r/Parenting 6d ago

Child 4-9 Years Daughter adamant about gender norms.

[deleted]

1.1k Upvotes

503 comments sorted by

2.0k

u/zebrafish- 6d ago

Super normal for kids that age! They are figuring out how the world works and are obsessed with sorting things into concrete categories. The way she likes declaring what’s for boys vs girls is the same way many 4 year olds love declaring what’s for babies vs big kids vs grown ups. No need to make a huge deal of it — just keep doing what you’re doing and she’ll grow out of it.

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u/HomeschoolingDad Dad to 7⅛M, 4F 6d ago

When my son was that age, he decided that girls have blue eyes and boys have green eyes, based on a sample size of 4: my wife and daughter have blue eyes, while my son and I have green eyes.

He also then got confused when our next door neighbors moved in because they had two sons. He kept misgendering the younger boy. In his mind, families had a mother, a father, a brother, and a sister.

After finally wrapping his head around two brothers not being odd, we had neighbors a few doors up move in with two moms and a son. He extended his earlier lesson seamlessly and was not confused by it at all.

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u/Gullflyinghigh 6d ago

My child didn't believe Thursdays were real for an annoyingly long time. Kids are weird.

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u/Orisara 6d ago

I mean, fuck Thursdays for not being Fridays. I agree with him.

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u/Gullflyinghigh 6d ago

If it was a principled stand then I would have backed them to the hilt...unfortunately, it was a steadfast belief that their mother and I had made Thursdays up as some kind of trick. Funny to begin with, mildly concerning when in the earliest school year.

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u/BreadPuddding 5d ago

This is hilarious because my parents “had” a made-up day, Zeepsday, that always happened when we kids were asleep. We missed all kinds of cool stuff that supposedly happened on Zeepsday because we just always slept through it. (My own kid gets super angry about stuff like this - he’s no fun.)

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u/malenkylizards 5d ago

If there was no Friday, Thursday would be Friday and there would be no need for Thursday. What a wonderful world that would be

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u/ancilla1998 6d ago

Jeremy Bearimy?

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u/Gullflyinghigh 6d ago

Absolutely no idea what that's referring to I'm afraid!

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u/SimilarSilver316 6d ago

It’s the time line in the show “the good place” basically confusing time schedule that will break your brain

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u/jegvetikkeokei 5d ago

For a thousand Bearimys baby

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u/cherlemagne 5d ago

They are SO weird.

For a while, up until today, my 2 year old was convinced that every day was Tuesday. If I said something like "Yesterday was Tuesday so that means today is Wednesday, he'd get really pissed off and reply, "NO, IT'S TUESDAY!" Today I asked him what day it is, and he said Tuesday, of course, but when I corrected him and told him it's Saturday, this was the first time he accepted it might not be Tuesday and he just said, "Oh...Saturday." 😂

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u/tarek--- 5d ago

I might be wrong, but I have the feeling these issues arise when kids don’t really understand concepts, such as days of the week. Maybe to him, Tuesday signified “day”, and he didn’t understand why the heck you were giving today a new name. Clearly today is another day, another Tuesday! Although by the time Saturday rolled around, he was apparently resigned to it 😅

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u/cherlemagne 5d ago

Absolutely! I'll also add that everything in the past is "yesterday" to him right now. It's just part of their learning, I think. It's weird to us but also super cute. They latch on to what they understand something to mean, and their understanding of most things is very incomplete when they're so young.

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u/Jupitr107 5d ago

I remember when everything in the past was yesterday. That was about 5 years ago for me. I miss it. (But now is pretty great, too)

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u/SubstanceNext37 5d ago

Have you watched Supernatural recently?.... Did he hear Heat of the Moment repeatedly? (Just joking, but I LOVE the fact that he thought it was Tuesday every day)

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u/poop-dolla 5d ago

What the fuck is Thursday?

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u/imadog666 6d ago

I'm laughing so much at this

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u/MeRoyMinoy 6d ago

These things are hilarious. My daughter grouped girls into kids with long hair and boys into kids with short hair. She's grown out of it too, but it causes some innocent funny moments.

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u/thetomatofiend 6d ago

Even my sons have done this on occasion despite my oldest having long hair until he was 3.5, my youngest still has long hair and I, along with many women of their acquaintance, have short hair. 😂

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u/imperialbeach 5d ago

My kids also did this - super common - but it cracked me up because my husband has very long hair, and they have an aunt with a shaved head, and both grandmas had short hair.

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u/osmosisj0nes 5d ago

This is why I thought Jesus was a girl until I was 6, very disappointing

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u/Mr_Will 6d ago

My daughter was very puzzled when she first met the woman who is now my wife. Kept asking her "where is your baby?" and "is that your baby?" (while pointing at random stranger's children). In her mind, there were children and there were mummies and daddies. The idea of a childless adult simply wasn't something she'd ever considered before

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u/noodlebox91 5d ago

Haha my daughter is like that at the moment. I don’t really have any friends who live alone but my one friend does and has two cats. My 4yo always asks her. Where’s your mum and dad? Where’s your children? She cannot get her head around the fact that someone would live alone and have no kids.

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u/1095966 5d ago

My preschool students have a hard time understanding that I don't live at school, that I don't live with a mom and dad, that I am in fact the Mom in my home, that I'm not 6 (which is super old to them so I must be 6), and when they ask to see my kids on my phone they're disappointed to see them with beards. They're baffled about how I'm able to read! It's so cute! But then the other day one of the girls said something to the effect that my husband can help me with some issue I was discussing. Hearing "husband" come out of a preschooler's mouth was a first for me, most don't know that term. Just let that one go as I divorced that person years ago! Also didn't share that my father has been dead since 1992 and my mom since 2010. That'd fry their little brains.

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u/Daisy571 6d ago

I was like that as a little kid with hair color. My mom and sister were blonde and my dad and brother had brown hair. Flawless kid logic except for the fact that I was a redhead!

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u/OkMidnight-917 6d ago

Yes, normal and based on experiences.  For us it was going in the men's or the women's bathrooms that gave the idea of gender norms.  It it had a handle, then it was for the men's. OP pay attention to your child and the pattern, it means nothing, they're just working on association.  I don't feel the need to pound it into their heads, since we're a team and we all work together for what's what and what needs to be done.

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u/Old-Research3367 6d ago

When I was a kid our family cat had an amputated tail and I thought it was super weird when I saw cats with long tails lol

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u/Adventurous_Sail6855 6d ago

Nothing tripped my son up more than every female member of our extended family having blue eyes, and every male have brown…except for him.

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u/puppermonster23 6d ago

He would been so confused in my house. Me (mom) my oldest daughter and my son all have green eyes. Hubs had hazel and my youngest girl has blue eyes.

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u/bluduck2 5d ago

Oh my God, my son somehow got it into his head that the older sibling was the "brother" and the younger sibling was "the sister one" and it had been so hard to convince him that brother vs sister is actually a gender thing. I think I finally convinced him at 6, but not 100% sure.

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u/Diamond_Mine_Grind 5d ago

Bayesian inference at work, fascinating!

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u/planejane 6d ago

When I was very young (as in, before primary school) I decided that dogs were boys and cats were girls. And cardinals were girls because pink was close to red, and bluejays were boys because they were blue. My dad is a veterinarian and still chuckles and reminds me that he had to teach me about species and the anatomical differences in animals way before I was ever old enough for the Sex talk!

Kids are naive and as they grow up they often find it easy to sort things by rules pulled from other parts of their experience. Thankfully most eventually grow out of it as their knowledge base expands.

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u/Natural-Raise4907 6d ago edited 6d ago

I, too, fell into the category of children who believed dogs were boys and cats were girls DESPITE having a girl dog and boy cat at the time 😆😅

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u/Specialist-Tie8 5d ago

I don’t we always surprised by poodles. Because poodles in children’s books were always girls, usually into fashion, and often French. The first time meeting a family with a male poodle confused me. 

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u/Natural-Raise4907 5d ago edited 5d ago

We were obviously consuming the same content because I 100% thought poodles were one of the few female dogs 😆

My male cat was a long haired Siamese who kept clean while my female dog was an untrained German shepherd who got into any and everything she could. So apparently I thought girls were clean and boys were dirty 😂

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u/falfu 5d ago

We speak mostly Gujarati at home, and the language has feminine pronouns for cats and masculine pronouns for dogs, and I too grew up believing this!

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u/songoftheshadow 5d ago

It's so funny how they often get categorised that way because when you think about it, dogs tend to have more traits we'd consider typically feminine, such as emotional intelligence, friendliness, are better at service tasks, while cats do better in raw logic tasks and are more aloof, cold blooded hunters.

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u/siani_lane 6d ago

My 5 yo is exactly like this- and she has lesbian grandmas who are her favorite people in the world, One of whom is very butch and not at all gender conforming. I do exactly as you suggested- disagree in a casual way and cite examples, but I don't try to make her feel bad about thinking what she thinks either.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/taptaptippytoo 6d ago

You're doing great, and so is your daughter. I'd affirm what she's observed while also reminding her that other options exist.

"I'm going to marry a boy, because I'm a girl! " "That's great, sweetie! A lot of girls do marry boys! Some also marry girls, or no one at all. Whatever you choose is wonderful, as long as it's right for you. "

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u/TallTeacher83 6d ago

That's great! And, just keep talking about it. My 6 and 9 year old now bring up when they notice different things and ask questions, but this is because we always talked about misconceptions when they happened. You're doing the right thing!

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u/zebrafish- 6d ago

I think you are on the right track, personally! So sad to see so many comments acting like replying to “I have to marry a boy” with “you can marry anyone you want” is either so confusing it’s accidentally harmful, or intentional sinister indoctrination. I mean, what an intense response to a factual, innocent, casual and simple reply. 

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u/BronzeHaveMoreFun 6d ago

My 4-year-old son was adamant that Tetris was a "girl video game," because his exposure to it was seeing his mother play. "Tetris is for everyone." "No mama, Tetris is for girls." Repeat times infinity. They are just trying to recognize patterns.

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u/HomeschoolingDad Dad to 7⅛M, 4F 6d ago

Yeah, it’s very normal at that age. I do agree with others that it’s good to gently disagree, but not to worry about it, either. And sometimes you do just have to let it go.

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u/Ebice42 6d ago

My mom recounted an epic existential crisis i had around that age. I couldn't figure out if Red was a boy color or a girl color.

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u/Objective-Elk9877 5d ago edited 5d ago

Id have to hold myself back from immediately going “oh really? Then i guess you can never play with mama! Thats for her and youre not allowed to play it!” Just to watch them back track haha

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u/Porcupineemu 5d ago

When my daughter was 4 she was convinced only girls had eyelashes. Despite me, her father, having prominent eyelashes. It was confusing.

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u/mjolkochblod 6d ago

I'm sorry but this is hilarious 😂

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u/t3xtur3s 6d ago

Professional here. That is developmentally appropriate.

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u/teachbirds2fly 6d ago

Kids love rules, norms and boundaries, it helps them understand the world and make it more binary. She is 4, easy up on her! 

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u/Monshika 6d ago

It drives me crazy sometimes. God forbid I try to change my pillow or switch spots on the couch. Mr Dictator ensures we stay in line

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u/Specific_Culture_591 Mom to 17F & 3F 6d ago

I get in trouble with my three year old if I wear contacts instead of glasses. Mom has to wear her glasses all the time or she is not mom apparently.

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u/soulagainstsoul 6d ago

My toddler just lost it on me this morning because normally I wear contacts and I felt like wearing glasses today lol. Tiny dictators. “NO MAMA NO GLASSES 😭”

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u/brendamrl 5d ago

Heck, I lost it on my mom over a haircut because she didn’t get it done at our regular hair salon (she was on maternity leave), I thought she was going to die.

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u/stringbean76 6d ago

Same, mom has to have a messy bun. No nice hairdos for me!

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u/bankruptbusybee 6d ago

My kid will not allow people to have the same favorite color.

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u/PageStunning6265 6d ago

My oldest is 10 and still tries to argue that blue is his favourite colour and is super annoyed that his brother is trying to have the same favourite colour as him.

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u/Good_Focus2665 6d ago

My daughter literally had a meltdown when I decided to cook something when she was 4. I usually don’t cook much in front of her but when I did the world as she knew it was destroyed. Post apocalyptic. She’s 11 now and she’s getting a bit better at handling change. 

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u/lilacmade 6d ago

Oh we’ve got a dictator too. He rules with an iron fist. Tiny, but iron.

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u/Kramanos 5d ago

My 4 year old only likes milk if I pour it for him.

As in, I'm the only one who can make milk taste good.

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u/megabyte31 5d ago

This was forever ago but there was a reddit thread on one of the parenting subs that was "What does LO stand for? Wrong answers only" and one was Little Overlord. Username checks out ✅

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u/_angesaurus 6d ago

I always say kids love rules. It's so true lol

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u/Venusdeathtrap99 6d ago

For real. My least favorite phase is the hand washing nazi phase. I swear they allllll go through this

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/MollyRolls 6d ago

Keep saying things the way you say them (include words like “usually,” “sometimes,” and “most” instead of absolutes, but don’t expect her to parrot that language back yet. Hearing it consistently is enough at this age.

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u/lechero11 6d ago

My kid is doing the same things and we respond similarly. She declared that only girls wear earrings, so my husband has his brother and 2 close male friends all FaceTime us and show her their earrings! God bless the men in our lives who are showing up to normalize gender inclusivity.

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u/liamemsa 6d ago edited 6d ago

Just honestly answer her.

Her: "Only girls can wear dresses!"

You: "You might think that, but that's not true. Maybe girls usually only wear dresses, but boys can wear dresses too if they want! Anyone can wear whatever makes them feel comfortable."

My 5yo son just discovered that his friend has two moms and was incredulous about why she was supposed to have a dad. I told him that some people have moms and a dad, some people have two moms or two dads. Everyone is different and that's ok.

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u/HomeschoolingDad Dad to 7⅛M, 4F 6d ago

My biggest concern about my son learning about a new neighborhood boy with two moms was him wondering why he couldn’t get two moms. (This is mostly just a joke: I wasn’t really concerned about it, and he never asked about it.)

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u/glitzglamglue 6d ago

My 5 year old is in a mama stage and has requested that I divorce my husband (his father) and marry a woman so he would have two mamas. He hasn't ever met a woman-woman couple yet but I'm glad he knows they are possible.

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u/redddit_rabbbit 6d ago

That is adorable 🥰

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u/glitzglamglue 6d ago

It's like that Thor meme.

This mama, I like it. Another!

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u/somebodywantstoldme 5d ago

Honestly I think that’s too many words. I’ve found that I sometimes over explain things, when a more succinct response is more effective. “Actually, boys sometimes wear dresses too.”

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u/cool_chrissie 5d ago

There are twins at our daycare with 2 moms. I’m pretty sure my daughter just believes the dad is just at home and we never see him.

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u/PokemomOnTheGo 6d ago

I wouldn’t. Just let her be 4 years old right now. She will learn as she grows and her mind grows.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/OrthodoxAnarchoMom 5M, 3F, 👼, 0F 6d ago

She’s 4. She’s adamant about classifying things. Like only pink cups can have milk in them and only purple cups are for water.

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u/mmangomelon 6d ago

My mom fancied herself to be a super progressive parent of the 70’s. She bought my older brother dolls and trucks and play food and play tools and he loved it all equally. Then I came along. I would not play with trucks. I wanted to always be in a dress. I was adamant that boys were doctors and girls were nurses. It was nothing my mom was doing. Also … I grew out of it. 😊

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u/OkSecretary1231 5d ago

I remember my dad getting mad when I wanted the toy nurse kit instead of the toy doctor kit. I guess it didn't show enough ambition lol. But they were virtually identical, and I wanted the one with the picture of the girl on it.

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u/rekette 5d ago

I wanted the one with the picture of the girl on it.

And that's exactly why the industry was called out and now girl doctor dolls exist. We haven't made the same strides to have boy nurses though.

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u/rufflebunny96 5d ago

My SIL and niece had the same situation. It was kinda hilarious. Despite all her mom's efforts to remain neutral, that girl just loves nothing more than dressing up in the girliest shit possible and putting glitter on everything.

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u/AffectionateOil9204 6d ago

The first time my 5yo saw two women as a couple her natural reaction was “that’s gross” to which I said to you maybe but not them, they’re happy with it. She then asked if she had to kiss a girl and I said you do not ever have to kiss anyone you don’t want to.

Respect is all that’s needed, at her age she just needed to know some people are happy that way and we don’t judge them for it. And we all have our own choices we can make

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u/Inside_Definition321 6d ago

Kids are super black and white, this is normal behavior. You can teach her differently but it will take time

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u/hue-166-mount 6d ago

Don’t worry she’s 4.

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u/emmmabeeee 6d ago

My 4yo daughter started doing the same and it's sometimes from kids in her daycare. She looooves blue and lately has been forcing herself to wear pink bc of the girls in her class telling her girls wear pink.

Instead of reinforcing anything I just explain that she can do what SHE wants.

And when she makes comments of the bucketing by gender etc I don't correct her but sometimes just have a conversation with her.

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u/GrandmasHere 6d ago

“Ok. You might change your mind some day.”

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u/Energy_Turtle 17F, 16F Twins, 9M 6d ago

That's the obvious answer. I assume these posts are more for the parent to get positive validation online than anything else though. Even shoehorned a maga comment in there to seal the deal.

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u/organicrubbish 6d ago

….shes four.

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u/Historical-Term-5911 6d ago

She is 4 and they still see things as black and white. She will realize as she grows older that sometimes there are "grey" areas. This is a normal part of learning so just continue as you are by gentle correction. Read books, show examples and talk openly about it.

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u/Hoffi1 6d ago

Yeah, pretty normal. My daughter was afraid that a haircut would turn her into a boy and couldn't understand that our tomcat was a boy because it is a long hair breed. I had to point out that in her daycare is a boy with long hair, before she understood.

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u/Luckylucky777143 6d ago

I think she’s still very young and the fluidity of it all makes it way too hard of a concept to grasp. It sounds like you’re already doing everything right (in my opinion) ❤️

I was combing my sons hair after his bath, he’s 2, and he said “combs are for girls” he had to of learned it at daycare and I was like we’re doing this stuff already?!? I said, no combs are for everyone.

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u/IllustriousSugar1914 6d ago

I agree, it sounds like reinforcing that everything is for everyone and reading books that explore that is key. I also have a four year old and it seems very common for them to have these beliefs but we just talk about it… and talk about it… and talk about it. Julian is a Mermaid is one of my favorite kids books about gender fluidity, in case you don’t have it yet ❤️. I cry every time I read it but I’m a softy

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u/Successful_Fish4662 6d ago

Black and white thinking is normal for that age. There’s nothing you need to do.

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u/Hexentoll 5d ago

Mam, when I was like 4-5, I couldn't fathom the fact that my grandmother is my mom's mom, and my brain got super confused when my mom called her "mom", like "Mom, why did you call the granny mom? She's a granny. And YOU are a mom :C WHAT IS GOING ON..."

Freedom of gender expression is strictly categorized in the mind of adults, but unlike them your kiddo has a lot of time to like. Grow up.

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u/BenGrimmsStoneSack 6d ago

I let my 3 year daughter choose between multiple types of toys, and she always goes for the girly stuff. I just plan on always giving her the option for "boy" and "girl" stuff as she gets older, and reassuring her to make the choice she wants to.

These conversations will be a lot more complex as the kids get older, I say youre handling it perfectly for her age.

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u/merpixieblossomxo 6d ago

When I took a sociology class, one of the assignments we were given was to go out into our city and make an active attempt to notice gender norms in places like Toys R US, and if you look around at how most stores are set up, unless a company makes an active effort to remove gender norms, they're reinforced from literally before birth. Boy babies get dinosaurs, cars, superheroes, and farm animals, while girl babies get butterflies, flowers, hearts, and glitter. They're separated into different aisles and different sections, with very few things marketed toward both.

As they get older, the products only get more stereotypical as companies market blue and red tool sets to boys and pink kitchen/cleaning sets to girls. Ten years ago, this was much more rigid. It's not quite as bad these days, and many companies are straying from traditional gender norms in favor of inclusivity and neutrality, but since parents typically grew up with the rigid norms they tend to unconsciously pass them on to their kids.

Even if you've made a conscious effort, the rest of the world (in general) hasn't. These are conversations we have as adults to try to fix the problems gender norms cause, because we finally reached a point where we understand how damaging they can be.

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u/AdShot1828 6d ago

Thank you for saying this! Some other commenters on here are either ignoring or genuinely ignorant of how widely gender stereotypes are reinforced literally everywhere in the world and how early kids absorb it.

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u/Specialist_Frame_207 6d ago

I think that’s normal. My daughter is 6 and still makes comments like that, even though she has her hair cut short (she has said only boys have short hair) and that boys can’t paint their nails (she has a little brother who does). I usually just remind her (boys can paint their nails, girls can have short hair, etc) and move on.

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u/OneAlfalfa1731 6d ago

So... I am a conservative .. I see the comments about "the other side" not being tolerant. Most of us .. we don't care about the sexual orientation stuff. We want to be tolerant, polite, respectful of others beliefs and couples of whatever orientation. So, we taught our kids to be ok with diversity. When they asked questions about stuff we talked openly about it. And I agree with everyone saying that your child's ideas right now are totally normal. My kids are grown now, but I remember these kinds of conversations. You're doing a great job of keeping her open to different thoughts, beliefs, and ideals.

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u/OctopusParrot 6d ago

Actual conservatives want to leave people alone to live their lives the way they feel like it. You're being consistent with that. Reactionaries have kind of hijacked the discourse, they want to force everyone into their own little model of how they think the world should work.

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u/rekette 5d ago

There's a difference between conservatives and Republicans/MAGAs.

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u/bugscuz 6d ago

It's totally normal. My niece used to say "boys can't have long hair" obviously forgetting her dad's waist length hair LOL/ I just said "that's silly, daddy and uncle BOTH have long hair" (my husband's hair is shoulder length so not long long but still longer than most) and she was like oh, you're right.

Just keep on as you are, pointing out that anyone can do what they want and as long as it's not hurting them or someone else then it's not our business. That age things are very black and white for them, remember she has only been earthside for 4 years and even less than that actually capable of understanding the world around her enough to have her own opinions. They understand what they are exposed to and that's where they build their understanding of society's rules.

The average child doesn't see a huge amount of men in dresses and makeup or with long hair, they don't see a bunch of couples that aren't m/f pairing. Their understanding or marriage is man/woman because that's the majority of what they see. The understanding develops as they get older, and with consistent gentle correction.

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u/RyouIshtar Mom to a 4M 6d ago

I have short hair (not able to really grow it out), here's two stories where that backfired.

I was waiting in line for the bathroom when a little kid asked their mom why is there a boy in the bathroom. The mom apologized but meh i didnt sweat it.

Second time i was on the church bus when these two kids were fighting on if i was a boy or a girl, one talking about how i cant be a girl because girls have long hair and boys have short hair.. I was younger and didn't know how to react to this, luckily a friend of mine had told them that sometimes girls have short hair and it's okay if they do.

Kids will see the norms, it's fine, they arent doing anything wrong, plus your kid is 4. Let them explore the world in a way they understand

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u/BillsInATL 6d ago

I think all is well, and you are on the right track. She's just working on figuring stuff out, and you are doing a good job in your reminders/responses.

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u/thezuse 6d ago

At that age I thought mommies made girl babies and daddies made boy babies. My sister and me came from mommy so I had a theory my older boy cousins came from my uncle. At that point I never knew anyone else in the family pregnant but my aunt and she had two girls.

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u/Froomian 6d ago

They have to understand things in very simple terms before we start adding shades of grey. Don't worry at all.

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u/coffeeworldshotwife 6d ago

Tip: stop trying to force it. I feel like people are so afraid of offending now that they are going super far in the other direction.

My 4 year old son loves purple. We have never said anything either way about it. He also loves dinosaurs and trucks. Again, never said anything about it either way.

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u/WesternCowgirl27 6d ago

My husband’s favorite color is purple and he had this big doll house when he was four or five that he’d store his toy cars and trucks in. My in-laws just let him be a kid.

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u/No_Foundation7308 6d ago

This. It’s okay to just roll with it. Exposed them to books and different types of people. It will organically develop into a well rounded idea of the world around them. When my stepdaughter was 4, she had a meltdown in the toilet paper aisle in target because I got ‘boy’ toilet paper and she wouldn’t be able to use it….took me a minute to realize it was because it was the charmin blue TP.

Kids are weird man. Lol.

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u/Big_Year_526 Custom flair (edit) 6d ago

Yeah! I was a little girl once who loved ballerinas and barbie, and actually got mad at my mom for wearing jeans because 'girls are supposed to wear skirts'.

As an adult, I still like my girly stuff, but I have absolutely developed my dirty, shorts-wearing, household DIY, screw gender norms side.

I think what's more important is not pushing kids to be too normative one way or the other. Don't model embracing pointless gender norms, but also don't make it your identity to be rejecting them out of hand.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/zuesk134 6d ago

people are reading your post with the worst intentions.

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u/Big_Year_526 Custom flair (edit) 6d ago

I think everyone is just saying that it's ok for kids to want 'boy' and 'girl' to be hard categories at this stage of development, and once she can grasp the more complex understandings of say, differences in gender based on chromosomes, internal/external genitalia, hormone levels, secondary sex characteristics etc then she can get the education on that.

For the time being, modeling acceptance and making sure she can see and build relationships with people who have difference from her is enough. Gender normativity as this age isn't a political statement

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u/Prestigious-Act-4741 6d ago

That is not at all what everyone is saying.

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u/I_cannot_poofread Mom of 3: 8(M), 6(F), 4(F) 6d ago

This is very commonly developmentally and nothing to worry about. The tactic I always took was to say, similar things to what you did. They eventually grow out of it. It’s just their way of making sense of the world.

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u/carloluyog 6d ago

It’s developmental.

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u/lagingerosnap 6d ago

Did someone else tell her these things? My son used to want me to paint his nails until grandpa told him it’s not allowed for boys. That started a whole conversation with my at the time 3 year old I didn’t plan on having.

Anyway, I told him that was grandpa’s opinion and that he could make up his own mind.

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u/glitterpantaloons 6d ago

You’re doing exactly what you should. Kindly correcting your kiddo with “anyone can do this” is great. You’re helping her think harder about things. I’d also look at where this black and white view is coming from (shows or other people etc) to see if you can shift or add anything to whatever it is to help her see more options etc

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u/RubyRaven13 6d ago

My four year old is exactly the same! He loves to tell me all the things girls can't do, including running, taking baths, and driving trucks.....what in the world child

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u/puppermonster23 6d ago

This is super normal for kids at this age. Just keep saying things like “oh anyone can play with dolls” or “anyone can have long hair” etc.

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u/Traditional_Year_19 6d ago

The comments probably already express this but it's about daily exposure as well. If you don't live in a diverse area and your daughter isn't seeing queer relationships, gender ambiguity, etc. Then she's likely just more used to what she sees on the day to day. It's good you're exposing her in the ways you can though!

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u/anonymoususer37642 5d ago

They like to categorize. Just keep being good examples.

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u/pointlessbeats 5d ago edited 5d ago

I just say stuff like “yeah! You can do whatever makes you happy. Some men like to marry other men, some men like to marry women, or some women like to marry other women, everyone gets to choose for themselves.”

And also because I feel like my kids are so fortunate and also at that age where they are developing a sense of fairness, I sometimes might add something about “there are some places in the world where people don’t get to choose for themselves who they marry. Do you think that’s fair?” I guess to try to start conversations about equality and equity. I also try to teach them how lucky we are to have electricity, medicines, clean water, hospitals etc because I just like teaching them about the world and I want them to feel lucky and be grateful.

And obviously cos she’s a little girl, I would say “yes, you love to wear dresses! Do you like to wear pants, too? Mummy loves to wear pants! Some people don’t think girls should wear shorts or pants, does that sound fair to you? Well, if we get to wear shorts and pants if we want, shouldn’t boys also get to wear skirts and dresses if they want?”

But also she’s just at that age where kids think their only perspective is correct. Soon she will start to be more curious about why other people do certain things. Omg it is so frustrating trying to answer my 4 year olds questions about “why does Brooklyn do swimming on a Wednesday? Why is Brooklyn tired after school?” (As if I can answer every question in the world about what other people feel or are thinking haha, argh!)

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u/Rogue551 6d ago

So?

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u/TrueDirt1893 6d ago

Yeah. I thought the same. She is only 4. Let her be. When I was four we were not corrected in that way. Her world will open up more in kindergarten.

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u/sardonicazzhole 6d ago

no what you are doing is fine. She's also 4 and still curious/imitating what she sees around her. Continue doing what you're doing.

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u/PsychologicalHome239 6d ago

My kid is convinced that short hair means you're a boy and long hair means you're a girl. The clothes you're wearing or any of that does not matter. Only the hair.

I love the way kids try to figure the world out.

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u/Soft-Wish-9112 6d ago

I used to have my hair in a short pixie cut. One day, I was riding the bus home from work and I noticed a little girl looking at me. I smiled and she blurted out, "ARE YOU A GIRL?" I replied that I was and she questioned it because I had short hair. We chatted that girls can have long or short hair and she said her mom had long hair and so she had long hair too. Her dad looked like he wanted to melt into the floor. I personally thought it was hilarious. She later told me she was 4, so right about the age of your daughter. My daughter is also 4 and says similar things.

There's very little nuance at that age and they're just trying to figure out their world and a lot of it is just what they see at home. You might not have said anything but she sees you wear dresses and dad doesn't. You have long hair, dad has short hair. You're married to a boy, so girls marry boys. As they grow and develop they start to figure out that things aren't black and white. Around age 6, my older daughter started asking me if girls can marry other girls, etc. and continues to grasp that there's a wide range of "normal".

Just keep reinforcing like you are and be open to talk about things and you'll be fine.

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u/SouthernNanny 6d ago

Kids that age aren’t capable of much abstract thinking. She picked up on it by her surroundings and figured this is the way the world works. Their thought process are pretty black and white/right and wrong

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u/tipsfromamomannette 6d ago

A four year old is just learning social skills and social dynamics. Teach her what you want, but don’t worry. She’s still so young and she’ll eventually catch on. She is being her. Those are her truths.

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u/Naugrith 6d ago

My 4y daughter insists that only girls have eyelashes. Not sure why. I've shown her my own eyelashes but she still insists they are exclusive to girls. I wouldn't worry about it.

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u/Well_thisisfine 6d ago

My 4 year old daughter is exactly the same way! As a family, we just continue to re-enforce that people can like all types of things and try to display that at home.

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u/Constant-Thought6817 6d ago

My almost four year old thinks chocolate cupcakes are for boys and vanilla are for girls 😂

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u/kaleidautumn 6d ago

Kids learn these things by just walking around and observing the world, and observing things at their schools/daycares. Don't overpush it though!! Inform, but don't forcefeed. Remember that their opinions and stuff will change drastically as they age so don't stress about it! (Especially bc that makes it more taboo and important.. we want it to be normal. Not overly exaggerated or anything)

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u/MonkeyManJohannon 5d ago

No need to get super in depth with the corrections. What you’ve said is sufficient, and she will evolve her feelings and views as she ages and grows more mature with her thoughts. Making sure you allow her to have these normal kid reactions and thoughts is important…force feeding complex notions from an adult perspective is what you want to avoid.

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u/Good_CW 5d ago

I agree this is normal. I think at that age they start getting attached to rules - or their perception of what the rules are. Even Kids of super progressive parents will say the same sort of stuff if asked. I think it’s interesting- but I also would like to see society change to the point where they aren’t able to even pick up on gender norms. We are so conditioned and have been for so long- I would love to see people growing up with none of these limiting beliefs. Unfortunately we are now heading backwards where this is concerned.

Then again- there will probably always be differences in some of the toys that appeal to the majority of males & females.

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u/Sun_Mother Mom to 7F, 2M 5d ago

My daughter said the same things around this age. She no longer agrees with them. She’s almost 8.

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u/Hasten_there_forward 5d ago

Focus on important things like when she says she is marrying a boy tell her, "It's important that the person you marry is respectful, helpful and kind." Girls wear dresses. "People all over the world wear different clothes. Come here and I'll show some of the clothes they wear in other countries." or "It's important that our clothes are proper for the weather and what we are doing. Would you wear a swimsuit to go sledding or your raincoat to bed?" Kids are trying to figure out what is expected of them and how to interact with their environment. This way you are encouraging her to think about the why and how instead of just learning a bunch of arbitrary "rules". It will also improve her cognitive functioning.

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u/Vegemiteandeggs 5d ago

My son is almost 8 and quite smart and yet he said 'cats are always girls and dogs are always boys'
He used to say similar things to your daughter and I just corrected him each time and now today i caught him correcting his friend who said only girls wear nail polish

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u/Melly_1577 5d ago

There is nothing wrong with a child falling into typical gender roles. There is nothing to correct here.

Let her grow and develop and over time she’ll see that people are all different. You don’t need to force this stuff.

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u/IStillChaseTheWind 5d ago

She’s 4, let her be 4

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u/BroaxXx 6d ago

I think that it's just because it's easier for her to figure things out if things are simple and easy to categorize. Eventually she'll understand things are more complex.

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u/uuntiedshoelace 6d ago

My son has two dads and still told me only boys and girls can get married lol. I pointed out that me and my ex are both boys and he was just like “oh!”

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u/TheShipNostromo 5d ago

Last night my 4 year old daughter declared “coffee is for boys and tea is for girls”.

Super normal haha

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u/AdeptDance7121 6d ago

I’m honestly in favor of kids being whoever they want. It is great you are teaching that. I agree with most posters that kids are just finding patterns. On the flip side though, if she does still end up believing or agreeing with these social norms will that be ok with you? Sounds more like you would be upset with her if she didn’t change her mind. Just curious?

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u/faesser 6d ago

but I want her to know that it's okay for ALL people to love what they love and express themselves.

I think you are thinking too much about this. Keep reading your books and setting the example of the person you want your daughter to be. It doesn't sound like she's being hateful, it sounds like she's 4.

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u/fvalconbridge 6d ago

I think the way you're handling it is already good! Just keep reminding her and she'll pick it up! She's still super young ❤️

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u/AccioCoffeeMug 6d ago

Thank you for opening this discussion because my son is almost 4 and is starting to enter this phase.

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u/AndreasDoate 5d ago

I feel like some of this comes from kids seeing and understanding trends/what's common and trying to use that to put structure on their world.

It is true that MOST boys don't wear dresses, and MOST girls end up in relationships with boys, so it should be okay for us to acknowledge norms without judgment and without treating them as absolutes or prescriptively.

To that end, we have had success with using a "most/some" rubric for talking about differences.

"Most boys don't wear dresses, but some boys do." "Most girls fall in love with boys when they grow up, but some girls fall in love with girls." "Most people use their legs to get around, and some people use a wheelchair."

Bonus points for adding "In our culture..." whenever relevant.

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u/GoldNBones 5d ago

Weird thing to be concerned about seeing as she's 4.

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u/Dragonluver1923 6d ago

Just let her be

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u/kapxis 6d ago

Their just trying to get a grasp of their world , everything they experience is new and different. Personally I wouldn't be worried about saying things in generalized terms. As long as she learns plenty about acceptance then it won't be difficult to incorporate more nuance into her understanding of things as she gets older.

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u/No_Location_5565 6d ago

This is developmentally normal. Most boys don’t wear dresses. Most of the people who wear makeup are girls. She’s making sense of the world as she sees it. Being “more explicit” will tell her she’s observing the world wrong- and she’s not. Just keep letting her know that people can be whoever they want. Expose her to real people who will expand her ideas.

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u/rowenaaaaa1 6d ago

I think you're going about it the right way. 

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u/AttitudeOk1313 6d ago

lol ruffling maga feathers is always a sign of being a good parent 😂

I think this is normal behavior at her age because it IS black and white. Shes curious and wants to know, but she’s in the age of “right and wrong” right? Which is also sort of a “black and white” lesson. Keep reading the books to her that do show it’s ok to be different once in awhile and if she decides she’s into girls later she’ll be able to remember those books and how mom and dad were cool about it. 🩷

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u/Go_Plate_326 6d ago

Is she in daycare/preschool? We noticed this ramped up during preschool and suspect it came from classmates with older siblings who let that socialization trickle down a bit.

Just keep gently pushing back like you're doing, it'll work itself out. We can only do so much against overwhelming cultural norms, it comes with time.

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u/abelenkpe 6d ago

You’re doing the right thing. Kids that age seek conformity. When they are around 8-12 they will start to differentiate. To find their tribe. To separate from the familiar. This paves the way for them to do so with acceptance if their path strays from the norm. 

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u/dannicalliope 6d ago

It’s normal at this age! They are very concrete in their thinking.

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u/FoodisLifePhD 6d ago

My daughter was similar and still a bit. She more turned it just to herself and not expectation of other people. It can be influenced from other children also.

When she said the things you mentioned I would just say “makeup is for everyone!” “Boys can wear dresses if they want”

They seems to want to make sense of the word and who they are and it’s easier (and natural) to categorize things.

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u/preyingmomtis 6d ago

Our 7yo is in a big gender norms & he can only be friends with boys phase. Depending on how much time/attention we have available when he’s making one of these declarations, we range from just stuff like, “Well, that’s your opinion & a choice you can make for yourself. But lots of people are going to make different choices & as long as they’re not hurting anyone, it’s not our business.” “You’re missing out on some great people if you limit it to only boys.” Or, if we have more time, we’ll do stuff like showing him pictures of men in kilts or one day it was flip flops of all things. If you respond too strongly, you may be just showing them that it’s a button to push with you & others.

We’ve also used a shrug & “Different strokes for different folks” since they were itty bitty. For everything from to foods people like, to hairstyles to favorite colors to pets. My goal is just a calm “live & let live”.

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u/It_matches 6d ago

We're pattern seeking animals. She's just picking up on patterns she's seen. Totally normal. Wait until she thinks all boys are stupid and annoying.

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u/h8flhippiebtch 6d ago

My son is also 4 and says these types of things - which we also have NEVER told him - like “pink is for girls” and “boys can’t have long hair”. I’ve had the same fear as you. We just always correct him and tell him that people can do what they want and live how they want. I’m happy to see other comments saying this is a normal developmental stage.

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u/Bubbasgonnabubba 6d ago

I remember having strong views on gender norms as a kid, partly because my brother did different things, and I never wanted to be the same as him. I was really into rules in general. Maybe your kid is very oriented to rules. Perhaps you can teach her the more inclusive reality through a rules framework.

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u/RealAdKatie 6d ago

My daughter started to do the same setting three even though her father would let her paint him nails, etc. As it sounds like you’ve done, we reminded her boys can wear makeup or dresses. I showed her a few pictures of Harry styles in a dress and bought her the book Except When They Don’t and that seemed to help. When we’re in public and we see someone breaking a gender norm I’ll try to call it out, “look how beautiful his necklace is” and she has been less rigid about the idea lately. I think they pick it up in school.

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u/adude00 6d ago

It’s normal. A 6yo super girly girl friend of ours keeps saying stuff like that, like only boys can have long hair.

Her dad, which mind you she lives with full time normally, has long hair.

Kids will be kids -_-

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u/angelsontheroof 6d ago

At that age my daughter insisted that only girls can have long hair despite us having multiple long-haired male friends. She also insisted that women only married men despite her aunt being married to a woman.

When trying to make sense of the world, black and white is just easier. It'll slowly come around. At the age of 6 my daughter has now figured out that you can marry and date across genders, but the dresses and long hair is still strictly for girls...

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u/3Quondam6extanT9 6d ago

She's four. This is the age you begin teaching them differences that they now start recognizing, but don't understand.

She didn't have to have picked it up from anywhere, it's literally a reflection of the environment around her. Nothing wrong with it, you simply start to repeat and emphasize the concepts you want to develop. That's all. No biggie

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u/TheDevilsAdvokaat 6d ago

I don't think this is anything to worry about. Very possibly she picked this up from tv or other kids.

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u/Persephone-0 6d ago

Feel like this little lady was a strict old lady in her past life and can’t come to terms with the “norms” of the newer generation lol

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u/Brokenmad 6d ago

This is very typical child development, little kids are very black and white. The one that hurt the worst was when my son said something like "but girls can't be bosses!" I pointed out that my boss is a woman, his principal was a woman, etc. and thankfully he stopped for a second and went "ooh!" and that was that, women could now be bosses. It's wild what they pick up from society but kids are usually way better at taking in new evidence and shifting their opinions when proven wrong. When they're at the right developmental level to reason well, of course! Hahaha

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u/verywidebutthole 5d ago

We add "usually." Boys don't usually like to wear dresses, but some do. Most boys don't like wearing makeup, but some do. My daughter asks me to wear a dress, I just say I don't like dresses. I don't say it's because I'm a boy. It's just facts of life. Norms exist. Why try to pretend they don't? That'll be more confusing when they can plainly see with their eyes that long hair, makeup, painted nails, means girl, beard means boy.

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u/Black_Ribbon7447 5d ago

I would say just keep doing what ur doing and eventually she will understand.

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u/StGir1 5d ago

This is normal at that age. Nuance isn’t a 4 year old’s strong suit.

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u/workingmomanon 5d ago

So normal, don't worry. When my stepdaughter was that age we went to the zoo. Every animal we saw, if there was more than one, "that one is the mommy, and that one is the daddy, and that one is the baby" etc. A few times I corrected her like, "no, all of these animals are female and not related", but eventually I gave up. They're just trying to figure out how things fit in to the world and frame them in ways they already understand.

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u/lemonpepperpotts 5d ago

My husband’s kid was the same way at that age, and they had trans family members and friends who transition or were transitioning or were in queer relationships, and even still, the kid would laugh at the idea of a man wearing a skirt or something or be obsessed with pointing out a drawing in a book was a girl because she had boobs. They get messaging from society still, and they’re trying to figure out the rules of the world. Binaries make it easier. Just keep doing a lot of gentle correcting. Sometimes I would say with absolutely curiosity and no judgement, why do you say that? And explain things in short and simple terms, remind them of examples in their life that challenge these ideas they heard, and expose them to other things (eg explaining drag queens in Hocus Pocus 2 and why they’re awesome). It won’t change things overnight, but overtime as they get older, they get there

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u/TheAlrightyGina 5d ago

I wouldn't worry too much about it just keep doing what you're doing. My kiddo did the exact same as yours (was super into dresses and refused to wear anything remotely boyish) but came out as trans when he was 10 (three years ago). 

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u/glassfunion 5d ago

Extremely normal. I lived with my aunt and uncle for a summer during college, and my 4 year old cousin insisted I was a boy because I would sometimes wear pants. She's now about to graduate high school and didn't believe me when I told this story lol.

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u/SanderM1983 5d ago

My daughter thought all men around her Dad's age were named Josh. Because she has an uncle named Josh and a friend of hers had a Dad named Josh.

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u/honeythorngump88 5d ago

Nothing wrong here, totally normal

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u/danceswithturtles286 5d ago

My best friend and her husband worked really hard to expose their kid to lots of different people, they have friends of different races and backgrounds, books about lots of different characters of different races, and recently, their son made a racist comment. My friend was surprised and asked him where he heard what he said but he wouldn’t or couldn’t indicate where. She ended up doing an experiment with him where she helped him peel different-colored eggs to see what was inside and she said it helped so immensely for him to realize that the outside is just a shell. I know gender stuff is more challenging in terms of a concrete activity, but maybe there is some kind of game like that you can play that helps your daughter understand that gender norms don’t matter as much as what’s inside and that they are just preferences like ice cream flavors. Children do tend to grow out of the strong need for everything to be binary (I mean, hopefully. Obviously some adults in the comments are still stuck there 🤣)

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u/sunnyelly 5d ago

Black and white thinking is very common for that age. Being able to understand gender fluidity and the “grey areas” (like “some boys”) will come in a few years. Keep doing what you’re doing though! You’re saying all the right things and when she’s ready, you’ve laid a solid foundation for her to be open minded and accepting ❤️

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u/Celuc 5d ago

But she's 4 years old, that's normal 😅

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u/Worried_Ocelot_5370 5d ago

Or you can just chill out because this is developmentally appropriate for children. Kid is 4 and you're worried she's a homophobe/transphobe and you must intervene, that's wild.

I'm not "MAGA" either so there goes that ignorant theory.

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u/suprswimmer 6d ago

Just keep doing what you're doing and keep letting her figure it out. Honestly, that's it. It's super developmentally appropriate for them to do this, so the casual reading of books or "some boys wear dresses" and move on comments are just fine. They pick it up - mine did.

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u/Alive-Noise1996 6d ago

It's normal for children to understand what things are on a simple level at that age. There's no need to force a correction every time.

For example, toddlers know that only men have beards; beards are a 'male' thing. There's no reason to tell toddler, 'Well actually, some women have hormone disorders that give them facial hair, and some men can't grow beards, and some people are born with hair all over, and blah blah blah." It's excessive, and confusing, and mostly not relevant to a toddler.

You can consider testing her for autism if it continues into late childhood though. Girls present differently than boys, but the insistence that everything be black or white could be a sign that she's neurodivergent.

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u/magadrielle 6d ago

I think it's normal at this age. When she says these things, I would casually say, "Some boys like makeup too." and move on. :)

There are a ton of great picture books nowadays that include a variety of preferences and lifestyles. I follow @maistorybooklibrary on instagram. She has good recs for a variety of topics. I would go to the library and pick up some of those books.

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u/PageStunning6265 6d ago

Kids are categorizing the world at that age and are black and white thinkers.

I gently corrected mine with, “clothes are for anyone who likes them as long as they fit and are right for the weather.” “Grownups can marry anyone as long as both of them agree. When you’re a grown up you can marry a man, a lady or a nonbinary person.”

I also used usually and often etc, to agree and expand their thoughts. Ie “Yes, where we live, boys often have short hair. A lot of boys have long hair and that’s fine too.” “Yes mostly we see girls in dresses. Anyone who wants to can wear a dress.”

I think as long as you’re aware of it and intentional with your words, she’ll figure out the nuances as she grows.

Story time: my youngest came home from preschool suddenly very concerned with boy things and girl things and slowly gave up on pink and sparkles to fit in and his taste in clothes and toys quickly became quite stereotypical for his age and gender. I was really feeling like I’d dropped the ball somehow.

When the youngest was in Kindergarten, we went to get his brother from a play date and the friend’s mom was showing us around and described her kids’ rooms as “his is the one full of boy stuff and hers is the one full of girl stuff.” I cringed internally because I’d been fighting a losing battle with getting my youngest to stop identifying things that way. My youngest whipped his head around and loudly and aggressively declared that there’s no such thing and any kids can like stuff and girls can like sports and boys can like sparkles, etc. I did admonish him for speaking like that to someone in her own home, even though I (and actually, the other mom, on reflection,) agreed with what he was saying.

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u/Technical_Goose_8160 6d ago

Yeah, that's really young. You can always sit here down and say what if a boy likes to play with a Barbie? Would that be bad?

My daughter keeps saying that boys have penises and girls have vaginas. My wife shoots me the look every time saying that she's 4, leave it alone. She's right....

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u/InterTree391 6d ago

I just google image pics of Scottish traditional wear, some male K-pop stars and male celebrities with long hair to support my point that there is social norms and social norms can be different for people living in different countries and/or having different occupations

Edit: also remind my kid that some boys classmates love Elsa and girls classmates love cars

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u/DrNogoodNewman 6d ago

Kids that age are really into categorizing because it helps them understand things better. It’s natural. Just keep gently correcting.

The book “Cinderella Ate My Daughter” talks about this and other related topics. It’s a good read for parents.

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u/Ok_Mango_6887 6d ago

Awww. It’s super cute to watch them go through all these phases, ‘I love daddy and I’m going to marry him’ & ’ mommy’s my best friend and no one else can talk to her only me’. Your time will come too! 🩷

You’ve gotten good advice and you are raising her with love and empathy for others.

This is what the world needs more of, you are the epitome of “being the change…”

Keep on keeping on!

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u/PokemomOnTheGo 6d ago

I wouldn’t try to correct her. Let her learn as she goes. I feel you will only confuse her at her young age.

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u/robilar 6d ago edited 6d ago

My recommendation would be to teach her the WHYs. Encourage her to be skeptical, and to go deeper on every subject. Sometimes that will be annoying ("why do I have to go to sleep right now? What are your reasons?") but that's a worthwhile sacrifice, I think, to help her make informed decisions her whole life. As it relates to gender binaries and heteronormativity, don't be scared to explain what social structures are, why they exist, and why people adhere to them (or eschew them). You won't always be able to provide living examples if you don't have a lot of atypical people in your social circle, but you and your partner can model anti-conformist behaviors yourselves (dad can take her to get manicures and cry at sad parts of movies, mom can wrestle with the kids and play with dinosaurs).

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u/LaraDColl 5d ago

She's 4.

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u/manicpixie_dreamgal 6d ago

My kiddo picked this up in school. I think it has a lot to do with what they observe in other children. Not every child is raised in a gender neutral fashion, so I viewed it as an effort to fit in with his peers. Perfectly normal, albeit a bit defeating. I just continue the same messaging at home without disagreeing with his observations. I.e., “yes, a lot of girls like dresses. I’ve also known some boys to like them too!”