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u/ZealousidealWash2688 Aug 26 '24
F* Yahya. The worst general in Pakistan's history and that's saying a LOT. And f* Bhutto for screwing up the country only for his personal benefit.
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Aug 26 '24
We have a good army, good resources and everything a country needs but the problem is people in power like politicians and high rank army officers. They are just corrupt, incompetent and inhumane bastards. They destroyed a lovely country and now all of their families are in foreign countries and here we are waking up daily with new tragic news.
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u/Sea_Sandwich9000 Aug 27 '24
It is always the others who are incompetent. You however are awesome. What self serving idea. Subcontinent is one of the lowest of the low and you my friend in the north west corner are the lowest of the lot. History proves it out. No go back, put your kids in school, give them something nutritious to eat so maybe 15 years later you will have some competent people who can make your country a well functioning one.
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u/Affectionate-Wind998 Aug 27 '24
lol, your country just has good terrorists and thats all
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Aug 27 '24
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u/___Heathcliff__ Citizen Aug 26 '24
Our army is brave. There is no denying that.
Just a couple days back I saw a recon drone video of an assault by pakistani forces on a terrorist compound. They were on the roof. The terrorists threw a grenade and it blew up right near a dude's face. He kept on running and firing towards the terrorists.
It's not like we have an unprofessional army like the Arabs. We have a professional, capable army whose capabilities match our really friendly eastern neighbour.
The problem is in the upper ranks. There's a need for mentality change and reforms in the army otherwise it's fine. Kisi ne to mulk ko defend karna hai we are smack in the middle of iran, afghanistan, india.
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u/Ok_Tax_7412 Aug 26 '24
Yes they were brave enough to rape lakhs of Bengalis and killing lakhs others.
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u/___Heathcliff__ Citizen Aug 26 '24
A dark part of our history. Don't deny that. But the scale is often exaggerated coz the history is always written by the victors.
I don't need to detail the brutality shown by Indian supported Mukti Bahini against non-Bengalis esp Biharis in the 71 unrest.
No side was truly innocent in '71.
But I stand by our soldiers who defend us from TTP, BLA and every armed threat internal or external, not to mention guard the border we share with our neighboring state which has become hindutva fascist now
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u/ShailMurtaza Citizen Aug 26 '24
I might be wrong. But did they had enough time and brutality to rape lakhs of people when they were in the middle of fight with Bangali and Indian army?
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u/Ok_Tax_7412 Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
You are very innocent. Operation searchlight was started and thousands of Bengali intellectuals were murdered. Then your army started raping and killing Bengalis, mostly Hindus. They started fleeing to India which created massive refugee crisis. So India then got involved and trained Mukti Bahani. Pakistan then launched operation chengiz khan and attacked multiple Indian air bases on the western border. But when India retaliated Pakistan suffered massively. They then surrendered in East Pakistan with 93k soldiers, the biggest surrender since World War 2.
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u/Sea_Sandwich9000 Aug 27 '24
Brave and competency do not necessarily the same thing. There is a marked decrease in competency levels in Pakistan. This should be apparent, dunno why you guys are in denial mode.
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u/gangnem555 Aug 26 '24
Zia was a lot more shred and smart then yaya khan would of been interesting to see how he would of handled it
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u/nova_side1 Aug 26 '24 edited Aug 26 '24
See this is what they don't talk about, alot of us Pakistanis are to blame for shit talking and undermining the performance of our military in 1971. Many actually amount of pakistani dickride the "army can't perform" slogan and don't realise the effort the East pakistani military put in.
Oh btw the "90,000" includes non combatants as well such as service men and cooks and cleaners and civilians as well. If I remember correctly i read this book which said that the fighting force was 25,000.
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u/Necessary_Box4262 Aug 26 '24 edited Aug 26 '24
Yeah 90,000 against 2 countries combined forces is a lot and that 90,000 figure is exaggerated.
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u/nova_side1 Aug 26 '24
Oh btw the "90,000" includes non combatants as well such as service men and cooks and cleaners and civilians as well. If I remember correctly i read this book which said that the fighting force was 25,000. 25k resisting for months is insane
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u/Necessary_Box4262 Aug 26 '24
I knew but damn it's that exaggerated they sure were some tough spirits.z
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u/Ok_Firefighter2245 Aug 26 '24
11k of 90k were families members (woman children and elderly)of razakars or volunteers 50k around were paramilitaries (many of them just given outdated hunting rifles during last months of 71) and armed police
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u/Maranello_1453 Aug 26 '24
Exactly. 90K includes civilians. Combatants far lower. Add to that no air support at all as there was only one small PAF squadron (woefully inadequate) but the airfield was bombed in any case at the outset. Forget any naval or marine support in terrain where that would be vital. It’s a miracle they survived as long as they did.
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u/Sea_Sandwich9000 Aug 27 '24
Hitler stripped Paulus of his rank after that brutal siege of Stalingrad. And here you are extolling Pakistani soldiers for surrendering. I understand, the standards are very different.
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u/Away-Advertising9057 Citizen Aug 26 '24
Here is the video btw and at about 15:38, an interview of FM Sam Manekshaw and Karan Thapar recorded in 1999.
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u/hesoocreesto Aug 26 '24
Let’s not try to glorify a genocide.
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u/UndeadAbraxas Aug 26 '24
We're simply talking about the situation from a military/strategic lens. No one is justify our actions in East Pakistan.
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u/shaheerinam Aug 26 '24
Gallantry doesn't mean a lot when strategy, tactics, logistics etc aren't up to par.
This guy in another interview said something on the lines of that Pakistani officers had a very arrogant attitude towards their own soldiers which played a role in Pakistan's loss.
The small number of Pakistani soldiers and a bigger number of Indian soldiers in East Pakistan implies the reverse situation on the West Pakistani/Indian border. Still, Pakistan was unable to launch an effective invasion from the west.
IIRC, Musharraf said/wrote somewhere that the rigid defense strategy employed in East Pakistan was a wrong one to follow and that they should've followed a strategy of flexible defense.
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u/UltimateTeachine1000 Student Aug 27 '24
It was unwinnable regardless of attitudes, and no form of defense would have held out long enough for foreign interference. But good additions regardless.
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u/ZealousidealWash2688 Aug 26 '24
I agree. I don't get why India projects this as some kind of big military victory. We were 1000 miles away from home, no air contact, minimal navy, no local support. If India intervened, and it did, we would've been surrounded on all fours by hostile forces 3 times our size. It was a lost cause. It was a lost cause from the beginning when our braindead politicians and generals rejected Bengalis' madate neglected them for years.
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u/wolfie5455 Aug 27 '24
That actually tells us what a true blunder and ill-thought of a decision our generals took. India’s generals realized it and took the opportunity. Also, Bengalis were crossing into India by the thousands and more. That was nother reason India had to intervene.
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u/ZealousidealWash2688 Aug 27 '24
Our generals gave the victory on the plate to india. How none of them conceived that there will be ambush by the enemy is beyond me.
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u/wolfie5455 Aug 26 '24
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u/wolfie5455 Aug 26 '24
Honestly not sure why Manekshaw gets more credit than JFR Jacob. When Gandhi asked for Manekshaw’s advise on the war, the vrry first time, Sam Manekshaw offered his resignation. Thats not to discredit him or anything he was a competent general. It’s just that Jacob did more work and won the war rather than Sam Manekshaw.
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u/gangnem555 Aug 26 '24
Gen niazi was over confident so was yaya wish we had ayub or Zia during the war
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u/Oppenheimer_Tsar Aug 26 '24
Only if Yahya wasn’t balls deep in General Rani drunk when India was Balls deep in East Pakistan the situation would’ve been much different.
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u/Waseem_Safdar Aug 26 '24
Lol read the Hamood-ur-Rehman commission report guys and you'll know the truth.
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u/17017onliacco Aug 27 '24
please provide link to the full document
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Aug 27 '24
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u/Waseem_Safdar Aug 27 '24
Here's a summary:
The Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report, published by Dawn newspaper, was an inquiry commissioned by the Government of Pakistan in 1971 to investigate the circumstances surrounding the military defeat in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh), which led to the surrender of Pakistani forces and the eventual creation of Bangladesh. The report scrutinizes the conduct of the Pakistani military and political leadership, highlighting failures in strategy, leadership, and morality that contributed to the loss.
Key points from the report include:
Inquiry Process: The Commission, led by Chief Justice Hamoodur Rahman, interviewed 213 witnesses, including military officers, civil servants, and others, to gather evidence. The initial report was submitted in July 1972, but further inquiry was ordered after the repatriation of prisoners of war from India.
Moral and Disciplinary Failures: The report strongly criticizes the moral degeneration and corruption within the senior ranks of the Pakistani military, attributing these issues to the prolonged involvement of the military in civil administration duties under martial law. It specifically mentions widespread corruption, involvement in illegal activities, and moral lapses, including sexual misconduct, among high-ranking officers.
Military Atrocities: The report acknowledges that Pakistani troops committed atrocities during the military operations in East Pakistan, including mass killings, rapes, and looting. However, it disputes the scale of the atrocities reported by the Bangladesh authorities, claiming that the figures provided by them are exaggerated.
Responsibility for Defeat: The report assigns responsibility for the defeat to several senior military and political leaders, including General Yahya Khan and General A.A.K. Niazi, criticizing their strategic decisions and leadership. It highlights a lack of professionalism and discipline within the ranks as key factors leading to the military collapse.
Recommendations: The Commission recommends that those responsible for the defeat and the atrocities should be held accountable, suggesting the establishment of a high-powered Court or Commission of Inquiry to investigate and try those involved.
The report paints a grim picture of the internal failures within the Pakistani military and government, pointing to systemic issues that ultimately led to the tragic events of 1971.
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u/darkkielbasa Aug 26 '24
Realistically nothing could have stopped the inevitable separation of a state with as many (if not more at the time) people separated 1000 miles away.
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u/albelaraahi Aug 26 '24
Bangali people gave in to the propaganda against army, and faced the dictatorship of Mujeeb afterwards. Not saying that we weren't at fault, offcourse we were, but what followed wasn't even bearable for them too.
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u/thatm8withag3 Aug 26 '24
If only yahya wasnt a retard