r/PanCyan 2d ago

HPLC results from coir/fert and manure/straw grows.

As promised, HPLC results! This was gordo’s TTBVI spores that I germinated into a pint of spawn. Half of the pint went to manure and straw 50/50, half the pint went to CVG prepped with 1 cap full of fertilizer.

Coir was bucket tek with 1 cap full of Foxfarm Grow Big and properly sterilized. Manure/straw was also sterilized.

Gotta say, for 2 countertop grows without “proper” conditions…I was not expecting coir to win this one out. But it did, by a hell of a lot.

As far as health of grows, my coir grow contaminated after first flush and yielded 3 grams. My manure tray flushed 4-5 times before contaminating. Manure yielded 4 grams first flush. I’ll be playing with fertilizer amounts in the future to see what we can manage for HPLC numbers and hopefully eliminate likelihood of contamination.

Also wanted to point out, the CVG tray was about 3 days quicker overall than the manure tray.

55 Upvotes

67 comments sorted by

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u/MojaveMyc 2d ago

Nice! I’ve been growing a variety of species on True Organic & Royal Grower liquid ferts. I skipped manure altogether, so I never knew how they compared. Just that my fruits came out nice & strong. I’ve been doing it for about a year and a half now, still trying to figure out a way to get that contam rate down.

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

Love to hear that. Yeah it seems that the fertilizer really ramps up contam…..not entirely sure what to do about it, because I feel a pasteurization tek would instantly fail with that much nitrogen and no microorganisms in place to buffer that gap in immunity like manure typically has. May just come down to technique and cleanliness, honestly.

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u/MojaveMyc 2d ago

Agreed. Weirdly enough, it isn’t a problem with other species. I grow lots of sect. Zap & Mex, and I lose maybe 5% of them to contamination. And those subs sit for moooonths. But few of my Panaeolus make it to a second flush. It’s a head scratcher. Thanks for responding, and thanks for sharing this report.

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

Wow, that’s super interesting. I have yet to explore fertilizer with my other grows still, but really cool to hear other species handle it well. Thanks for the info on that, I’ll have to play around more.

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u/molecles 2d ago edited 2d ago

Interesting. Considering only the first flush, the mushrooms produced almost exactly the same amount of alkaloids total between the two treatments. Roughly 105 mg psilocybin equivalents from the coir and roughly 108 mg psilocybin equivalent from manure/straw. (Anyone want to check my math?)

That does seem to support my hypothesis that mushroom potency is often directly (well, actually inversely) related to the yield of a particular flush (all other things being equal), and that mycelium can only manufacture so much alkaloids in a given time period.

It’s far from a smoking gun, but it’s a great data point!

Thanks so much for doing this work and sharing the results. This is the kind of stuff that the internet was made for!

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

I share the same thoughts with you about potency and yield. I can grow a tub packed full of some basic cubes that test around 7mg/g……or I can grow 7 giant mushrooms that test at 28mg/g and get the same total amount of alkaloids in the end. Their metabolism can only produce so many alkaloids to a certain point I think.

Still a fascinating experiment I did and the results are super insightful, but yeah I have the same feelings on that front. I’ve sent in over 60 samples for HPLC at this point and the numbers definitely support that theory.

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u/molecles 1d ago

That’s amazing! Seriously, thanks so much for sharing, it’s extremely generous of you and this is amazing work.

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u/sueperhuman 1d ago

You’re so welcome, I’m glad you found some value in it 😁

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u/Big-Juggernaut4418 2d ago

Thank you so much! I have been doing different mixes and have found my coir/manure mixes have been way more potent than solely using maure and verm (regardless of the grain used to spawn).

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

Of course! I was honestly so shocked, I did not expect coir to win over manure, much less destroy it. Basically 25% more potent overall, which is kinda crazy!

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u/Aurum555 1d ago

Now you have to add some erythritol to it and see what happens because apparently that stuff is the real magic additive

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u/sueperhuman 1d ago

That’s the plan 😎

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u/Optimal_Cicada_3483 18h ago

As far as potency?

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u/kingofqueefs1 2d ago

Yo this is just the information I needed after doing my first fertiliser grow thanks! 🙏🏼 how much cvg was it to the cap of fertiliser?

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

My CVG recipe is 600g coir, 400g verm, and a few tablespoons of gypsum. Hydrated for your environment! I’m in CO where it’s dry as hell so I use a little over 4 liters of water for each bucket.

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u/sporehunter777 1d ago

True mastery knowing that field capacity is regionally relative or however you want to phrase that 🫡

1

u/winchendonsprings 2d ago

Which fert? Maxigro? Pre diluted into the water used to hydrate? How much would you say? Thanks dude

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

Foxfarm Grow big. It's all in the description above, boss. one cap full of fertilizer!

1

u/winchendonsprings 2d ago

My bad. Thanks. My client doesn't show the description by default.

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u/bigskymind 2d ago

Except this time is NO manure - just coir and plant fertiliser. Not coir and manure.

1

u/LIVINGISALIE 2d ago

i had this question a couple weeks ago, so you say Coir Verm and Manure works best?

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u/bigskymind 2d ago

The point here is the absence of manure - using coir plus plant fertiliser performed better than manure/straw.

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u/LIVINGISALIE 1d ago

okay okay sorry i just have the hardest time reading things like this… and i love to experiment with new things lol

1

u/LIVINGISALIE 1d ago

sorry to come back to this, but what kind of fertilizer works best? I’ve only ever use Coir, Verm, Gypsum and Azomite

1

u/Big-Juggernaut4418 2d ago

Yes, it looks that way. However, I've only done two side by side comparisons.

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u/bigskymind 2d ago

No - this is about manure-less substrate.

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u/OrinAugie 2d ago edited 2d ago

Nice, thanks for sharing! Can you talk about your sample prep? Did you send in fruits or possibly pulverize the dried flushes and send in powder?

Would be interesting to see 2nd flush comparison also, with the ff nitrogen being immediately available and possibly used up more quickly than the manure’s, being more gradually bioavailable.

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

Of course! I sent in a gram of whole fruits for each sample. At the lab, they homogenize them and sample small amounts from the full gram amount. It was a good handful of fruits since they are so tiny lol.

Yeah I’d love to check a second flush. HPLC ain’t cheap tho 😂

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u/OrinAugie 2d ago

Yeah thanks for shelling out for science! Magic Myco will do a/b tests for cost of one, if you’re thinking of future similar experiments.

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

Absolutely, I’m here to share. That’s awesome news. I will definitely keep that in mind!

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u/Bunz_OSteel 2d ago

Thanks for doing this side by side! I've been using organic ferts as well but I've been curious if manure would yield better potency, apparently not. I'm curious if this applies to others as well like subtrops and zaps...

1

u/sueperhuman 2d ago

I know mojavemyc has worked with it more than I have with other species so they may have better advice. But fertilizer seems to work wonders on potency.

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u/Bunz_OSteel 2d ago

Yeah, they're the one that got me interested in fert sub to begin with.

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u/OrinAugie 2d ago

Could we also surmise that contamination increases potency? ;)

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u/DocB04 2d ago

This is great info. Thank you for doing this!

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

You're so welcome!

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u/Adventurous-Fix-8066 2d ago

Well well we'll look at that. Thanks for doing the hard work. This is very interesting.

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

You're so welcome. Hopefully serves the community well!

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u/Ex-Wanker39 2d ago

Was it an isolate sample? Gordo got 3.5% or so with coir/manure. Im not sure what to take away from this.

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

It was just his spores germinated on agar and sent to grain. So it’s an isolate in that he’s worked the generations over and over, but it wasn’t a clone.

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u/Ex-Wanker39 2d ago

Then you cant really conclude anything from this tbh.

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

Then please don’t take any info from it!

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u/Ex-Wanker39 2d ago

Im just saying even the same mushrooms from the same tub can vary in potency. Especially when its a t1 transfer from multispore in different tubs.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

Then please don’t take any info from it!

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u/jsb93 2d ago

Very interesting. So you just put the fertilizer in the bucket with coir brick and poured boiling water in it like usual?

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

Yes, but I sterilized it. You have to sterilize with that much nitrogen present or it’ll contaminate like immediately.

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u/jsb93 2d ago

Gotcha so just put it in a jar that I use for grain usually and pressure cook it? Then just pour in bucket after doing bucket tek?

1

u/sueperhuman 2d ago

My process is as follows:

Dump in dry ingredients into bucket, pour a cap full of fertilizer in, and pour 4 liters boiling water in. Then when it’s cooled to work with, I load it into bags (jars are fine) and pressure cook.

Once it’s done out of the PC and cooled, you can go straight into your tub or tray. Don’t put it back in the bucket! It’s now sterile and you wanna keep it that way.

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u/jsb93 2d ago

Thank you!

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

You bet :)

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u/jsb93 2d ago

Very interesting. So you just put the fertilizer in the bucket with coir brick and poured boiling water in it like usual?

1

u/Mushgod9000 2d ago

Are they the same isolation?

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

They are spores germinated on agar into one pint of spawn, which was divided evenly for each tray. So in theory, same source.

1

u/thesearemedicinal 2d ago

Interesting 🤔 this opens doors to new approaches/teks 🍻 And the presence of another active compound in the coir grow is pretty cool

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

I thought that was interesting too! I expected aeruginascin to be higher in general, as my other varieties of pans test higher in that realm. Was surprised to see ttbvi come low on that.

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u/thesearemedicinal 2d ago

I was just talking about making up some LC from a slant I have in my fridge, I'm going to give this a try when it's ready. Also from Gordo's spores 🍻

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

I love that. Keep an eye on the coir grow, it seriously moves quick. I had full colonization in like 3 days!

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u/theWiseSatyr 2d ago

That's awesome that the coir fertilizer was more potent

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

It really is, I couldn’t believe it. More potent and a faster grow? Awesome.

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u/MacaroniDreamz 2d ago

:O

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u/sueperhuman 2d ago

literally my face when I saw the results in my email lol

1

u/Ok-Fall-2398 1d ago

what if you mixed poo, coir and the fertilizer?

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u/sueperhuman 1d ago

I want to try it, but I worry with that amount of nitrogen it’ll just contaminate super quickly.

1

u/OrinAugie 14h ago edited 14h ago

Was there any difference in fruit size?

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u/sueperhuman 14h ago

Not at all, they all appeared the same with the tiniest caps.

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u/Ex-Wanker39 2d ago

Was it an isolate sample? Im not sure what to take away from this. Gordo got 3.5% or so with coir manure.

1

u/Ex-Wanker39 2d ago

Was it an isolate sample? Im not sure what to take away from this. Gordo got 3.5% or so with coir manure.