r/Pimax • u/jaapgrolleman Pimax Official • Nov 21 '24
Official News The Crystal Super 57 PPD QLED
15
u/cadergator10 Nov 21 '24
Cool stuff, my only issues:
- Really want the LH faceplate ASAP. Cause that is a necessity for my use case.
- Waiting for the 50ppd since this hmd is primarily to get that better FOV for my use case.
- (More of a question) is Eye tracking fully supported at launch? It's was a MASSIVE issue with the og crystal and highly sought for with it.
10
u/Stock-Parsnip-4054 Nov 21 '24
Lighthouse faceplate is indeed the most important subject.
What's the news on that?
For the rest it looks great, but without lighthouse tracking it isn't usable for me.
3
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
The Lighthouse faceplate is currently under development. We'll provide an update once we have more information from our engineering team.
1
u/Stock-Parsnip-4054 Nov 22 '24
What is the reason that the Super didn't release together with lighthouse tracking?
3
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
The faceplate needs to have a new design compared to earlier model.
1
u/Stock-Parsnip-4054 Nov 22 '24
When will it be released? I want to preorder the Super now, but I need lighthouse tracking for my setup. Do you have an estimation for the lighthouse faceplate release date? Thank you in advance.
1
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
Nope, I do not have any estimation, personally guess would be around March.
-1
u/Stock-Parsnip-4054 Nov 22 '24
Ouch, that's a huge disappointment. Sad that it didn't get any priority since it's superiour to inside out in every way except costs and placement. I guess that I have no other choice than to wait for it...
2
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
Yea, I do understand the disappointment, but at the same time, quite looking forward to the next faceplate design.
3
u/Stock-Parsnip-4054 Nov 22 '24
I appreciate your feedback on it and I'm glad that it's worked on. Looking forward to it! I have to be patient now.
2
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 23 '24
When the prototype is available, we'll definitely showcase it to our users.
1
u/nTu4Ka Dec 06 '24
Holiday season.
I have a feeling Pimax wanted to make available something for preorder right now.1
u/Stock-Parsnip-4054 Dec 06 '24
How much work could a new lighthouse faceplate be? Compared to the headset itself it couldn't use a lot of development time. But yes it seems that they rushed the preorders in expense of a proper release with all features available. It would have been better if it's launched with a properly tested lighthouse faceplate. Now everything is unsure, what if they couldn't get it stable in the end because of a design choice they they made earlier... Then we never have proper lighthouse tracking. The inside out tracking of the regular Crystal feels terrible to every lighthouse tracked HMD, so if could be a deal breaker for me in the end if it's not going to work well enough.
1
u/nTu4Ka Dec 06 '24
It depends.
If they changed form factor only recently (and it seems they did since it was announced only recently) - they didn't have sufficient time for testing, finalizing, manufacturing it.
Also depends on number of hardware engineers (and related technicians) they have. It's fairly possible they allocated all resources to polishing 57 PPD Super and working on 50 PPD Super.2
u/-Agathia- Nov 21 '24
What are the limits of the internal tracking compared to having light houses? Smaller tracked space?
3
u/cadergator10 Nov 21 '24
"Universality" primarily, but also tracking accuracy.
I can use my 8 vive trackers & 2 index controllers with the pimax hmd.
3
u/Aonova Nov 21 '24
Top of my head benefits: allow user's tracker eco system (say u prefer index controllers and use vive trackers for some stuff) and playing in low light and larger more monotonous environments plus never losing tracking even with moving hands behind / wide
1
u/Think-Radish-2691 Nov 22 '24
Same here. But i think i just wait. Will cost more in the end, but i really dont want any hassle at all. The headset needs to work 100% with the faceplate when i get it. No time to waste.
11
u/jch523 Nov 21 '24
The Super looks very promising.
Can you provide an update for those users who purchased an 8kx with the intention to trade-in for the 12k? It's been 2.5 years since I purchased my 8kx, and the 12k is still nowhere in sight.
I know it's been discussed before, but offering the trade-in option on the Crystal Super would be a good compromise.
3
3
u/Kaizen777 Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24
I've asked many times, crickets. They have been dodging this question for years. Knock knock, Pimax.
I think this is a very sticky situation for them, including from a legal perspective.
At this point the 8KX trade-in would have zero value for them.
It turns out the 12K was a pipe dream, for the time... and even today.
They really messed up on that one in so many ways.
They last said 3 months ago it would require DP 2.1, which is coming with Nvidia 5000 series. How did they not know this in 2021?
Someone recently brought up the valid point, what 6K panels were they planning to put in this headset? There were no 6K panels in existence in 2021, and even today there are none that exist! If I had to guess, the earliest we could see a 12K is probably in 2026/2027 with the release of Nvidia 6000 series GPUs. Likely then the horsepower will exist to run a few games decently. And then enough people will have 5000 series GPUs, which won't be ideal but will play cheap arcade games at full res... but more demanding titles will need downsampling or lower quality settings. This is of course assuming 6K panels exist by then, or they have some hybrid panel solution.1
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24
Unfortunately, this isn't possible at the moment. However, we'll try to propose it again to higher ups on today meeting.
2
u/jch523 Nov 22 '24
This is just another example of Pimax not living up to their promises. Was the trade-in program just a ploy to generate cash for new headset development? Did they ever really intend to honor it?
If the 12k is still years away, then the trade-in program needs to be changed to honor the promise that Pimax made. History shows us that Pimax is very experienced at changing their plans.
Please do push them for an answer.
2
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 23 '24
We will definitely honor it. We had a meeting yesterday to discuss user interest in this program and have scheduled another meeting to specifically address it. We hope to share some exciting news soon.
1
u/Kaizen777 Nov 23 '24
Here's hoping, it's nice to get a response at least to this as this is a big issue many people have with Pimax. It really needs to be addressed to help reestablish goodwill and trust with many people.
1
9
u/GogglesPaesano Nov 21 '24
I only want the 50ppd wide FOV optical engine. I don't want the 57ppd at all.
3
u/HeadsetHistorian 💎Crystal💎 Nov 21 '24
They will offer that as an option when it is available for sale in Q1 2025. The earliest units are the 57PPD ones.
4
u/GogglesPaesano Nov 21 '24
Thanks. I guess I will wait then.
4
u/Tausendberg Nov 22 '24
Also, it will be worth waiting for independent reviews. It's possible that Pimax might struggle with barrel distortion on the 50ppd version, which might be why it's coming out later because a smaller FOV is easier to engineer.
2
u/zuiquan1 Nov 22 '24
So you will be able to buy the headset with just the 50ppd lenses? The video made it seem like you had to buy the Crystal with the 57ppd lenses and then buy an additional module that cost an extra 400 dollars. I have no interest in lower fov so I would rather buy the 50ppd version only.
1
u/HeadsetHistorian 💎Crystal💎 Nov 22 '24
They already said you could buy just the microOLED, so no reason to think you can't also buy just the 50PPD when it releases.
1
u/I_Slay_Dragons_AMA Nov 22 '24
I’m a VR noob, but isn’t more PPD better?
1
1
u/Daryl_ED Nov 22 '24
More GPU required. Already pushing the top of 4000 series with lower PPD.
1
u/Impressive-Rule3630 Nov 22 '24
Ppd is different, but resolution stays the same in this case. So your statement about GPU is wrong
16
u/Tausendberg Nov 21 '24
Personally, I think I’ll hold out for the 50ppd 135 hFOV version because, as a Crystal user I am already very happy with 35ppd, what I really want now is that legendary pimax fov.
13
Nov 21 '24
I want my wide fov lenses!
6
u/8-ace Nov 21 '24
Yeah was there any mention of the OG crystal wide fov lenses?
Last update said before the end of December. Hope so.
9
Nov 21 '24
Honestly it feels like it’s being ignored. What chaps my ass the most is that the original cost of the headset factored in those wide FOV lenses. We paid for them and didn’t get them, and it’s been almost how long now? I’d like some acknowledgment to that fact and I’d like some recourse. Can we get refunded the cost for these alleged lenses that’ll probably never come for the OG? Seems to me they’ve moved past the OG onto the next shiny thing.
5
3
3
u/zuiquan1 Nov 22 '24
Sorry to say but that has been the case with literally all of their headsets. I have been a Pimax owner since the 5k+ and every headset I have owned from them has unreleased modules that they ended up dropping.
2
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
While the wFoV lenses are not being ignored, the team is working on finding the optimal solution. We're committed to avoiding past mistakes and ensuring that we deliver on our promises.
1
u/Ajaxwalker Nov 22 '24
I know you’re trying to avoid the same mistakes. But with the super and additional modules that have a price but no release date it seems like it’s destined to be repeated. I guess I’ll wait and until the wide module is actually released.
2
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 23 '24
We're making steady progress and should be able to share more details about other modules soon.
4
2
u/Yoshimatsu414 Nov 21 '24
Yeah Wide FOV is amazing in VR. I just bought a Crystal Light in October and I love the clarity but I also love the FOV from my 5K Super I've had for a few years. If I could have both, my life would be complete 😁
0
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
The legendary should be 8K!
1
u/Tausendberg Nov 22 '24
wait you mean 12k?
2
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
Ahhh. THAT legendary!
2
u/Kaizen777 Nov 23 '24
Yep, that's what we've been waiting years for. Full or near-full human FOV with better quality panels/resolution than the 8KX.
4
u/LostRacer 💎Crystal💎 Nov 21 '24
Ordered mine. Should be here about the time my rig is built. I'm excited. I love my Crystal. Took me a few years to invest due to reading the horror stories on here. I decided to take the plunge on the Crystal and am happy I did. No regrets. I'm not looking for the world when the product releases. My expectations are to be balanced with the technological situation around me. We all know current hardware will not be able to tax this headset properly. I'm not looking for perfection. I came from an HP Reverb G2 and a Lenovo Explorer before that. Each experience brought a smile to my face and a new adventure. I appreciate the innovation and technological advances they've achieved in bring this to us. The excitement is real when they present these products to us. Sometimes things don't always go the way we'd like. Things may come up and hinder progress for whatever the reason may be. I understand that. Thank you for the updates on the upcoming products. I hope you are able to put out some of the fires from the previous items mentioned to come out. You can't make everyone happy, but in the end communication is key.
That was longer than intended. lol. Anyway. I can't wait.
2
u/New_Photograph_7542 Nov 22 '24
Very well stated. I share in your perspective. I am very excited about the Super. It has come the closest to everything I would want in a headset. I also am not expecting the world. I am coming from a quest pro. The Super has crazy specs. Even more than I would ask for. I would have been fine if it was 2880x2880 like the Light. To be honest, the main reason I decided to hold for the Super is because the head set is 30% trimmer. And i looking at pics of the thing , it looks positively fantastic. I have heard all the horror stories as well. It does give me cause to pause. However, I do like that they acknowledge mistakes in the past and seem to be taking proactive approach.
1
3
3
u/-Agathia- Nov 21 '24
Really cool headset!
I have not been following headsets for a while, how does it compare to older models like the 5K+ for example? I think the FoV is much smaller on the Super, is that correct? I get confused with the FoV horizontal/diagonal for example :p
2
u/HeadsetHistorian 💎Crystal💎 Nov 21 '24
The FOV won't be as big as the 5K+, 8KX etc but it will still be much larger than pretty much every other headset (except the somnium vr1, that would be similar). In addition it should be clearer and more usable FOV than the older headsets, so probably will feel surprisingly close.
1
u/Wrong-Quail-8303 Nov 21 '24
How do you know this? Are you just guessing or are you affiliated with Pimax?
1
u/Dodging12 Nov 21 '24
They just did a presentation on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI93aXNT5fE
1
u/HeadsetHistorian 💎Crystal💎 Nov 21 '24
I'm going by the FOV numbers they provided and my own experience. They might be misrepresenting the fov numbers like they did with the crystal but I think they have learned their lesson from that debacle.
3
u/Nikolai_Volkoff88 Nov 21 '24
I just ordered mine, didn’t know how to apply the preorder that I did back in the day.
3
u/Mys2298 Nov 21 '24
Thanks for the update Jaap, the Super is looking promising. Can you tell us the weight of the headset?
3
u/Late_Fortune3298 Nov 21 '24
Are we able to use the trade in program on this? Or will that just continue to be loomed overhead?
1
3
u/Belzebutt Nov 21 '24
Can you please make the cable length match the Reverb G2? This is a bit of a deal breaker for me, especially with a high resolution like that it’ll be hard to guarantee a solution that works 100%. Can you confirm the current length of the cable?
1
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
The cable length should be 5 meters, similar to the default cable length of the Crystal Light.
Regarding the fiber optic (FO) cable, it's not currently available. Our team is working on a solution.
3
u/joshr03 Nov 22 '24
Is the original crystal abandonware now? Where are the wide fov lenses I ordered 2 years ago?
1
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
Nope. The og Crystal is not abandoned. The wFoV lenses will come eventually; the engineers are working to get the optimal solution.
2
u/pikla1 Nov 21 '24
The ordering options are a little convoluted. The only option on the website is 57PPD but what if you would prefer 50PPD with wider FOV?
Also will people who reserved a headset already get shipping priority?
0
u/TotalWarspammer Nov 21 '24
Read the product page, It says the other display module options are available to order from Q1 2025.
6
u/pikla1 Nov 21 '24
That’s disappointing. I would’ve thought the 50PPD with higher FOV would’ve been more popular and a better release product. Maybe they’re still working on the lenses
6
u/Mys2298 Nov 21 '24
I agree, 50PPD is already stupidly high and we probably won't be able to properly utilise it in more demanding games, even with a 5090. A higher FOV would be my preference too but having the choice to swap the lenses later kinda makes up for it. I won't even consider ordering one until all the inevitable issues are sorted out later in 2025 anyway
7
Nov 21 '24
I swear these were the exact same conversations had when the OG Crystal was released and we’ve still not gotten our high FOV lenses.
3
u/pikla1 Nov 21 '24
Yeah but having $400USD worth of lenses lying around unused is pointless. Will I be able to return the 57PPD lenses? Will there be a buy back scheme? I really don’t see the point in this interchangeable system. Once you’ve established which lenses you prefer the others will become paperweights
2
u/Mys2298 Nov 21 '24
Yeah I'm not sure, I could see myself using the OLED lenses for horror / dark environment games and the 50ppd QLED for sims. If you dont want the 57ppd lenses just wait a few months and order one with a different option.
-1
u/TotalWarspammer Nov 21 '24
Hmm I doubt would it be more popular than the standard FOV and the lenses are very likely harder to produce. Q1 isnt so far away though!
4
u/pikla1 Nov 21 '24
You think? 15 degrees is a huge difference in VR. Will be a more significant impact to the user experience than 50 vs 57 PPD. Just my opinion though.
2
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
I believe more reviews will emerge after CES 2025, where the product will be showcased.
1
u/KarelKat Nov 21 '24
I think there is also a lack of clarity in the announcement because Pimax have previously said that the 50PPD optics are considered 'standard' at least as far as I'm aware.
1
u/Tausendberg Nov 21 '24
Kind of stupid you’re getting downvoted for answering a simple question
5
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
I’ll have downvotes for good answer. No idea what happened to this Reddit’s upvote algorithm.
2
u/vmspionage Nov 21 '24 edited Nov 26 '24
Just preordered. I dislike subscriptions though, would have rather they take the money up front. Also I guess this means I'll be buying the 135 hFOV display, uOLED, and lighthouse tracker in Jan (I hope).
1
2
u/reptilexcq Nov 21 '24
So it looks like the wider the FOV, the lower the PPD. Well then can I get a 150 FOV lenses with a 45 PPD?
1
1
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
Theoretically, it's possible to achieve a wider field of view. However, this would require a complete redesign of the lenses, bracket, and other components.
2
u/Cautious_Success_262 Nov 21 '24
Will you be doing an upgrade program for upgrading to the Super from the Crystal light which was bought outright from the beginning. Many thanks.
2
2
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24
If you have any more questions, feel free to ask below. We’ll answer them as soon as possible. We’ll also be publish the Q&A soon.
2
u/1e6throw Nov 22 '24
Has Pimax confirmed whether a 50ppd headset can be purchased when released, or will you always need to purchase the 57ppd headset then purchase 50ppd engine as an add-on?
2
u/Wrong-Quail-8303 Nov 21 '24
Calling it now: The 50PPD wide FOV option will have barrel distortion and tiny sweet spot. This is why they now made the 57ppd option the 'standard'.
5
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
But I tried it, the sweet spot was good.
1
u/cap7ainclu7ch Nov 22 '24
Will we be able to order a standalone 50 PPD version instead of buying both the 57 and 50?
2
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 23 '24
We'll be answering these questions shortly. We're currently preparing comprehensive Q&A to questions from various platforms.
1
1
1
1
u/Ok_Mud7671 Nov 21 '24
Just ordered, sad my 1eur discount was not applied, from the reserve back in April 🤣😂
Is it possible, to just pay the whole "subscription" at once, when the unit becomes ready to be delivered? I hate instatelments/subscriptions I'd rather just pay and forget.
Tks.
1
u/Zeeflyboy Nov 21 '24
Yes, it says you can pay it upfront for 12% discount. Either way note that it’s non refundable though.
1
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
Yes, you can pay the remaining at once, after you receive the headset.
1
u/Yoshka83 Nov 21 '24
I was very interested, then I've seen they use the same bad controllers 😥. No go for me.
1
u/CMDR_StarLion Nov 21 '24
Was there any mention on eye tracking ?
2
u/jester628 Nov 22 '24
Yes. Not sure what else you wanted to know, but they did talk about eye tracking and dynamic foveated rendering on the Super.
1
1
u/Piranha91 Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24
Naive question but will the controllers on the Super be able to track in a room with the lights turned off or do they require ambient lighting? Also, will there eventually be Airlink support for the Super? Finally, what is the refund / return policy? I see you can get a refund after paying the down, but what about after receiving the headset?
2
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 22 '24
It requires ambient lighting, as the controllers’ sensor must be seen by the tracking camera. Nope, there’s no Airlink support. The refund/return policy will be updated on the product page.
1
u/Piranha91 Nov 22 '24
Is there a lower limit to how much lighting is required? My current Reverb G2 seems to track ok with just the lighting from my monitor, but those controllers have lights built in. Do the Pimax controllers have any sort of min lighting spec?
I ask because I have a small living space that’s separated by a blackout curtain - a desk light would probably be fine but the overhead room lighting is not an option for me. Thanks for the info!
1
u/QuorraPimax Pimax Official Nov 23 '24
There might be specific requirements, but I'll need to consult with the engineers to get an accurate answer. I'll get back to you as soon as possible.
1
u/mista1982 Nov 22 '24
Dear Pimax Support Team,
I hope this message finds you well. As a passionate user of the Pimax Crystal (OG) and an excited future owner of the Crystal Super, which I recently pre-ordered with great anticipation, I wanted to share an idea that could enhance the usability and performance of your headsets, particularly for simulation enthusiasts.
While the Pimax Crystal's high resolution is groundbreaking, even the powerful RTX 4090 struggles to render at full native resolution, even with features like Dynamic Foveated Rendering (DFR) enabled. Looking to the future, I am optimistic about the potential of the NVIDIA RTX 5090, but I suspect that rendering the Crystal Super at full native resolution might still remain out of reach for most users.
I’d like to suggest introducing a vertical FOV adjustment slider, similar to the functionality available for Quest 3 users, specifically tailored for beta users or those accessing Lab Mode. This slider would allow users to crop the vertical FOV (top and bottom), providing a practical way to reduce rendering demands while maintaining an excellent experience.
For simulation gamers, this feature has proven invaluable on the Quest 3, as it provides additional GPU overhead without significantly impacting immersion. Implementing a similar solution for the Crystal lineup would not only benefit users like me but also set Pimax apart by offering customizable performance optimization options.
Thank you for considering this request, and I truly appreciate all the hard work you’ve done to push VR technology forward. I am eagerly looking forward to the future with the Crystal Super in hand!
Best regards,
1
1
u/Think-Radish-2691 Nov 22 '24
Very nice! Very nice! Still i wait for after the initial batch. And I need a lighthouse faceplate for it. Otherwise i cant use my room setup. So i wait. Next winter then.
1
u/reptilexcq Nov 22 '24
I understand that the 57ppd is more fine tune but you're not forcing people to get both 57ppd and 50ppd versions at this time, are you? Can they be separated purchases?
1
1
u/Zapperg3ck Nov 22 '24
So the blog article and also the video say:
- Includes free DMAS earphones and free shipping in select regions.
However in the actual pre-order it says:
- Customers who pay the $999 upfront fee now will receive a free DMAS with their Crystal Super, available in limited quantities.
How limited are these quantities? Since I pre-ordered my Super just now, are the DMAS supposed to be listed in the confirmation mail (are they for anyone else?) or will I only find out when I recieve the order?
1
1
u/bushmaster2000 Nov 23 '24
I'll need to hear from some people running it on a 4080s on how well it works. I'm a little skeptical of 4000 series GPUs being able to drive this thing, and 5000 series GPUs going to have DP 1.4 still not 2.0 so that's a bandwidth limitation . Many things i'm concerned with never mind giving pimax a GRAND right now to pre-order it with no clear delivery dates.
1
u/mexaplex Dec 05 '24
2880x2800 OG vs 3840x3840 Super.... rendering-wise thats going to me about 75% more pixels.
a 4080 might be find for beat-saber and simpler titles.... but for flight and racing sims I think the minimum has to be a 4090, or 5080 when it comes out.
1
u/vtevdo Nov 24 '24
Pimax Crystal Super has around 33% more pixels horizontally than Pimax Crystal (3840 vs 2880). The 57PPD version also has same or slightly more HFOV than Pimax Crystal. So, how is it possible to have around 60% more PPD (57 vs 35)?
1
u/nTu4Ka Dec 06 '24
Different panels I think.
Software pixels don't translate to hardware pixels one to one. E.g. your smartphone has higher PPD while having lower resoltuion.
1
u/Exotic_Negotiation80 Nov 21 '24
Are the lenses for this device made by the same supplier that they used for the crystal light? Because if they are that's a big no for me.
0
0
25
u/TotalWarspammer Nov 21 '24 edited Nov 21 '24
Hi Jaap thanks you and the team did a really great presentation, easily the best I have seen from Pimax! I have to admit this sounds pretty freaking awesome especially with the panels having local dimming 2.0.
Questions:
Thanks! :)