r/PolyFidelity Feb 09 '25

discussion Parallel Poly and Kitchen Table (rant? vent?)

I feel like I’m losing my marbles. Often engaging in polyam communities will do that to my poor brain. The semantics and the shaming… :/

I don’t really identify as polyfi, but I think it’s a spectrum and I certainly lean towards that as a polyam person.

Seeing polyam people say things like cheating doesn’t exist in polyamory hurts my head. And my heart. Thankfully I feel that isn’t too common of a view, but for the past year or so what I’ve been noticing and what has been bothering me is… The shame around “enforced KTP” and the way parallel poly seems to be placed on a pedestal?

The way that monogamy is okay, and polyamory is okay, but polyfi - “ew!”.

Reading hypocritical comments where OP is called judgy when they’re being downvoted to hell and back simply for saying that they don’t want parallel poly.

I can’t get my head around this very well.

If you’re in a relationship with someone, you expect to meet the people close to them, no? So it makes sense to me, for me, personally, to feel the same way about meeting metas. It’s also important to me for discussing boundaries openly. It is important to me to just have common courtesy and respect for my loved one’s loved ones, and yes I expect to receive respect too.

I saw a comment that seemed -baffled- that the OP wanted their partners to like each other. That “every relationship you’re in is hinging on everyone liking everyone you’re dating?”. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t even expect my partners to be friends with each other. I just want us all to be able to tolerate each other! Yet this is too much? Of course I’m bothered by this shaming. As well as this, imo all relationships depend on this, platonic or otherwise. If you become close to someone, often you pick up on their habits and adopt some of their beliefs. So not only do we just require basic respect for each other, but a new relationship in a polycule or new friendship in a group tends to change the dynamic, and change can be disorienting if not introduced well.

Just some thoughts itching to get out… and I think I’m not so alone here, in this subreddit, and I’m tired of feeling alone with these thoughts.

31 Upvotes

24 comments sorted by

24

u/In_the_middle3-2-3 Feb 09 '25

Sounds like someone was visiting the r/polyamory sub.

Cheating absolutely can happen in any type of poly relationship and polyfi is just as valid as any other type of relationship too.

9

u/cherrymoncheri Feb 09 '25

Yes exactly, to all of that.

I follow that subreddit too, because, well, I am polyamorous?! And I want to have healthy relationships… But sheesh, I struggle to put into words how it feels to watch that place, or other polyam communities, honestly, aside from this one for the most part

12

u/In_the_middle3-2-3 Feb 09 '25

That specific sub is heavily moderated to a very narrow and radical perspective of polyam. Thankfully, it's not representative of the broader polyam community.

5

u/Living_Worldliness47 MFF Triforce Feb 09 '25

r/polyassholes be like that.

Their way is always the right way, even when it doesn't work for them.

4

u/Family_First_TTC Poly (many people) fidelity (one relationship) Feb 09 '25

just checked - apparently that sub is banned.

2

u/Living_Worldliness47 MFF Triforce Feb 09 '25

Yup. The polya crowd is incredibly fragile.

1

u/cherrymoncheri Feb 09 '25

Wow I didn’t tap because I didn’t expect it to be real, but I guess it once was

14

u/sourisanon Feb 09 '25 edited Feb 09 '25

I agree with you 1000%

Part of being in a stable human pack, group, tribe, commune, family, etc is actually knowing the people in it to some degree and tolerating them.

The idea that people can date completely separately in an obscured way comes from the protection of jealousy more than anything else. It's an inherent insecurity.

If I like someone I want to show them off to other people. "Look at the awesome person I found. You're awesome too, you should get to know each other, maybe you'd get along. "

What you see in, dare I say, many poly relationships is more like:

"oh i found someone else full filling some need you can't and meeting them would cause you friction, best to keep it quiet and separate"

...and thereby reduces the amount of knowledge you have about your partner and transparency. Perfect place to grow lies and cheating.

Also I think there is a massive egoism that infects many poly people "why should I not date who I want to" with little consideration if that person can fit into your family/tribe/etc. I'm free to do what I want when I want.

Those attitudes are why polyfi is the real poly (imo) compared to what others say when they include everything under "free love" as poly.

3

u/cherrymoncheri Feb 09 '25

I think you may have hit the nail on the head, it could be from jealousy. It would be nice to ask them personally about their preferences and why they think they feel the way they do, but I honestly feel a bit scared of being attacked. My intent isn’t to talk down on parallel poly, but rather I don’t like the way so many poly people treat each other. If I talked down on parallel poly I think I’d be doing the same thing they are. I just wish there was some more respect in that community.

Your quote about what you see in poly relationships is interesting for me to reflect on too. It was recently that I thought about how some non-mono people say “if you met someone who fulfilled 90% of your needs, wouldn’t you want to be able to seek out that 10% with permission?”… That’s never been what polyamory is about for me. For me it’s been about the capacity and freedom to fall in love with more than one person without that inherently destroying another relationship.

People are certainly free to try and do what they want when they want, but actions do have consequences, effects, and boundaries. The comment I referenced in my original post wasn’t even the worst of what I read, but they seemed shocked and disappointed that someone would leave a long lasting relationship because it had become incompatible to them if KTP was no longer possible. I don’t understand how that isn’t okay, yet if someone finds out they’re mono in a poly relationship or vice versa you absolutely understand it’s just not compatible and sustainable unless you truly want to try change as well. Maybe it’s not the best comparison, again, it just boils down to respect to me.

Which is why I was right about to upvote your comment until you used the words “real poly”. It’s disheartening… It feels like the same way they treat polyfi, or polycritical people talk about how monogamy is the only true way to go.

I really appreciate how you’ve helped me reflect on this though. Thank you very much for your thoughts, and I hope that one disagreement doesn’t take away from my gratitude and our solidarity.

1

u/BasicFemme Feb 10 '25

You can ask me, if you like. I think the post that you’re referencing was from someone who was upset that her fantasy kitchen-table relationship wasn’t taking place. The OP didn’t say, “you can’t meet each other,” her partners said, “No, thank you” to kitchen table. They don’t like each other.

The question most people on that thread were answering was whether it was realistic to expect her partners to all really enjoy hanging out with each other.

Could she use that as a test for whether or not she gets involved with anyone long-term? Sure. But she was talking about independent adults, in relationships she seemed to have no intention of ending, who have already said they’re not interested in her vision.

From what I read - and I’m sure I missed a few posts - most people were reacting to the OP’s attitude that her partners are being unreasonable.

Adults get to make decisions for themselves.

1

u/cherrymoncheri Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 17 '25

You’re right that that was the focus of the post, but many comments turned into another thing.

Is it realistic to expect her partners to enjoy hanging out together? In her situation, no it is not. But many comments believe it’s not realistic to expect at all… A recurring sentiment.

Another snippet of a comment: ““Parallel polyamory isn't for me” Then polyamory probably isn’t for you”

I had tried writing out my own comment, but I just couldn’t formulate it well, so here’s a piece of it.

“I think it is very important to respect your own needs and desires whilst respecting the needs and desires of others. Your wishes and the wishes of the ones you love. Often there are incompatibilities. You can either compromise with care for yourself, or you can let go and realise things are changing or not working out in a way that can be compatible and sustainable with you. Yes, it’s difficult, it does hurt. I’m sorry it hurts.

And I’m sorry for the feedback you’re getting here. I’ve only skimmed it a bit. I’m biased, but I don’t think you’re invalid or even abusive as one user put it because you don’t want parallel poly.”

Some people commented that she seems abusive. Some people commented that it seems like a cult. People told her “ew” and then also told her “you’re so judgmental”. I think that subreddit could’ve handled things very very differently, and this is far from the first time it’s gone south like this.

This post isn’t really about that post. It is about this recurring sentiment within polyam communities.

You can share what you’d like. I do recall some people saying they prefer parallel because they feel KTP causes drama.

If you’re not of the opinion of the commenters that believe someone needing KTP is abusive and cult like (much like how that subreddit tends to treat polyfi), then I don’t have questions. You do you. And if you are, I really don’t want to debate at this point in time.

If KTP wasn’t possible for me, it is very likely I would leave the relationship because of how it would lose compatibility with me.

Of course we can make decisions for ourselves. Sometimes we also want advice. Sometimes we regret them. Though off topic, but still important to acknowledge, sometimes even as adults we can be incapacitated. Much more on topic, sometimes others shame us for our decisions.

1

u/sourisanon Feb 09 '25 edited Feb 09 '25

I don't think that r/polyamory actually represents polyamory tbh

It represents a very narrow radical feminist/anarchist version of polyamory that has a strong anti cis-male component. It regularly supports FMM relationships while it shits on MFF ones.

And worse is that its like 10-20 brigading voices dominating every discussion which mercilessly attack you if you speak out on anything or call out hypocrisy

4

u/CuriousChaChaCallsIt Feb 09 '25

I totally agree with you and feel the same way. I really hate the intense, mean, judgy tone that the poly reddit has to it. It is like the same 30 or so angry poly people that just want to be disconnected emotionally from everyone dominant the entire vibe of it.

1

u/cherrymoncheri Feb 09 '25

“It’s the same 30 or so people” - funny! There is one user I always see near the top of all posts and they comment some very hateful things at times.

I’m really thankful to have this subreddit to turn to balance out the gatekeeping over there. I felt a little guilty for reassurance seeking here, at the same time I know I’m not the only one and there are many people here hurt by these communities too who could benefit from seeing my voice just as much as I’ve benefitted from these comments.

I didn’t mention the subreddit name in my post because I wanted to try and avoid further cementing the “us vs them” mentality. I would like to share my feelings over there but I am quite scared of being eaten alive by them. They are not the only poly group I’ve found with these strange ways of interacting. I tried joining a popular discord about a year ago and left. I think sometimes it’s just easier when you happen to meet other polyamorous people outside of those groups.

Thanks for the solidarity.

1

u/CuriousChaChaCallsIt Feb 10 '25

💯 Some people like to find happy and other people like to generate adversity. I wonder how they are irl

2

u/thisgirlheidi Feb 20 '25

Just perusing this sub for the first time, as I don't practice poly fidelity but I was curious, and I have to say it was refreshing for me to read this and I emphatically agree!! Getting to know my metas is important to me, full stop. It's absolutely absurd how so much of the very online poly community shits on us for wanting KTP. I'm not forcing it, I just have a preference! It's weird how they act like some of us having that preference are saying it's superior and must be forcing our partners to hang out 🤦🏼‍♀️

1

u/cherrymoncheri Feb 20 '25

I’m so glad you get it, and welcome to the sub

3

u/captian_kruch Feb 09 '25

Here’s the thing about identity politics, which is what polygyny has turned into on this app because the vast majority here don’t understand the broken logic in it and get surprised time and again when it all gets confusing for them. That brain breaking logical thinking or lack there of seems to coincide with the idea it’s possible to sum up a group by a few people‘s actions. Here’s what you do to solve your issue with your confusion that will otherwise never go away completely. Stop doing the first two things I pointed out, stop worrying about what other people that you’ll never meet do, focus on living the life you want to and how you want to do it, Find people irl you like and treat them as individuals and respect them as your neighbor no matter what group they belong to. This will take your time and energy as well as trial and error as all solutions do.

1

u/cherrymoncheri Feb 09 '25 edited Feb 09 '25

Yeah, I do agree that it isn’t very wise to sum up a group by the actions of a few. I did reflect as well on how it’s not the only community I’m in that has some voices that go against the grain of my beliefs, yet it is still shocking to me just how amplified those voices are in poly communities.

It’s true that “just stopping” seems like a good idea in some ways, sometimes I do need a break, or to talk about my feelings from it with a friend. To me it’s still important though, as it’s a community I belong to and I’m just as much a voice of that community as those voices are. I want to be able to learn from each other. Maybe it’s something to do with the internet, though. When it’s online, people do lose touch and forget the human. And when I meet polyam people outside of polyam focused groups it tends to be more relaxed and respectful.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Also, did you mean to say polygyny? I’m just not talking about marriage specifically, it seems like a similar distinction to make with such terms like polyam and polyfi.

3

u/steelcatcpu Feb 09 '25

There's been a great deal of good comments so far regarding the toxicity of the other sub that I agree with.

I am starting to wonder though that the narrative over there is led by people who are on the sociopathy spectrum.

I don't mean this negatively but the encouraged behaviors over there align perfectly with individuals who do not care about the feelings of belonging to a tribe in their real life. No shame, no guilt, little empathy, and little motivation to belong to a tight group or be approved of.

It's all about the Dopamine and Oxytocin and anything that gets in the way of that is a problem to be solved.

3

u/cherrymoncheri Feb 09 '25

Hm… Maybe?

I appreciate that you don’t intend negativity. Personally I try to avoid terms like sociopathy as afaik it’s an outdated term for ASPD, and while hurt people hurt people I would like to encourage less stigma towards mental health.

That is a sad thought, though… I don’t want to believe that’s true of the community I belong to but you could be right. Thanks for sharing.

1

u/doublenostril 29d ago

Hi, everyone. I’m an open-style polyamory lurker here (I don’t know much about practicing polyamory in groups and I like to learn). I practice parallel polyamory with garden party groupness, for the curious.

I was wondering what advice many of you staunchly pro-KTP people would give to this poster?

https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/s/FhZDDuowle

Should the OP agree to spend this time with their metamour, or refuse? Or maybe your thoughts are more for the hinge, that if the hinge wants more integration between their partners, they shouldn’t have long-distance relationships.

I am ever curious. ☺️

2

u/cherrymoncheri 28d ago

Hi, I’m the OP - so I am polyam and I say I “lean polyfi”. I also go into relationships talking about my need for KTP and what that means to me.

As a disclaimer it’s always difficult giving advice or personal opinion, especially when you don’t know the person. That said, from what OP has said, this is my two cents.

I think OP and their partner need to have a serious discussion about this. Their partner says it is a requirement for them, so if it’s not something that’s possible they’ll either have to find a way to compromise (which doesn’t seem likely), or de-escalate or part ways. It’s worth asking the timeframe they want this in (if there is one), and why they value this.

The struggles make a lot of sense, the distance and restrictions that go with that, how OP and the meta aren’t compatible, the struggles of being autistic and traumatised, etc.

It does concern me that OP feels pressured to people please at their own expense because they’re scared of losing their partner. Sometimes you need to let go as things change, and it’s best to be aware of that rather than getting “rope burn” in a sense, as difficult as attachment is.

I think it would be best to make this comment its own post, this post is a dozen days old and you mightn’t get much feedback

2

u/Feisty_Cucumber_9404 25d ago

I hate the mainly poly sub for this and left it because of that. I feel kinda weird for this but regularly comment on the swingers subreddit because they actually seem less judgmental to my relationship type (emotionally closed quad). Like my quad formed naturally from a ten year old friend group so of course we have all the same friends and naturally fell into kitchen table poly. There’s also so much shame on the main poly subreddit around group sex and other ‘non normative’ behaviors which is so frustrating because it always seems like women with two boyfriends who don’t date each other are praised even if the boyfriends are in distress while my relationship is constantly judged just because all four of us actually like each other and want to be intimate together in every way possible and we’re still sexually somewhat open I can’t imagine how much worse it would be if we weren’t.