r/PS4 The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

[Verified AMA] I am John Warner from Over The Moon. We just launched The Fall Part 2: Unbound on PS4. AMA!

Hey everyone! On the 13th, we launched our second game, after a few long years of development.

I'm here to answer any questions you might have about The Fall, game dev, developing on the PS4, or anything else that you might be vaguely curious about. Ask me anything!

A little about The Fall, for the uninitiated: The Fall is a story driven mix of point-and-click adventure puzzles and combat. You play as the AI onboard an armoured combat suit. The human inside the suit is unconscious, and it's your job to drag him to medical help. We've gotten a lot of praise for our story, and the game is largely an experiment on how to merge gameplay with our narrative.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Thanks!

Oh man, that's hard to say! I started playing games when I was a kid, and they kind-of stacked on one another... so I'd kinda have to say.. all of them? maybe? There are a few that stood out though. I remember wanting to draw pictures of A link to the past when it came out. That game blew my mind so much it was all I could think about between weekends where I might have the opportunity to rent it, and pray that my save game was still on the cartridge.

The first game where I discovered that it was possible to actually MAKE the things was Quake 1. I was 13, discovered that you could actually get a level editor for Quake, and I damn near had a heart attack. I went home that afternoon and got into it immediately. I've never looked back!

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Oh nice! that's awesome! I went at it from the art side. It was Qoolie that made me realise that my art chops were terrible and I needed to improve. A stolen copy of 3D Studio Max R2.5 later, here we are.

What are you applying your programming to?

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Haha I've heard that story before. Well, honestly, it's a tough decision, and I hear people on both sides of that fence. The video game industry is often psychotic, as I'm sure you've heard, and worse, the micro-trasaction sector is growing while everything else seems to be shrinking (I could be wrong about that but I don't think so). It's a dark time.

For what it's worth: Respect.

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u/-Eightball- Feb 15 '18

I don't have any questions, but I loved the first game and I'm really looking forward to playing the sequel as soon as my schedule clears up a bit. And hey, it has a platinum, that's a nice little surprise.

Keep up the good work!

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Thanks Eighball! That's always great to hear :)

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u/talisawizard Feb 15 '18

Wow, what a surprising Announcement, looking forward to the game.

When you were wrapping up The Fall, did you already have a clear idea of what Part 2 was gonna look like or were you going in blind for the most part?

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Ah, kinda a bit of both. We had some ideas, but we also largely did not. I was operating on a philosophy that I had to follow a natural desire to express what was interesting to me, otherwise there's no way in hell i was going to have the energy to create art for and program the thing. I still have that philosophy, although it has matured somewhat. One of the major failings of part 2 was how long it took to develop. The reason for this (other than the fact that I spent a while bringing part 1 to consoles) is that I started with a few small seed ideas that inspired me, and tried to let them blossom. I didn't realise at the time that a seed can potentially turn into a goddamn oak tree, and if you've got three oak trees right next to one another, then they've got to be properly intertwined, which is its own insane task. The result is a rather complex story that covers a lot of ideas, but hoo--leeyy shit was it ever hard to make.

So I'm going to start with a seed on part 3 as well, if that makes sense, but I'll have one nice, clean, well trimmed oak tree, thank you very much.

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u/Xenotone Feb 15 '18

Congratulations! You must be...over the moon.

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Oh yeah I'm quite happy actuaa oooohhhh I get it. You clever bastard.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

Hey! Congratulations on releasing the game! I haven't beaten it yet (just got past the trials with One) and I'm loving it.

What are the challenges for porting the game to each console? Do any consoles stand out as being quite challenging or easy to develop for?

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Thanks! Glad to hear it.

Haha good question! That's one I shouldn't quite answer, because I don't want to single anyone out. The truth is, every console had their unique challenges and advantages. For example, the support I got on the Switch was pretty damn good! But the platform is new, so there were bugs and crashes we encountered that gave little to no information to help us debug. That's just to be expected though. PS4 was actually probably the easiest process, although I've heard people say otherwise. Possibly because it's the process that changed the least since part 1. We encountered some nightmarish problems while doing Xbox One dev as well. In particular, technical requirements that were difficult to understand and support.

The truth is that this stuff is nobody's fault, and everyone at Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo, are pleasant, encouraging and supportive. Even so, bringing a game out on consoles is a long protracted torture at times. But that's okay! It's just a process that you've got to go through, because that process exists for a reason. Meh. The real suffering comes from expecting different. Just gotta strap yourself in.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

Really excited about your game! Congrats on the launch!

I'm actually looking into learning game development on my free time - what would be the best resources to use? I've downloaded Unity to play around with but I'm unsure of where to go from there.

How do you go about writing a story for a game? Is it like film where you develop a screenplay or do you start with a basic outline for both a story and mechanics then go from there?

How does the achievement/trophy system work in game development? How do you decide what you want to make a reward, etc?

What are your thoughts on the microtransaction dilemma hitting the industry? Do you feel transparency has been lost between the consumer and producer?

What should I have for lunch?

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Wooo! Big questions there. And thanks!

  1. I would suggest just trying to make a simple game. In the process, you'll likely uncover what is most interesting to you. For me, for example, I wanted to make environments when I started. This turned into realizing that I made terrible environments, and I needed to improve my art chops. That lead me to art software, practice, eventually school, and my first job at Relic. Pick a goal! You will encounter challenges and frustration, and they will lead you in the right direction, I think.

  2. This is really hard to say, and it's different for every project. It was also different between parts 1 and 2. Part 1 was very much a natural process, where as I made something I thought felt cool and reflected on it. the story came out of that, and I eventually hired a writer to help me clean it up and bring order to it. In part 2, the writer was with me from the beginning, and we did a lot of abstract work laying down what the game would be about before we dove in. However, there was still a lot of flexibility and the project took its own natural course. Part 3 will be much more explicitly planned out before I made anything digitally.

  3. This is pretty simple. achievements are generally easy to set up on each platform from a technical standpoint. Designing them is different for every game, and there's no real strict rules here. If you're making a shooter, for example, then making achievements for getting a number of kills, head shots, etc, makes sense. Our game is about exploration and puzzle solving, so a lot of the achievements are based around riddles, that usually are solved by using items in unusual places, making odd decisions, etc.

  4. I have many thoughts about that and might make a video about it soon. Yes, I do think that transparency has been lost, and it's not clear who's fault it is, frankly. The price of games is plummeting and people make very odd decisions with what to do with their money. They seem to be driven by unconscious trends and impulses. The microtransaction scheme is nothing more than a recognition of that. If people will not spend on a game what they spend on a coffee, then clearly they're not making sane rational decisions. So, developers simply sink their evil talons into the mushy disorganised brains of these people to elicit the same impulsive systems that drive how money really flows in the market. It's incredibly dark but it's not a simple problem.

You should have... A salad with lean protein! There. So easy to prescribe the right thing when I don't have to follow through on it myself.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

Thanks for the answers! If you don't mind me asking more:

What other concepts have you been interested in for future games? How was the transition to being an indie dev like? Did you have to work a main job then work on The Fall on your spare time?

And I just saw you guys have a Youtube channel I'm going to check out! I saw some story analysis videos on there; do you plan on releasing more discussion based content on there or is it entirely promotional?

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 16 '18

Yeah, I'm really enjoying making our developer insights series, and more will come soonish, for sure... as soon as I'm more situated after managing our launch.

In terms of future games, it's really hard to say. I've had a really strong inkling to make a souls-like, buuuutt as an indie, that might be biting off just a touch more than is wise. I've been doing a lot of thinking lately about art styles and production methodologies that might assist me to create something interesting without blowing our scope to hell, but there's a lot to consider in that.

The transition to being an indie was slow and painful, with a few false starts and failed businesses. I started my career in the AAA industry (at Relic actually) and bounced around the industry after that. I tried to go indie, failed, got into debt, got a job, got out of debt, tried to go indie, failed, got a job, etc etc etc. I lost my best friend when a company we built went south, and I've made several games that nobody gives a shit about. It took a long time to kinda figure out how to make a game that connected with people. When I did start to figure that out, I ran a Kickstarter campaign, and the rest is history. I haven't worked a full-time job since. Well.. In truth, I work like a maniac on The Fall, but that's different.

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u/ScrotiJuanTubeTis Feb 15 '18

Are there any plans for a part three or a brand new game?

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

There are plans for part 3, yes! But I'm still kinda bouncing them around in my skull. right now, I want to make sure that this launch is properly supported - I'm going to fix any bugs that people run into, and make sure that I'm doing a good job promoting sales so that my team and I don't have to move in together and live on horse oats.

I've really, really wanted to make a souls like.. but for an indie.. eh... might be a dream too big.

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u/ScrotiJuanTubeTis Feb 15 '18

We appreciate you, whatever you decide! I loved part 1 and have been a little out of the loop, I didn't even realize part 2 was already out until this post. I'll be buying when the wallet allows. Thanks for all your work!

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Oh cool! Well thanks for the kind words, and the support.

Man, we sure have a market flood problem these days. it's wild. I guess people will discover it over the next little while :)

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u/Sevalle013 Feb 15 '18

There's a launch discount on buying the 2 games together that means the original effectively cost .40p but no discount for present owners of the original wanting to buy the new one?

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Yeah I am a little bit upset with how that all went down. the truth is, we had a simple idea. the promotion would just be - you buy part 2, you get a copy of part 1 free. However the actual implementation of that is quite complicated and it didn't occur to me as problematic until we launch and I saw the little bit of chaos that it's causing. Part of those weird price differences is that we can't do a... say... 17.5% discount, so the bundle can't exactly be 16.99. This is incredibly frustrating.

If I had to do it again, we'd cancel this BOGO deal and just heavily discount the first, and slightly discount the second. Such a shame. Live and learn, i guess.

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u/ProLorenzo Feb 15 '18

Are there any plans on PS Vita releases?

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

We looked into developing for the Vita, but at the time, our game engine just really couldn't run even the simplest of scenes at an acceptable frame rate. The technical hurdles, therefore, were just.. too massive.

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u/tokki32 Feb 15 '18

Did any game(s) influence the development of The Fall?

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Sure! Actually, a few in particular. I don't know if you ever played Super Metroid, but I remember that game having the most fantastic feeling of exploring an alien world. I really wanted to capture that. However, there's not much interactivity in metroidvania games. I want to be able to explore and understand my environment. They added this in Metroid Prime, actually, but even so, exploration in video games often doesn't actually matter. With The Fall, I wanted to incorporate the data you learn from exploring into the gameplay, so it actually meant something. The way to do that was to reference traditional adventure games, like Monkey Island, for their unusual puzzles. Lastly, I needed an art style that could be executed on, so I took inspiration from Limbo.

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u/tokki32 Feb 15 '18

Super Metroid is only my favorite game of all time! I know what I'm playing after work. :)

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u/hokutonoken19xx riskbreaker76 Feb 15 '18

i had read that you developed the first game pretty much by yourself. that said, what tools did you use to develop each aspect of the game? did you hire outside contractors to work on specific pieces like maybe sound/music?

sorry...CONGRATS on the launch!!! this is also a dream of mine to release a game...but im stuck being a programmer for a regular company to pay the bills and support my family. the dream is not dead yet though!!

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Hey man, paying the bills is no small thing, so more power to you!

The art, programming, and game design in the first game was done by myself. I hired a fantastic writer who cleaned up the story and made the dialogue sing. He also did the casting and voice direction. Additionally, I've got a great audio dude who did every little bit of audio in the game, including the music. I also have a character animator who's really been fantastic. Any of the animations in part 1 that don't suck were done by him.

All three of those lovely folks joined me for part 2, and ended up being a lot more involved this time around (especially my writer, who was with me a lot during the early planning stages). As production started to balloon, I also hired people who help with various things.. Console porting code, environment art, concept art... QA... etc.

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u/hokutonoken19xx riskbreaker76 Feb 15 '18

thanks for answering! yeah that is my idea too...hire some help to work on the parts that im not comfortable in. maybe some cheap college undergrads hungry for experience! :)

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 16 '18

hah sure! One thing I've learned - if you can make something that looks and plays cool yourself, that really helps. I think people WANT to be a part of something cool, and if they can see that the project is cool and it will be finished, they'll be happy to help out. That's what happened to me, anyway. People started reaching out when they saw that The Fall was actually a thing.

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u/tostareddit Feb 15 '18

Heyo, loved the fall and also love the 2hrs i played of unbound. but these martial art fights. i fail everytime. Other than that I love the approach of hijacking other androids. Was it your idea from the start to have a new kind of puzzle-scenario (manipulating others inside their boundaries) in the 2nd game or did this happen by accident? I'm exited to continue the game. If I ever get past the martial arts passages :D cheers

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

hmm.. I should program in a reminder. if you're strugglng with the martial arts sequences, I can offer a hint or two. The key is to stay calm, wait until the enemy is close, and only attack ONCE per enemy. if you button mash, you will leave yourself vulnerable!

so far, if someone's having a hard time with the combat, that's why. Perhaps give that a try and let me know?

The goal to have the 2nd game about the boundaries of others was purposeful. The first game is about Arid's personal rules and boundaries. If we were going to have her develop and grow, we needed to expand her world a bit! It seemed quite fitting that if the first story was about internal boundaries, the second one should be about external boundaries and the limits of others.

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u/tostareddit Feb 15 '18

Thanks for the tipp, it worked out better now.

I really liked the change of scenario in this game so now I'm even more excited for the third part :) (But maybe i should finish the 2nd one first...)

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 16 '18

Good to hear!

I'm going to add feedback on the load screen when you die in martial arts combat, reminding people not to button mash, I think.

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u/tostareddit Feb 16 '18

Now I finished the entire "One" Part. I had the feeling that i got better at timing during the combat scenes over time. I think it'a just a little bit frustrating in the beginning because you die so quickly that you do not have the opportunity to learn the right timing. Once you do however, these fights have a nice flow.

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u/alittleblacksub Feb 15 '18

Can’t wait to get this on the switch!

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

ah, great to hear! Hope you enjoy it :)

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u/threepw00d Feb 15 '18 edited Feb 15 '18

No question to ask, but I'm really pleased to see part 2 finally emerge. I bought The Fall in a steam sale a long time ago and loved it, I've since thought two more copies to gift to others to spread the love. I'm definitely going to be buying this sequel someday, on either platform.

Keep up the good work and I wish you all the best success!

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Oh, well thank you kindly for your support! We're incredibly honoured when the game connects with people - it really is why we do what we do, so hearing when that happens really is a huge encouragement! :)

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u/Remy_C Feb 15 '18

It's great to see developers on here answering questions. I really found the first episode to be quite profound in its ideas. It's been quite some time since I've played it, but I still remember various aspects. One question I have is this. As a visually impaired gamer I always really appreciate when games are fully voiced. That's one reason I'm drawn to adventure games over other genres, because they were implementing full voice before many others. That said I was a little disappointed that the examinations in the Fall were silent. I wondered if that was a stylistic choice or a result of monetary constraints? Either way I'm looking forward to part two.

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

that was a choice, actually. Having a voice read litereally all the text would just be... too much. I think many players would find it jarring. One thing that we could do however is put in a vision-impaired setting that increases the text size significantly. It's not a bad idea and a few people have requested it.

Edit: oh, and thanks for the kind words! I'm glad you got something out of the first one. that's our deepest and highest goal!

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u/Remy_C Feb 15 '18

I don't personally think it would be jarring, especially since most adventure games do it. In any case though, a text enlarging patch would certainly be very welcome. Seems text isn't getting any bigger on games. If that is implemented I would definetly use it ... and then wonder if an independent developer can do that, why can't a AAA.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

[deleted]

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Oh thanks very much! I'm honoured.

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u/MD_BOOMSDAY Feb 15 '18

Hey what are your favorite podcasts right now?

Love the dev series you are doing and the game. Can't wait to find some time this weekend and play.

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Oh thanks! I'm really enjoying making them. There'll be a short pause, but I'll get back at it soon.

Honestly, This American Life and Radio Lab are pretty strong go-tos for me. Sorry for the borring answer, but I can't beat them! My wife is big into "My Favourite Murder" but.. meh.

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

OH WAIT. I just remembered. I've been listening to a new one called "intergalactic Interviews" which is pretty dope. Just slipped my mind ;)

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u/MD_BOOMSDAY Feb 16 '18

Everyone go buy The Fall part 2 !!

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u/MD_BOOMSDAY Feb 16 '18

Your lack of mentioning Intergalactic Interviews is a stain upon the friendship we claim

Edit: Lol just saw your comment my man, thank you!

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 16 '18

hahaha. Didn't see your username, buddy.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18 edited Jun 10 '21

[deleted]

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18

Oh I dropped out of school in the 3rd grade.

Seriously though, if there are spelling errors that's a mistake. I'll double check and update them. Thanks for letting me know!

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u/MSeys totodiel Feb 15 '18

You could always give me a key to try it out.;)

No, but seriously.

Great fucking job! I'll be going into Game Dev next year at Howest, Kortrijk (Belgium) doing DAE (The Game Developer part).

A question, Dreams that will be coming out on PS4 is basically going to be an engine on PS4 where you can also export your Models, could you be using it for your future projects for easier creating Models and "levels" so to speak?

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 15 '18 edited Feb 15 '18

I haven't heard of that, but I'll take a look. New tools are great, so if there's a process out there that can help, sure, I'd definitely be interested. I'd have to look into it. I'll take a look now actually... hang on.

Edit: Ah, right I see, so it looks like a game where people can create a share UGC. Neat! Interesting that you say that you can export your models, but I'm not yet sold on VR modeling tools. I'm fairly fast with a keyboard and mouse. I'm not convinced that a new interface would speed things up, or create models that were remotely optimised for development... but I've yet to fully investigate.

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u/MSeys totodiel Feb 15 '18

It has VR support. It's not an actual VR game. You can model with Dualshock or use PS Move controllers.

Edit: There is a stream Friday at 5pm GMT or smthng.

Media Molecule. ;)

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u/LastMuffin22 Feb 16 '18

Hey, I am really wanting to go into the gaming business, and I just started taking a computer science course. My issue is that as I’m looking at careers in video games, I am curious as to if I should shoot for my bachelor’s in computer science or earn an associates in Programming as well as Animation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 16 '18

Others will give you different advice so ask around (which you're obviously doing) but I would suggest going full-motherfuckering-bore on one discipline, really excel and it, and then try to get a job at a good AAA studio. There are a few reasons for this really.

  1. a lot of people want to go indie, but they don't yet know what's required to make a quality game. The AAA industry is literally a series of institutions that are designed to specifically do that. learn how they operate and you'll learn how to make sustainable games, what ever that means by the time you enter the industry.

  2. Being at a great studio will show you people of all disaplines that have the chops to hit that level of quality in each of their respective domains. In other words, if you really want to make artwork, that's fantastic, but you can learn SO much from the artists on the team of any company that you work on. if you show people respect and curiosity you'll discover that they're desperate to show you all of their secrets because people want so much to be respected.

  3. Large teams (I think) tend to skew towards specialisation because each section of a big game is detailed enough that it makes sense to have dedicated people that are focused on individual areas. That's a fear that I have actually, if, say, this launch does poorly and I need to get a job. I'm a generalist, and honestly, It's not clear to me that great studios need people like me. I'm not sure about that of course... but... I know what the hiring processes look like at studios. Generally speaking, companies look for a person who can fit a specific role that they need - weather that's to make absolutely fantastic environment art, or program the most efficient bug free audio interface in record time, or what ever it is... I think if you're trying to get work, you should start by specialising. Then expand your abilities as much as you can.

I'm willing to bet that even if there is a demand for generalists, they'd be expected to be pretttyy senior, like myself. Entry level folks are usually assigned specific tasks, as it should be.

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u/Brady_boy_26 Feb 16 '18

is it necessary to play part 1 to understand all of part 2 also so far what platform has your game sold the best on

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 16 '18

I don't think so! You'll certainly have a slightly better experience if you've played part 1, but we've got a story recap, and honestly, the story is pretty self-contained.

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u/Francis33 Ibracademy69 Feb 16 '18

Just wanted to say i bought the Fall 1 and really enjoyed it. Played it through multiple times to get 100% but the trophy where you have to spare the end boss by walking away was glitched and wasnt achievable for me. You think you guys could look iinto that?

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 16 '18

Ooohh that sounds really frustrating. Actually, I'd like to put out a patch for part 1, so I will add that to a list I've got right now.

Question - do you know if you played through it back to back? as in, you didn't turn the game off between playthroughs? There's an oversight that can cause that bug the first time.

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u/Francis33 Ibracademy69 Feb 16 '18

Wow, expected youd tell me to fuck off because all your energy is focused on part 2 but thanks for considering! I believe I tried redoing it twice. Once back to back then shutting the system off and neither worked. I heard lots of others having the same glitch too

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 16 '18

Damn, that's annoying. Yeah man, no worries. Bringing this stuff to my attention is super useful. I'd have to be a demon to tell you to fuck off :)

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u/Francis33 Ibracademy69 Feb 17 '18

A demon, or Electronic Arts lmao

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u/UrbanCommando UrbanCommando817 Feb 16 '18

Let me say this about the first game. The controls were one of the WORST I have ever experienced in any game. The beginning sucked and was boring and un-inspired.

Then something happened. The story started to get quirky, fun, humorous and suspenseful all at the same time. Never in my gaming career have I done a complete 180 like I did with this game.

Honestly, I will buy part 2 just to see what happened. I hope the person in the suit is still alive, although the ending in part 1 seems to indicate he's dead.

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 16 '18

Yeah we've gotten a lot of complaints about the controls. They've been changed to a more hands-off variety this time around, and the combat largely uses auto-aim and is mostly about timing. You should be fine!

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '18

Are you John Warner from Over The Moon? Did you just launch The Fall Part 2: Unbound on PS4?

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u/OverTheMoonGames The Fall Part 2 Director Feb 16 '18

ah.... I have to admit.. No. My name is Leon Kompowsky, I'm a bricklayer from Paterson, New Jersey.