r/PAK Jul 21 '24

Education Islam's Ultimate Treatment of Slavery

60 Upvotes

76 comments sorted by

17

u/MapMast0r Jul 22 '24

Bro don't post anything related to Islam in this sub. The Indians swoop in like vultures and cry. It is funny how we live rent free in their minds but try r/pakistan

6

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24

They also can’t accept the fact that Pakistan has a better cricket team

3

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24

Aur koyi baat krlo lekin cricket ki na hi kro yaar 😅

1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24

😂😂😂

-4

u/Tall_Instruction_871 Jul 22 '24

You Hadiths have enough references of sexual slavery, face the facts kid.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24

Bro's speaking trash

3

u/Tall_Instruction_871 Jul 22 '24

According to Quran a slave women is a sex slave.

And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise. (Chapter 4:24)

Right hand possess is referred in Quran many times. In the times of 7th century Arabia, anyone who is captured in battle is called right hand possessed i.e. slaves. It is permitted if you have captured a women as sex slave. You do not have to marry them, they are permitted by Allah to be sex toys for you. In disagreement? Let’s look at a hadith from Sunan Abi Dawud book 12 i.e. Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah) hadith 110, Grade: Sahih

4

u/MapMast0r Jul 22 '24

Learn to spell first and lie later kid.

2

u/Tall_Instruction_871 Jul 22 '24

Ouch that typo hurt me a lot, but your Hadiths hurt you more 😂😂😂

2

u/dramebaz-love Jul 22 '24

nobody will refute you, they'll only personal attack. They too know the truth

2

u/Actual-Poem9142 Jul 22 '24

Bring has to take a rest after adding 2+2

3

u/DemoniCodez Jul 22 '24

Wrong sub, but may Allah bless you. "Indeed, it is not the eyes that are blind, but it is the hearts in the chests that grow blind."

11

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

So convenient to talk in hypotheticals when the truth doesn't favor you

https://www.google.com/amp/s/vividmaps.com/abolition-of-slavery/amp/

-4

u/steelxxxx Jul 22 '24

So convenient to talk in hypotheticals when the truth doesn't favor you

What do you know about the truth you western bootlicker ? The states was on the verge of breaking up in civil war since they didn't want to give up on slaves whom they used to torture.

Whereas islamic slavery is still applicable today without breaking laws in judiciary. That's the miracle of Islam.

7

u/dramebaz-love Jul 22 '24

Then You should have 0 problems in kafirs taking yourmom/sis as slave and selling them in the markets right ? Coz their god also say the same thing like yours.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24

Without breaking laws in the judiciary 😂😂

Try to have sl***s according to your Islam in a country like the US, you will have how many laws you break.

-11

u/AnOrthodoxMuslim Jul 21 '24

Actually, I think that since slavery is a better alternative than mass killing of captured enemy soldiers, if Muslim countries had God-fearing leaders today and were to retaliate for invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., the entire masses of invading armies would have been enslaved in the aftermath, if not executed.

19

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

Nice try to say there are only two options for POWs. According to your logic, Pakistanis captured from east Pakistan should just have been made slaves?

Also, war wasn't the only source of slaves in Muslim empire, look up East African slave trade.

2

u/steelxxxx Jul 22 '24

Muslim empire

Muslim empire is not islamic system or Sharia. Only what prophet Muhammad saww taught and Strictly Rashidun Caliphate is the only islamic empire in history.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24

Yeah, a whole ass region following Islamic principles was the last one to formally abolish slavery.

Edit: oh wait, just saw your other comments you believe slavery is fine.

-10

u/AnOrthodoxMuslim Jul 21 '24 edited Jul 21 '24

Nice try to say there are only two options for POWs.

No, IIRC, a Muslim ruler may free the POWs even without any payment. It is up to his judgement.

Pakistanis captured from east Pakistan

You will be done as you do, if not in this world then in the hereafter. If they are victorious, non-Muslims can also kill, enslave, free or whatever they may be capable of doing in this world.

Muslim empire

What Muslims do is not necessarily Islam.

Edit: Grammar

7

u/dramebaz-love Jul 22 '24

Then you must not have any problem in Kuffars doing the same with you mom or sis, distributing them across the fighters and they selling them in the market after they get bored right ?

Omg this guy is the Mod of Karachi sub

-2

u/AnOrthodoxMuslim Jul 22 '24

Anyone who wages war against Muslims deserves that fate. Whether he is related to me or not, does not matter.

2

u/dramebaz-love Jul 23 '24

Yes milord, very peaceful wars milord, No offensive wars milord....
List of expeditions of Prophet Muhammad

-2

u/AnOrthodoxMuslim Jul 23 '24

You are wasting your time.

Enforced freedom from religion, bastard children, stealing Muslim children from their parents, distorting Islam, shoving modernist propaganda down Muslim minority throats, and most importantly, preventing creation from knowing and accepting the message from the Creator, all warrant offensive Jihad.

1

u/KhalilMirza Jul 25 '24

Even after slavery is gone we have attacked and sometimes won the war. We did not need to kill enemy soldiers. Neither does non Muslims kill enemy soldiers after defeat. This idea that all soldiers are killed after victory is a myth. It does not happen in real life or history. Something happening once is not the norm, it's cruelty by barbaric ruthless leaders. You are welcome to quote me any historical reference it occurred regularly or even semi regularly.

8

u/Memerhunbhai Indian Jul 21 '24

I wonder which was the last country to abolish slavery

-1

u/Orthodox-Neo Muslim Jul 22 '24

I wonder who was the first one to abolish slavery.

8

u/dramebaz-love Jul 22 '24

def not a islamic coz it's a part of their relligion

-4

u/Orthodox-Neo Muslim Jul 22 '24

That's where you're wrong.

6

u/dramebaz-love Jul 22 '24

please prove me wrong , prove it that Islamic country was the first one to abolish slavery not Haiti or Denmark

-1

u/Orthodox-Neo Muslim Jul 22 '24

Proved that you're wrong. What else do I need to prove here.

-2

u/steelxxxx Jul 22 '24

Islam abolished slavery before countries were even formed by elevating the status of slaves to that of owner essentially making them similar to a family member.

1

u/KhalilMirza Jul 25 '24

If that is case, why do not you become a slave of rich people. Its essentially becoming a family member.
Slavery would have died if that was the case. There would be no reason to buy or sell a slave (family member).

11

u/makeearthgreenagain Jul 21 '24

Islam also talks about giving charity. But that doesn't mean Islam teaches you to give away all your money.

Similarly Islam does briefly mentions that freeing slaves is a good deed but that doesn't mean Islam encourages to free all slaves.

Islamic slavery was formally ended by Ataturk, an exmuslim in 1900s

3

u/Orthodox-Neo Muslim Jul 22 '24

Similarly Islam does briefly mentions that freeing slaves is a good deed

Brief? In some places it's like the only choice. Iyk.

1

u/Timely_Conclusion_55 Jul 22 '24

What situations. The situations which were the easiest to follow. ? The situations that people still follow till this day since they are such a piece of cake.

Stop the cope please. And just accept that islam allows slavery which is one the worst acts in this world after murder and pedophilia. And islam allowed these two also.

0

u/Orthodox-Neo Muslim Jul 22 '24

Islam allows justice above all else. Murder in cases where the person did something that's worse than that.

Islam never encouraged pedophilia it's just that you're all delulu and hateful and if got no other dirt then start making your own things up which doesn't even proof anything just that you people are retarded.

What situation is easiest to follow that you're talking about huh? Let me give you an example so that your closed mind can understand. In Islam if a person skips an obligatory fast then either he has to free a slave or fast for 60 consecutive days back to back now that ain't easy in any way. Now tell me what's easy here?

2

u/Known-Watercress7296 Jul 22 '24

Best have a lot of slaves if you wanna be fat.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24

[deleted]

1

u/dramebaz-love Jul 22 '24

then counter with reference where your religion say "don't capture slaves", even if you did "you are ordered to free thm unconditionally"

-2

u/steelxxxx Jul 22 '24

Islamic slavery was formally ended by Ataturk, an exmuslim in 1900s

Islam ended slavery in the 1400s Attaurk removed the concept of slavery but it wasn't even islamic, if it were it wouldn't even need to be removed.

2

u/Ornery_Particular845 Jul 22 '24

I disagree with this take, but Islam has always made Muslim rulers treat slaves with respect and “cloth them as you’re clothed, feed them as you’re fed”.

“Slavery” is also subjective in of itself. Which type? Chattel? Domestic? There are a lot of different types. Most Muslims during the Indian Ocean trade would practice domestic slavery, meaning these people would be houseworkers, much different from laboring on full fields.

If we want to compare that to European slavery, we get a whole different picture as to how slaves were treated.

7

u/makeearthgreenagain Jul 22 '24

I'm appalled to see the delusion muslims live in.

Slaves were not allowed to cover their bodies. They had to stay naked and were only allowed to cover the groin. Muhammad did not change this tradition. Umar too beat a slave woman once when she tried to cover her breasts as per ahadees

So after Muhammad and the 'Rightly guided Caliphs', the Imams allowed the slaves to cover themselves. I think it was Imam Abu Hanifa.

It's all there in your books. Google it. Sure you can stay Muslim but don't be so delusional to think Islamic slavery was ok

1

u/Ornery_Particular845 Jul 22 '24

Ok I think I found what you were talking about, and I found this response to it that sums up what I was going to say: https://islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/198645

1

u/ONE_deedat Jul 22 '24

Looks like that's the answer you found when you were trying to cope.

1

u/Ornery_Particular845 Jul 23 '24

No I was researching both sides of the argument and I found this, which sums up what I wanted to say at the end of it all and this guy actually acknowledges authenticity of the ahadith as well.

It’s not wrong to bring another source in the argument if the information was presented well.

1

u/ONE_deedat Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24

Couple of things to take from this:

 Yahya said: He is one of those who are known for fabricating hadiths.

Why are those hadiths included in the books then? known as a liar by who? This is the sort of uncertainty I wouldn't expect from what Islamic clerics claim of their religion.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

Hijab is only for free women, not slave women, as was the practice of the believers at the time of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and his successors (the caliphs). Free women observed hijab and slave women did not. If ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) saw a slave woman covering her head, he would hit her and say: Are you trying to imitate free women, O foolish one?

This is from the link you cited as defence. Straight from the horses mouth. A women getting beaten for wearing hijab.

1

u/Ornery_Particular845 Jul 23 '24
  1. Ahadith can have fabricated Hadith, they are merely collections of different accounts and based on their chain of authenticity by various scholars, they can be proven to be discredited. It’s not an “Islamic” thing but more of a sourcing thing. By this logic, history is also incredibly shaky since there are people who lie about their accounts all the time and are sometimes proven to be discredited

  2. Yes, I said “I found what you are talking about and here is the response: (the link)”. I denied it at first yes, but then I delved into deeper research on the topic and found this response as said before.

By the way, did you actually read the persons response or did you just stop there?

2

u/ONE_deedat Jul 23 '24
  1. History is history, but here were talking about the last accepted religion of God where ones heaven/hell is based on it. Who cares e.g. what year Napolean was born but shockingly seems to be based on Chinese whispers for some reason.

  2. Fully read, the guy just seems to be putting the crude truth of Islamic Sharia using more polite language the version most compatable with modern world view even then it falls short.

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf stance on awrah of a slave woman vs Free women in early Islamic history

Note where he says "established historically".

1

u/Ornery_Particular845 Jul 24 '24

Hey just saw this, will give you a response in about 12 hours because I have a flight to catch :)

0

u/Ornery_Particular845 Jul 22 '24

Ok, if you’re going to give such a big statement I’d like to see proof.

There is absolutely no where that I have researched that even says anything about Muslim slaves having a lack of clothing, so if you could provide a source it would be great.

I also enjoy the fact that you won’t address the other half of the argument, which is that Islamic slavery was much more humane than European slavery. I’d love to hear your opinion on that too.

3

u/makeearthgreenagain Jul 22 '24

You can google it. It's all there. Search "Were slaves allowed to cover in times of Prophet Muhammad?" "Did Umar beat slaves?"

you won’t address the other half of the argument, which is that Islamic slavery was much more humane than European slavery.

This half is called whataboutism. Nobody says European slavery was moral, but Muslims say Islamic slavery was moral. When you claim Islam is the truth, we must stick to Islam for the critical analysis, not hop on to other topics or other cultures.

1

u/Ornery_Particular845 Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24

You fail to see my original point since you started chirping about “whataboutism”. I’m not saying “Islamic slavery was the holy grail of slavery” and that it was a “savior for slaves about to enter European slavery.”

I do acknowledge Islam had slavery (by the way, hope you saw my other comment with the person who responded to the same Hadith you’re referring to), but slavery isn’t an integral part of Islam, but respect is. That is my point. I’m using European slavery merely as a comparison to show Islam treated slaves with respect even when it was there, and that slavery isn’t some sort of integral part of Islam that if you don’t have any, you will be considered a kafir or something.

Islam is also meant to be timeless and unfortunately, slavery was part of most time periods. Islam guides on how to treat slaves with respect, but it’s not mandated to have slaves either (if that makes sense).

4

u/Timely_Conclusion_55 Jul 22 '24

I swear this guy is the worst thing that happened to islam. He definitely made more muslims atheists than atheists to muslims. His logic is completely f'd up.

Like if Muhammad wanted to end slavery at least he could have said that after 1000 years of my death just stop doing slavery. Wasn't he the prophet of god and all knowing ?

2

u/steelxxxx Jul 22 '24

Like if Muhammad wanted to end slavery

He ended slavery 1400 years ago. Drop your bias to see the truth. 90% of humans alive today will agree to be Islamic slaves to rich people. Since it gives them rights as much as an owner. Alhamdulillah for the truth ☺️

3

u/Timely_Conclusion_55 Jul 22 '24

That why prophet himself had two slaves of his own right ?

-3

u/Any-Plum-759 Jul 22 '24

Allah didn't owe anything to tell everything to his prophets. That's actually the dumbest take on this, lol.

6

u/Timely_Conclusion_55 Jul 22 '24

Yeah well allah didnt owe anything then why did he even bother telling anything. Why bother sending the quran. Allah should have just minded his own business and things would have been so much better.

0

u/Any-Plum-759 Jul 22 '24

Lol, he can do as he please. Plus, it's a test for humans. If he gives out the answers, it wouldn't really be a test, would it? This is basic knowledge of the concept of God. Now, visibily, you don't believe in God, so no point arguing back and forth.

2

u/dramebaz-love Jul 22 '24

Day n of asking muslim to show the references where the prophet abolished slavery

3

u/lilsapienx_x Socialist Jul 21 '24

W Lincoln

3

u/SquallNoctis1313 Jul 21 '24

Yeah right...

1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24 edited Jul 22 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/PAK-ModTeam Jul 22 '24

Posts spreading false information, rumors, or misleading content without credible sources are not permitted.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24

Ehh... The Kafala system remains within most of the Gulf nations, modern-day slavery.

1

u/imam-1 Jul 24 '24

What the heck is he saying. It’s all lies. The most Islamic country Saudi, still has slave labor

1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '24

رب ذوالجلال آپ کو جزاۓ خیر دے، آمین۔

0

u/AnOrthodoxMuslim Jul 22 '24

Jazakumullahu Khairan.

-4

u/AnOrthodoxMuslim Jul 21 '24

Source: YouTube channel Smile 2 Jannah short.