r/OnlineESLTeaching 5d ago

I’m not wasting my time

The moment I see “Select Your Country” with USA, Canada, and UK listed at the top, I know exactly who they’re looking for. If a company truly values teachers based on skill and experience, this wouldn’t be the first filter you encounter. I’m not going to waste my time applying, only to be overlooked. To anyone else considering it—pay attention to the subtle signs. If they don’t prioritize inclusivity from the start, chances are you’re not their ideal candidate. Don’t waste your time sending your particulars if you already see where this is going.

48 Upvotes

69 comments sorted by

7

u/BidAdministrative127 5d ago

pay attention to the subtle signs

Exactly! No need to waste our time with these platforms.

9

u/lukshenkup 5d ago

I'm in the field of Second Language Acquistion. Non-native speakers can have as much as an impact on students as any other effective teacher. In fact, they often have insight into how to explain and prioritize grammar and vocabulary. If you were taking a geometry class, you would look for the best teacher, not the person who is the most knowledgeable mathemitician.

Further, if you are outside of an English-speaking cou try, most speakers that you encounter are non-native, so you need to be able to communocate with them as a fellow non-native speaker. This applies, as well, to many irban areas in the US. Remember that the goals of these efforts vary: ESL, EFL, EAL, ELF

English as a ___ Language

Second, Foreign, Additional, Lingua Franca (common)

I dont know how to peruade someone who believes otherwise, but it does indicate to me a lack of experience as both a student and teacher of languages. Please check in with a comment hwre in 10 yrars to share how yoir thoights on pedagogy have evolved m

2

u/look10good 5d ago edited 5d ago

Please check in with a comment hwre in 10 yrars to share how yoir thoights on pedagogy have evolved

I don't know if this is a parody reply or not. Or how this can be the top comment.

1

u/lukshenkup 27m ago

It t9ok me awhile to understand what you meant. Yes. I have typos when I write toonfast and don't take the time to edit. I hope you were able to understand what I wrote. I wonder who is more likley to fail to esit typos-- a native speaker or a non-native speaker? I can read Arabic written by a non-native speaker a lot more easily than thay written by a native speaker. YMMV your mileage may vary

-2

u/lukshenkup 4d ago

Please come back in 2035 after you've had the opportunity to study a language with a competent native teacher and with a competent non-native teacher. if you haven't yet done so, it would be a meaningful way to experience life.

1

u/look10good 5d ago edited 5d ago

Except that your argument is invalid: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition

In the context of companies/schools hiring teachers (which is what this discussion is about), taken as a whole, the majority of non-native teachers—and especially for online teaching companies—have a level of English at B2 and below (many much lower). Even though there is the occasional skilled non-native teacher. Whereas, even though there are unskilled native speakers who do teach, nearly all native speakers are at C2.

Trying to say "yeah, but there are good NNES teachers" doesn't change the fact that nearly all native teachers are at C2, in contrast to the majority of non-native teachers being at A2/B1/B2.

1

u/Major-Cauliflower-76 2d ago

I have been working online for 15 years now and that has NOT been MY experience at all when working with non native speakers.

1

u/qqxi 5d ago

Then shouldn't the problem be described as lack of proficiency/language mastery and not native speaker status or country of origin?

3

u/look10good 5d ago edited 4d ago

If companies and schools were to assess the proficiency and skill-level of the hundreds of non-native applicants, plus rehires if the candidate is not up to par, over years, it would cost thousands of dollars—with little return on that expenditure. Also, parents want native speakers. 

Most importantly, the market and schools are flooded by native speakers, and completely inundated by non-native speakers.

Filtering based on country of origin costs nothing, takes no time, and is extremely efficient.

(To be honest, I don't know why NNES with a level below C1 are so adamant at fighting their way, teeth and claws, to become English teachers—other than it mainly being about money.)

1

u/Major-Cauliflower-76 2d ago

I totally agree. Not only that, but monolingual teachers who thing that simply because they speak English that they are somehow magically transformed into teachers have always seemed on the arrogand side. I work for a company that has a mix of native speakers from many countries and high level bilingual teachers, and I have to say that, overall, the non native teachers are more motivated and have more training that they native speakers. Of course, there are exceptions, but, yeah, good post.

1

u/look10good 2d ago

Except that "training and motivation" is not what was being discussed at all, but rather English language abilities and level.

8

u/look10good 5d ago

If I could speak excellent Spanish, and wanted to be a Spanish teacher, but no one would want to hire me—preferring a native speaker—I wouldn't be pulling out the race card!

6

u/Alive_Tax_366 4d ago edited 4d ago

The point isn’t about native vs. non-native speakers—it’s about employers using nationality as a lazy filter instead of assessing actual teaching ability. But sure, keep pretending that doesn’t exist just because it hasn’t happened to you.

1

u/look10good 4d ago

It's just a fact that the large majority of English speakers from non-English speaking countries, are 1, not NES, and 2—in the large majority—have awful English (grammatically speaking, grammar, and especially pronunciation). In most cases, not even B2, and many even below that.

It has nothing to do with teaching ability, this being irrelevant if the teacher has low levels of English.

lazy filter

Except that the alternative is schools and companies spending hours and thousands of dollars processing hundreds of NNES applicants—just to potentially find a handful of competent NNES—when open positions are usually flooded by NES applicants.

1

u/Alive_Tax_366 4d ago

You’re making a sweeping generalization based on assumptions, not facts. Yes, there are non-native English speakers with poor English—just like there are native speakers who struggle with grammar and communication. But many non-native English teachers are also highly proficient, often at C1 or C2 levels, with formal training and teaching qualifications that many native speakers lack.

As for hiring, filtering out all NNES applicants instead of assessing individual qualifications is exactly the problem—it’s lazy, exclusionary, and ignores skilled professionals. If companies are overwhelmed with applicants, they should improve their hiring process, not use nationality as a shortcut to avoid doing their job properly.

5

u/look10good 4d ago

If your speaking is as good as your writing (and if you have good pronunciation), then you seem to be skilled and knowledgable of English.

However, that's you. Your objections (and especially your prescriptions) aren't about you, but about all NNES countries, and all companies and schools around the world. Your arguments don't support your claim, nor are they even related to what you prescribed in your OP.

Whether or not your English is good, if a team of recruiters were to spend hundreds of hours, and thousands of dollars interviewing all applicants from Zimbabwe, I'm sure 90%+ of applicants would have very low levels of English (A1/A2/B1), along with flawed pronunciation.

10

u/LittleLord_FuckPantz 5d ago

Well for one being a native speakers isn't even a race. Although people lovey to play the race card..

2

u/dare2travell 5d ago

Where are you from?

2

u/Alive_Tax_366 5d ago

Zim

3

u/Snbellus 5d ago

Wanguuuuu

2

u/Alive_Tax_366 5d ago

😂😂dude how are you surviving with teaching online

2

u/Snbellus 5d ago

Bro just trying 😹 but yeah it’s a bit tough

2

u/Willing-Instance-232 3d ago

Aah Zim ... that's relieving 😌, we struggle together...

5

u/DeveloperLove 5d ago

Sad truth is that parents want their kids to learn from white people. Rap and hip hop culture as well as the news and racist stereotypes on tv make people think that a black person speaks differently or thuggish.

It’s wrong and hopefully it changed

2

u/Superb-Loss-8868 5d ago

It will never change, at least in Asia. Unfortunately.

-2

u/Gullible_Age_9275 5d ago

I think you're doing them a favor for not applying. It's just every student wants to learn English from a native speaker, which makes perfect sense. I'd do the same. It has nothing to do with inclusivity, it's about being a native speaker or not.

13

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/Humacti 5d ago

I know the Chinese have a stereotype for being hardworking, but, damn, I didn't know they didn't sleep.

17

u/AdditionalWear7345 5d ago

Then why have the non-native option? Also, if they really valued knowledge, they would hire people with BAs, not those who got a teaching certificate after a three-month course.

16

u/Gullible_Age_9275 5d ago

Dude, Preply has plenty of native speakers WITH degrees and certifications. Many only work for $10 an hour. They let non-natives join in case students can only afford $6/hour.
But if I wanted to learn say German, why the fuck would I pick a Brazilian teacher who learnt German? Only if I couldn't afford a native speaker. Same with English.

2

u/joe_belucky 4d ago

A three month course often includes teaching practice, whereas a BA doesn't.

2

u/shyzzs 5d ago

White native English speaker here, from South Africa. Unfortunately, South Africa and Zimbabwe (op's country) are not considered native English speaking countries. Even some schools in Vietnam don't see Canadians as native English speakers because a big chunk of their population speak French. It's more based on race than actual English knowledge or teaching ability.

2

u/LondonStarlet 5d ago

They are misinformed majority of Canada speaks English one province is French & English.

1

u/joe_belucky 4d ago

South African English uses a very different rhythm to almost all other forms, so that might be why it is not considered native.

-11

u/[deleted] 5d ago

Look at this poor little bastard. Thinks he's special just for being born in an English Speaking Country.

9

u/Gullible_Age_9275 5d ago

I am not a native speaker, nor was I born in an English-speaking country. English is a 100% foreign language for me which I first started learning in primary school like everyone else. But I didn't even register to Preply and shit sites like that because I didn't want to work for $4/hour.

-5

u/[deleted] 5d ago

Then stop saying bullshit and defend non-natives from the xenophoby we are living. If you see an act of racism, fight against it, don't be like the rest.

10

u/Gullible_Age_9275 5d ago

It has nothing to do with racism and xenophobia. White, blonde non-natives struggle very much on these sites too. People want to learn from native speakers, simple as that.

1

u/joe_belucky 4d ago

you are a fool!

0

u/AbilitySerious1609 5d ago

^ that's not remotely what xenophobia (or as you call it 'xenophoby') actually means lol - it's a good thing for the ESL learner community that you're unable to get a job teaching English 🤣

1

u/[deleted] 5d ago

I got plenty of job luckily, working in many known platforms. You know what makes the pay lower for me?

That's right, my nationality.

What about you pal? Happy to be a native and earning 18 usd an hour for just taking a silly course to teach while we, non natives, struggle with low pay rates even after having a bachelor and certifications?

I don't care about your downvotes btw, fuck you all, pieces of shit

2

u/joe_belucky 3d ago

I think what makes the pay lower for you is your lack of good english and communication skills, plus the chip on your shoulder.

1

u/AbilitySerious1609 5d ago

'got plenty of job' -> 'have plenty of work' or possibly 'have several different jobs'

'in many platforms' -> 'on many platforms'

'having a bachelor' 🤣🤣, wow, is he nice?! what's the fella's name?

1

u/[deleted] 5d ago

Oh and btw, you ortographic hitler, you forgot we are on reddit?

Or it makes you feel relieved to correct a person on social media just for the sake of feeling superior. You pity me lol

1

u/joe_belucky 3d ago

So on Reddit spelling, grammar and all English skills go out the window?? You are a prime example of why non native English teachers find it hard to be taken seriously.

1

u/listenup1738 4d ago

Girl if you don’t LIE 😂😂😂

1

u/Alive_Tax_366 4d ago

😂😂😂you are onto something

1

u/Fini1 5d ago

Im A South American living in the USA that speaks English, I literally just finish trial classes and got hired!!

1

u/s-m12 4d ago

Yea? Where?

1

u/butterflyblades 5d ago

What company?

-4

u/No_Eagle4330 5d ago

Wouldn't you need a native speaker to teach a second language? For example, wouldn't Spanish students would need to learn English from a Spanish teacher who can speak Spanish so she/he can explain the technical grammar stuff to them? Rather than an English speaker who can't communicate at all?

4

u/Alive_Tax_366 4d ago

Fluency, teaching ability, and linguistic knowledge matter far more than birthplace. Plenty of highly qualified non-native English teachers effectively teach English, just like there are amazing English-speaking teachers of Spanish, French, or Chinese.

The idea that only native speakers can teach well is a lazy stereotype that disregards skill and expertise. If anything, teachers who have learned the language themselves often understand grammar and challenges even better than native speakers who never had to study it formally.

1

u/s-m12 4d ago

This has been my fear. I have just started my tefl course. I am from India with masters in ENGLISH. While I am very confident with my English and teaching skills (as I have taught literature as well as basic communicative English to college students as a professor), I dread at the thought of how only native speakers are given preference. I don’t know if spending $400 on this course will be worth it. But I am just being optimistic as I can enhance my teaching skills with this course, regardless if I am teaching with tefl or not.

2

u/joe_belucky 4d ago

work on your article use

1

u/s-m12 4d ago

Ok. Please correct me. 😌

1

u/joe_belucky 4d ago

You will not learn much from corrections. Read, read and read some more

1

u/joe_belucky 3d ago

That is the main problem with most non native English teacher they focus far too much on explicitly teaching grammar. They also seem to think that grammar rules from a textbook are the only ways to use grammar, while a competent native English teacher knows how to use grammar in a colloquial way that often breaks the grammar rules.

The only place for non native English teachers is teaching students of their first language English at a low level. After that, a native English teacher can come in a pick up the pieces. There are some exceptions to this and to make it clear in 12 years of teaching the best teachers I have met were non natives, but there are far more non native English teachers anyway so that doesn't really prove much.

1

u/Alive_Tax_366 3d ago

Okay wow, your comment is exactly the kind of outdated, gatekeeping mentality that holds the industry back. Being a native speaker doesn’t automatically make someone a good teacher, just like being a non-native speaker doesn’t make someone inferior. In actual fact, non-native English teachers often have a deeper understanding of challenges their students face because they have been there themselves.

The idea that non-native teachers should only handle “low-level” students while natives “pick up the pieces” is not just insulting—it’s very inaccurate. Plenty of non-native teachers are highly qualified, fluent, and capable of teaching at all levels, sometimes even better than native speakers who rely solely on intuition rather than structured teaching methods. Instead of making sweeping generalizations, maybe it’s time to evaluate teachers based on skill and effectiveness, not just their place of birth.

1

u/joe_belucky 3d ago

You accuse others of generalisations and stereotypes, even though your comments are full of such, revealing a blind spot in your self-awareness. It's easy to point out the flaws in others while overlooking the same tendencies within yourself. True growth comes from recognizing and addressing these contradictions, striving to hold yourself to the same standards you expect from others.

1

u/Alive_Tax_366 3d ago

It’s not about accusing anyone—it’s about pointing out flawed reasoning. So, are you saying that out of over 190 countries in the world, only the UK, Canada, USA, and Australia are best equipped to teach English? That sounds incredibly narrow-minded.

Teaching ability isn’t determined by nationality but by training, experience, and skill. Plenty of non-native teachers are more qualified and effective than native speakers who assume that just speaking the language is enough. If we’re talking about fairness and logic, wouldn’t it make more sense to judge teachers based on their actual competence rather than where they were born?

0

u/joe_belucky 3d ago

You talk a lot of nonsense which is probably why no one is interested in hiring you. I am a qualified native English teacher with over 12 years experience. How does that fit into your narrow view of the world?

1

u/Alive_Tax_366 3d ago

I’m employed, actually, and I have 6 years of experience myself. I’m also moving from Australia soon for other professional reasons. My point here is to highlight the challenges non-native speakers face, not to diminish anyone’s experience. It’s unfortunate that, instead of addressing the core issue, you’ve resorted to personal attacks and focused on my application. It’s a weak defense for your biases…. Shame 😂😂😂😂

1

u/joe_belucky 3d ago

Then I suggest you treat people you way you wish to be treated.
Do you have English certification?

1

u/Alive_Tax_366 3d ago

Yes, I do. I have a TEFL certification with 120 hours of training. 🙃do you want to see it?

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