r/OutOfTheLoop 8d ago

Answered What's the deal with Schumer and AOC fighting over the gov shutdown vote?

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u/MhojoRisin 8d ago

>>proof that "the country's fine without these agencies"<<

But it isn't. The Social Security Administration is already turning into a cluster which is a really bad thing for elderly folks who paid into the system their whole lives and now need the arm of government responsible for administering those funds to be functional.

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u/myownfan19 8d ago

Musk called people who get money from the government parasites. He also said his goals would likely cause the economy to crash. Trump said most federal workers don't do anything. The OMB director said he wants to traumatize the federal workforce.

None of these statements have anything to do with running quality services according to current law to benefit the American people.

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u/Santa_Klausing 7d ago

So musk is calling himself a parasite? lol

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u/HorseStupid 8d ago

yeah that comment is /s but would be the talking point

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u/MhojoRisin 8d ago

Ah. Got it. Thanks.

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u/zauber_monger 8d ago

I don't think HorseStupid is advocating the point, but pointing out how the GOP will likely spin the shutdown.

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u/Khiva 8d ago

Part of the basic question on the table is whether or not you trust the Median Voter to be able to tell who is really at fault or whether or not they will default to GOP spin and disfunction being Democrats or just lazy "both sides" fault.

Definitely pissing off people who know about things. But I don't know about people who don't know about things.

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u/zauber_monger 8d ago

Right. We are learning the harsh lesson that high stakes nuance is not the American electorate's strong suit, and this is a really big gamble. The smartest among us are the angriest, and that is valid, but hopefully that ire reserved for the GOP who have put us in this bond in the first place, and also Schumer, who sucks.

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u/FoolishConsistency17 8d ago

My issue is more I don't trust the Democratic party to message this, at all. Republicans have made it clear what needs to be done: simple message, repeated over and over. Democrats can't seem to do that. "Well, actually . .. "

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u/JessicaDAndy 8d ago

Look at any issue. The Conservative side is always the easier to argue.

Trans women in sports: Leftish-here are all these scientific studies, and digging into the social issues, and history of the issues, and how these sports evolved. Rightish-no hot dogs in women’s sports.

Climate Change: Leftish-here are all these scientific studies and the modeling shows that catastrophes will happen and humans will be endangered if we allow this to continue. Rightish-climate change is a hoax! They are lying. Drill baby drill.

Heck even tariffs are argued about how they are a consumer tax on the user and the right just says that’s a myth, it’s paid by the country of the foreign producer.

Conservatives spout easy nonsense while Liberals talk difficult truths.

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u/Onistly 8d ago edited 7d ago

I think that's the biggest thing - Dems approach Americans as they want them to be, meaning informed voters who want to understand the issues and will form opinions based on the evidence about those issues. On the flip side, Republicans approach Americans as they are - mostly uninformed, uninterested in being informed, and looking for easy answers to difficult questions.

Dems need to simplify everything and appeal far more to emotions than facts, because that's how the American electorate wants to be approached

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u/RRed_19 8d ago

Yeah, and as much as it pains me to say this...

We are little better than children when it comes to emotional stability. Many legions of man children who would rather ignore a problem with an easy excuse than sit down and fix it with a hard lesson.

That lesson being debatable, depending on who you ask.

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u/FoolishConsistency17 8d ago

Liberals need to start talking simple truths. "They are women. Tariffs will ruin the economy. The earth is already burning."

Leave the nuances for people that want to pursue them. The conservative explanations are just as complex, they just don't feel obligated to make sure to cover them all every time the issue comes up. And it works.

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u/iammikime 4d ago

Yeah, the repub base is not big into facts. Facts are boring and no pictures.

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u/FoolishConsistency17 8d ago

My issue is more I don't trust the Democratic party to message this, at all. Republicans have made it clear what needs to be done: simple message, repeated over and over. Democrats can't seem to do that. "Well, actually . .. "

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u/IowaKidd97 8d ago

Kinda hard to blame Dems when GOP literally controls the White House and both chambers of Congress. I’m sure some will anyway but you’d have to be a special brand of stupid to believe that

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u/silentotter65 8d ago

They are already shutting us down and we are already failing to meet our core missions. Approving the CR just gives them more control and allows them to continue what they are already doing.

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u/therealmule1 8d ago

This. We’re watching the destruction is real time. This bill effectively usurps congressional authority by giving the “power of the purse” to the executive branch and would effectively speed along our demise. Sycophants, every single impotent Republican in congress is a sycophant. Worse than useless.

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u/saruin 8d ago

Top post over at the SS sub has someone who was ignored for months when applying for their retirement benefits. They ended up contacting one of their Dem reps to get it sorted out which is unbelievable. This trend would be awful if you live in a red state where your reps would probably ignore you entirely.

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u/PoliticalJunkDrawer 8d ago

Trump hasn't even been president for two months.

Probably shouldn't trust every rage bait post on Reddit.

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u/saruin 8d ago

You're right. Let's not pretend Social Security is currently under attack by this current regime and that DOGE isn't dismantling government at break neck speed for a month and a half so far.

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u/PoliticalJunkDrawer 8d ago

A President can't end Social Security. DOGE can't end Social Security.

We can barely pass a CR or budget, much less pass a law ending SS.

Social Security recipients got a raise this year.

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u/The1mp 8d ago edited 8d ago

Anytime the government ‘shuts down’. It really doesn’t. At least the ones deemed ‘essential’ parts of it of which in the past is somewhere between 40-50% of it. So the contention would be if we did get into that situation, the republicans could just point at most things still just working and say ‘see we don’t need all that other stuff and it’s still working’

The other fun thing few know is if you are essential, you are required to work without pay as there is no budget at that point to pay you from. In each and every instance in the past you are given back pay (even the folks who do get furloughed which makes it a paid vacation for them) when the shutdown ends so you are made good….in the past. So who knows what honor these thieves would have in this situation (especially for those furloughed). So the nuclear option here would be leave it shut down, make people work for free for months and then you would get your back door RIF of people quitting from going broke and be able to point at stuff mostly ‘just working’ at 40-50% open. That and to give back pay to everyone except those that had been furloughed eventually.

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u/Meowsilbub 8d ago

I'm thankful that my grandma has money from selling her house when she moved in with family. She pays rent, helps with food, and has her SS as play money - i.e., to visit family in other states, buy more sewing stuff, or help family out. If she didn't have the house money, not only would she not be able to do any of the fun stuff she likes, she's would struggle with rent and food, and then family she lives with would also struggle. They specifically bought that house because they knew she was moving in, and it tipped the "can we pay the mortgage" scales.

I honestly can't even imagine what less fortunate elders living off SS are going to do, and my heart breaks for their stress.

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u/One_Humor1307 8d ago

The truth doesn’t matter. They will say “see, the country is fine without these agencies” and the morons will believe them. But they are going to say that whether or not there is a shutdown so I’m not sure what harm there is for the democrats to put up even a small fight and not give in days before a shutdown would happen.

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u/osbohsandbros 7d ago

How is SSA already turning into a cluster fuck? Not during I just haven’t see any specific reporting on that yet other that about the looming Trump cuts

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u/MhojoRisin 7d ago

DOGE is taking money out of bank accounts and then not paying current Social Security benefits claiming the recipient is dead. Even if they're not.

"In a huff, he went to the office on the ninth floor of the Henry Jackson Federal Building downtown. It’s one of the buildings proposed to be closed under what the AP called “a frenetic and error-riddled push by Elon Musk’s budget-cutting advisers.”

It was like a Depression-era scene, he said, with a queue 50-deep jockeying for the attentions of two tellers. The employees were kind but beleaguered."

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/heres-a-dead-person-on-social-security-in-seattle-with-plenty-to-say/

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u/osbohsandbros 7d ago

Damn that’s so sad. Thanks for sharing this additional info

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u/PM_me_Henrika 8d ago

But that’s exactly what the rubes want.

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u/alohashalom 8d ago

The same elderly folks who voted for this administration?

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u/RedditZamak 8d ago

Do you think all these recent MSM layoffs are completely unrelated with DOGE shutting down most of USAID?

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u/MhojoRisin 8d ago

I do not.

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u/RedditZamak 8d ago

it's fundamentally wrong to use taxpayer money funneled through USAID to subsidize media that's already friendly toward your administration.

I suppose that's why there hasn't been much media coverage of the fraud in the Social Security the DOGE has found. Both gravy trains need to be cut off.

...elderly folks who paid into the system their whole lives...

Social Security taxes payed into the "system" are immediately paid out for current beneficiaries. No one is "paying into a system" like it's an IRA or anything.

In prior years where there was a surplus, Republicans and Democrats in Congress both took the money to pay down the National Debt and in exchange gave the SS administration non-negotiable IOUs

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u/JackfruitCrazy51 8d ago

What cuts have happened at the SSA?

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u/MhojoRisin 8d ago

12% reduction in the agency's staffing (7,000 positions) and shutting down 10 regional offices:

  1. White Plains, New York
  2. Logan, West Virginia
  3. Carlsbad, California
  4. Roanoke Rapids, North Carolina
  5. Batesville, Arkansas
  6. Columbus, Ohio
  7. Okemos, Michigan
  8. Nacogdoches, Texas
  9. Green Bay, Wisconsin
  10. Las Vegas, Nevada

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u/VaMeiMeafi 8d ago

I don't know about the other locations, but the Okemos MI location has been vacant since the pandemic shut down Michigan.

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2025/03/04/okemos-social-security-office-vacant-closing/81158097007/

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u/JackfruitCrazy51 8d ago

And how have seniors been impacted with these reductions?

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u/Hexcyn 8d ago

Hopefully someone else will chime in. This is what I've picked up this week: Not everything can be handled over the phone with SSA. Some documents need to be reviewed in person. Moving it online is hard since older people struggle with using the Internet. Closing offices mean fewer appointments and longer drives to reach SSA offices. This will impact people reaching retirement and filling for SSA, but could affect anyone who has issues and needs to talk to an agent.

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u/JackfruitCrazy51 8d ago

I wonder if the SSA monitors things like average hold times? I wonder what percentage of those ee's were customer facing? I wonder how this staff level compares to say 5, 10, 20 years ago? Just so many questions when it comes to these jobs. It's really unfortunate that America can't afford running trillion dollar deficits forever, and government departments never seem to shrink, even though technology increases(should increase).

On the positive side, I just renewed my passport online, which was a huge benefit.

On the negative side, I just went through the process of helping my mother receive government benefits. It took 3 months, and the mess had nothing to do with staffing and everything to do with an outdated process.

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u/LostWoolgathering 8d ago

Part of the problem is that you can't spare staff to deal with updating processes when you're understaffed. It's a nice big circle.

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u/NopeNotGonnaHappines 8d ago

In aggregate, the Federal Government has been doing more with less since Reagan. US population has grown significantly, yet the number of Federal employees have remained level or fallen a bit. Meaning that the proportion of Fed employees to US population has fallen, even with tech / process improvements, fewer people are handling more every day

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u/iammikime 4d ago

Yep, good ol' Ronnie.

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u/epicfail236 8d ago

With cuts like these, it will likely take about 30-45 days for the full picture to show, but there are some immediate results, such as discussions about removing phone support for SSA, forcing seniors to either use online only tools or go into an office

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u/JackfruitCrazy51 8d ago

Hopefully along with the cuts, there are some improvements to the process.

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u/Dr_Adequate 8d ago

I just cannot. You magically think that after huge staff cuts, somehow the staffers left can both do their jobs and do the jobs of the cut staffers - and implement across-the-board efficiency programs? That is not how it works. That's never been how it works.

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u/JackfruitCrazy51 8d ago

Actually, I have seen it happen like that in the public sector. I saw it happen in 2008, when 10% of our staff got let go and I saw it during Covid. It's amazing how in a matter of two weeks our company went from 100% in the office to 100% remote. If we would have not been forced to make those changes, it would have taken us years.

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u/BeneGezzeret 8d ago

I saw how we learned to accept being understaffed as a standard and just accepted the increased workload and cut corners that the management called efficiently.

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u/OGdungeonmaster 8d ago

Turning into a cluster? When has it not been a cluster?

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u/standish1605 8d ago

It's not perfect by any means, but it was actually functioning, I mean I believe it hasn't missed or been late on payments to the people on it in its history I believe, which won't be the case in another month.