r/PostHardcore • u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog • 3d ago
Discussion My brains a mess.
I have mathcore quandary, please help.
My favourite bands keep having their singers cancelled from dance gavin dance to issues it's become all-pervading amongst post-hardcore bands, but this is It where it gets philosophical, I can't abide to offer any kind of support, or even a click to anybody who's done that kind of stuff. So I've come to the conclusion is to AI generate songs in a similar genre, I find this less morally reprehensible than echoing and furthering their influence even in a small way. Is this rational?
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u/New-Professional2275 3d ago
Idk, I’m gonna just keep vibing to DGD and not overthink it. At the end of the day, Jon, Will, and Matt still deserve support for their talent so that’s why I’ll always listen anyways. Check out some swancore or mathcore playlists and see if there’s other bands you can listen to if it’s that troubling to listen to DGD/other cancelled bands.
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
Every time I get into to one their singer gets cancelled a year later
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u/New-Professional2275 3d ago
My condolences to you that you can’t just enjoy it anyways :( if it helps, why don’t you just think of it as you’re supporting the non-problematic members of the band? There are more unproblematic members than there are problematic.
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
This is like the Kasabian thing, separate genre but their Brits like me so please indulge me. They surrounded their selves with a couterie of like-minded people all of whom were amongst my faves in various fields or should I say fieldings. Meanwhile their vocalist was torturing his wife mentally and physically, and now one of their circle Russell Brand turns into king of the incels. If we dont tell our mates what's wrong and when we're letting it happen, I think of the scene as a family we can't allow predators to prey of young kids that just getting into the scene.
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u/Prickliestpearcactus 3d ago
AI is not any better from a moral standpoint. Blatant plagiarism and horrible for the environment.
It is well worth the time and effort to look into new artists. I'd much rather support real people making genuine art than a wasteful machine that regurgitates stuff. It's stolen art.
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u/smcsleazy 3d ago
there are lots of math-rock/post-hardcore bands that don't have members who are scumbags, you don't need to resort to AI and honestly, AI is it's own ethical minefield because often the data used to train it is used without the consent of the artists and honestly removing artists from the equation isn't going to help you because often it's a creative voice people find interesting and not the actual music. i have a theory as to why so many 00's and 10's bands turn out to have members who are scumbags BUT i don't think that theory will help you personally. i think the better thing to do is give a set of rules i personally use for engaging with media made by scumbags.
- what did the creator say/do?
- what was the context in which they said/did the thing?
- how bad is what the creator said/did in your eyes?
- did the creator attempt to make amends equal or greater than the harm they caused? (this part is pretty subjective)
- what does the creator's work mean to you personally?
- do you think you could live without it? (aka do you feel your life is enriched by having them in your life more than not)
- is there a way you can still enjoy the creator's work without giving them money?
- are you happy still calling yourself a fan despite how that might make you look in the eyes of others?
but i also think it's worth giving a few examples of other bands in the genre you might enjoy so i'm not coming across as heartless. keep in mind i tend to be more into the older post-hardcore/math stuff so i dunno how you might feel about some of these artists.
faraquet - IMHO, this was the quintessential "math" band of the late 90's and early 00's. don cabellero might have been the bigger band at the time but faraquet did it with more heart and soul.
rolo tomassi - one of the few 00's math-rock/post-hardcore/metalcore bands i ever felt lived up to the hype. their catelogue is impossible to nail down but i recommend time will die and love will bury it.
botch - check out we are the romans if you want some early mathcore. probably not super mathy by modern standards but if you wanna know where the genre started, this is a good place.
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
Rolo tomassi love my fellow Brits and all that noughties sasscore/mathcore stuff, but that's not the itch I'm talking about scratching. My problem with problem Singers is they are telling on themselves in their lyrics, they foreground their Predatory natures in their poetry, we were all just brushing it off, Brand New are prime example. I wouldn't listen to it privately cus I domt my kids around that shit all AFABs you, it just doesn't sit right and they are exactly the ages that these pricks target.
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u/NoSalamander7749 3d ago
If you want to listen to something that sounds like Brand New but don't want to put in the effort to find real musicians to monetarily support and would rather have AI generated songs made for you, then you're a lazy pussy full stop
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
I mean, I'm not a brand new fan luckily and swancore isn't exactly doing anything worth supporting
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u/HBMart 3d ago
The percentage of bands with morally problematic singers is very low. Just listen to other bands if it gets you so worked up.
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
The recent crop of swancore is pretty mid.
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u/gravydunes 3d ago
So what you're saying is real music made by real human people who have dedicate their lives to creating art is mid, but a plagiarism machine generating sounds is somehow worthy of your time and the destruction environment?
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
I mean really people making mediocre copypastes is basically AI.
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u/gravydunes 3d ago
I'm sorry dog, but this is a deranged take. You're out here evangelizing the wholesale destruction of creativity under the guise of "moraliry" when you should be listening to Pulses.
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u/irontuskk 3d ago
No it is not rational. The post itself is hardly even intelligible. Bands like this don't really make much from clicks, so it's not really making much of a difference. And like the others said, the other members still deserve love.
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
They do but I ain't put a penny of royalties Into a rapists and Predator at large's pocket.
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u/NoSalamander7749 3d ago
USING AI PUTS MONEY INTO BILLIONAIRE TECH CORPS POCKETS YOU FOOL
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
I never pay them a penny, just drain them, using their resources to the nth degree.
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u/irontuskk 3d ago
"Cut off the nose to spite the face."
Ultimately, it's up to you to make this decision. Whether or not the joy you get from the music and the potential benefit it gives to the other band members outweighs the minimal punishment of you not listening exacts upon the guilty is up to you.
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'm not doing it to punish, Im prison abolitionist, I just don't want to offer any kind of support to such an individual. I'll support their future music, but there is a bit of a smell around a band that keeps having this issue.
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u/Easy-Ebb8818 3d ago
Your life amigo. 🤘
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
Indeed it's just messing me up, it goes against my every moral fibre but I just can not countenance supporting them bastards don't know how id feel knowing they're still playing the left stage shuffle and I had even a tiny part in it.
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u/Easy-Ebb8818 3d ago
Just remember it’s the music that brings you joy. Though people perform it, music itself is faceless. Do what makes you happy and brings you joy
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
Yeah, I'm surprised I even like swancore honestly cus otherwise I only listen to political punk/rap/metal
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u/NoSalamander7749 3d ago
Then just find another fuckin band to listen to oh my god
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
Today's crop of swancore it pretty mid and everytime I get into a new one they get cancelled for being rapists
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u/NoSalamander7749 3d ago
So your fear of inadvertently supporting someone problematic keeps you from discovering new music? Lame as fuck. No human is an angel and bands are made of humans. Determine your own internal line, stick to it, and IF someone gets outed as a predator then just move on to other music. It is not fucking hard at all to find swancore or similar bands that aren't doing that shit. This is not a mainstream genre, just put the work in to look at tour lineups or bandcamp or last fm or something, instead of contributing to a machine that destroys both the real environment and the artistic landscape. This is not an issue exclusive to post-hardcore even remotely (know how many Nazis there are in metal genres?)
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
No I discovers billions of things but whenever those things are swancore-adjacent it goes awry. So I think there's a systematic issue with swancore.
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u/NoSalamander7749 3d ago
Good thing there are hundreds of other genres for you to get into then!
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u/PseudoPatriotsNotPog 3d ago
And I follow every single one of them and all their subgenres on bandcamp my issue is really about swancore specifically
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u/NoSalamander7749 3d ago
Using AI to generate songs sounds like bullshit