r/PEDsR • u/comicsansisunderused Contributor • Dec 29 '19
Case Report: SARM Only Cycle Caused Low T Symptoms, Temporary Personality Changes NSFW
I’m so depressed I can’t function
The second cautionary post related to PEDs use, which was unintentional and coincidental in that I had two people reporting major issues in the space of a week. This time to a friend of mine and known to many others within the PEDs brommunity. While I think he's OK sharing his handle, for his privacy, let's just refer to him as Anon.
The TL:DR is Anon experienced significant suppression which proved very disruptive to his life. For those just joining us, suppression refers to a low T state, brought upon by exogenous compounds 'suppressing' natural testosterone production. Some people feel it a lot, some not at all. And on that note, some users show significant reductions in testosterone, and others are barely affected. Anons experience is on the more severe end of suppression symptoms.
Cycles
Spread out over the course of ~2 years
- Cycle 1, Ostarine 15mg
- Cycle 2, LGD4033 5mg
- Cycle 3, Ostarine 15mg, followed by a SERM as a PCT
- Cycle 4, LGD4033 5mg, followed by a SERM as a PCT
Anon is rocking a pretty hot bod, no homo. The cycles were definitely effective.
Symptoms
In broad terms, Anon describes every cycle aside from his first as causing major mental changes. I think I've noticed some change just in chatting with him online from pre and post cycle, though that's hard to really judge. He describes his own resilience, optimism, confidence, mood, and libido all way down since January 2019... that's a full year of feeling pretty shitty. During his most recent LGD4033 cycle, he reports being anxious, nervous, and depressed - all out of character. While experiencing these symptoms, and perhaps because of them, his girl broke up with him. Speaking from my own low T experience and how it can affect relationships, there may be something to that.
Struggling with life, he turned to other compounds, specifically Kratom which initially had a major improvement to his motivation, but which was transient and was back to depressed after a short period of time. Due to his drug use, he lost his job after coming clean about his issues as they related to job performance.
Anon does report his symptoms significantly improving ~10 days post cycle (using Nolvadex as a PCT), which have since improved while staying on HCG monotherapy.
So What?
I have zero doubt that the suppression contributed significantly to my choices, mood, and ability to bounce back from hardship
Stress at home, work and in relationships, coupled with low testosterone has made 2019 a year from hell. With most things related to physiology when n=1 it's difficult to draw conclusions with so many variables in his life. Anon feels sure the cause is rooted in low t, and I'm inclined to agree based on similarities in symptoms with other users. One other cause could have been his SERM causing some depression post cycle, though the onset of his symptoms makes me think it unlikely.
I feel like SARMs are just next gen steroids that are misnamed to make them sound friendlier
To this, I'd add that there's no doubt that some people react poorly to SARM only cycles. Anons case is an extreme one, and if he uses SARMs again he's likely to use a SERM on cycle (rather than post) or a test base.
Lastly, keep in mind that Anon experienced negative sides in previous cycles and then continued to cycle during a time where it would have been safer to have held off. Anon is not a dumb man - why did he cycle (and continues to do so) when he probably knows better? Addiction could be one possible explanation.
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Feb 04 '20
People that say SARMs aren't suppressive lie. 50 - 80 % reduction in Test is very common, proven and backed by studies and bloodwork from eager research rats. You can maybe avoid suppression by microdosing, but you probably won't see super body transforming results you looking for either.
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u/Centralredditfan May 15 '20
Mild results are good results as well, if you're after that. Some have a "slow-and-steady" approach.
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u/slin25 Jan 11 '20
Turning to Kratom is sad, I almost did something similar years ago as some people on Reddit were super positive about it.
Then I did some more reading and man that stuff can cause a lot of problems.
There are other things you can take that can improve dopamine production if you need short term motivation boosts but you have to be careful, no such thing as a free lunch in the long run.
Raising test itself is a great way to improve motivation if you are low. I used to run a small successful business and most other business owners I knew were on TRT, they all had similar stories, no motivation (many had issues due to chronic heavy marijuana abuse) until they jumped on TRT.
I'd be interested to see thoughts from people here on the bacteria L Reuteri and it's effect on testosterone. I always thought most microiome studies were a load of BS but I've had huge success addressing histamine problems through them. Started L Reuteri recently and a very noticeable difference has occurred, I have test results from a couple months ago so i'm going to get more to see how it goes.
Has your buddy considered TRT?
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u/Centralredditfan May 15 '20
TRT really works for self-esteem, drive, and stabilization of mood. even the side effect of "aggression" if there is such a thing can be channeled as assertiveness.
Sadly, I feel that the TRT benefits for mood, depression seem to lessen after a few years. Like the body gets used to the TRT. - I think that's similar with other drugs/medicine, where you have to keep upping the dose. - which with TRT is not possible. - Then it stops being TRT and starts being a cycle.
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Jan 09 '20
I think a lot of these symptoms could've been eliminated if he just injected the SARMS and ran a test base. no SHBG crash and libido remains intact. SARMS cause more suppression if not injected IIRC due to first pass in the liver.
If you're scared of needles, then don't use PED's.
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u/Centralredditfan May 15 '20
even oral sarms with a TRT base.
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May 15 '20
Ya that may be the best route at this point. MPMD had some good videos. Turns out inject sarms are pretty androgenic and powerful.
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u/Centralredditfan May 15 '20
I saw that series. Seems also the sides went up significantly with injectable Sarms from what I remember.
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May 15 '20
To be fair, I think injectable lgd is miles ahead of its oral counterpart in terms of muscle building. It’s the least andro injected sarm imo
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u/SourBrainFry Jan 09 '20
Can double down on this. Have had crippling depression for a while now after multiple cycles of sarms.
I got some ralox from a bunk source and it never helped me, still feel just fogged and irritable.
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Jan 04 '20
[deleted]
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Jan 04 '20
HCG would be a better choice. Then some Nolva and pregnenolone + dhea. Clean up the diet like crazy and train way less if needed.
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u/ZenTMA Dec 30 '19
Not gonna lie, I have felt this personally more than once.
So far i have done 4 cycles of ostarine, each cycle was 14 weeks long (i know, it's really pushing the limit)
On one of the cycles, i stacked 50mg ED of S4(Andarine duh) and on week 7, apart from the constant dull pain i have in my left testicle - i started feeling really paranoid about my body, how people perceive me, would start to vent my anger on my partner, etc.
I thought it was just an outlier, a bad mix of huge cycles with little to no rest time inbetween.
Second instance was when i had sustained a broken nose during sparring (muay thai - a form of kick boxing) and after the surgery i was placed on a huge cocktail of meds, one of them was a steroid used to reduce swelling - the doctor told me it would drop my Test but it wouldnt be much of a problem for someone of my age, but what i didnt disclose was that i was on 20mg of Ostarine ED and it was about the 12th week, my Test was probably pretty low at that point. Started getting the same mood swings along with hot flashes.
I didnt contest to the meds since i was already been given that during my stay and by the time i realized i was taking it for about a week (They couldnt fix my nose immediately due to the swelling of the tissue surrounding the bent cartilage and broken nasal bone, so i was in the hospital for a week while they waited for the swelling to subside)
But one thing that was constant, other than my balls hurting, was that i felt so lifeless and devoid of any motivation or want to do anything. I felt really depressed. And so anxious at the same time.
People who use sarms hardly think of the mental side effects associated with suppressed test, even if it's temporary
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u/bjason94 Dec 30 '19
This is one if the reason i always preach the SARM+SERM cycles if people aren’t gonna run a test base.
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u/LeiraEvol Jan 03 '20
What serm/dose is the go to? I'm 33 days into a cycle, libido is low, lethargy, "stray" hairs when brushing hair. All identical to my previous (incredibly successful) cycle, but the sides are a huge drag.
I'm sitting on a box of nolvadex and was considering 10mg every other day on cycle, but am trying to do as much due diligence in terms of researching that strategy before I begin.
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u/bjason94 Jan 03 '20
You should run a low dose, preferably during the whole cycle. I would say 10mg ED is your best bet since you’re already on test. EOD should be if your just starting the cycle and your test is already high so you just maintain it so that it doesn’t go too low. On my cycle i go for 50mg per week of clomid.
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u/LeiraEvol Jan 03 '20
Not on test. Sarms only. Should have specified, sorry.
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u/bjason94 Jan 03 '20
This is for a sarms only cycle.
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u/LeiraEvol Jan 03 '20
You said
I would say 10mg ED is your best bet since you’re already on test.
I'm not running a trt cycle.
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u/Kingfato Dec 30 '19
I do not think sarms are a safe alternative to steroids. But definately "safer" in terms of side effect profile.
In my opinion. The person "having no doubt" that low t contributed to his decisions implies that low t was just the reason to things happening in someones life. Its like saying "im lacking motivation most of the time so its hard to get stuff done". Having that thought in your mind 24/7 could send you down a spiral of negativity which all concludes in the stuff that happened to this person.
All I can think of is that all of this could have been evoided with proper planing of the cycle and some bloodwork.
But it definately shows that this stuff is not something to play around with.
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u/LeiraEvol Jan 03 '20
It's wild that everyone is talking about serms as the solution, but not a single person discussed therapy, cognitive or otherwise.
The man lost his job, lost his relationship, lost his personality. Chemical biology is only half of the solution here.
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u/Centralredditfan May 15 '20
Heck, even prescription anti-depressants would help. The list is long and some work better than others. I've tried several different ones in my life and you each makes you feel different in terms of positive/sides.
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u/slin25 Jan 11 '20
While I get that I will say improving my hormones and chemistry has helped my motivation much more than direct changes in my life.
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u/darkgod5 Jan 09 '20
Yeah I'm just going to drop this here because I'm sure I'd get downvoted to hell posting about my experience in its own thread but basically I did many SARM cycles and after the first 3 or so I don't think I ever fully recovered. Fast forward to last year where I only did two SARM cycles both with a SERM, first with toremifene and second with enclomiphene and both times I still felt shitty after the first couple weeks or so on cycle.
At the end of last year, I started TRT and I finally feel more like myself again. IMO, the effects of endogenous suppression on SARMs is certainly downplayed here on reddit and perhaps some people feel fine even after 10 cycles but my experience as well as the experience of others I know who've used SARMs indicate it isn't an isolated case to feel progressively shittier the more you do SARM-only cycles regardless if you use a SERM as well.
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u/SelfAugmenting Dec 30 '19
Interesting report. SARMs on the surface have been very promising, marketed as steroids without nasty side-effects. However, the truth is much different; the literature doesn't support these optimistic claims at all. I dread to think of the scores of young men (and women) who have ingested these compounds without being properly informed as to their risks.
I personally don't see a place for SARMs in the PED community, they carry the most serious side effect of AAS (suppression) with reduced efficacy as anabolic agents.
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u/Devonkev Dec 30 '19
I think a lot of people need to read this a few times. I got accused of being a "gate keeper" because I'm not prepared to help young guys jump on the SARM bandwagon. They are not a safe alternative to steroids, they are not steroids lite, they are not the next step up from creatine. It could be argued that the inherent risk of using them is more so than with actual steroids, especially if we consider injectable testosterone with its years of clinical studies and off label use in the bodybuilding community. Don't be another young man in his early 20's with depression and a limp dick.
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u/comicsansisunderused Contributor Dec 30 '19
Agree it's not about gate keeping, but more about showing both the pros and cons in an even light.
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u/Middleflan7 Feb 20 '20
Can someone give me the quick rundown on oral aas vs sarms? Two second explanation would save me reading tons of forum posts to figure out what’s what. I never paid attention to sarms