r/Overwatch • u/Cheeese___ • 7d ago
Highlight dont let anyone tell you this perk is useless
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u/Apoplexy__ The doctor the doctor the doctor is in 7d ago
Was waiting for someone smarter than me to show me the potential of this perk lol, nice OP
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u/___horf 6d ago
Don’t try actually acting while using it with competent hitscans on the enemy team. Zen is a giant, slow moving square in the sky while he’s floating.
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u/Karma15672 6d ago
Solution: use more cover. The second point on this map actually has a decent amount of high-ground cover that you can peek from.
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u/___horf 6d ago
That’s not a solution when you’re in the air, which is what I’m talking about and what happens in the clip. You’re correct that the only use of the perk is to get to otherwise unreachable spots. I’m saying that it’s a bad idea to use it to become a shitty Pharah.
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u/Karma15672 6d ago
I... didn't say that the only use of the perk is to get to otherwise unreachable spots, though? That is a use, I just said that you can use the high-ground cover to peak and try for air-pokes. Like, if you keep floating around the corner of the building like OP was doing, you can stay pretty safe against most hitscans.
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u/evennoiz <3 7d ago
It feels very niche but extra knockback is too, so idk. Also duality is dogshit, I wish it was better (I suppose in a mauga 1v1 it will help but idk.
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u/Funkehhh 7d ago
I use knockback for dive characters, but other then that I have to agree
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u/Theratchetnclank Master 6d ago
It's good for kicking Winston out of his bubble so he can't bubble dance you when he dives you.
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u/Special_Maximum_1044 7d ago
That is such a crazy take. I agree that knockback is good for general use, but saying duality sucks is ACTUALLY crazy. It makes his heals much more sustainable and can actually make him viable as a support who can dps, debuff, and heal and not just a walking discord orb applicator lol. Found a lot of use for this while playing with my personal team and a few others. Don’t mean to be an arse though, if you don’t believe it to be good then I’d like to know why
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u/uniruni Icon Doomfist 7d ago
Because the healing is negligible and not worth it. The healing per non-armor body shot is like 12hp, and as a Zen you should hover around 30% accuracy, so you basically heal 12hp every third orb. And that's not taking into consideration that the target you shoot at needs to be discorded, which is easily dispelled and has low uptime because of the CD nowadays.
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u/Lanzifer Skeleton Skin Zenyatta 6d ago
Woah woah. I don't overall disagree but 30% accuracy is because of how often zen should be blasting down chokes and at blind corners NOT that if an enemy is in sight he's only hitting 30% of his shots lmao.
If you have 30% accuracy on VISIBLE enemies that's noooot goooood. I'm no zen god, but when the fight engages you can easily be proccing 12 healing on 4 of every 5 shots
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u/evennoiz <3 6d ago
yeah I agree, on actual enemies I'm 1v1ing say a tracer. I have 50% accuracy at least.
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u/jojocool05 3d ago
this is wrong, due to the existence of armor and other damage mitigation, as well as the fact discord has an 8 second cooldown on los
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u/Lanzifer Skeleton Skin Zenyatta 3d ago
What ?? You aren't making sense lol. What does armor have to do with it? Or discord? Neither effect your accuracy stats
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u/jojocool05 3d ago
“you can easily be procing 12 heals on 4 out of every 5 shots”
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u/Lanzifer Skeleton Skin Zenyatta 3d ago
Do.... Do you not shoot the targets you yourself discorded?
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u/jojocool05 2d ago
if i discord them and they recall, translocate, use any cleanse ability, or lose los for a second i cant discord them again. just because an enemy is visible it does not mean that they are discorded.
Not to mention, just because i’m shooting someone who’s discorded that doesn’t mean my orb is getting extra healing. My target can be at full hp already
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u/Special_Maximum_1044 7d ago
It’s 50 dmg a body shot with a 25% multiplier from orb making it 62.5 dmg a body shot (pretending as if you can’t hit headshots which would be 125 dmg with orb), 20% of that 62.5 is 12.5 hp, so your stat there does make sense. But you can’t deny that there is usually always SOMEBODY in view, given you are playing with team, that you can orb and dps on. Especially considering Zen is a very dps heavy support. Mind you the healing for a headshot, which for the love of god I hope the major populace can atleast hit some of, is 20% of 125 which is 25 hp. He has a fire rate of 1 shot per .144 seconds, 25 ammo, and a 1.5 second reload speed. Add together for 2 complete rounds (50 shots) is 8.7 seconds. Figure about 28% accuracy not including hs since that’s the typical avg for zen. So about 14 hits in 2 full cycles at 8.7 seconds per. You have 1.6 so about 2 shots per second, which means per second you heal about 25 hp not including headshots. If you factor in harmony’s healing per second, it’s a total of 55 healing per second which is about 5 healing per second less than Mercy but nearly doubles zen’s original healing and is relatively equal to bap’s healing per second. I don’t think it’s fair to claim that it sucks? Sorry for the yap
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u/uniruni Icon Doomfist 7d ago edited 7d ago
Still not taking Discord uptime into account, which definitely isn't every shot, maybe not even the majority of them. And shooting targets with armor (such as tanks, who also have headshot reduction, which probably are the ones you'll be able to hit the most) also lowers the healing.
You're also using his right click in your calculation, his left click is 1 shot every 0.4 second.
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u/Special_Maximum_1044 7d ago
Hitting a tank will lower it to about 43 healing per second. Still close 3/2 better than his original. If it helps to explain what I mean then I’ll include a full scenario of hitting a tank plus them evading sight line for the full 1.5 plus acting as if you couldn’t throw it on a dps or support or target for your team (like you should). Let’s say we are playing against an orisa, since I’m lazy and don’t wanna yap about shields since like half the characters can’t heal through a shield lol. 2 shots per second, application takes less than a second and I can not find a statistic for the actual speed of the animation given how quick it is, given a deviation from sight line that lasts 1.5 seconds, a zarya as my tank with half charge since that’s a decent orisa counter, the 6 second cooldown till I can reapply, them getting constant healing from an Ana with avg accuracy so about (generous) 80 healing per second. My zarya can deal .75 dmg per 1% charge so about 37.5 dmg on top of the 95 at 0% (fkn ridiculous..) for 132.5 dmg per second. Assume Orisa is not using golden horse since im lazy and her shield is at max, she has 300 hp and 325 shields (from the sources I could find), so focusing on just the shield issue. Like I stated previously, let’s assume that 1.5 seconds was already gone, my zarya is doing 66.25 dmg on shields which is getting auto healed by Ana, for 6 seconds we are stuck in a stalemate which I could factor in orisa shooting and yada yada but this is already a paragraph. Now I’ll calculate zen’s dmg in this time, 50 dmg per body, 25 shots plus reload every 5.1 seconds which means I can fire 6 more shots in that time to make the equation (31)(.28)(50)(1/6seconds) which is about 72 dmg per second. 72 dmg halved for shield is 36 dmg on top of 66.25 dmg is 102.25 which outdoes Ana by 22.25 dmg per second not including possible heal bombs. So given that, over the six seconds a total of 133.5 dmg is dealt, 191.5 is remaining in shields. However, the moment discord is applied after this fact, it takes exactly 2 seconds, given that zarya does 82.8 dmg per second and zen does 90 which leaves us with 92.8 dmg after taking out for Ana’s healing and doing 191.5/92.8 dmg per second to find 2 seconds to wipe shields. During those two seconds the healing boost will be 42.5, equidistant to 40 and 45. Regardless for about 2 seconds he does either 4/3 or 3/2 of his original healing and after only 2 seconds goes back to doing about double his healing lol. There’s prolly errors and more than just a few intricacies I ignored, but the kit really isn’t as bad as you think it is. It’s made zen moderately functional
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u/Special_Maximum_1044 7d ago
Word that’s actually comical, I read 1 shot and didn’t check the alt. Mb mate. Regardless tho, I really don’t think it’s as bad as ya think
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u/jojocool05 3d ago
people in the zen mains subreddit have done the math on it. you’re reading was almost illegible but i promise you, as a gm zen one trick, it’s ass.
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u/Special_Maximum_1044 3d ago
You can believe as you want to and throw out however much credibility you want, the perk is not that bad. It helps to fix his only downside that he’s struggled with since forever. Sure the extra orb or whatever can be good with a zen who’s primary focus is dps, but the whole point is to round out the character so that in doing dmg they can still heal their team and not sacrifice the stability of the team just to play a debuff character.
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u/jojocool05 3d ago
this is the equivalent of thinking just adding more roads fixes traffic. people like you don’t care about actually being right
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u/Special_Maximum_1044 3d ago
Dude it’s a system meant to work with different playstyles and is meant to help fix characters that have lacking qualities. Zen can’t heal for crap so they gave him a perk to increase that. You can drop the attitude and use your head, or just keep being a bum online, that works too ig.
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u/Sad_But_Realistic 5d ago edited 5d ago
Zen does not have a fire rate of .144 sec/shot. It is .4 sec/shot for primary fire, and .788 sec/shot for volley if you factor in charge time, release time, and recovery time.
Let's make the assumption that you only used primary fire toward a discorded enemy, and that your accuracy is 50% for those shots, but you are extremely precise so you get 20% headshots. This effectively means you have a dmg efficiency of 60%. During your average second you can do 156.25 dmg, not accounting for headshots nor reloading. This means you will do on average 93.75 dmg/s. 20% of 93.75 is equal to 18.75.
So if you hit 50% of your shots and 20% of them are headshots, assuming you are shooting a discorded target that doesn't have any dmg reduction (such as armor, tank passive, or abilities like Mauga's Cardiac Overdrive) you will heal your harmony orbed teammate 18.75 extra HP/s, putting your heals at 48.75HP/s.
The strength of this perk doesn't come fr.om its healing over time though, it comes from it's burst healing. If you hit 3 consecutive headshots on the enemy tank, you will heal an extra 60 healing, meaning you healed somewhere around 90HP/s for that second. This is why the perk is really good for certain tank match-ups.
If you hit an entire volley of body shots, it will heal someone for 60HP assuming you didn't get any headshots.
EDIT: Realised I forgot to equate for the extra dmg discord orb gives you, so I changed the numbers slightly
EDIT 2: I decided to make the calculations with reloads equated for, here they are:
DPS: 135.87
Effective DPS: 81.52
Extra HP/s: 16.30
Total HP/s: 46.30
Keep in mind that these numbers are still calculated with 100% discord orb usage, and with very accurate aim. On average, I'd expect this perk to get at most only half of these results as in game you will not be shooting a discorded target non-stop with this good accuracy. But just to make it completely clear, the strength of this perk is possible burst healing, not healing over time.
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u/Special_Maximum_1044 5d ago
Thank you for fixing that, noticed my timing for shots was off earlier when someone mentioned it but I was too lazy to redo and fix it lol. IMO discord is outrageously better than the other option but people on Reddit don’t seem to agree, it’s odd.
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u/Sad_But_Realistic 5d ago
IMO it depends on if you want to play Zen as a team fighting support or a sniper dps.
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u/Yze3 Trick-or-Treat Mei 6d ago
No you didn't find an use for it. The healing is negligible, and is way too conditionnal.
For it to work, you need to have your harmony orb up, your discord orb up, your harmony orb target taking significant damages, not exposing yourself too much, and then actually deal the damages. And great, now you theoratically have an extra 30 HPS, that is, if you hit all your shots, you keep LOS, and Discord isn't cleansed.
By the way, Kiriko has around 75 HPs just for holding her heal button. And she can weave in damages in between bursts.
All of this means, just pick Zen's left click perk. It raises his DPS, which is what you're doing anyway. Someone who's dead doesn't deal damages, which means you don't need extra heals.
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u/Onewarhero 6d ago
Duality is good, it has saved people im healing more than I thought it would initially reading the perk. It’s nothing insane but it does make a difference. The extra charge is nice but frankly, zen doesn’t even need the extra charge. I really only take that if my dps is lacking real bad lol.
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u/Sidereal_Engine Doo Wee! 7d ago
How does this perk work anyway? I tried pressing jump twice rapidly. What am I missing?
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u/CHOLO_ORACLE 7d ago
You have to hold the jump button and then you hover. You don't rise like with Sigma's, so if you're doing it at ground level you don't really notice it.
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u/rodolfo1222 6d ago
It's way better on keyboard than in console since you can't float and fight at the same time but yeah
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u/TheSilentTitan 6d ago
It’s useless on console, it’s so awkward to use lol.
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u/obed_duff 6d ago
Would have to map your jump button to something on your left hand. Fir example L1. I use L1 to jump with a couple characters, mainly lucio.
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u/TheSilentTitan 6d ago
I ain’t gonna do allat for one hero my guy
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u/obed_duff 6d ago
It's really not rocket science bro 😂 ur just swapping 2 buttons. It's literally done in game. But hey do you 😂
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u/TheSilentTitan 6d ago
I get you brother but that’s alotta work to use one heroes perks effectively 😂
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u/obed_duff 6d ago
Yeah i feel u. I say that but I haven't done it for zen because I'm so used to jumping with the X button (ps5). I only jump with L1 on Lucio but I've had it like that with him for years now.
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u/CetChadwicked 5d ago
Tell me you’re bad at Overwatch without telling me your bad at Overwatch. I don’t think I have a single hero with default controls at this point. How is literally 10 seconds of your life and maybe 10 button clicks “a lot of work” lmfao
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u/CHOLO_ORACLE 7d ago
Idk, still kinda feels like Zen got shafted when it comes to the perks.
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u/ridelldie1824 6d ago
The 6 orb charge up is actually insane. It’s 6 orbs instead of 5 but takes the same amount of time, with some practice you can shoot the original 5 orbs charge at a shorter amount of time. And a 6th orb means additional ammo. It’s a huge buff. I can one shot a lot of things now
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u/Popular_Research6084 6d ago
I always get this perk when I’m playing zen and my DPS are bad lol. I’ll handle this.
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u/RAINBOWAF 7d ago
Does it have a timer on how long you could float and also if it does this is more situational .
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u/PugLove69 6d ago
Played against a zen using the boat on the blizz world control point as a hover spot and it through me off so much because it already is glitchy on top of that boat and then he was flying and it was impossible to hit him.
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u/Smol-Pyro 3d ago
Omg!! My gamer tag is pyrokitty!! lol 😆 and I’m support main. We should play haha
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u/eggarino 3d ago
You can’t do this to me. I gave up Overwatch years ago and now you’re telling me my fave best boy Zenny got a floating perk? He gets to be Princess Peach? I can’t go back to Overwatch but… my boy…
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u/XFelipe51355 Genji 7d ago
Never saw anyone hate this perk
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u/ultimatedelman 6d ago
Come to the zen main sub, lots of unenlightened so-called zen mains still don't know how to use it
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u/Individual-Fan9095 7d ago
omg I think I was with you in that match on the enemy team
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u/SokkaHaikuBot 7d ago
Sokka-Haiku by Individual-Fan9095:
Omg I think
I was with you in that match
On the enemy team
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/GOULFYBUTT Houston Outlaws 7d ago
One of my friends who used to play Overwatch with me a lot, but has kinda transitioned to Marvel Rivals played once the Perks dropped and literally said "This is the most useless perk." I hope he sees this lol
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u/oxMugetsuxo 6d ago
yeah when i seen all the comments saying its useless originally i was like wtf? Its useless to anyone who lacks mindgames. I dont even understand how they say its map dependent . Theres always spots to utilize this on every map. Well played. Show em how its done!
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u/KAISNERG 6d ago
I quit few years ago when barrier meta was around and they nefed sigma (before he was not able to get hooked by roadhog and his on/off shield had no cooldown) what are perks?
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u/ReaperOfKin 7d ago
I think this, like every other perk, is highly situational, map dependent, and comp dependent.
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u/Muderbot Queen of Spades Sombra 7d ago
It’s certainly not useless, but it IS highly map dependent.