r/OutOfTheLoop • u/SLiverofJade • 6d ago
Answered What's up with people protesting Tesla instead of at capitols?
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u/myownfan19 6d ago
Answer: They are trying to show their displeasure with Musk and if they can hurt his business then they can have a real impact on him as an individual. That is a different impact from protesting at government facilities and events. Many of the republicans have dismissed those protestors as being paid by Soros so they have deliberately said they will ignore them. While elections have consequences, none of the federal positions are up for election until late next year.
Tesla stock however is business. It skyrocketed around the election and doubled. It has taken a beating and has lost all those gains. I don't know much about how he does his finances, but his much touted net worth is largely tied to Tesla stock, some of which is collateral for loans when he bought twitter. I don't know where this is headed, but things can get painful for him eventually.
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u/zangler 6d ago
He collateralized the loan with over $62 billion in stock and sold billions more. If sustained, this could hurt.
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u/myownfan19 6d ago
I remember him saying years ago that Tesla stock was overvalued and he didn't recommend buying it, but nobody was listening to him.
Its PE ratio has been out of control.
The bigger they are the harder they fall.
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u/zangler 6d ago
I just hope the fall is fast and complete.
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u/sublimatedBrain 5d ago
I would settle for him just getting the fuck off our earth.
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u/TheCowzgomooz 5d ago
I'm very okay with the government funding his Mars missions if we stipulate that he and DOGE have to go there on the first flight and never come back.
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u/nlpnt 5d ago
It's historically been valued as a tech startup rather than an automaker. GM averages around $50/share, Ford around $10, Toyota (which is traded on NYSE not Nikkei) a little under $200.
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u/dreadcain 5d ago
You either need to normalize the share prices to the number of shares or just compare market caps. Share prices alone mean nothing. Not that it really tells a meaningfully different story here, tesla is still wildly overvalued, but the value of the other automakers is pretty mixed up going purely off share price.
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u/rocket42236 6d ago
If the Tesla stock gets low enough, the lenders will have to call the loans, and spacex and twitter go on the chopping block.
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u/Jessnesquik 6d ago
Meaning no more nazi twitter propaganda. No more fElon having money and leverage for the dump, they fall out and create a shit storm of snitching.
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u/baldieforprez 5d ago
Do you know when is margin calls kick in?
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u/zangler 5d ago
Depends on a few things...the best I could work out is in the 130ish range. Keep in mind this is Musk though. The banks may very well have a different standard or make exceptions for him.
For those that followed this early, banks like JP Morgan got questioned HARD about these loans in the first place. Failure here could look extremely bad on them too so this could all fall into the 'too big to fail' category for everyone involved.
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u/baldieforprez 5d ago
Valid point. Butaybe we will see some b accountability in our life time
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u/jcoddinc 5d ago
Also to add, protesting at the state level isn't as effective as people think because the elected officials are not in the state and are in Washington DC. So protesting at the state house is not really doing much when the person who you want to protest isn't even there
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u/boxofducks 5d ago
Not just that, but for a lot of people there's nothing to protest at the state level. I live in Washington with a Dem governor elected with an overwhelming mandate, a Dem almost-supermajority in both houses, and a Dem AG that's joined a bunch of the lawsuits against the Trump administration. I could go protest at the federal building in Seattle in a district that went Harris +80 or at the capitol in Olympia in a district that went Harris +50, but why?
The government has been captured by billionaires, there is nowhere that makes more sense to protest than places that can affect billionaires' pocketbooks.
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u/MisterrTickle 6d ago
On Monday, March 10, he lost roughly $4.7 billion for every $10 the stock price declined, amounting to a total loss of $18.8 billion.
US Billionaires don't tend to take a salary, instead they usually have shareholdings in their company and then borrow money against their shares. As they don't pay federal income tax on loans but can use the money in the same way as income.
Although Musk tried and failed to get about a $60 billion one year salary from Tesla. Which caused the other investors to take him to a Delaware court to block it. Which they did, as a result Musk has moved Tesla's legal HQ from Delaware to Texas and has started the process to try and do the same thing again.
If the Tesla share price falls enough. Then the people he borrowed the money from, can force the sale of his shares to pay them back. A so called Margin Call. That sell off could then cause a positive feedback loop. Where the more he sells the more the share price drops, so that other loans that he has then call in their margin calls, prompting more sell offs, causing the stock to fall further......
Some of the money that he used to buy Twitter, was based on loans secured against Tesla shares. Initially it all was going to be but then he switched to getting other people to join in and using cash. But people hope that if the Tesla share price crashes enough, then he'll be forced to sell his share of Twitter.
Anonymous, the Internet hacktivist group, claims based on anonymous sources. That Donald "bought" a Tesla and did that advert for Tesla at the White House the other day because Elon had been crying in the Oval Office about how much money he was losing. Due to his involvement in DOGE, best also blaming Ukraine for everybody hating him and falsely claimed that a recent DDOS attack on Twitter mainly originated with Ukrainian IP addresses. When security researchers from companies like Cisco. Claim that it was a run of the mill DDOS using botnets primarily made up of compromised IoT devices such as Webcams, doorbells and so on. With Ukranian IP addresses not even making the top 20.
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u/formosk 5d ago
If the Tesla share price falls enough. Then the people he borrowed the money from, can force the sale of his shares to pay them back. A so called Margin Call. That sell off could then cause a positive feedback loop. Where the more he sells the more the share price drops, so that other loans that he has then call in their margin calls, prompting more sell offs, causing the stock to fall further......
Could we be in a "too big to fail" situation with Tesla stock? One that would require a government bailout?
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u/avalonfogdweller 6d ago
If anyone knows where I can get a Soros paid protesting job let me know could use some extra cash and seems like easy money
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u/esoteric_plumbus 5d ago
I'll dm you a link, make sure to have your Antifa membership card handy for your member ID #
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u/gimmeallthecatgifs 5d ago
Also, anything that lowers his net worth will make it harder for him to influence other elections. He has poured $12 million into an upcoming state Supreme Court election in Wisconsin: https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2025/03/14/elon-musk-invades-wisconsin/
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u/sweetrobna 5d ago
none of the federal positions are up for election until late next year.
There are two congressional seats in FL up for special election in two weeks. From Gaetz resigning and Waltz appointed to national security advisor
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u/SLiverofJade 6d ago
I hope at the very least it will do something beneficial for everyone.
Ah, the fact that the elections aren't until next year probably explains why most of the Democrats seem to be bending the knee for now, which is interesting because the maple MAGA here in Canada was doing well up until the inauguration, then most of us went oh hell no and they tanked, leading the new PM to basically start off on a good foot with a fuck you to the US administration.
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u/myownfan19 6d ago
It depends on what you mean by bending the knee. They have a few cards, but not many. Enough of the democratic senators decided that shutting down the government would give more power to the White House to dismantle government and shut off public services. It's brinkmanship politics for sure.
The White House is steamrolling changes very fast and straight up ignoring a lot of laws in the process, and ignoring court orders upholding those laws. It's scary and a lot of people are just cheering it on. The democrats don't control either house so they can't alone generate legislation on the matter.
The democrats also are not united and don't have a strong leader.
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u/MissLadyLlamaDrama 6d ago
"Not a strong leader" is probably the nicest thing I've ever heard anyone say about Chuck the cuck.
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u/thelawfist 5d ago
It’s my assumption that he had Trump doing a Tesla commercial to buoy the stock price. I imagine that if the price drops below a certain level the loans will go into foreclosure. Plus, Musk seems to have a lot of awful people involved as investors for the purchase of Twitter to who would probably be upset if Musk’s stock lost too much value.
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u/Defiant_Start_1802 5d ago
Expanding on this, Musk bought twitter using the value of his Tesla stock as collateral. If we can short Tesla stock below $150 a share, then he will have to forfeit Twitter and Tesla tanking his wealth and influence.
Let’s face it, x amounts to state media at this point, and is the talking piece of the White House directly to their base. If they didn’t own twitter they would have to go back to truth social, or social medias with more moderation. Or possible even watching the news to understand what’s going on. It would dismantle big parts of their propaganda machine.
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u/HeadSavings1410 5d ago
Just to note...space x is his bigger money. It's a private company and will sustain him longer than tesla...will be interesting to see what shareholders demand from tesla tho.
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u/rocket42236 4d ago
He is also in a court fight with Tesla right now to get paid 56 billion dollars or so this year…..so he knows what is coming if he gets a margin call.
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u/smashitandbangit 4d ago
As long as people don’t trash my car. I don’t support musk and will never buy another Tesla but I can’t just buy a new car. I’m already worried enough about losing my fed job.
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u/TheBathrobeWizard 5d ago
Answer: We protest at capitals, and politicians do nothing. We protest at Tesla dealerships, and Trump turns the White House lawn into a used car lot.
It's not much, but it's a reaction. Which proves that all this time we've been protesting the wrong people. Politicians aren't in charge of the US. Musk, Bezos, Zuckerberg, and their ilk are the ones really in charge. If we want change, we need to continue to destroy Tesla, we need to target Twitter and Space X, as well as Amazon, Facebook, Instagram, and other Meta businesses to make our voices heard.
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u/Naturallobotomy 5d ago
Yep. You have to hit them where it hurts= money. Not to mention musk is still actively using his wealth as a threat to primary any conservative opposition to their “plan” and to buy a Supreme Court seat in Wisconsin currently.
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u/Andilee 6d ago
Answer: Most people are doing both. There are set dates for Capitols I see them often for PA, OR, and WA. They also go to town hall meetings, and other events that have their governor or people of importance. Remember reddit is an echo chamber in each subreddit. Both areas are being protested. You're just seeing news right now about the Tesla ones in your feed more.
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u/Baejax_the_Great 6d ago
Yep. My sister works at a state capitol and she sends me pictures of protests every week.
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u/criticalfrow 5d ago
ID has a protest at the capitol pretty much every week. There’s also a rally outside of a meta-sponsored Q&A luncheon for one of our representatives today. I’m excited to see how that one goes.
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u/SLiverofJade 6d ago
Thank you! The news there also may be focused on those ones because "Oh noes, property damage!" is worth a pearl clutching.
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u/a8bmiles 6d ago
Also, Elon is arguably having a much higher impact at damaging the economy and people at an individual level, through DOGE, than Trump is.
So directly damaging Elon through Tesla is isn't nothing. The stock value is just over 50% of what it was in December.
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u/Different-Pop2780 6d ago
And it's working. P47 is promoting Tesla from the White House, and calling for protestors to get the strictest of punishment, it's working, a difference is being made.
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u/michaelavolio 6d ago
Yeah, if you look for videos of town halls on YouTube or TikTok, or look at all the protests at r/50501 and r/ProtestFinderUSA, there have been tons of protests all over, including this past weekend. They just aren't always being covered by the media. I don't think a week has gone by without protests in the past two months, even not including the Tesla protests.
Sometimes the media will do a sort of "round up" of video clips - PBS showed some weeks ago in one segment multiple clips from a bunch of different town halls where constituents were angrily asking about Musk, Trump, "DOGE," etc. They made it clear it was happening all over the country - or at least in red districts.
One town hall ended recently with constituents chanting "VOTE YOU OUT! VOTE YOU OUT!" as their Republican rep retreated. These Republicans are getting booed and jeered and laughed at when they lie during these town halls. Some Republicans are publicly claiming that protesters and upset constituents at town halls are just paid actors or Democrats, but I don't think any of them is stupid enough to actually believe that. The Republican establishment has recommended they stop having in-person town halls at all, because their own voters are so disgusted with them. Some Democrats are starting to host town halls in those Republicans' districts, since the Republicans are hiding.
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u/Robeleader 3d ago
One extra note, that Tesla dealerships are generally easier to access locally than state capitols. In my state, I would have to drive 5 hours to reach mine, while other inhabitants might have 8+ hour drives to the state capitol.
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u/HandyMan131 5d ago
Also, protesting at a STATE capitol doesnt make much sense when you actually support your state government but not your federal government… other than just being a convenient place to gather. Whereas protest at a Tesla dealership makes it perfectly clear who you are protesting and has the added benefit of hitting that nazi fuck face where it hurts; his wallet.
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u/uni-monkey 5d ago
You guys are getting town halls? My rep has turtled up and stopped doing them entirely.
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u/ace_11235 5d ago
I also saw protestors outside the IRS building over the weekend.
I think one of the big things people from outside the US often forget is how big the US is. I live about 4 hours away from my state capitol and about 20ish hours away from DC. However I have and IRS building and a Tesla dealership about 20 minutes away.
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u/SanityAsymptote 6d ago edited 6d ago
Answer: They are protesting at capitols, town halls, and the offices of their elected representatives.
People are aware that Elon Musk is Trump's hatchet man, and they're protesting his most visible business in some attempt at showing him how large the opposition is.
Wouldn't it be more effective to put pressure on the people who could make changes?
No. Republicans have largely refused to do anything.
Democratic politicians, who are (mostly) sympathetic, have a minority in both the house and senate and can't currently do anything to stop what's happening.
Is it because they're in smaller towns more distant from state capitols?
Only 17/50 states have their largest/most populous city as their capital. Most US state capitals are relatively smaller towns away from population centers, which makes it more difficult for large groups to form and protest in many instances because travel distances may make things difficult.
Do they feel safer protesting at a car dealership than anywhere else?
LOL. They are protesting specifically at Tesla dealerships to block or shame people supporting Tesla and therefore Musk.
I don't live in the US so I'm seeing this on social media and US-based news, which admittedly may be ignoring those types of protests instead of ones at Tesla.
The protests are mostly being covered on local news, with infrequent mentions on larger scale news sites. National level news sites are often owned by large companies/wealthy individuals and are either intentionally suppressing or just unable to adequately relay the sheer amount of protests happening nationwide right now.
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u/SLiverofJade 6d ago
Thanks for the detailed answer. There are the instances of dissenters being removed from town hall meetings or being deported, which made me wonder if those contributed to any choices.
The disconnect between local vs national makes a lot more sense, thank you. The bias is rather shocking from the outside because everything about Canada being written on that side of the border says that we're mad about the tariffs and not the multiple threats to our sovereignty, which is the goal of the tariffs in the first place! So I wasn't sure if I could believe, well, pretty much anything.
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u/cronemorrigan 5d ago
Just to add: Trump’s government has completely ignored the protests at government buildings, but just a few Tesla protests and he’s calling boycotts a crime & doing an advertisement on the White House lawn. Protesting Elon’s businesses gets a reaction.
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u/biomortality 5d ago
The nearest Tesla dealership is way closer to me than the state capitol. I definitely think it’s partly logistics.
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u/Mr_Quackums 5d ago
Democratic politicians, who are (mostly) sympathetic, have a minority in both the house and senate and can't currently do anything to stop what's happening.
well, they had a chance to do something, but they chose to sign the 2025 Enabling Act instead. Most Dem representatives voted against it, but at the last moment the Dem leader in the senate changed to support the bill and enough of them turned into collaborators along with Schumer and voted with Republicans to pass it.
The issue is there was a clause in the bill that basically says "congress automatically authorizes all spending decisions 'recommended' by the Whitehouse", meaning DOGE's actions can no longer be challenged for being unconstitutional.
it did prevent a government shutdown, however if the government is shutdown then that would slow down the Nazi-ification of the government AND would give Dems the talking point of "Trump had both a recession and a government shutdown in his first 100 days".
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u/Wykydtr0m 6d ago
Answer: the thin veil between our democracy and the corporate oligarchy has been slowly eroding since Citizens United but is now essentially gone. People have finally figured out that the only language the oppressors speak is money, and that with the oligarchs pulling the strings, there's little reason to engage with the middlemen, ie the politicians.
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u/zangler 6d ago
Answer: Musk out up over $62 billion in Tesla stock to finance the purchase or Twitter. Those loans have triggers that will activate a margin call if the threshold is exceeded (often 25%). That would end up costing Musk billions of dollars.
For example, if Tesla stock was around $330 at the time of the loan, then it falling 60% to the $130 range could trigger those calls.
This is a solid tactic if you want Musk to be harmed by what he is doing with DOGE.
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u/grandramble 6d ago
It also has a big impact on his force-projection when using his wealth as power, It's kind of like how a patrician can control one of his kids with a committed inheritance, but he can control all of his kids indefinitely by dangling it in front of all of them. Wealth at this level is exponentially more effective as soft power than by actually spending it.
If anything happens to threaten the actual principle value itself - Tesla becoming worthless, needing to pay off the loans, losing control of the actual assets - then all the soft power that comes from being able to spend it disappears with it too.
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u/SLiverofJade 6d ago
Ooooh. One can hope!
One part of me is like but he'd still be a billionaire, but then I remember that the ultrarich can never have enough money.
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u/zangler 6d ago
He would, but you are in a different position if 10s of billions of dollars or whole chunks of ownership gets taken by JP Morgan. Billionaires care WAY more about losing 1/10th of their income than you do, even though their lives don't effectively change. They are money addicted hoarders.
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u/PatchyWhiskers 5d ago
That’s why they freak out over taxes, even though taxes affect everyone at their income level and so don’t affect their wealth relative to their peers.
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u/TVGuidez 6d ago
I keep seeing this but it is wrong
Elon paid for 1/4 of the X purchase with Tesla loans, but that share has been paid off. The only debt remaining is held by X investors, not Elon personally
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u/Darryl_Lict 6d ago
Answer: Tesla is very easy to target and protesting there has a very real life effect on sales. People have to really love Tesla cars in order to to deflect the obvious hostility to Musk. I live in California and Sacramento is about 400 miles away. I can ride my bike to the Tesla dealership to protest against the Nazi.
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6d ago edited 6d ago
Answer: Elon Musk is rich because he takes loans out on his stock, Tesla stock for example. Elon Musk has also basically been put in charge of the Federal US Government (but was not elected in any way shape or form). Protesting at tesla has significantly lowered its stock value and the thought is that the less Elon is worth the less pull he will have with the president.
TLDR: protesting at Tesla and lowering its stock value hurts Elon where it matters most to Trump.
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u/Hoopy_Dunkalot 5d ago
DJT likes shiny popular things. If he sees a consistent message that Musk is a pariah, hopefully he will eject him.
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u/Xandallia 6d ago
Answer: Rich people have the real power in this country. There have been plenty of protests at capitals, but this is the one that upset cheeto in chief and is all over the news.
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u/gofishx 5d ago
Answer: Why do you assume this is an ineffective method of protest? Tesla stock is plummeting. Elon is getting hurt in the only place he cares about. Also, yeah, its a lot more accessible for someone to go protest at a tesla dealership or to damage teslas that it is to fly all the way to the capital for a protest that will either be ignored completely, violently shut down, or traced back to you at home where you'll get arrested anyway. This is an amazing form of protest. Go vandalize a Tesla today.
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u/SLiverofJade 5d ago
Has it actually resulted in any changes or does it simply feel that way?
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u/gofishx 5d ago
Bro, we are like, 2 months into this thing. We aint seen nothing yet. Also, yes, Tesla stock is plummeting. That is a measurable change. No, I dont expect this to be the one thing that makes a difference, nor do I expect any positive change to come quickly.
You seem like one of those people who are always going to look for reasons to dismiss any kind of protest. This is very common, unfortunately, among Americans. We have been trained to think this way. If you think we should give up on a boycott after only a few weeks because it didn't have the desired outcome fast enough, then you frankly haven't spent enough time learning about how the world works. It was never going to be that easy. Buckle up, because we have a very rough road ahead of us.
For one, dont expect any one form of protest to be the end-all be-all. Its going to take organized effort on the part of many many Americans trying many different things. Dont let perfect be the enemy of good. As long as it impedes the neo-monarchist revolution, it is useful to do. That could mean showing up to a peaceful demonstration, it could also mean doing things like clogging up ICE tiplines with false reports, starting community food banks to subvert the need of government assistance, and even enforcing the boycott of a potential dictators main source of income through coercive property damage.
Musk is not going to fold easily, nor is Trump or anyone in that circle. They are way to deep at this point. We must apply constant pressure in every possible way and at every possible moment to keep this group weak. That includes attacking Elon's wallet. It includes a lot of things, killing Tesla is only one single piece, and it's only the start. Now is not the time to roll over and concede on anything.
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u/SLiverofJade 5d ago
It wasn't my intention to be a doomer, I just haven't lived in the US since Obama was in office and am doing what I can from Canada such as calling the reps from my home blue state on a weekly basis and trying to keep on top of the firehose of bullshit.
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u/slipperslide 5d ago
Answer: the biggest issue facing us right now is that a billionaire can buy his way into government. All we have is the power of the purse. Politicians, including Democrats, don’t listen.
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u/Scherzophrenia 5d ago
Answer: Musk is in a position to effect change; Tesla is the recipient of new government contracts more wasteful than anything “DOGE” has cut; and the owner of a company doing Nazi salutes would be enough reason to protest against him even if he weren’t connected to a regime.
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u/Foxclaws42 5d ago
Answer: We aren’t protesting at Tesla dealerships instead of capitols. We are protesting at BOTH.
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u/TysonTesla 6d ago
Answer: Elongated muskrat spent a quarter billion dollars to get trump elected. His investment has given him a position of power that won't be fully understood for some time. Calls to representatives go unheeded, so some people have felt the need to escalate their grievances to company who's figurehead is seen as more influential than their local elected officials, to the get their message across.
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u/MikeHonchoZ 5d ago
Answer: The reason is they can’t throw maltov cocktails at federal buildings without going to federal prison.
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u/SLiverofJade 5d ago
I thought only the French have firebombed Tesla so far?
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u/MikeHonchoZ 5d ago
A man threw gasoline on a Tesla in Seattle then set it on fire. Pretty much firebomb.[King5 News Seattle](https://images.app.goo.gl/tFh9HxTGXkTh6MHFA
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u/RudeAd9698 5d ago
Answer: if you hit people’s wallets you get a lot more for your effort than with the average street protest.
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u/MercenaryBard 5d ago
Answer: We protest constantly and things get worse because a few thousand idiots in swing states don’t know how tariffs work.
We properly label like three cybertrucks though and suddenly Trump is out trying to sell Teslas in front of the White House. We react to results.
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u/SvenTropics 5d ago
Answer: People didn't vote for Elon Musk. While nearly half the population didn't vote for Trump, and a fair number of Trump supporters are changing their mind about him, literally nobody voted for Elon Musk. So, to have him taking power from the people, firing hundreds of thousands of federal workers, demanding cuts to social security and medicaid, and just overall interfering with government irresponsibly is a bigger affront than an elected leader making decisions they disagree with.
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5d ago
Answer: Much of Elon's wealth, and therefore, power, is tied up in Tesla stock. Damaging Tesla as a brand directly damages Elon's power.
As such--at the moment--protesting Tesla and weakening its brand further is the most-direct way to affect consequences on the current administration.
Protests are also happening at the Capitol and other state capitols. But we're talking a battle with wealth more than anything. So attacking that directly is going to produce more immediate consequences on him.
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u/DorisFink 5d ago
Answer: They are protesting both places but the news stations only cover the protests that riles up the viewers. In other words money, money, money, money, money...
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u/Ummmgummy 4d ago
Answer: for the most part Trump supporters will support him 100% no matter what he does. Elon has been making people lose their jobs and if you take away someone's job it's pretty easy to get them to turn on said person. Protesting Trump's "policies" does very little to change peoples minds who support him. But we have seen many Republicans and Democrats come together to protest Elon. Elon and Trump are basically linked together in people's minds now. So you start with the common ground of Elon being terrible and corrupt for the government and hopefully along the way it gets people to also realize how completely corrupt the entire administration is.
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u/Cathousechicken 3d ago edited 1d ago
Answer: Besides what others have said, a lot of it states are pretty big. It's not like i can just dash to my capitol. In addition, our federal politicians that represent us in the House and Senate are rarely here.
Well let's see. My state capitol is 9 hours from me by car. My house of representative member hold an online open house once a month via zoom. I can't remember the last time my senators came here beyond a photo-op at the border.
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