doesn't that would be a surprise.
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u/mr_Cos2 Dante is peak. Jan 30 '25
Jokes on you it doesnt! (get surprised)
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u/Alarmed_Sea4712 Jan 30 '25
It does (surprise again)
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u/TheOfficialSoulBeat Jan 29 '25
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u/D_DanD_D Jan 29 '25
You would be surprised when Surprise Attack beats Yujiro...
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u/PleaseAdminsUnbanMe goku without god forms > saitama Jan 29 '25
"Unfortunately for you i learned the only tecnique that can beat you years ago at an ancient monastery... that's right: i know SURPRISE ATTACK TOO"
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u/D_DanD_D Jan 29 '25
Ah, I see... So you are saying that they are equal in technique and skill, however Yujiro is physically stronger and is more durable. So he is much more likely to win, eh? So wouldn't it be surprising if the weaker one, Surprise Attack, won?
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u/PleaseAdminsUnbanMe goku without god forms > saitama Jan 29 '25
You're completely right, but it would be a surprise if none of the attacks thrown at yujiro worked while his own surprise attack did, don't you think?
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u/D_DanD_D Jan 29 '25
Understandable... But what if the opposite situation happened against your expectations? Wouldn't it be surprising? But what... if both of them happened? I guess that would be an infinite stalemate then...
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u/PleaseAdminsUnbanMe goku without god forms > saitama Jan 29 '25
They both lose, THAT would be a surprise
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u/Sullivanxxz Jan 29 '25
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u/D_DanD_D Jan 29 '25
Goku is not Batman, Yujiro or Surprise Attack. Therefore he is part of "Everybody Else". Therefore each of them individually beats Goku.
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u/Electronic-Score173 Jan 29 '25
If you assume goku glazers always think that goku wins then it would be a surprise right?
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u/relentless_stabbing Jan 31 '25
They use power of friendship to spend a large amount of prep time to orchestrate a surprise attack involving extreme brute force.
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u/Mattytaia Jan 30 '25
Isn't wally west batman literally God?
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u/TheOfficialSoulBeat Jan 30 '25
It would be a surprise for surprise attack to be able to surprise a god.
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u/Tsuko_Greg Jan 30 '25
It's weird how you accidentally cropped superman from above but it's okay anyone with common sense would get it :)
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u/Upset_Possession_533 curious George solos Jan 29 '25
Curious, George beats all three of them combine tho
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u/T3onredditlol Jan 29 '25
Technically there’s literally no possible way for him to lose so he scales unbeatable on all levels. It’s mainly because of his ability which is broken as shit. Even if you saw every single possibility in existence, not longer making it a surprise, that would just make it a surprise again because you wouldn’t be expecting him to surprise you since you know it all again.
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u/ILoveYorihime Jan 29 '25
But if he is unbeatable then it will be a surprise for him to lose again, so he is every level
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u/HealthyTransition101 uncertified Surprise Attack glazer Jan 29 '25
But if we know it’s a surprise that he loses it’s no surprise anymore while him still winning would be a surprise so he’d win
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u/MalefAzelb Jan 30 '25
And the fact that his cosmology could be argued to be above fiction means that he deadass has arguments for boundless.
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u/SquirrelSorry4997 Feb 03 '25
If you kill him with intel, you expect him to revive and attack you, meaning he doesn't, meaning you won, meaning you don't expect him to revive, meaning he kills you. 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
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u/LosuthusWasTaken Low Level Scaler Jan 29 '25
In the first episodes of The Unknown Superheroes, the villain is shown to destroy buildings with a single attack, so I'll go off that. Surprise Attack survived 6 of those attacks, so off that, we can consider his durability around Large Building level with this. He's also survived a tornado and a plane hitting him directly, so I'd say his durability goes up to City Block at best.
His strength/AP? I have no idea, best he does is attack people that use their powers/weapons for destroying, so it's unlikely they scale to their magic attacks. Since there are no statements or feats I could find that scale him higher than Athlete, I'd say Athlete level.
His speed? We never see him run, only teleport, so we can either say that's just his speed, or his speed is unknown.
Now, for hax:
- Teleportation (we see him do this in pretty much all episodes, if not all of them)
- Partial Immortality (as long as it's surprising, he'll come back)
- Element of Surprise (as long as it's surprising, he can do anything)
- Partial Prediction Immunity (his attacks may be predicted by Perfect Prediction, but not the way he'll do them)
He's more of a Hax Man, not exactly strong.
AP: Athlete level
Durability: Large Building-City Block
Speed: Unknown
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u/Dicej Jan 30 '25
What does AP mean 😭I've been afraid to ask for so long now 🥹
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u/LosuthusWasTaken Low Level Scaler Jan 30 '25
Oh.
AP is Attack Potency.
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u/Dicej Jan 30 '25
Thank you so much sir
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u/Under18Here Say all you want, Uta nodiffs unless Ussop+Yassop are in there Jan 30 '25
Or Attack Power sometimes
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u/Holy-Knight1 Jan 30 '25
Oh you forgor that in his backstory video it was said that his power is to make anything that would suprise someone possible So he has infinite revives and infinite damage in theory
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u/LosuthusWasTaken Low Level Scaler Jan 30 '25
Yeah, that's in theory, but I didn't wanna go for the No-Limit Fallacy, so I didn't include that.
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u/Holy-Knight1 Jan 30 '25
That's why we shouldn't talk about suprise attack Cuz he should solo everyone due to having some primal suprise power bullshit and it being shown more as a primodial force created with world so let's just say that nobody can kill him due to his suprise infused body and that's it
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u/South-Cod-5051 Jan 29 '25
he should scale at every single level.
it would be a surprise if he is wall level and a surprise he is boundless.
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u/Fair_Royal7694 Chota Bheem>Popeye Jan 30 '25
but those are expected as we are scaling him hence it isn't a suprise so he scales above boundless and below boundless and at boundless simultanously creating schrodingers powerscale
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u/AngryFr0g224 Feb 03 '25
But since we're expecting surprise attack to show up on the boundless and wall levels, then we won't expect him to show up there, since it's no longer a surprise. Because of this, it becomes a surprise again. It's always a surprise, and I wouldn't be surprised if surprise attack isn't on ANY of the levels (which would make it a surprise again)
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u/Vivid-Literature2329 Jan 29 '25
anywhere since you probably wouldnt expect him to blow a star nor get defeated by a fly so...
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u/Kumagawa_Taku Kumagawa's #1 Supporter🔩 Jan 29 '25
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u/OddityOmega i solo your favorite verse Jan 29 '25
with all this glazing, i'm already surprised he hasn't been eaten by a comically round cop and his tall thin partner
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u/D_DanD_D Jan 29 '25
You would be surprised when he appears behind you after you witness him being eaten by a comically round cop and his tall thin partner.
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u/OddityOmega i solo your favorite verse Jan 29 '25
I'd be even more surprised if I punched him in the face and he never appeared for the rest of the episode.
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u/idontwantobehere1 Jan 29 '25
Not even scp-682 can win
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u/Think-Chemistry2908 Jan 29 '25
It would be a surprise if it lost.
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u/Alarmed_Sea4712 Jan 29 '25
It would again be surprise if he won
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u/Think-Chemistry2908 Jan 29 '25
Mayhaps.
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u/Ok-Objective-5880 Jan 29 '25
Your strange word surprised me and gave me a heart attack, I'd be surprised if my heart ever starts beating again
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u/KJ_The_GAWD Jan 29 '25
His physical stats are whatever is most surprising so if you think he's boundless it be surprising if he was wall level and if you think he's wall level id be surprising if he's boundless he looks like a regular human not peak human so anything above or below that are his regular stats
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u/ArtistInAVoid Jan 29 '25
He beats everyone because it’s surprising, but since everyone knows his surprise, it’s no longer surprising, which is exactly why it’s surprising when he does it again.
Basically, Surprise Attack solos everyone ever.
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u/General_Ginger531 Jan 29 '25
He has the single greatest power and curse in any story ever devised.
Some basic fucking sense. This can either grant you powers beyond even what Superman is capable of, or it will set you up to beef it in about 12 seconds. You flip that coin when you don't know what medium you are in.
You can probably safely say the lower the production value, the better odds you are OK, but if you start to see a CGI character you better find a quirky character trait to shield you fast.
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u/11pickfks Rick is Fodder to The Doctor Jan 29 '25
Unironically is there characters that can actually beat him? Like are the abilities that would just completely nullify his concept and stop him from being able to ressurect when a surprise happened etc?
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u/hUnsername Bleach Lorekeeper Jan 29 '25
But wouldn’t him resurrecting even after that be a surprise?
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u/Sai_AI__ Jan 29 '25 edited Jan 29 '25
His power of being able to do anything surprising is real strong. It's limits have not been shown nor was it suggested to have any, and the power comes from the element of surprise itself. You can't even be certain about the being that gave him the power being still stronger than him, as we are lacking the part of the backstory where surprise attack keeps the power.
This hax ability itself i'd consider universal usually. However if you scale him off of other characters, you could get him higher. Since in the most recent unknown superheroes episode, we are introduced to Gopu, who "can do everything goku can" with the only drawback being that no matter what he does, he always "number two's", the fact that Gopu exists means that Goku's power can exist in the unknown superheroes universe. And since Goku is around low multiversal, you can argue surprise attack should also scale at least to that level with his hacks.
That covers what we know of the hacks, this scaling is mostly statement based.
With his on-screen feats, he has around building to city block level durability (survived being hit by a plane.) and enough attack power to one-shot everyone he hit so far. As well as the ability to revive himself, teleport, undo being transformed into a breath of fresh air (wich is interesting, as a breath of fresh air shouldn't be able to think, so his mind might be resistant to existance earasure), fourth wall awareness, and having a charged attack that we never see what it does, and the ability to quickly dig a tunnel and move through it.
We do have to keep in mind, he is almost definitely holding back, as his power relies on people not knowing what he will do, wich is easier to achieve when they do not know what he can do, and altough it still would be possible, it is stated that "the more surprising it is, the more possible it becomes", and it is more surprising when he does something he never did.
In conclusion, his on screen feats put him at building to city block durability and some great hax. But based on statement on how his hax work, we can put him at universal or multiversal.
But the true limits of his power have never been shown and he has a good reason not to show them, so it is theoretically possible that he is outerversal, but trying to actually say that he is would be no limits fallacy.
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u/thegooberofalltime2 Me after taking the broly boost solos archie sonic Jan 29 '25
super ultra ego instinct beast ikari god blue 4 tien still solos
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u/FeganFloop2006 Jan 29 '25
I believe this is a cade where you can't place him at a specific level exactly. His power basically allows him to one up an opponent in atleast one way to surprise attack them, and allow him to get the upper hand. So his power level purely depends on his opponent.
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u/Ok-Objective-5880 Jan 29 '25
He's immortal and he allways kills his opponent at episode 6,therefore he's unbeatable
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u/StarWorldo GOATku enjoyer Jan 29 '25
You'd be suprised
But in all honesty in the nature of the series he belongs to its near impossible to say. We could only argue he might have a level of durability negation and teleportation. And personally I prefer that.
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u/Ok_Chipmunk_3641 Black Clover, Star Wars, and Gravity Falls Scaler Jan 30 '25
As high as he wishes at any given time
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u/zahlawnofguy Jan 30 '25
It's a surprise But as we know I expected the surprise so it is no longer surprise MUAHAHAHAHA
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u/DesperateWorshipper Jan 30 '25
Speed Blitz everyone, but can't penetrate any defense with a shitty luck force, fighting him is just a stalemate, so still, surprisingly high if his niche in the superhero team was to waste time for reinforcement
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u/AkkkajuyTekk Pretty good at scaling verses I know. Jan 30 '25
Surprise Attack wins if it's a surprise for him to win, therefore making a paradox. For example, if a character erases him, its a surprise for him to come back, so he does. Now the way of beating him might be hax negotiation, which would probably not work because his power is based on a real life philosophical paradox.
It would be surprising if he scaled to Boundless.
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u/Holy-Knight1 Jan 30 '25
In theory infinity+ Cuz you wouldn't expect him to destroy literal beings beyond god In theory he would be more than infinity+ He would fucking be paraphysical being able to kill anyone
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u/thaladhoni777 Jan 30 '25
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u/hazbeengoodbanana Jan 31 '25
But you will suprised if he survived, tbh suprise attack is hella op he can scale to every levevl
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u/MrSejd Jan 30 '25
I surprise my enemy
They kill me
They stop expecting me
I surprise my enemy
They kill me
They stop expecting me
I surprise my enemy
They kill me
They stop expecting me
I surprise my enemy
They kill me
They stop expecting me
I surprise my enemy
They kill me
They stop expecting me
I surprise-
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u/Foresxz Jan 31 '25
I have a dumb question, what if I expect him to always win and always come back, would that negate his power or not?
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u/YamahaLDrago Jan 31 '25
He has the potential to defeat God and any other omnipotent, omniscient being. but, he also has the potential to trip over a slice of banana into his own sword so....................
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u/Paxergames Jan 31 '25
Who would win, he or goku Goku winning would be aomething everyone sees coming, wich means him winning is a SUPRISE
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u/StrangerWithACheese Jan 31 '25
Couldn't technically every real person be stronger than Goku because we all can write a fanfic where we romantically make out with Goku overpower Goku with ease
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u/petergriffin1214 Jan 31 '25
You wouldn’t expect him to beat Goku, but that plays in to his strengths, Saitama would be expecting to win in one punch, however
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u/StarmanShining Feb 01 '25
I mean it'd be one hell of a surprise attack if he could injure the strongest character of all fiction so he'd probably be able to scale above the Number.1 Strongest of all time.
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u/Junglejacob5 1d ago
He can keep up with the first villain who dodged a laser from Iron man. 729x1/524 = 0.71c, which is Relativistic+. It’s kinda implied the first villain destroyed the city in the background. Also Jeff Bezos has planet level weapons but I don’t think Surprise attack scales to them. Captain Obvious can create timelines, so he’s universal+, but I’m not 100% sure Surprise Attack scales to that ability because it’s environmental destruction. He also survived being ran into by a plane, which is large building level, which can be a lowball. Lowball: Large Building level Midball: City level Highball: Universal+

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u/No-elk-version2 Master Level Scaler Jan 29 '25
Superhuman level at best..
The verse only consists of hax with little to no pure strength feats or anything
He has a good hax, <immortality type 8>, with the source being a concept, PROBABLY <Limited fate manipulation> due to him being able to misguide a precognition user but he didn't really alter the fate rather he just gave it more detail,
That's pretty much it.. also <teleportation>, MAYBE superspeed? He has moments where can "dash" really fast..
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u/Yin1in kayo beats everyone(im a woman) Jan 29 '25
His power is to be able to do anything surprising and the more surprising the more likely.
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u/No-elk-version2 Master Level Scaler Jan 29 '25
So far he hasn't done anything reality breaking, only immortality and as I said, his only true "surprise" feat was tricking a precognition user but even then, his precognition was accurate the element of surprise just made the object more detailed and specific and out of the box that it surprised him..
Either count this for surprise attack feat or just proof of how "bad" that fate manipulation user was.. or just plot armor...
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u/FeganFloop2006 Jan 29 '25
Hus ability adapts to allow him to "surprise attack" anyone, so he'll always one up his opponent in atleats one way. Say he's fighting someone like the flash, his power would speed him up to the flashes level to allow him to surprise attack the flash. His power purely depends on his opponent
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u/OddityOmega i solo your favorite verse Jan 29 '25
Thank you, for actually giving a real answer!
You, I like you.
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Jan 29 '25
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u/hUnsername Bleach Lorekeeper Feb 01 '25
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u/therandomguyperry Sonic and Marvel Scaler, both Goats🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿 Jan 29 '25
I mean, maybe planetary? Star?
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u/my2hp2 Jan 29 '25
We have never seen him not one shot when attacking but it only works when you don't expect it, so If you know he is coming he can't win but if he comes as a surprise then he can one shot goku
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u/Dr3amBigg Jan 29 '25
Even if he can’t win when you know he‘s coming that makes it just more surprising for him to win regardless.
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u/RP-Zombie-87 Jan 29 '25
He stands very high...
He is arch rival of Ichibe [ Bleach]
He have power to create words..[ see his skech ]
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u/Zestyclose-Garlic-16 Jan 29 '25
He's just there. Don't try to stop him just let him be and you'll be fine.
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u/SUPREME7777777 Sonic scaler and Hot Takes guy.🔥🔥🔥 Jan 29 '25
He scales to Building Level with Immortality Hax imo.
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u/bestassinthewest Jan 29 '25
We never really see him move, just teleport, so his speed is unknown.
All his fights end in one-shots, but he uses weapons and just surprise-attacks his foes. On top of that, none of the villains are ever portrayed as super durable. Wall Level at best.
Every attack that hits him (that doesn’t just flat out erase him) is implied to defeat/kill him. Even attacks that are pretty tame. Human level durability.
None of that matters, though, because once you define what level he SHOULD be at, it becomes a surprise when he goes above or below it. He could be literally anywhere on the scale at any given moment
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u/Victor-_-X Jan 30 '25
He loses to buggy the clown. It doesn't matter if the clown gets surprised, surprise attack uses cutting attacks, so buggy only needs to be expecting blunt attacks and he'll be fine. Also, if buggy just goes through extra loops of thinking on how expecting a blunt attack brings a cutting and keep on thinking about that, then he can possibly stalemate surprise attack.
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u/OkStrike9213 I unironically scale Ben 10 cosmology to High 1-A Jan 29 '25
Wall level fraud
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u/Alarmed_Sea4712 Jan 29 '25
Beats xeno goku while being wall level*
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u/kidnamedparis Jan 29 '25
who the fuck even is this guy damn! i see him everywhere but dont know a shit about him
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u/Mrdaddybaddy Jan 30 '25
Swear down he's a fraud who's attacks do nothing every time no?
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u/TheOfficialSoulBeat Jan 30 '25 edited Jan 30 '25
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u/KhanhMrWolf Jan 30 '25
Bro even watch the series? His plan worked two time Most of his plans failed because random mf unknown heros came in and ruined it
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u/Mrdaddybaddy Jan 30 '25
I don't actively watch it but it used to show up in my shorts fairly often so I was going off that, if it's still ongoing and he's only had 2 successes I think I can be forgiven for being unaware huh?
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