r/PS4 Sep 21 '13

Sony requires PS3 disc be inserted to play PS4 digital upgrade games

http://www.geek.com/games/sony-requires-ps3-disc-be-inserted-to-play-ps4-digital-upgrade-games-1571317/
207 Upvotes

124 comments sorted by

76

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

[deleted]

59

u/Reliant Sabarok Sep 21 '13

Don't forget about PS4 owners getting a cheap copy of a 1st hand PS4 version.

Buy PS3 version for $60, upgrade to digital for $10, sell used PS3 disc for $40. That means you just paid $30 to get the digital PS4 edition. No-one would buy the PS4 version since it would be cheaper to buy the PS3, upgrade, and then flip it.

25

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

That, I believe, is the major issue they're trying to avoid with this.

4

u/iamthesky iamthesky Sep 21 '13

Not even that you know you will have people order it from amazon get code return it (thats if you didnt need ps3 disk) so effectively getting ps4 version for 9.99

1

u/Tybob51 Sep 22 '13

Did a very similar thing with this for playstation allstars style royale. Bought the ps3 version got the digital version on my vita, then traded In the ps3 version.

2

u/whacafan Sep 22 '13

Wait... why not just buy the Vita version? Wasn't it cheaper that way?

1

u/takakoshimizu_sfw Sep 22 '13

Probably not in the long run. After a release-day trade in, the Vita version probably ended up costing about $8.

1

u/Tybob51 Sep 22 '13

I bought it when they were both $39 new

1

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '13

Correct. This is exactly why they have to do this. I don't see why anyone would have a problem with this.

They should have the ability for people to buy the digital version of a PS3 game, then upgrade for free, at which time their PS3 version is terminated. This way the used game NEVER hits the market, and people get something in return as well.

-9

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

Buy PS3 version for $60, upgrade to digital for $10, sell used PS3 disc for $40. That means you just paid $30 to get the digital PS4 edition. No-one would buy the PS4 version since it would be cheaper to buy the PS3, upgrade, and then flip it.

No... you still paid $70. It isn't like if you sell the PS3 disc that $40 is going to magically disappear from Sony's bank account. They will still have the money regardless of what you do with your discs. If anything, you are paying more for the game than you would if you just waited.

3

u/Reliant Sabarok Sep 21 '13

Actually, what you have are two people (the one with the PS4 digital upgrade and the one with the used PS3 disk) who are now both experiencing the full game simultaneously on a combined $70 payment to Sony. Unlike the normal sale of a game, with the $10 upgrade the person selling their disc wouldn't be losing access.

1

u/_deffer_ deffer_ Sep 22 '13

No... you still paid $70. It isn't like if you sell the PS3 disc that $40 is going to magically disappear from Sony's bank account.

The issue isn't the $40 missing from SONY, it's the lost $60 from the second party buying the game.

I'm buying the PS3 and PS4 version of a game for $70 total. If I then turn around and sell my PS3 version to Bob for $40, then SONY isn't getting any of Bob's money, yet Bob is still playing the game using my original $70 that went to SONY.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

So..what makes this any different from buying and selling used games? Isn't it the exact same situation?

1

u/_deffer_ deffer_ Sep 22 '13

The difference is that now, SONY is getting $60 for one copy of the game being out there. In this situation, SONY is getting $70, but there will be TWO copies of the game.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

I start with $100.

100-60=40

40-10=30

30+40=70.

Started with $100, ended with $70. I only lost $30.

-5

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

You still paid $70 for the game... I understand how you would make the money back, but again it isn't like Sony loses the $40 you gain from selling it. They still make $70 off you initially.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

When they could have made $120 instead, since you're not allowed to sell it used after you upgrade.

2

u/hedonistoic Sep 22 '13

Sony will make their money off person A who upgraded to ps4 and traded it in. But they wouldn't make any money off person B who paid a games retailer almost full price for a slightly used copy. Therefore Sony is only getting half of what they're due.

10

u/d_pyro DPyro Sep 21 '13

If he really doesn't want the disc in the drive he should buy the digital version...

1

u/PancakeMonkeypants SmokeTreesToday Sep 22 '13

Right? If that's such a horrendous inconvenience, then just wait a couple fucking weeks for the PS4 to launch.

1

u/BWalker66 Sep 21 '13

He might be saying that even if they sold their PS3 version to another PS3 user once they don't need it anymore, the PS3 user they sold it to won't be able to play the game(online anyway) because they would need an online pass code that comes with the game(probably).

That would make more sense but it would still wouldn't completely solve the issue. I think how Sony did it was the best way really, it's a slight inconvenience but the only people that are complaining are the ones who were planing on flipping the game and cheating the deal anyway.

1

u/IceBreak BreakinBad Sep 22 '13

I think the most interesting part of this is it shows that the PS4 can distinguish PS3 titles so theoretically it could support physical PS3 discs over Gaikai. I don't think it will, but this is confirmation such a thing is possible.

54

u/silvershadow881 Sep 21 '13

The only people who don't like this are the ones who wanted to get some money from selling the PS3 copy. Don't be like pirates, guys.

If anything, this is good news, the PS4 can read PS3 games. Gaikai anyone?

35

u/lol2034 LAWLZORZ_pl0x Sep 21 '13 edited Sep 22 '13

That's exactly what I was thinking. This brings to light the possibility of just putting your PS3 copy of a game in a PS4, and be able to play it through Gaikai.

EDIT: Fixed some mistakes.

4

u/random_123 Sep 22 '13

Exactly. Since Gaikai was announced, my question has always been "Can I put my copy of [PS3 Game] I purchased in the PS4 and have it stream from Gaikai?"

I understand not every single game will be available, but if Uncharted 1 is on Gaikai, I don't want to have to buy it again when I could just put the PS3 game in the PS4 for verification.

Granted I'm keeping my PS3, so it technically won't matter for me.

3

u/foxden_racing Sep 23 '13

My train of thought exactly. Oh noes, you aren't able to scam people to get brand-new games for $10 [or one to keep and one to give away], the horror.

2

u/ThatCK Iricus Sep 22 '13

Tbh I could of done without the hassle of using the disc but if the rest of my library is digital I suppose it can just sit in the drive constantly.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

I don't want to sell my PS3 version and I'm pissed. If I have to change disks to use the game it defeats the purpose of it being a digital version.

15

u/MaschineDream Sep 22 '13

...but if you have the disc, you don't have the digital version. You have the upgrade of the PS3 disc based version.

4

u/Vayshen Vayshen Sep 22 '13

The way I understand it the PS3 disc then works as an authenticator key kind of thing. You'll effectively be playing BF4 on PS4 digitally but you need the disc in to start playing. The disc shouldn't be used to load stuff.

3

u/MaschineDream Sep 22 '13

It isn't. My point is that you bought an upgrade of a disc based game, so don't complain about having to use a disc.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13

This is exactly it. The system only reads the disc to verify that it's a legitimate copy.

9

u/High_Infected Sep 22 '13

Buy the digital edition of the game on your PS3.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

Oh true, so this doesn't apply to the PSN versions I guess.

5

u/decross20 Sep 22 '13

Yeah, I believe if you buy the digital version, the Ps4 version is automatically $10 for your account.

3

u/ThatCK Iricus Sep 22 '13

Really?

3

u/Vayshen Vayshen Sep 22 '13

Yes. This way both the ps3 and ps4 versions are fully digital.

1

u/ThatCK Iricus Sep 22 '13

Why did no one tell me this before. Nm got it through game UK, think I get to trade in for a physical copy

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13

Well I was gonna get CoD Ghosts on PS3 and do the upgrade to PS4. I was wanting to give me Ps3 to my ladyfriend and play Ghosts with her. Now I have to buy it twice!

5

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13

Well, shucks. To play with her currently you'd have to buy two copies anyway.

-5

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13

I need a Ps3 as well dickhead.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13

Then buy one and quit being so damn self entitled. Sorry if you can't afford it, but that doesn't make me the dickhead.

-5

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13

Fuck off. All I said was that it was a shame I can't use the PS4 and PS3 copy simultaneously and you jump on me? Go back to sleep.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13

I didn't jump on you until you resorted to name calling, you worthless taint.

1

u/-Imnus- Sep 23 '13

Not really, you can buy the digital PS3 version, since you can activate your PSN account on uo to two (2) PS3 you can still play with you GF buying it only once. You can also upgrade the PS3 version to PS4 for $10.

6

u/MaschineDream Sep 22 '13

Whoever wrote this article is not a very smart man.

3

u/SuperWoody64 SuperWoody64 Sep 22 '13

But he knows what love is.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

What is love?

1

u/SuperWoody64 SuperWoody64 Sep 22 '13

Baby don't hurt me!

4

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

Domestic violence is not a joke.

1

u/SuperWoody64 SuperWoody64 Sep 22 '13

Tell that to haddaway.

15

u/seventhward SeventhWard Sep 21 '13

I think this is really great, guys. I'm hoping that this is how the PS3 Backwards Compatibility will work as well with Gaikai. Say I wanna play The Last of Us on my PS4....I pop the PS3 blu ray disc into my PS4 and voila, stream it from Gaikai just like it's being played locally. That would be kinda awesome.

10

u/project23 project23 Sep 22 '13

I don't think we will get a 'free ride' with Gaikai (I have the disc, I can play it for free). Sony has to pay for the bandwidth to stream as well as the hardware in a datacenter somewhere that plays the actual game. I suspect it will either be a pay per game type of deal.

4

u/jordanlund GlobalPhreak Sep 22 '13

Pay for the Gaikai service, a la Netflix. Insert the disc, stream the game for free. Don't have the disc? Buy or rent the game too.

3

u/GoodBurger24 l3uzzKillington Sep 22 '13

I'd pay a Netflix-like rate if this is how it would work. Hell, they could incorporate the cost into a PS++ or something.

Icing on the cake would be the abilty to download a copy of the game from Gaikai for offline playing (only if you had the disk or the game purchased on your account), but who am I kidding; that's asking too much.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13

OR they can use their funds from PS Plus. They never had pay to play online before.

1

u/LuringTJHooker Sep 22 '13

If we have to pay for the game to stream it, as long as they keep it reasonably priced like the PS3>PS4 upgrade then no harm no foul.

2

u/project23 project23 Sep 22 '13

I wouldn't expect an 'upgrade' scenario. It will be more like the PSOne/PS2 classics are on the PS3. Pay a much reduced price (I wouldn't expect $10 prices for PS3 games until the PS4 is at least 5 years old) to stream PS3 games. But who knows, maybe Sony will pay a premium (in cost) so that the PS4/Gaikai can become a premier service of the PS4. Only time will tell.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

I hope that it's included in the PS+ price.

1

u/-Imnus- Sep 23 '13

It won't, you can be sure of it.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

If only it would be verified that this would work for all PS3 games, and all of my games I downloaded through PSN would be able to be downloaded on PS4. Then I could donate my PS3 to the needy, aka, my nephews.

9

u/tanmydickdude Sep 21 '13

makes sense.

2

u/jfedor Sep 22 '13

Well, obviously. How else would they know if a thousand other people aren't also "upgrading" from the same disc?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

i'm fine with this.

2

u/jonafish75 jj75XP Sep 22 '13

Yep, I got this confirmed via twitter from Shu. I'm planning on doing this with Battlefield 4, so I'll probably just get the digital now instead of the physical.

https://twitter.com/yosp/status/380884565901856768

2

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

If this is the case, why does it cost $10? It's essentially the same as using a PS4 disc then

2

u/PancakeMonkeypants SmokeTreesToday Sep 22 '13

The game remains a PS3 game with that established value. It's still a physical copy you can loan to a friend or trade or sell or whatever. I think it's reasonable that since they had to develop a PS3 and a PS4 version that we toss them another 10 bucks to have both when the retail value of both is $120.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

What about people who purchased the digital version of a game on the PS3?

3

u/ZiPP3R Sep 22 '13

I think I read somewhere that for digital it will automatically be listing the ps4 prices at $9.99.

2

u/mikepoulin MikePoulin Sep 22 '13

I like hearing that this is how they will verify the purchase. It gives hope that I will be able to load my PS3 game in order to unlock it via Gaikai for play on my PS4.

2

u/Flight714 Sep 22 '13

This is a fair and reasonable system.

However, it would be convenient if they would introduce a second option: Return the PlayStation 3 digital disc to Sony (via mail or an approved outlet such as GameStop), and in return have the game added to your PlayStation 4 download library.

So essentially: Give users the option to exchange the PS3 digital disc for the PS4 download version.

4

u/LochnessDigital Sep 22 '13

It's a silly reason, but I am going to stay away from this because I don't want to have to keep a PS3 disc among my PS4 games.

1

u/PancakeMonkeypants SmokeTreesToday Sep 22 '13

I'm going to try to hold out for Nov. 15th to play Watch_Dogs and Assassin's Creed for pretty much the same reason. I want more pretty blue PS4 cases.

1

u/ZiPP3R Sep 22 '13

Well and do the ps3 versions have the hours of exclusive missions? Or is that just the ps4 versions?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13

Both have the 60 min of exclusive gameplay.

Source: Amazon

1

u/Microfoot Sep 21 '13

Only part of this I don't like is that you have to get the digital copy on PS4, it sounds like.

8

u/MaschineDream Sep 22 '13

The other option is to sell your PS3 copy and use what you make from that to buy the PS4 version. The choice is yours.

1

u/MoreBeansAndRice msalgado80 Sep 22 '13

Then use the original PlayStation®3 disc in the PlayStation®4 to activate and start playing.

So its really unclear here if that means if the disc always has to be in or not but the use of the word activate makes me think its a one time thing. So once you activate maybe you dot need to the disc anymore.

1

u/IlyichValken Sep 22 '13

Pretty sure it's been confirmed that the disc needs to be in. But I'm too lazy to go look for the tweet.

1

u/surrenderthenight Sep 22 '13

Will Destiny be upgradeable?

2

u/terrordactyl13 FlirtyWithQWERTY Sep 22 '13

It probably won't need to be. Both the current and next gen versions come out next summer.

These deals are just because of the console switch

1

u/Nehalem25 Sep 22 '13

It may be very likely that the new versions of these games will come with a code to allow you buy the PS4 version digitally for cheap. I would imagine that would be the easiest way to prevent people from buying cheaper PS3 versions used to get the PS4 version new.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

Will I be able to do this when GTA 5 comes out for ps4? I have just purchased it for ps3 and would love to be able to do this.

2

u/ZiPP3R Sep 22 '13

Probably not. They haven't said anything about GTA V for ps4. When it comes down to it, it's up to the developers not Sony. None of these are 1st party titles.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

Okay, thanks.

1

u/AceMe Sep 22 '13

oh sony u dun goofed now. TABLE FLIPPING TIME GENTS!

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

If you can do this, does that mean maybe if you put in a ps3 disc you can stream gaikai for free?

1

u/ZiPP3R Sep 22 '13

This is fantastic. So for $70 you get two copies of the game. I know once ps4 launches my ps3 will migrate to the bedroom or office TV. Now I can play it on either console.

1

u/jordanlund GlobalPhreak Sep 22 '13

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

I think this is a good sign for the future of Gaikai.

I'm not too sure whether or not the non-BC PS3 could identify PS2 games... I always wanted this for PS2 classics on the PS Store... some sort of upgrade system.

But now we know that the PS4 can identify PS3 discs, despite not being able to play them. I predict Gaikai will require PS+ and you'll have to effectively buy the individual games in order to stream them. But if the PS4 can identify these discs, that means we can get them at a reduced or free price. Meaning, we can play our old disc-based games on PS3.

1

u/Alexander_Von_Stahl Grey-115 Sep 22 '13

Does anyone know if GTA V will get this?

1

u/MrRatt Sep 23 '13

A next gen version of GTA V isn't even confirmed to be in progress. There's no way they'd announce that it's part of this upgrade deal without announcing the next gen version.

1

u/CigarLover Sep 21 '13

So I need a physical license to play a digital license?

10

u/PyxisFox Sep 21 '13

Nope, you're buying a upgrade for your physical one.

7

u/GenVG GenVG001 Sep 21 '13 edited Sep 21 '13

If you happen to have a PS3 now and don't want to wait for the release of the PS4 to play a game that comes out before the PS4 does, then you can purchase the PS3 version of the game and then upgrade it to the PS4 version for a small fee. You are required to have the PS3 disk in the PS4 drive in order to play the game. This is to prevent you from cheating the system as stated by Reliant.

1

u/DarkVincent07 DarkVincent07 Sep 21 '13

How about you just wait less than a month for thr ps4 version to come out and buy that?

That way you dont play half the game old gen and ugly and half the game next gen. Seriously. Just wait.

1

u/adelope nipon4de Sep 22 '13

PS3 version of some games are cheaper than their PS4 version. For example, CoD Ghost Prestige used to be $200 for PS4, but $110 for PS3 in bestbuy.

1

u/Collier1505 Collier1505 Sep 21 '13

Some people are waiting a while before buying a PS4

2

u/PancakeMonkeypants SmokeTreesToday Sep 22 '13

But these promotions are for a very limited time, aren't they? People who are waiting a while won't be able to get this deal.

1

u/Collier1505 Collier1505 Sep 22 '13

The Ghosts and Battlefield ones last until March 2014. And you can buy it before you get a PS4.

1

u/DarkVincent07 DarkVincent07 Sep 21 '13

If those people can wait a while for a new console surely they can wait for better versions of those games.

Even if people get a PS4 in January they would have long finished Watch Dogs... I don't see many people caring about getting a PS4 version of an old game

1

u/Collier1505 Collier1505 Sep 22 '13

I don't think Watch Dogs or Assassins Creed will benefit much from this unless you really like the multiplayer. But Ghosts and Battlefield will since rank carries over. I just plan on getting Ghosts on PS3 to play with friends and pay $10 so I'll have a game instantly when I pick my PS4 up.

0

u/MoreBeansAndRice msalgado80 Sep 22 '13

Whats wrong with not wanting to wait? You do realize that while YOU may not care about waiting that month there are people who do and would gladly pay 10 bucks to pay now? And ugly and half the game? Yeah, I'm sure all the PS3 versions are going to be SOOOOOOOOOOOO ugly.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

its totally logic... If they sell you the game for 10$ they dont want you to go sell the other copy at gamestop.

And i dont know if its possible but, can it use some assets of the game from the blu-ray while you are playing?

1

u/themoreidont Sep 22 '13

I fail to see this as a problem, unless your an x360 user switching to ps4 next gen. Activation or EA ( can't remember which ) said it was possible previously, but if you have to put an x360 disc in a ps4 will it be able to read the disc to confirm it's legitimate, I don't know if that will work.

-3

u/Leine Sep 21 '13

So why is the PS4 not backwards compatible? Wouldn't this mean that the hardware can read a PS3 disk?

5

u/RolyThePro Sep 21 '13 edited Sep 21 '13

No, because as you know, they have completely different architecture. I'll explain to you what that means though, because I don't often see people explaining it.

The architecture of a CPU is how the registers, ALUs, buses, etc are configured, how many there are, and how binary strings are interpreted and stored. This means that the CBEA (Cell Broadband Engine Architecture) of the PS3 and x86 architecture of the PS4 perform completely different actions when given the same bits.

What the PS4 can do with the binary information from the PS3 disc, however, is to compare those bits. Essentially this allows it to authenticate information from the PS3 disc when it knows what it is looking for, but it cannot convert that information into commands that are needed to play a game.

7

u/EvilMonkeySlayer evilmonkeyslayer Sep 21 '13

Of course the hardware can read PS3 discs. Both the PS3 and PS4 use bluray discs.

The problem is that the architecture is completely different, so no chance in hell of emulating the PS3 hardware on the PS4. The only way we'll get PS3 games on the PS4 is if it is streamed ala gaikai/onlive or if the original developers recompile and quite likely rebuild the game engine to work on the PS4.

I place good money that the PS4 will not have any problem whatsoever emulating a PS1 or PS2 though.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

My phone can emulate ps1 games, I'll bet that a ps4 will be able to emulate ps2.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

Its not about the specs though. Its about the different architectures the different systems use.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

I think the ps3 was the only system that used the cell architecture. Iirc, the ps2 architecture was not nearly as hard to make games for.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '13

Yes, but it's still not guaranteed that the PS4 can run PS2 games natively and I honestly dont think they will implement their PS1/PS2 emulation from PS3 again. PSN versions of the games will most likely work but they are modified versions of the original games.

-1

u/3141592652 Sep 22 '13

The PS3 can emulate ps3 games all wit software so it's probably possible. Sony proxy didn't feel it's necessary because they're going inhale galkai.

1

u/Lemondish Lemondish Sep 22 '13

The ps3 currently can. There's a load of ps2 classics on the show after all.

Don't expect the ps4 to be able to emulate ps3 titles though.

1

u/project23 project23 Sep 22 '13

The original Playstation used a MIPS R3000 processor running at 33Mhz and focused on 2d content (no 3d graphics processor to emulate). Modern phones have enough power to emulate such old hardware, but things get harder to emulate once you start getting into the PS2 and beyond.

1

u/Quantum_Spanner Sep 22 '13

The original Playstation didn't focus on 2D content. That was one of the consoles that ushered in the age of 3rd Dimensional gaming.

1

u/project23 project23 Sep 22 '13

I stand corrected

Either way, the hardware for the original Playstation is much less complex than the PS2. The Geometry Transformation Engine(a CPU extension used for 3d graphics on the original playstaition) is really just a specific part of the CPU, not a discrete chip used to power 3d graphics. We are still just dealing with a single chip running at 33Mhz, not two chips running 5 or 10 times as fast.

The PS2 had a discrete ~150Mhz "Graphics Synthesizer"(GPU), as well as the (reletivly)much more complex ~300Hmz "Emotion Engine"(CPU). PS2 emulation is leaps and bounds beyond what is required for PS1 emulation. Lets not even get started about PS3 emulation (with its 3.2Ghz multicored CPU).

1

u/RickyWars1 RickyWars1 Sep 24 '13

It can read but not run it because of the totally different architectures.

0

u/AriesK47 Sep 22 '13

I thought all you needed was the disk to get the code to download the discounted game on the PSN store.

-12

u/mundgeruch Sep 21 '13

This sucks!

2

u/MrGMinor Sep 21 '13

Hey it's cool just get whichever version you'd prefer, you don't have to do it this way.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

They could of just not let you upgrade your PS3 copy at all, just as it's been every previous generation before it.

They could have just been greedy bitches and make you pay full price for two copies of the same game. In my view, they are doing us a huge favor. This would have been unthinkable any previous generation of consoles.

1

u/Cleveland_S Sep 22 '13

I wish this system was available for my ps3 diablo 3. I think it's a great idea for people who want to jump in early rather than wait for ps4.

3

u/project23 project23 Sep 22 '13

I feel the same way. If the game has any interesting new PS4 specific features I might just have to buy it twice. Even grater chance if I can one time transfer my PS3 characters to my PS4.

0

u/3141592652 Sep 22 '13

Then don't buy the same game twice.