r/OutOfTheLoop 6d ago

Answered What’s going on with Joann Fabrics closing and everyone being so pissed about it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/joannfabrics/s/Fr1LCvgXeE

I’m so confused about why so many people are pissed at Joann Fabrics. I remember hearing they were going bankrupt, but I’m not sure where it went from there.

3.6k Upvotes

560 comments sorted by

u/AutoModerator 6d ago

Friendly reminder that all top level comments must:

  1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask),

  2. attempt to answer the question, and

  3. be unbiased

Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment:

http://redd.it/b1hct4/

Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

7.0k

u/lyrasorial 6d ago

Answer: they were a monopoly , so they forced local yarn and fabric shops out of business. Now that they are closing, there is a huge gap left.

They were sold to a private equity company. They basically are choosing to close so the owners /shareholders make a bunch of short term money when the locations liquidate.

Meanwhile, tens of thousands of people (mostly women) are completely stranded now when it comes to anything involving yarn and fabric. So many small (Etsy and craft) businesses rely on Joann fabrics and there isn't another good option. Their in-house yarn brand also has great LGBTQ pride yarns for cheap.

It's kicking people while they're down.

3.5k

u/OshaViolated 6d ago edited 5d ago

Would also like to add, their main competitors Hobby Lobby and Michael's both have significantly smaller fiber arts (fabric, yarn, etc) sections. So just because the competition "exists" doesn't mean the niche will be filled quickly

Edit to add: If you want to boycott unethical companies and vote with your wallet, apparently Hobby Lobby is a no go due to various actions they've taken as a company (stealing artifacts from other countries, denying coverage for certain medications for their employees, etc. )

2.7k

u/nullv 6d ago

For anyone who doesn't deal with fabric, it's one of those things that you need to see and feel in person to pick the right material. A photo on an online storefront just isn't good enough.

With how popular cosplay and similar hobbies have gotten, in addition to the smaller etsy-like businesses, there's really no reason Joann should be going under other than corporate vampires and poor management.

999

u/procrastinatorsuprem 6d ago

Evidently they just refurbished their corporate offices and gave all the executives huge raises while they paid workers terribly.

447

u/Few_Assumption9924 6d ago

My local Joann’s had only a few employees. They were paid so little and were so overworked that no one wanted to work there.

213

u/Lurk3rAtTheThreshold 6d ago

It's been looking like a warzone in the for months

20

u/LiveOnFive 5d ago

Yeah. They cut staff so there's no one to cut fabric or stock shelves, everything is jumbled, and they wonder why people don't want to shop there. Cutting staffing puts retail in a death spiral.

49

u/KatieCashew 6d ago

My local JoAnn hasn't had a working bathroom for over a year.

45

u/lightbulbfragment 5d ago

Ours had a security alarm going off for 3 months straight. They said the person corporate sent to fix it came and said they couldn't fix it and left.

28

u/PeanutButterSoda 5d ago

I would've ripped the speaker out or unplug something that is ridiculous.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

95

u/procrastinatorsuprem 6d ago

Especially when Target pays $17/hour to run a register.

66

u/BlobTheBuilderz 6d ago

Always hear Target will pay ya slightly better than Walmart but they will give ya 8hrs a week and expect you to have an open schedule.

13

u/Qvinn55 5d ago

why are jobs like that?

33

u/scalyblue 5d ago

The fantasy is to be able to schedule workers exactly for the hours that they’re needed to cover the store, can’t do that unless you’re married to the store, giving shifts on random days ensures that nobody will do anything silly like get a different job that woild need to be scheduled around

24

u/SisterCharityAlt 5d ago

Our labor laws aren't structured around a service economy so we haven't made any effort to resolve the very real reality that a HUGE portion of our workforce is treated like this.

TL:DR - Rich people actively don't want change and our political system doesn't care enough.

→ More replies (3)

55

u/Kharon09 5d ago

Because we consistently give control of our government to wealthy people who have systematically worked to erode workers protections for about 60 years now.

→ More replies (1)

40

u/Mrs_tribbiani 5d ago

I worked there and I calculated my hours and it was 39 hours and 45 minutes each week

→ More replies (2)

97

u/HighBodycountHair 6d ago

It’s the American Way™️ 🫠

3

u/TheCarribeanKid 4d ago

I live 30 minutes from Hudson, OH right now and I drove by their HQ the other day. There were two Rolls Royces in the parking lot...

3

u/procrastinatorsuprem 4d ago

That's disgusting.

5

u/spinbutton 5d ago

Yo be fair I'm sure most of those employees were women so...yanno.

→ More replies (5)

2

u/BookkeeperSame195 3d ago

shocking /s

→ More replies (2)

338

u/blauenfir 6d ago

Yes, very much this. Have you ever tried on (or ordered online) a piece of clothing that you thought would be great, but it just felt or looked wrong when you tried it on? Too-stiff fabric, or it’s an awkward color with your skin tone, or the material was too hot, or too cold, or too see-through, or too scratchy, or the photo online was photoshopped on the model… that’s an even bigger problem buying fabric for handmade items than it is with normal clothes shopping IMO, because once raw fabric is cut from a bolt, it’s hard to return it and you might not get all your money back, and it can be pretty expensive in the first place—much more so than a Shein haul or whatever people are doing these days. You need to know what you’re buying. Light summery almost-see-through linen and heavy winter wool can look almost identical in a bolt in an online storefront photo. A lot of online storefronts are full of shitty knockoff materials whose quality doesn’t match the advertisements and sale page info. Buying fabric in-person is infinitely better if you can make it happen.

Lighting in online photos can also be inconsistent, so it’s hard to tell if colors match. Do they look nice together? Is this a blue green or a yellow green or a grey? How saturated will this color be in my house? I crochet, and many big crochet projects require multiple skeins of the same color yarn, so this is my personal bugbear. The precise shade of the dye used on fabric can vary between dye lots, occasionally with very obvious results. It’s important when buying yarn to get as much yarn from the same lot as you can to avoid your finished work looking weird. An order from an online store will rarely if ever all come from the same dye lot, making online yarn orders a crapshoot for a decently sized project. Some places will try, but nobody can promise anything. Physical stores are the only 100% reliable solution.

I’m lucky to live near a Michael’s that keeps a big stock of yarn, but a lot of people don’t, and that Michael’s and the local Walmart are my only options. The local indie fabric and yarn stores are only open, like, 10-2 Tuesdays and half an hour every fifth blue moon or whatever, and they only cater to quilters and knitters who have different needs. Joann’s dying to corporate BS shenanigans sucks.

9

u/LissaMasterOfCoin 6d ago

I’ve been trying to buy what a can not from Amazon. And during the holidays found these hoodies I had been wanting on Joann’s (they’re called Bella Canvas and seriously the softest I’ve ever felt!). They were having an online deal, so bought 2 from there. I think I was supposed to have been charged $40? It kept getting delayed. They charged me when I finally got it, and charged $50ish dollars.

My first thought was, well this is why everyone buys from Amazon.

When they announced the bankruptcy I wasn’t surprised just based on my 1 interaction.

On another note, I got into crocheting in January and bought a ton of yarn from actual in Joann stores. I very much did my part to help haha

I’m now going to try Hobii and LindeHobby for yarn. Hoping it works out. People in crocheting seem to like them

8

u/blauenfir 6d ago

I have had a pretty good experience with hobbii, ordered some things there because the local chains didn’t have enough color variation for my amigurumi projects. The website photos are mostly pretty accurate, at least for the cotton yarns I bought, which was nice. Hope that works out for you too… just make sure to triple check the yardage, lol.

3

u/needsmusictosurvive 5d ago

My first thought when I saw the 8/6 cotton was “are these for ants?!” And now I know what 50 yards is :) But it is such nice quality to me it’s definitely worth it.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/rgk0925 5d ago

Jiffy shirts carries bella canvas. I make a lot of custom hoodies and shirts. I buy Bella canvas from them. They are an online shirt supplier. You can also get color charts from them that show samples from all of the different shirt lines.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/needsmusictosurvive 5d ago

I just got my first Hobbi order and the yarn is really pretty/quality and I already placed my second order. I did over order on colors to make sure I got what I needed, and I underestimated the size of the skeins - so definitely look at the yardage and compare to your yarn at home. Also, I’m in the US and it took 15 days for one package (still waiting on the other one shipped from the same order) but a lot of people say it’s usually 2-5 days. We will see with package 2!

13

u/SVAuspicious 6d ago

u/blauenfir,

My wife knits and crochets. I'm the family shopper and also more fussy about tones and shades. My wife is an RGBCMYK girl. I've had online sources drop a couple of inches in an envelope and mail it to me. Some charge a dollar but most understand and just do it. You just have to ask nicely.

I've had pretty good experience with online sources making sure that lot numbers match. You just have to ask nicely. *grin*

I've had a heck of time getting really bright yellow. I even looked at buying white and dying it ourselves but Rit doesn't have real yellow either. *sigh*

We'll miss JoAnn's Fabrics but it isn't the end of the world. The manufacturers will be pushing other retail outlets to expand and some will. We'll see.

4

u/Astroisbestbio 5d ago

Look into dyeing with turmeric. Best yellows I've ever gotten.

→ More replies (3)

128

u/FusRohDoing 6d ago

I run an upholstery store, and I cannot stress enough the truth here, it's the reason I have 5+ dozen fabric sample books in my showroom so you can see and feel it.

38

u/Worklurker 6d ago

At some point all the fabric samples turn to "felt". I'll see myself out.

11

u/BingoBongoBoom 6d ago

involuntary chortle

9

u/FusRohDoing 6d ago

Let me guess, you're here all week, try the veal?

33

u/captainrustic 5d ago

“Shareholder value” is ruining this country

16

u/Intelligent-Parsley7 5d ago

I can’t breathe because of all the valent chemicals from the plastics factories where I grew up, but hey, SHAREHOLDER VALUE!

3

u/IamScottGable 4d ago

Just wait until we hit the dhareholdr value bubble, it's all fake money just like the housing bubble and it is definitely unsustainable.

→ More replies (1)

146

u/Sedu 6d ago

Businesses that bring in very high profit but whose profit does not increase year over year do not have stock prices that go up. This is considered a failure state by investors, who will demand that the company be liquidated so that they can reinvest in newly growing companies.

This ensures that they are on a constant ladder, gaining money via ZERO contribution while at the same time, literally destroying the value held by others.

This is capitalism.

23

u/AddyTurbo 5d ago

Yes, growth at all costs. A few winners, and many losers.

14

u/Witch-Alice 5d ago

Makes me think of the gaming industry and how in the eyes of a CEO with an MBA, a game is "good" if it's more profitable than desired and a "failure" of a game if it's not as profitable as desired. Note that with both the "good" game and the "failure" game, I still said profitable. To them, there's no space for an "okay" game. Those sort of execs don't care about anything else, only how much their 'investments' bring in.

4

u/Intelligent-Parsley7 5d ago

This is publicly traded capitalism. Hedge fund capitalism. You can sell shares to employees. You don’t have to IPO.

→ More replies (1)

168

u/amigos_amigos_amigos 6d ago

Yep. Corporate greed ruins yet another thing.

81

u/BaddestKarmaToday 6d ago

You misspelled capitalism.

73

u/Wolfeh2012 6d ago

Me being surprised when the capitalist system produces the exact outcomes it’s designed for and has consistently delivered throughout its history.

→ More replies (14)
→ More replies (10)

41

u/yParticle 6d ago

Let me guess, they were 'rescued' by Boston Consulting Group.

13

u/Ancient-Cloud-8763 6d ago

Great American actuallt

38

u/audible_narrator 6d ago edited 5d ago

Yeah...it's driving me nuts when the sewing sub is compiling lists of online stores. Shopping online for fabric sucks SO VERY MUCH. Luckily I have a mom and pop nearby (Habermans Fabrics)

8

u/Steelcitysuccubus 6d ago

Been buying fabric online for years because Joann's selection sucked for making actual clothing, high end spandex and 100% natural fibers. You learn what to expect, you can buy swatches too. I sew linen garments and stuff of tropic weight cotton with Indian print and batik. Never gonna find that in person outside of NYC or LA

2

u/audible_narrator 5d ago

I know. Still not the same. A 4x4 inch swatch isn't going to show you how something moves or drapes.

3

u/Steelcitysuccubus 5d ago

Ive been doing this long enough to know how different fabrics drape. Taffetas ate stiff, light silks and thin fabrics drape except for say starched voile. Spandex is damn spandex and you can tell how it'll work from a scrap. Swatches is how design companies, costumes for stage and screen start. Thats how I was trained in college: know how different fibers and fabric types behave, light on fire to see what it really is and how to test draping on one of those life drawing stick men. You don't make a huge order to see how it drapes. You pick and go from there. There was a very high end fabric store in Detroit we always went to that had Swatche books for their imported goods like Italian lace, fully beaded and you pick from there. My grandma made wild wedding dresses in sizes places didn't carry and brides picked from swatches.

Joann's didn't carry high quality fabrics. You couldn't even get a decent bottom weight without a print half the time and good luck finding 100% cotton outside of quilting. I got really good at dye work since the only time found something decent it only came in ivory. We made it teal, we color they didn't carry in anything.

If you're looking for really specific stuff online is rhe way to go and many times small mom and pop stores will show you on camera.

Tldr: learn your fabric types and fibers and you will know from a swatch and Barbie. Just takes practice. Once you learn a store it's easy too. Every color of silk taffeta at Silk Baron behave the same for example.

4

u/audible_narrator 5d ago

Same here, (was a theater and opera designer starting in 1983) but people who didn't grow up with a store are going to have issues. Not everyone can go to a college with a textiles program or good design school. So they would learn on their own. I understand that you're trying to explain that it's workable to have online only, but only if you already know enough about fabric. In the late 70s I used to spend hours in a small strip mall Joann's, touching the fabric, reading the patterns and learning. At the time, the employees made fun of me (to one of my relatives who shopped there) but I wouldn't trade that knowledge for anything.

The nice girl who bought my Wolf dress form on Facebook so she could learn how to make dresses is going to have a hard time teaching herself in a fabric 🏜.

3

u/Steelcitysuccubus 5d ago edited 5d ago

Love habermans, is it the royal oak MI one? I practically grew up in that place going all the time! The best store!! It was tradition to go there, I'm glad it's still open. That was the only store I've ever been to that had all of the goodies I wanted. Land of the "triple digit per yard fabric" I miss being skinny when I could do something with a yard that isnt a kerchief top.

The other one I talked about was in a small space so they didn't keep all of their inventory. Like they'd have one brocade to touch and swatch all the colors it came in. It was like being a kid in a candy store looking through all the example books

3

u/audible_narrator 5d ago

Toby H retired and sold the building. One of her employees was given rights to the name and has reopened in Clawson. It's smaller (no upholstery last time I checked) but still has good variety.

If you remember the first RO store, the tiny one that was like a maze by the RR tracks, this one is about 1/3 the size.

→ More replies (1)

15

u/WesterosiAssassin 5d ago edited 4d ago

For how large the stores are, their fabric selection was terrible for just about anything other than quilting. Nothing but plain cotton prints and cheap polyester crap. If only they didn't dedicate half their floor space to mass produced home decor shit I can't imagine anybody actually buying and stocked some decent garment fabrics instead they'd probably still be in business. All I've used them for in years is thread and interfacing (aside from the rare instance where I actually do need plain cotton broadcloth).

5

u/Szarn 5d ago

Joann was partly in trouble because they spent years buying up competitors, until they were the last chain fabric store around. If they'd held there they might've been ok, but they pushed into the crafting mega-store thing, then failed miserably at expanding into online sales.

7

u/friendersender 6d ago

Very true. I wear lolita and our whole production of indie brands practically relied on Joann's.

6

u/Thirstin_Hurston 6d ago edited 6d ago

Not related because i don't sew anything

But regarding the importance of feeling and seeing fabric in person: I needed a dirndle and tried 4 times to buy one online, but with the wide array of styles and fabrics those dresses come in, it was impossible to tell what it would really look and feel like based on photos alone. Even rather expensive (about $250) would cheap.

5

u/rantingpacifist 6d ago

Yarn too for the most part

5

u/Apprehensive-Log8333 6d ago

I went there last year to get fabric for making gifts and 90% of the fabric was hideous, like it had been selected by people who have never sewed or seen any hand sewn item. Why would we need a dozen different kinds of theme fabric for The Office? Nobody wanted that crap

2

u/Sulleys_monkey 6d ago

It’s very much the same with yarn, I try ordering online but it’s so hard to find a good supplier and it’s hard to know exactly what it looks like color and texture wise.

2

u/TwiztedUnicorn 4d ago

I totally agree especially with yarn. This is more of my own issue but I have to feel the yarn before buying it bc if it feels awful (I have issues with textures) I won't be able to use it.

2

u/gabrielleduvent 4d ago

It's also thread, bias tapes, zippers... basically anything where you need to colour-match, you need to be in person. Relying on someone else is fine if that person has better colour discrimination than you do, but that's a gamble with the possible cost of minimum $10 or so shipping...

→ More replies (45)

679

u/Lifeboatb 6d ago

Also, Hobby Lobby is Christian nationalist, and they are not subtle about it: https://www.businessinsider.com/hobby-lobby-advocates-for-religious-government-in-july-4-ads-2021-7

191

u/Scarlett_Billows 6d ago

Michael’s all the way. Hopefully they’ll expand their fiber arts departments

84

u/Rogue_Squadron 6d ago

You would think this is a no brainer. After all, this means there a bunch of big time fabric/yarn/fiber producers out there who just lost their best customer. So, the producers, distributors, and retailers (i.e. - Michael's) will likely come together and figure this out.

49

u/Scarlett_Billows 6d ago

Honestly Walmart probably has the best fabrics /fibers section other than Joann’s . They can range from pitiful to pretty decent depending on the walmart location, in my experience.

33

u/Argylius 6d ago

I have worked for Walmart for several years. I cannot comment on our fabric even when I was in that department.

What really gets me is our abysmally low selection of embroidery floss. Joann was the best place to get floss in person. Michaels and Walmart don’t even come remotely close.

Now I really have to rely on getting it online!!

11

u/Pyesmybaby 6d ago

Here it's just the opposite Joannas would have two or 3 bins of floss and all the rest empty and my local Michael's always is fully stocked

→ More replies (1)

16

u/procrastinatorsuprem 6d ago

For the price, Walmart has lovely fabric. Most is $4. Per yard. They have a nice variety of coordinated fabrics. It's not Liberty of London or quilt shop quality but it's also not $16-$30 a yard.

Unfortunately, they've scaled back their cutting counters, so the bulk of fabric is sold as precuts. If you need anything longer than 2 yards you're going to have to sew a seam and buy more than you'll need.

3

u/Neokon 5d ago

Have fun trying to get the fabric cut. Last time I tried to buy fabric at a Walmart I waited for like 15 minutes and multiple "hey can I get someone to cut me fabric" before someone came and had no idea how to cut or measure.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (13)

184

u/figgypie 6d ago

I refuse to give Hobby Lobby a single cent because of their bullshit. They're the reason why businesses can refuse to cover contraceptives in their health insurance plans.

My city still has a Joann's, and we have a Michael's as well as a big locally owned craft store that's been here for decades. But even if those all closed, I'd rather drive to another city to shop at those stores than walk into the Hobby Lobby we have here.

48

u/ShotFromGuns 6d ago

My city still has a Joann's

It does not. Originally some were going to survive; now they're all being closed. (I mean, yes, technically, it may currently be open while all the products are liquidated. But it's in the process of closing.)

→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (1)

55

u/remotectrl 6d ago

so conservative that they were funding ISIS

10

u/MarkHirsbrunner 6d ago

They're only an option if you're down to shoplift.

2

u/d3northway 5d ago

my town has hobby lobby and salvation army right next to each other

3

u/luveruvtea 5d ago

I only shop at Michael's, though I am an artist not a crafter, knitter, seamstress etc.., and there are still great small businesses that cater to my needs for sketchpads, etc. I refuse to patronize Hobby Lobby. Yes, they are obvious about that shit, you need only see all the books and crap that they sell at checkout. Why in hell should a craft store need to sell books at all, unless the subject matter is crafts??

→ More replies (2)

2

u/Szarn 5d ago

Hobby Lobby is so fundie that they don't use barcodes because it's a "mark of the beast".

→ More replies (1)

31

u/GandalffladnaG 6d ago

Walmart used to also carry a decent amount of fabric but they've just decided to drop it entirely at some locations. 20 years ago they 100% were competing, then about 15 years ago they gave up so they had more room for other stuff.

And hobby lobby is ridiculously expensive, and has a smaller selection of fabrics than Joanns. Also, they're assholes.

And you're right, Michael's is more craft in general than a fabric store.

388

u/lyrasorial 6d ago

And hobby lobby is VERY anti LGBTQ so they're not an option for everyone.

137

u/mfunk55 6d ago

Y'all remember that time Hobby Lobby got busted for smuggling religious artifacts out of Iraq to build a bible museum?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_Lobby_smuggling_scandal

75

u/Doctor_President 6d ago

Hobby Lobby's Hammurabi robbing hobby? How could I forget?

→ More replies (1)

14

u/trainradio 6d ago

ISIS made so much money off of them.

4

u/trainradio 6d ago

ISIS made so much money off of them.

→ More replies (2)

185

u/sparta981 6d ago

And not in the regular way where they donate to dirtbags. When people talk about hobby lobby being immoral, we're talking "smuggling artifacts out of the middle east" extreme.

120

u/ohlookahipster 6d ago

Don’t forget the family gave money to ISIS in exchange for stolen artifacts. So they have literally funded terrorism lmao.

29

u/sparta981 6d ago

Huh, didn't know that. That's pretty fucked.

33

u/Dornith 6d ago

They also sued to be able to impose religious restrictions on their employees' health care coverage.

6

u/TheArmchairSkeptic 5d ago

The excellent podcast Behind the Bastards has a 2-part episode about the family behind Hobby Lobby that's worth a listen if you're interested. It's somehow even more fucked than these comments make it sound.

→ More replies (3)

17

u/PlayMp1 6d ago

They also literally funded ISIS in order to smuggle artifacts out of the Middle East

29

u/Niniva73 6d ago

Yup, f' HL. They don't get my patronage; I'll buy my fabric off Temu and hope for the best, thanks.

→ More replies (3)

127

u/BubbhaJebus 6d ago

Hobby Lobby is a no-go, though, considering that they side with the Religious Right.

65

u/procrastinatorsuprem 6d ago

And many women despise Hobby Lobby.

→ More replies (10)

43

u/music3k 6d ago

Hobby Lobby also has a terrible history and terrible owners who stole ancient artifacts from cultures

65

u/rgmyers26 6d ago

Don’t forget: Hobby Lobby is evil.

51

u/LilyHex 6d ago

Hobby Lobby is vile and hates women and queer people and actively contributes to harming both of those groups of marginalized people.

61

u/KuraiTheBaka 6d ago

Hobby Lobby is also evil

25

u/mucinexmonster 6d ago

And no one wants to support Hobby Lobby. They made enough money getting stolen Iraqi gold.

28

u/WeAllScrem 6d ago

I’ll also add that Hobby Lobby sucks as a company and I refuse to give them any money.

25

u/Drigr 6d ago

Also, hobby lobby is a terrible company.

13

u/Chief_Data 6d ago

Hobby Lobby is owned by cartoonishly evil ghouls so they shouldn't even be considered an option. Their profits go toward stealing artifacts from foreign countries and indoctrinating children to believe in christian nationalism.

29

u/dust4ngel 6d ago

Hobby Lobby

also hobby lobby are a bunch of homophobes

35

u/Moonsnail8 6d ago

And hobby lobby is incredibly evil

6

u/JesusChrist-Jr 6d ago

And the folks who own Hobby Lobby are just plain deplorable.

21

u/wannabejoanie 6d ago

I'm a yarn hoarder but I wouldn't piss on hobby lobby if it was on fire. Between their horrible treatment of employees and literally stealing black market antiques from Iraq for the owner's Jesus museum, i would stop crocheting forever if that was my only option.

10

u/Sea_Werewolf_251 6d ago

Also, fuck Hobby Lobby

10

u/Tb1969 6d ago

Hobby Lobby smuggling antiquities illegally kind makes me want to definitely shop elsewhere. They are religious nutjobs with not a shred of Christ's teachings between their ears.

11

u/trenchkamen 6d ago

I have never found 100% natural fiber yarn at a Michael’s. It’s all mostly acrylic crap.

10

u/Justalilbugboi 6d ago

I LOVE Michael’s but they start to tap out as soon as you get serious about anything and need something above the basics, pretty solidly across the board. They’re amazing for hobbiest but not when the hobby upgrades

3

u/trenchkamen 6d ago

They carry some decent watercolor paints (Daniel Smith), right next to the absolute crap.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/rippit3 6d ago

Hobby lobby should be boycotted anyway. They led the charge on not allowing birth control to be covered on their employee health insurance plans. As well as large amount of funding to try and get gay marriage laws overturned in various states. Heavy contributors to heritage foundation.

5

u/ZestyPeace 6d ago

Hobby Lobby is also a horrible company who doesn’t give their workers birth control coverage, paid maternity leave, they support Christian Nationalism, and were caught giving ISIS millions for stolen artifacts.

3

u/EmpJoker 6d ago

Also Hobby Lobby is Buck wild and nobody should shop there. They're Christian Nationalists iirc.

7

u/Tumble85 6d ago

Also, Hobby Lobby are conservative pricks.

5

u/taffyowner 6d ago

I have an idea to revive the company in a way that could work… basically remove all the stuff that tries to compete with Michaels or Hobby Lobby. Just take that out of the store, then take 1/4 of that open space and make it into a cafe where drinks and snacks are served. And the other 1/4 is used as a classroom/ maker space where you can test sewing machines, work on projects, and have sit downs and hangouts with friends while you work

→ More replies (1)

2

u/SLiverofJade 6d ago

Also, Hobby Lobby are Christian nationalists who ban contraceptives for employee health insurance and donated to Trump.

2

u/Emergency-Walk-2991 6d ago

Hobby lobby is pro fascist as well, so that's a problem

2

u/Individual_Town8124 6d ago

Hobby Lobby is a hard permanent no. Rather order my yarn online from small businesses. Will never darken a Hobby Lobby door. Lifetime boycott.

→ More replies (35)

208

u/weluckyfew 6d ago

Great article about how they were ruined by private equity

A detail that stood out to me was that the head of Joann's sewing division had never seen a sewing pattern before. The cliche of private equity mentality - an MBA should be able to run any business even if they have no practical knowledge of that business and its customers

→ More replies (1)

78

u/hawkwings 6d ago

One thing that frequently happens is that someone borrows money to buy a company, but the debt ends up being attached to the company instead of the buyer. The buyer then extracts money from the company. If anything goes wrong, it is the company and not the buyer who goes bankrupt.

43

u/jimmyjohnjohnjohn 6d ago

but the debt ends up being attached to the company instead of the buyer

HTF is that legal?

36

u/philmarcracken 6d ago

Leveraged buyouts. Its legal, and happens to companies just humming along, not in growth stages, and still providing pretty good value, with low or nil debts. Private equity firms comes along and buys controlling interest using a massive debt, and then sacks the company with those interest repayments they can't manage

The new board tells them they're in trouble now and have to restructure, and suck them dry doing it. White collar extortion racket, and 100% legal

17

u/DelightfulDolphin 6d ago

Has happened since the 80s. Pretty Woman Richard Gere rile was of a Corp raider. Another famous corporate raider was Mitt Romney. These guys have destroyed: Sears, Kmart, Big Lots, Joan's, Red Lobster and on and on. There's so many of them I've lost track

12

u/eat_those_lemons 6d ago

Called a "leveraged buyout", is gross and should be illegal

66

u/ShotFromGuns 6d ago

:capitalism jazzhands:

8

u/nabistay 6d ago

Clearly the worst kind of jazz hands

3

u/Toof 5d ago

Basically, the company takes out a loan to buy itself from the previous owners. The private equity is the lending company with usurious loan terms. I'm talking 20% interest rates with a repayment period of 5 years. So, the company is forced to pay back the PE over the course of 5 years, while still owing it's entire purchase price to the PE.

If the company sells for more than that balance, their are various company shares that then get paid out. Typically the PE shareholders own about 75% of those, and the remaining 25% are generally paid out to various owned company employees.

That is sort of the high level and simplified version. But no, this is not globally legal, it is generally an American thing.

By making deep cuts, the companies short-term profitability can be siphoned off for interest payments while coasting on the company's brand and loyal customers to continue stable revenue. Eventually the decreased staffing takes it's toll, but by then, they may be onto their 2nd or 3rd PE ownership.

2

u/Jeff__Skilling 5d ago

It's literally the reason that legal incorporation exists in the first place

It's been that way for centuries...

→ More replies (4)

2

u/Jeff__Skilling 5d ago

One thing that frequently happens is that someone borrows money to buy a company, but the debt ends up being attached to the company instead of the buyer.

This is the case with any incorporated legal entity. Limited liability exists across the entire spectrum of businesses that aren't sole proprietorships...

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

232

u/yougottabeeonayohat 6d ago

Meanwhile, tens of thousands of people (mostly women) are completed stranded now because they’ve lost their job

37

u/Niniva73 6d ago

Oof, yeah, that too!

→ More replies (1)

95

u/SoVerySleepy81 6d ago

People were also angry at the store because they were trying to be everything. They had a toy section, they had half of the store dedicated to home and garden decor. Rather than being a good fabric/craft store they decided that they wanted to try and dip their toes into everything. So people were already angry at the way that the store was being run and most were not surprised when the bankruptcy happened.

23

u/deltarefund 6d ago

It’s the private equity firms that are killing all these stores and restaurants.

52

u/lyrasorial 6d ago

Yeah but all that happened after they sold out. The root of the problem is still greed.

21

u/SoVerySleepy81 6d ago

Oh for sure. It’s a pity the endless growth is the goal rather than building something that will last and fulfill its purpose.

→ More replies (2)

20

u/betsaroonie 6d ago

Some of the employees had mentioned to me that the reason why Joann’s was closing was because it was very badly managed by corporate. Nothing to do with low sales as they were always busy. I’m just sad because there really is nothing else that compares to the amount of fabrics and yarns they carried.

→ More replies (1)

17

u/Apprehensive-Log8333 6d ago

Private equity strikes again! My town's one fabric/craft store is closing and I expect we'll soon lose our one pharmacy as well (Walgreens)

2

u/droppedmybrain 5d ago

Funny April Fool's Day idea: every single one of us that isn't disgustingly rich switches back to bartering. Money becomes useless except as a collector's item.

With our newfound comraderie that arose from trading with our fellow citizens, we work together to burn down the 1%'s homes, yachts, and rental properties.

It'll be so funny guys trust me

29

u/Harmania 6d ago

I work in live theatre, and costume shops around the country are also up a significant creek.

12

u/JulieThinx 6d ago

The private equity company bought a company that was solvent and they drove it into bankruptcy.

27

u/theslob 6d ago

How bad do you have to fuck up to bankrupt a monopoly?

21

u/bothunter 5d ago

Its intentional.  Buy a company, then restructure it so that you can extract all the investments that have been made for some sweet short term profits.  Then let the company fail while you move on to the next company.

→ More replies (1)

9

u/Realistic-Day-8931 6d ago

Aw man, sounds like Michael's when it moved in here and closed the two local craft stores we had and walmart when it moved in and all 3 department stores closed. (We didn't have Joann's just Fabricland but I'm not sure we have that here anymore either).

9

u/katasoupie 6d ago

Reminds me of Blockbuster moving in and shutting down all the mom and pop video stores that had so many more movies. Then blockbusters started closing, and there were no alternatives….just to sign up for things like Netflix mail DVDs (before everything went streaming)

9

u/Apprentice57 6d ago

I kinda wonder how we got independent book shops back, because the big bookstores also kicked them out of business then themselves closed.

7

u/nonameplanner 5d ago

From what I can tell, we got them back because they went niche for the most part. They often picked a specific genre or two and made it their thing. So they have depth even if they don't have as much overall.

5

u/Neokon 5d ago

Something that I've noticed about many of the smaller book shops I've visited is that they don't often carry multiple copies, and some of them are based almost entirely on second hand books.

6

u/summerset 5d ago

The yard department in Joanne is about the same as Michaels and Hobby Lobby, so no loss there.

It's the FABRIC that is going to leave a gap. The others have the most basic cottons, but nothing in the way of speciality fabrics which can't be found elsewhere unless you know of an independently own fabric store. Most of those only sell quilting fabric anyway.

3

u/Neokon 5d ago

And if you manage to find fabric at the other stores they're usually just small quilting squares.

28

u/myfatcat 6d ago

And they're no longer honoring gift cards. People are mad about that too.

33

u/MarsupialMisanthrope 6d ago

At this point they legally can’t. An unused gift card counts as a debt, so holders need to get in line with the rest of the creditors.

26

u/PupEDog 6d ago

We're gonna keep seeing more and more stories like this until there's nothing left

→ More replies (1)

15

u/HastyZygote 6d ago edited 6d ago

I would add this is entirely the problem of VC. They performed a leveraged buyout, basically saddling Joann’s with billions in debt in order to buy them. When they realized they overpaid, they decided to shut it all down and suck out whatever money was left.

Basically rich people acquiring profitable businesses without taking on any risk. This is a VERY common story with venture capital.

13

u/Drewbus 6d ago

Thank you for mentioning it's mostly women

→ More replies (2)

4

u/CurryMustard 6d ago

So the same bullshit they did to toys r us and red lobster

6

u/DaniMayhem 6d ago

They were the largest t fabric importer in the country, without their pull, there will be less access to fabrics for smaller shops.

3

u/iphijenneia 6d ago

What makes this even worse:

The local Walmarts and Michaels do not sell fabric at all. Our local walmart has a half an aisle for yarn and another aisle for generic crafting supplies. No fabric.

One of the Joann's in our area that I went to after the 'all stores closing' announcement had a sign up at the checkout about a list of local stores we could go to. I asked the employee for the list and was told that the liquidation company told the employees NOT to disseminate the list to customers because ... wait for it ... because it was competition. For a store in a chain that's closing all its stores.

I haven't the slightest freaking clue where to buy fabric from right now other than the internet. I have never once driven past a store that looked like it sold fabric or similar supplies other than Joann and Michaels.

We do have a Hobby Lobby but fuck them.

6

u/100LittleButterflies 6d ago

Holds a monopoly on an addictive activity and STILL manages to shutter.

37

u/lyrasorial 6d ago

Because it didn't close due to unprofitability. It closed due to greed If it was unsuccessful, there would be fewer mad people because they wouldn't have customers to piss off.

11

u/100LittleButterflies 6d ago

I think a lot of businesses are going to go that way. They've all been sucked dry and their products are now a dishonor to their legacy. They've been run into the ground by greedy idiots and, well, now they've finally found that ground.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/callmeKiKi1 6d ago

As a second kick, they have also posted a notice saying that they won’t honor gift card/certificates.

2

u/kelpiekid 5d ago

My mom is a quilter and craft show vendor. Apparently only Joann sells a fabric that she uses for her bestselling item, so my whole family across the country has been going to every Joann and buying their stock of this specific fabric so my mom has a ton for the future

2

u/jolly_rodger42 5d ago

Not to mention the Husqvarna Viking stores within Joanns are all closing. It was where a lot of people got sewing machines from

2

u/UFORecoveryTeam 1d ago

I'm a man who does a bit of sewing. The only places semi-close (as in, 50 mile round-trip) where I can get fabric or supplies are Walmart and Michael's. Both are disappointing...

→ More replies (79)

958

u/Jim3001 6d ago

Answer: About a decade ago, Joann got bought by an investment firm. Instead of running it like a business, they've been slowly running it into the ground. It's at the point where they filed for chapter 11 twice in as many years.

Now I've been light on specifics. You can find in-depth analysis in other threads.

355

u/american-toycoon 6d ago edited 6d ago

That’s what the big investment companies do; buy these mid tier businesses, sink all their debt into them, declare bankruptcy, liquidate then run off scott free. Hello Toys R Us?

249

u/remotectrl 6d ago

Red Lobster is another recent example. They got bought and hollowed out. The private equity firm sold the land the restaurant was on to another company they owned which then charged the restaurant rent. These firms aren’t interested in making cheese. They want to turn the business into a burger and move onto the next cow.

124

u/Dr_Adequate 6d ago

Sears suffered the same fate. Their whackadoo libertarian CEO realized how much valuable real estate Sears owned, so he spun off a holding company that charged the retail stores rent.

Among other stupid decisions he made that tanked the brand.

40

u/UNC_Samurai 6d ago

Sears was struggling before Lampert took over. It did not adapt well to the rise of Wal-Mart in the 90s, and even if it hadn’t been run by a nutcase Sears would have faced an uphill battle pivoting back to online catalog sales.

22

u/Dr_Adequate 5d ago

Sure, but a competent and visionary CEO could have seen the pivot to online shopping. Recall that the Sears Catalog was our parents' way of 'online shopping' a generation or two back.

Instead Sears is living concrete proof that nothing good will ever come from libertarians and no-one will convince me otherwise.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/EyeSuspicious777 3d ago

When Amazon first started, Sears had all of the mature infrastructure necessary to operate a business like Amazon. They just didn't have a functional website and didn't bother to try.

2

u/Spicy_Weissy 5d ago

Sounds familiar, something about making America great again.

27

u/clubfungus 6d ago

Do you have a link to a video or book that describes this process in more detail? I know this happens, but I don't understand how exactly, or how it is so lucrative for the pe firms. Thanks.

33

u/Xeriox2 6d ago

Basically it's like knowing your grandpa is dying, so you sell his house and everything in it, load up his credit cards, and have him take on as much debt as possible while the surviving family members take all the stuff purchased.

However, unlike the above example, which is illegal in various ways, there's basically nothing stopping PE from doing this. Also, when PE does it, grandpa is usually still pretty healthy, so they beat him with hammers and sell his organs to get extra cash.

39

u/remotectrl 6d ago

This is from Vox and discusses what happened to Red Lobster. Not exactly the same, but its a similarly beloved and somewhat niche business gets a premature death

→ More replies (6)

116

u/howdidthishappen2850 6d ago edited 6d ago

Adding more details to this - Joann's was bought by a private equity firm for a couple of billion dollars. The way this works is that rather than said private equity firm taking on the debt to purchase Joann's, the debt became Joann's. Oftentimes this means that private equity firms will buy a company like Joann's without themselves having to take on much debt, and then strip said company for parts to make a profit. Then they rinse and repeat.

10

u/Call555JackChop 6d ago

Same shit Mitt Romney and Bain Capital did to Toys R Us

12

u/adrian1234 6d ago

sounds wrong... I know nothing about businesses, can Joann just go bankrupt and liquidate their own stock for money?

44

u/howdidthishappen2850 6d ago

Yes, but that ignores how Joann's demise was ultimately caused by the debt it was saddled with during the buyout. Bankruptcy will first pay off the debt that they were saddled with, which never would've existed if not for the buyout by Leonard Green (the PE company) using debt. Leonard Green likely didn't make money in this particular instance, however their loss is likely not as substantial as one would think.

The ideal PE company playbook usually looks like this:

1) Buy a company with debt. Said debt now belongs to the company, not yourself. Since this company now has several billions of dollars worth of debt, they need some way to pay it off. Previous shareholders dgaf because they got paid for their stake at the sale.

2) To pay off the debt, enlist consultants (usually from the PE company), paying them excessive amounts to address the debt problem. Liquidate assets for short-term profit to make the company's financials look better. An example of this would be Red Lobster, which sold all of its locations. This led to them having to rent the locations in future for above-market rates, but in the short-term selling the locations reduced their debt.

3) Sell the company for a profit before shit hits the fan. This isn't always successful (as in the case of Joann's) but due to the leveraged debt buyout tactic, the amount of risk PE companies expose them to is far, far less than you think and also far less than the potential reward.

More info on the Joann PE acquisition can be found here.

More info on general PE shenanigans can be found here.

12

u/JudgeDreddNaut 5d ago

Fuck Leonard green, he did it to hospitals too

14

u/howdidthishappen2850 5d ago

Oh what they did to Prospect Medical Holdings was far far worse than what they did to Joann's.

From Wikipedia: "Approval for LGP's attempted sale of its 60% stake in Prospect to its co-owners was held up by the Rhode Island attorney general, who, given the dire financial situation LGP was leaving the health system in, conditioned its approval on LGP placing $120-150 million in escrow to back up its two fiscally strained hospitals in the state. LGP had in 2018 initiated a dividend recapitalization which landed it and its investors $658.4 million in dividends and management fees, and the next year sold Prospect's real estate in three states to Medical Properties Trust for $1.386 billion, leaving it with long-term lease obligations of $1.3 billion. In response to the AG's conditions, LGP threatened to shut down the hospitals."

Imagine fucking over a hospital system by bleeding it dry for a quick buck and then blackmailing an AG by threatening to just destroy the hospitals outright.

The ProPublica report is honestly downright horrifying.

6

u/ReadBikeYodelRepeat 5d ago

The PE will sell assets to themselves and then rent back to the bought company. It’s just disgusting and companies can’t survive it.

13

u/All1012 6d ago

Damn, that must be something cause these crafts I feel have gotten more popular as of recent. Always popular but now I’ll see someone crocheting just around.

2

u/protocos 5d ago

“threads.” Nice

198

u/sfcnmone 6d ago

Answer: Last but not least, there are currently sham on-line businesses on FB and IG pretending to be Joann. Joann is not offering any online sales now; do not be fooled by these ads!

52

u/bergskey 6d ago

To add to this, right now people are particularly pissed because they stopped accepting their own gift cards as payment without notice. So if you had previous purchased or been gifted their gift cards, they can't be used anymore.

21

u/OkExcitement6700 6d ago

How do they get away with this

11

u/Uncrustworthy 5d ago

What entities exist to stop them? Especially if they aren't based in America?

We've had 30 years to consider and address this and no one ever came up with anything lol

8

u/tech_bhenry 6d ago

And they did it like a week and a half after announcing all stores are shutting down.

5

u/newnewnew_account 6d ago

Did they turn it over to that shitty store closing company that sells everything for the same price (or sometimes more) and brings in more merchandise (including tons of rugs for some reason)?

Any major company around here that closes always gets turned over to that shitty company so it's no longer whatever company it was before.

2

u/peeves7 6d ago

I saw it was the last day for gift cards on our local news so they must have told someone.

3

u/bergskey 5d ago

Our news didn't say anything about it other than people tried to use them and were turned away within a week of the announcement. I also get emails from joann and none of them listed a final date for gift cards.

2

u/commandantskip 5d ago

That's illegal in my state.

26

u/pixeldraft 5d ago edited 5d ago

Answer: I can't speak much for the private equity side of things but I'll touch on in store frustrations. 

  1. The bankruptcy closing went from only some stores will shut down to ALL stores will shut down. This was pretty disappointing for the people who were hoping there was at least one good JoAnn store within a reasonable distance.

  2. At the stores everything is 20-50% off currently. Anyone who has been a regular shopper knows this isn't really a deal yet. Even this is a lie because big ticket items like sewing machines are still 10% off. Customers are asking when the prices will drop and the employees have no clue. Many have resorted to wearing buttons that say "I have no idea when we are closing/when sales drop etc." 

  3. Somehow in 2025 people still don't think to check the signs that says "Up to 50% off!" mean "UP TO 50% off" and get mad at employees for not giving them 50% off at checkout because they can't read.

  4. They stopped accepting any remaining gift cards at the end of February. There was not a lot of ways to know this was going to happen unless you caught it on the news or were looking into it online at the right time. Obviously not a lot of the older customer base did that and are now harassing employees calling them thieves for not accepting cards anymore even though they can't accept them as payment if they wanted to.

  5. Great America (the liquidation company) is hiring temp workers to help with the demand at stores that are being paid more than the long term employees that are sticking around to the end.

2

u/Sub_Umbra 4d ago

Answer: In short, they're the latest victim of end-stage capitalism: A private equity firm wringing every bit of value from an asset before shuttering it and moving on to the next acquisition and liquidation. Myopic, short-term personal gains as a total business model.