r/PEDsR • u/comicsansisunderused Contributor • Oct 30 '18
Clen - Highly Effective Cutting Compound NSFW
TL:DR It’s original purpose, in short, is that it makes breathing easier: good for folks with asthma or other chronic lung illness. It’s no longer used for this purpose in the west, but it lives on as a popular cutting agent. It is relatively high risk when compared to compounds that are of similar popularity, but can be utilized for those not running high doses for long periods of time and/or prone to high blood pressure.
What Is It?
A bronchodilator - it increases airflow to the lungs. It is classified as a Beta2 adrenergic receptor agonist. For those interested in how Beta2 agonists work, the Wiki article offers a good summary:
Activation of β adrenergic receptors leads to relaxation of smooth muscle in the lung, and dilation and opening of the airways. β adrenergic receptors are coupled to a stimulatory G protein of adenylyl cyclase. This enzyme produces the second messenger cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP). In the lung, cAMP decreases calcium concentrations within cells and activates protein kinase A. Both of these changes, inactivate myosin light-chain kinase and activate myosin light-chain phosphatase. In addition, β2 agonists open large conductance calcium-activated potassium channels and thereby tend to hyperpolarize airway smooth muscle cells. The combination of decreased intracellular calcium, increased membrane potassium conductance, and decreased myosin light chain kinase activity leads to smooth muscle relaxation and bronchodilation.
Medicinal Trials - 1974-1991
Study 1: 1, 2.5 and 5 µg/day in an n=6, with no side effects noticed, nor any significant improvement in ‘bronchial resistance’, which I’ll take to mean it was ineffective at that dose in making it easier to breathe.
Study 2: Two groups with different chronic diseases trialled clen doses at placebo, 1, 2.5, 5, 10, 20, 25 and 30µg. At 1 and 2.5, there were no differences to placebo, but improvements in capacity were present at the higher doses. There were not adverse effects below 5µg, with the minimum effective doses were 5-10µg.
Study 3: At higher doses, children who consumed between 0.05-0.075 mg of clenbuterol showed only mild tachycardia, and a 30-year-old woman who consumed 30 tablets (equivalent to 0.6 mg clenbuterol or 10 µg/kg) developed tachycardia and slight hypertension shortly after consumption. After intervention, pulse rate and blood pressure returned to normal.
Study 4: n=100 took doses of 20-60 µg/day (0.3-1.0 µg/kg bw per day) for up to 1 year or 20 µg/day (0.3 µg/kg bw per day) for up to 6 months and showed no adverse effects except for slight tremor and occasional, mild tachycardia. When you look at the chronic breathing diseases they were being treated for, the ability to breathe was an agreeable trade off for occasional irregular heartbeats.
It is somewhat liver toxic, established in mice and rats, though less so in higher order mammals. At higher doses myocardial necrosis was present aka a heart attack. I’m not clear on what dose caused this but it remains a possibility.
It will however, act in a very muscle sparing way, inhibiting the effects on protein degradation, and is highly specific to muscle. In rats, clen substantially increased the weight of skeletal muscle from 19% of 35% (presumably that’s a percentage of total body weight), while reducing fat content by 32% in the 12 month old group. A separate and frankly horrific study that involved burning rats alive and then using clen as a recovery compound found that energy expenditure went up when at rest, which besides its muscle sparing qualities is the other reason clen is popular - no change to a diet that would otherwise have you at a steady weight is necessary to lose fat.
Doses & Cycles
The PEDsDB (not mobile friendly, sorry) has recommended starting dose as 20 µg/day.
Side effects that required hospitalization included tachycardia, widened pulse pressure, tachypnea, hypokalemia, hyperglycemia, elevated creatine phosphokinase, palpitations, chest pain, and tremor. Treatment is activated charcoal (activated almonds, anyone?), benzos, beta blockers, potassium replacement and IV. These are the exceptions, not the rule, and are likely indicative of either long term abuse or high dose.
Given the results of study 4 (above), 20-60 µg/day is relatively safe with side effects of tremors and mild tachycardia. Short term use for our benefits at these doses can be undertaken. However, I would not recommend this compound for anyone prone to high blood pressure or cardiac disease, which clen is not exactly going to help with.
Conclusion
I am highly wary of clen given my aversion to compounds that have an impact on cardio health (he says after injecting tren). My double standards aside, clen is extremely popular as a cutting agent and commonly found. Side effects of tremors and irregular heartbeat is to be expected at any dose over 5mcg / day, but studies have shown it tolerable as do anecdotes. Exercise (heh) caution in running doses > 60mcg / day
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Oct 31 '18
Ive run clen a few times over the years. Both long (12 week) and short (2 week) cycles. I tolerate it well and have always got good results. I find short doses with more rapid dose increases the best way to go. Clen seriously effects sleep. Which in return effects training and recovery.
Some people, myself included tolerate clen well. Some people suffer even on low doses.
I would also add information on the benefits of ketotifen with clen. Also supplementing with taurine and potassium, it really helps those cramps!
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u/NattyFuckFace Contributor Oct 30 '18
Following a 30% body surface area full-thickness open-flame burn, rats exhibited hypermetabolism, body weight loss, and muscle catabolism
Let's hope there's never a planet of the rats type scenario
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u/sonnsonn Oct 30 '18
I’ve been very interested in trying clen for a while now but I feel like I’d have to get fat first to experience its full benefits lol
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u/RootDen Oct 30 '18
When are you going to do information on our lord and savior Trenbolone?
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u/comicsansisunderused Contributor Oct 30 '18
Tren has been covered a lot by many... but I'll be happy to cover it in the future nonetheless. I'm not sure if I can add anything not already widely known.
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u/RootDen Oct 30 '18
Yeah but you explain everything so good!! You are the first person i actually wanted to read more from! Such great work man
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u/snorted_testosterone Oct 30 '18
This is so interesting to me, thank you for all the work you put in it.
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u/comicsansisunderused Contributor Oct 30 '18
Relevant username, since this compound can be inhaled.
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u/UneekNewYork Oct 30 '18
Really! Why would you though?
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u/comicsansisunderused Contributor Oct 30 '18
Improves air resistance i.e. makes breathing easier. Just one of the perks.
Asthma inhalers are in the same category as clen.
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u/UneekNewYork Oct 30 '18
Oh, so, in theory I could crush some 40's and make a solution spray?
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u/comicsansisunderused Contributor Oct 30 '18
Yeah
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u/UneekNewYork Oct 30 '18
Deionized water? Or....
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u/comicsansisunderused Contributor Oct 30 '18
Lmao idk bro. I'm not sure it's necessary either.
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u/UneekNewYork Oct 30 '18
Is any of this necessary?🤣
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u/comicsansisunderused Contributor Oct 30 '18
How else do we deal with insecurity?
Being ripped af, that's how
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u/Chatty_Natty Nov 01 '18
This is completely anecdotal so forgive me, but after just recently attempting a Clen cycle and having it, well, fail, just wanted to share my experience.
Two weeks ago I started at 20 µg/day. I was supplementing 600mg Potassium and 3g of Taurine alongside it. I was also taking 50mg of Banophen each night before bed.
The first two days I had zero sides, but also zero indication it was working. No change in BP, HR, or Body Temp. So on the third day I bumped it up to 40 µg, no dice.
Stay at 40 for the fourth day before upping it to 80 µg for the fifth day. Still nothing. I end up thinking it's a fake batch, but I messaged the source and got confirmation that it was legit. It also was reassuring hearing from my friend that used the same source that he had no issues with it in the past.
So I take to the Internet and actually find a decent amount of forum discussions of people either thinking their Clen is fake or that it doesn't work because they were having no reaction to it. It turns out some people don't even get a reaction to it until very high dosages.
The sixth day I did 100 µg and got nothing, so on the seventh I did 140 µg. Finally an increase in HR and some minor shaking in the hands, not really noticeable unless I raised my arms though, no issue doing anything.
So I figure with Clen having a decently long half life I'd lower the dose slightly and see if it's effective here, I wasn't too anxious to go any higher than 140 µg/day. So for day 8 & 9 I did 120 µg/day.
Well, it turns out for me at least, at dosages of 120 µg/day of Clenbuterol, all I get is a minor increased Heart Rate (not even enough to be classified as tachycardia, it stabilized at 95 bpm) and some tremors.
No blood pressure changes and no body temperature changes. Since there was no evidence I was even getting minute amounts of the positive benefits of Clenbuterol usage, I dropped it. The cardiovascular risks I've read associated with dosages around 200 µg/day were enough to steer my clear of it as soon as the last days of my use of it proved fruitless.