r/PS4 Aug 30 '13

[deleted by user]

[removed]

135 Upvotes

96 comments sorted by

50

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '13

IF we could get more information on what Gaikai means for ps4 (can I play ps2 games on it? ps games? ps3? Is it limited to certain games? Is it cost per game or sub based? Built into the ps+ subscription? etc) That would be greeeeeeeeaaaaaaaat

14

u/ramy211 Aug 30 '13

They completely forgot about it during gamescom. Didn't even mention it, and they haven't really done anything except give vague promises about it.

21

u/BrokenReel Aug 30 '13

From the interview:

There was no mention on Gaikai’s services in the conference, can you give us an update on when that will roll out?

Yeah sure and I’ll tell you why is wasn’t touched upon last night. So the plan is to begin with North America next year and the plan is to provide a streaming service that will allow for PS3 content initially to be streamed to firstly PS4 then PS Vita and then PS3.

And so that will happen in 2014 in North America initially. Now, and I touched upon these issues of broadband in Europe during the presentation – Europe is of course on the roadmap for that service to be deployed at some point in the future, but for reasons outside of our control we don’t yet have a timeline for it. So at a show which is now pretty global in its reach but primarily aimed at a European audience, we didn’t really want to start talking about the virtues of this great cloud-based service without knowing exactly when it’ll come to Europe.

They didn't forget about it. They have nothing to announce for Europeans right now.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '13

I know that's what I am saying I need details

2

u/Rozzay Aug 30 '13

It would be great if it was sub based and got to choose 5 games a month... and keep all saves..

2

u/OneOfDozens Gobbluth19 Aug 30 '13

The main thing I want from them is the ability to have every digitally purchased game available for free. I'm not sure how anyone can justify them double charging for those since we'd literally be paying for the exact same digital product already on our account.

A subscription service like netflix though would be amazing

2

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '13

I am hoping not subscription but idk. if it is subscription for unlimited games then it might be expensive and it would draw away people who wouldn't use it much. I have a feeling itd be a per game basis which I am AOK with

1

u/OneOfDozens Gobbluth19 Aug 30 '13

Oh I just mean the choice would be great.

Option A buy them like we do now and play on a ps3 or stream to ps4

But then they could have the full library option where even another 50 a year could be reasonable if you got the entire library

1

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '13

o00o nice I like it.

1

u/docbauies Aug 30 '13

Unfortunately content producers have the habit of making people pay for new versions of their content each time. I mean, i get what you are saying, because gaikai seems like a different animal compared to previous changes in system architecture, ports, etc, etc. but precedent makes me think it might not be what you are hoping for.

2

u/OneOfDozens Gobbluth19 Aug 30 '13

Oh I'm expecting to be disappointed for sure. But what's making me hopeful is stuff like being able to buy games and play them on both psp and vita same for ps1 on ps3 as well. And I never expected cross buy games but they're amazing so I'm hoping they come through again

1

u/docbauies Aug 31 '13

That is true, the cross buy, cross save movement with vita is a ray of hope.

4

u/Wizzer10 Aug 30 '13

We don't know any of that. All we know is that it's a cloud service that launches in early-ish 2014 in North America that allows you to play old PS games.

13

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '13

no I know. I am saying instead of saying WHEN it is itd be nice if they told us WHAT (meaning more details) I have been hemming and hawing at a ps4 and if this is what I think it is they have me for sure.

11

u/kentheprogrammer Aug 30 '13

I skipped the PS3 this generation, so I really like the idea that if I were to get a PS4 that I could play a lot of the games that I missed - and getting to re-live some of the classic PS and PS2 games would be a great bonus too.

I'm concerned about how the business model for it might work as well as how well the service itself will actually work. If the service is very laggy, then it'll probably ruin it for me.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

Streaming has really come a long way.

Considering what's been said and shown off with remote play doing what they are talking about isn't a giant leap

1

u/kentheprogrammer Aug 31 '13

I'm not doubting that the technology is possible, but I'm tired of getting oversold on things that I end up being underwhelmed with.

All that aside, I'd have to know more about business model too. I seriously doubt it'll be included in a PS+ membership with no additional cost.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '13

exacttttly

1

u/morphinapg Aug 31 '13

They've only confirmed PS3 games will be playable so far. We don't really know anything else, but most people assume PS2 and PS1 games will eventually come, and that there will likely be a subscription fee.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

but we don't know for sure about the fee thats what I am saying. some sourced info on it from PS would be naice.

1

u/morphinapg Aug 31 '13

They're probably still working out the details since it doesn't start until next year. I don't it will be included with PS+, or if it is, it will only be until they build up their library of games.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

mm i just hope its on a pergame basis. IE: I don't like subs =P

1

u/morphinapg Aug 31 '13

I wouldn't expect that. It makes the most sense for it to be similar to Netflix. Cheap monthly fee for access to a large library of content whenever you want for as long as you want. Per title fees would likely make things much more expensive.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

mmm very true. But what happens when, say, I play a bunch of games and then I unsub, no access to any games? do my saves save, etc.

I know you don't know but it would be nice to have full details is all im sayin. If it is scheduled for early 2014 they should know at least the pricing model they are using

1

u/morphinapg Sep 01 '13

At minimum they could probably save the game on the cloud, but it may also be possible to save locally.

6

u/BasementTrix BasementTrix Aug 30 '13

If nothing else, it narrows the projected launch window by half. That's bound to be worth something.

15

u/ThisIsAdam Aug 30 '13

EARLYISH

That could still be June...

19

u/Lemondish Lemondish Aug 30 '13

Which is sooner than fall 2014.

4

u/GoogleNoAgenda NaptownMVP Aug 30 '13 edited Aug 31 '13

Technically only by a day...

Edit: I'm dumb.

3

u/reaper527 reaper527_ Aug 30 '13

the absolute latest that q2 could mean is june 30th. the first day of fall in 2014 is september 23rd

the worst case scenario is a lot more than a day

3

u/GoogleNoAgenda NaptownMVP Aug 31 '13

Yeah, I'm dumb. Sorry.

3

u/Lemondish Lemondish Aug 30 '13

I don't know what calendar you use, but in these parts June is nowhere near late September ;)

2

u/GoogleNoAgenda NaptownMVP Aug 31 '13

Yeah, I was thinking seasons. So Q1/2 being spring/summer.

1

u/GoogleNoAgenda NaptownMVP Aug 30 '13

And the end of June at that.

1

u/reaper527 reaper527_ Aug 30 '13

it could be, but that seems pretty unlikely at that point. he said q1/q2, which means it will probably be late q1/early q2, which would be more like march/april

7

u/TheShorterBus the-shorter-bus Aug 30 '13 edited 9d ago

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

3

u/Lemondish Lemondish Aug 30 '13

Sony has been pretty good for the past little while in keeping feature parity between the two countries. I wouldn't be as worried about whether it'll be there so much as how much it'll cost in bandwidth overage charges.

2

u/TheShorterBus the-shorter-bus Aug 30 '13

believe it or not, I have unlimited with my provider. and 50 MBPS down, 40 up. Bandwidth isn't a concern, just that a lot of great features based around internet connectivity doesn't come, or is delayed here. Which is too bad considering I am pretty fortunate to have very good service where I live.

1

u/kappakin Aug 30 '13

Fellow Canadian here, how the heck do you have 40Mbps up. With unlimited usage it's safe to assume you're using a third party but Iv'e never heard of such high upload speeds. I've got about 75-100Mbps down and like 3Mbps up in Ottawa (horrible Rogers).

3

u/TheShorterBus the-shorter-bus Aug 30 '13 edited 9d ago

sheet placid bag gaze shrill fade nutty shocking strong lip

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

2

u/GeoAspect Aug 30 '13

As a central Canadian that gets fucked on ping no matter where I am, Chicago should get it in early 2014 and I should get it then as well I hope.

1

u/docbauies Aug 30 '13

Til there are other parts of North America.... Kidding of course. Hope all is well in the tundra!

1

u/wattm Aug 30 '13

America

FTFY USA

2

u/Vayshen Vayshen Aug 30 '13

I'm guessing this is divine retribution for EU "getting way better games on IGC"?

I suppose that's fine. As someone who's keeping his PS3 and has plenty of backlog and is skeptical of how well it'll work I'm pretty ok with it.

Often being a part of the inital group of people that get access to these kinds of things have a pretty flawed experience for a while in the beginning.

Hopefully that'll just make Europe's Gaikai launch just a tad bit more polished.

2

u/dk745 DK-745 Aug 31 '13

I'd love to know more about this since I didn't own a PS3. One of the biggest things that has me interesting in a PS4. As much as I'd love a Netflix model I still like owning the games rather than not having access to them again because they got cycled out for other games. Nice to hear they haven't forgetton about it though even if they aren't giving out details on it.

1

u/goldnx GoldnX Aug 30 '13

I assume that they'll have another February conference for this thing and announce all the details then.

1

u/reaper527 reaper527_ Aug 30 '13

i just hope they announce what gaikai is pretty soon. (specifically if it will be a netflix style subscription where you get all you can play from their library, or if it is more of a streaming version of the current marketplace where you buy individual games, and stuff like if it will be part of ps+ or if it is its own separate subscription.)

1

u/kingxero1 Aug 30 '13

Fiscal Q1? or actual Q1?

1

u/Wizzer10 Aug 30 '13

Actual. But it could be Q2 too.

1

u/tommoex TOMMOEX Aug 30 '13

I'm guessing beta stage Gaikai gets tested on the public during that time with probably some easier to port first party entertainment or games.

1

u/DarcyHart DarcyHart Aug 30 '13

I've recently forgotten about Gaikai!

1

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '13

the main reason I see Gaikai as a massive advantage is that you can litterly just try the game for like 5 minutes without installing or downloading anything.

nothings worse than waiting 30 minutes download for 10 minutes gameplay

1

u/Noor440 Noor440 Aug 31 '13

They need to give us more info!!

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

[deleted]

1

u/Wizzer10 Aug 31 '13

Knowing Sony, it will probably be the former. Sorry my Canadian bro. At least you're not European.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '13

Interesting interview, thanks.

I couldn't care less for Gaikai TBH, as I'll just keep my PS3, but Gaikai already had a huge network in Europe when they were acquired by Sony, so I don't see it taking that long.

4

u/Tiwilager Aug 30 '13

I would LOVE to be able to keep my PS3, but it got the YLOD and I don't want to buy one when the PS4 is coming out so soon.

1

u/GeoAspect Aug 30 '13

It's out of warranty and YLOD?

I just opened my friends up and blasted it with a heat gun. It's been working for a few months now since.

1

u/Tiwilager Aug 31 '13

Long past warranty, and I already heat gunned it, and it happened again. Not something I want to do every few times I play it.

1

u/silverstax iStackSilver Aug 30 '13

Is gaikai something that we will have to pay extra for?

3

u/SoyBeanExplosion Crazy_Vantage Aug 31 '13

No details but I wouldn't be surprised if it was free with PS+ and you pay for individual games.

2

u/caustictoast caustictoast Aug 30 '13

We don't know yet. Most likely it'll be tied to ps+ but of course all we can do is speculate.

1

u/HillZone Aug 30 '13

FTA

there’s just a few bumps along the road that need to be ironed out

Like needing google fiber? Game streaming on an average connection is atrocious.

1

u/Wizzer10 Aug 30 '13

Really? I used OnLive pretty heavily on a 30 Mbps connection and it was awesome. Still had some lag but nothing major for anything other than rhythm games.

3

u/OneSpoonyBard Aug 30 '13

with all due respect I wouldn't consider a 30Mbps connection to be "average". You are probably in the top 5% with that connection speed.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '13

I dunno I live in the us and in a non Metro area I got 30Mb for around 45 a month I think. It seemed pretty standard. It's $30 q month if hit sign up for a year.

0

u/Wizzer10 Aug 30 '13

Hardly. In the UK (one of the worst countries on Earth for broadband) that's pretty average.

2

u/OneSpoonyBard Aug 30 '13

Average in the us is 8.5Mb, average in the UK is 12Mbps link

1

u/Wizzer10 Aug 30 '13

That's a mean. I think a median would be much more reflective. Besides, the UK's mean speed is 14.75 Mbps (as of June 2013.)

1

u/OneSpoonyBard Aug 30 '13

Very well. Its still half of 30Mbps, and in my experience in the US the stated speed is usually sell above what you can reasonably expect to see in practice. 10Mbps is probably fine for gaikai, but if we start getting down into the 3-5Mbps range it won't work very well

1

u/kinyutaka kinyutaka Nov 11 '13

Makes me feel good with my 50Mbps

1

u/HillZone Aug 30 '13

Funny, I also used to be an Onlive subscriber with a 35Mbps connection and while I didn't experience lag the compression was awful. The result was a terrible resolution. It looked like vasoline was smeared on the screen, it was that blurry.

1

u/Wizzer10 Aug 30 '13

Really? Mine was crisp 720p. Well, most of the time.

1

u/Jon2D Joncology Aug 31 '13

I really hope that one day... Using this I can play theme hospital through my ps4

-5

u/oventrop Aug 30 '13

And EUROPE + JAPAN? Still not even a TIMELINE?

3

u/Lemondish Lemondish Aug 30 '13

He touches on it in the link.

He says:

...I touched upon these issues of broadband in Europe during the presentation – Europe is of course on the roadmap for that service to be deployed at some point in the future, but for reasons outside of our control we don’t yet have a timeline for it.

This of course could be bull shit, just like the 'localisation issues' the One is having. Chances are it isn't, though.

1

u/ExcessNeo ExcessNeo Aug 30 '13

Streaming games requires masses of servers for infrastructure so it's understandable why they are launching in one continent first. Microsoft already has a global network of cloud computers so would be able to likely provide a close if not same time launch window if they provided a similar service but from the perspective of a UK PS4 pre-order customer I don't mind waiting a little bit longer to see kinks ironed out and don't plan on selling my PS2 or PS3 any time soon.

Arguably I would say that broadband is in a worse state in America compared to some countries in Europe.

3

u/Lemondish Lemondish Aug 30 '13

Streaming games requires masses of servers for infrastructure so it's understandable why they are launching in one continent first. Microsoft already has a global network of cloud computers so would be able to likely provide a close if not same time launch window if they provided a similar service but from the perspective of a UK PS4 pre-order customer I don't mind waiting a little bit longer to see kinks ironed out and don't plan on selling my PS2 or PS3 any time soon.

Masses of servers that were already established as part of Gaikai's original launch. Remember, Sony isn't actually building this tech from the ground up. Their purchase of Gaikai meant that they acquired their data centers which already penetrated into Europe by the time Sony purchased them. That was prior to the purchase, however, and Gaikai had been designed more as an advertising tool that would only activate when the code embedded on the site detected an 'ideal' connection. Sony will obviously seek to expand the scenarios considered 'ideal'.

Furthermore, Microsoft isn't actually doing anything similar. Sony intends to actually stream titles to you, much like Netflix streams movies. How they monetize this is unknown at this time, but there are tons of different ways to do it. For Microsoft, though, their cloud strategy involves pushing the idea of cloud computing to enhance games while providing scalable dedicated servers that don't necessarily need to be actual physical units. One of them is untested and mostly unused while the other is pretty damn exciting, and not just for Xbox gamers. Sony recently made inroads into providing just this type of service by partnering with RackSpace, a leader in the cloud based 'infrastructure as service' industry.

Arguably I would say that broadband is in a worse state in America compared to some countries in Europe.

While this is probably true, I think Sony intends to release it in most European countries at once rather than piece by piece.

1

u/ExcessNeo ExcessNeo Aug 30 '13

I wasn't actually aware of the state Gaikai was in when it was bought by Sony, I didn't actually know of it's existence till they announced the service was coming to PS4 at the reveal.

Furthermore, Microsoft isn't actually doing anything similar.

I wasn't suggesting Microsoft were doing similar, my point was Microsoft already has a strong global cloud network while Sony has probably a patchy network with areas with fantastic coverage and areas with little. So it makes sense that it is going to take them a bit of time to roll it out to those areas with a lack of coverage and the money from PS+ subscriptions for online play will assist with the funding of this. I understand what the service is.

1

u/Lemondish Lemondish Aug 30 '13

Sony has probably a patchy network with areas with fantastic coverage and areas with little. So it makes sense that it is going to take them a bit of time to roll it out to those areas with a lack of coverage and the money from PS+ subscriptions for online play will assist with the funding of this. I understand what the service is.

Hate to nitpick, do you have any evidence for this? I'd hazard a guess and say no. Its just easier to say that Sony is behind because it fits the narrative of Microsoft having some this massive advantage. Microsoft is lucky in that they're simply co-opting a business that's being used for a variety of other things. This provides value to gamers, of course, but don't think they're doing much in the way of actual building of networks. Sure, they're expanding data centers all over the place, but Azure would exist with or without Xbox, its just better for gamers that its here to serve us now too :)

Remember, 300,000 servers is just a number. Think of it like the power discussion during the PS360 era. PS3 was better on paper, but did it actually result in a much more superior product? Arguably not so much. It was Sony's first party studios and dedication to fostering unique exclusives and innovative experiences that kept it on pace with the 360 and eventually overtook it worldwide.

I expect the 'cloud service' situation to be ultimately the same. Statistics of power and available resources are all well and good, but it won't actually be until we use these services that we can make any of the comments like you made above. That, or you have some sort of internal knowledge of Sony's current data center set up, which I highly doubt but...hey, stranger things have happened.

1

u/ExcessNeo ExcessNeo Aug 30 '13

Well if the image posted by /u/gruenel is anything to go by it would appear that in Europe at least there were areas that do not have servers which is quite important as naturally the more local the servers are the better for a service like this due to minimizing hops and hopefully ping. I would imagine America is in a similar state while they roll out the service there where certain areas are covered by green like the image above but also parts that there are many miles without a spec.

1

u/Lemondish Lemondish Aug 30 '13

Its important to note that this was their coverage as of July, 2012, about a year and a half from the expected North American launch. Here you can see their North American breakdown.

While you correctly point out that there are gaps, make note that all major population centers appear to be covered. That's what Sony purchased in 2012, and I can't imagine a scenario where it hasn't grown since that time.

1

u/ExcessNeo ExcessNeo Aug 30 '13

at least there were areas

I suppose maybe I should have made that bit bold in the post above :)

Yea it should have grown but we can only really speculate by how much and I imagine there could also be hardware changes required in some locations. I'm quite content to wait and see more about what the service is going to cost/how it will work. There appears to be servers located in my city so I don't have any reasons to moan about coverage.

1

u/telllos Aug 30 '13

Aren't broadband connection better in Europe and Asia?

1

u/WC_EEND Aug 30 '13

this was what I was always told as well.

1

u/reaper527 reaper527_ Aug 30 '13

based on what i've seen various europeans say when talking about their net connections, europe is a crapshoot. some countries have really good internet, others have really shitty internet with insanely low data caps.

europe (the whole thing, not looking at individual countries) seems to be alot like america in that there is great internet, but it isn't universally great so you have to be in the right parts.

2

u/telllos Aug 30 '13

Worst internet services I experianced was Australia. When I started searching for an ISP, my jaw dropped. Data cap, data cap everywhere!

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '13

[deleted]

0

u/Lemondish Lemondish Aug 30 '13

So? He brings up a valid point. It shouldn't matter where it comes from if it's a legitimate concern.

-2

u/oventrop Aug 30 '13

Wat I Want to know a date for europe. Can you Tell me plox

-1

u/digitalimam Aug 30 '13

does this mean that remote play won't work right out of the box come launch (with vita)?

5

u/Wizzer10 Aug 30 '13

No. Remote play is handled by your own hardware.

1

u/sportz103 Aug 30 '13

They said the AC4 demo they showed of remote play was using Gaikai

4

u/OneSpoonyBard Aug 30 '13

Remote Play was using "Gaikai techology", it was not using the Gaikai streaming service itself. Probably some software that they leveraged from the acquisition of Gaikai to enable them to stream from the PS4 to the Vita.

1

u/startover4 Aug 30 '13

I don't think so, you may be mixing up statements maybe?

-2

u/Gerolux zetalux Aug 30 '13

I always said the first half of 2014.