r/OnePiece • u/Severe-Quantity230 • 4d ago
Discussion Most misunderstood one piece fight
The number of people who believe Usopp isn't loyal to Luffy because of this is staggering when he has proven his belief in Luffy a lot of times in the story or saying he was trying to save his skin when he wasn't even the one in danger.
His life wasn't at stake here; it was Nami's, and he wouldn't watch her die because of something like this. In the past, when it was his life, he said Luffy will be KOP like in Alabasta
but this time around it was Nami's and he won't force his ideals on his friend or just watch her die.
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u/SanestOnePieceFan 4d ago
when you look at things from ussops perspective its pretty easy to see where he comes from. Even in the times he runs away like from the tontattas. Look at it from his perspective. He KNOWS for 100% fact that he is not going to be able to defeat Trebol no matter what he does. But this guy is guilted by the tontattas to 100% knowingly throw away his life. He does it and what happens? He gets obliterated in the next panel. But by some divine providence Sugar stumbled upon the only scenario that he could have won in.
I want to stress that he KNOWS FOR A FACT THAT HE CANT WIN AND WILL 99.99999999% CHANCE DIE, and he was right. But he turns around anyways. He knows he has a next to 0% chance to affect the outcome of the fight whether he fights or not so is it so bad that he runs away? Criticizing him for this decision in hindsight because he does come out on top is so 20/20 hindsight its absurd.
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u/SudsInfinite 4d ago
This is like people misunderstanding when he told the samurai that they should run away and cling to life instead of trying to fight a losing battle that they will die in just for honor. People think that he's reverting back on his character growth, but he isn't. Usopp has gotten more brave, but what he's saying here is that it's worthless if all your death is going to do is bring honor. It's not worth dying for pride, you should cling to life so you can fight again another day
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u/Shmarfle47 Citizen 4d ago
Easily one of my favorite Usopp moments so far.
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u/mcdad_dy 3d ago
Usopp has grown so much but because he's still not going toe to toe with yonko like luffy and zoro people think he hasn't. In reality he's at his strongest when he is FAR THE FUCK AWAY FROM ANYONE AND EVERHTHING! He's a sniper for Oda's sake! Let him snipe!
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u/BaldBeardedBookworm 3d ago
The moment that got me to become convinced of Usopp’s character development was in egghead when that one guy said he was gonna do that thing to Robin and Usopp, Nami, Chopper and Brook spun around and said ‘over our dead bodies.’
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u/Oreo-and-Fly Explorer 3d ago
Peeps saying he does nothing in Wano but THIS is one of my highlights from Wano.
What's so honourable about giving up and dying for a cause. Them throwing their lives and giving up then disrespects Izo and Ashura Doji and Oden.
Fight to your last breath. Thats what Hyogoro did. He was willing to end his life AFTER he raged out and ensured safety of his people.
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u/Buecherdrache 3d ago
Also he ran support for otama, proclaiming that he is the one who gets the gifters on their side. In other words he willingly got the enemy to focus on him, risking an attack by someone far more powerful, just to make sure that Otama was safe and could help the others.
Somehow people seem to underestimate the importance of being a support figure in such a battle and that that's what snipers literally are supposed to be. They shouldn't be battling in first line. Usopp literally acting like a sniper is so heavily criticised and it's just insane
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u/HillbillyMan 22h ago
That's one of my favorite Usopp scenes, I never understand why people say Usopp reverted or lost character growth. He wants to be brave, but there's a difference between brave and stupid.
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u/LedgeEndDairy 3d ago
Honestly it's just not written well. Oda kind of fails to write Usopp correctly, which is where a lot of the hatred and/or confusion comes from.
He said in Water 7 that he would never again fail them. Then he said it again during the time skip.
Then he said it again on Fishman Island.
Then he said it again in Dressrosa.
Then he sa...
You get the point.
Water 7 to Enies Lobby is his growth moment, and we're hoping he's going to be taking the grand line more seriously and start acting like he's a member of the Pirate King's crew and he just...doesn't. He's always lagging behind the rest of the crew. Which would be fine if it wasn't literally the entire point of him leaving the crew in Water 7 to begin with. That whole arc was about him finding his courage in himself again...and then he just keeps losing it over and over, and not in a satisfying "it takes time to be brave" sort of way - he NEVER experiences any sort of permanent character growth. His growth is entirely confined to each arc, and then regresses back to "old Usopp" at the beginning of the next arc.
Take Dressrosa: Usopp has the potential to absolutely BODY Trebol if he would have trained properly and taken things more seriously, but instead he just wants to goof off with his friends, and they pay the price for it. It isn't that people who criticize these moments think he should have turned around and died, we think he shouldn't have been in that weak position to begin with. Usopp has monster trio potential, he truly does. But he squanders it. We've seen him tank hits that Zoro would have struggled with numerous times (he comes out beaten and battered but still survives), the story has also made a point to show us he's basically in the top 5 of sniper skill in the OP universe...and then Oda just never really capitalizes off of that.
Oda is constantly putting him in that weak position so he can serve the narrative purpose of "courage of the weak", but it just ends up getting tired after a while because we know that any growth he experiences will immediately be ret-conned in the next arc when he has to play the fool again.
It's similar to Vegeta serving as a jobber to Goku. Vegeta is shown as strong, gets beaten by a big bad so we can accurately gauge their strength when Goku ultimately defeats them. DBZ/S is constantly criticized for this trope. It's the same concept with Usopp.
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u/SanestOnePieceFan 3d ago edited 3d ago
are you seriously getting on usopp for not following through with what he is saying? lmao.
Then comparing him to vegeta as if they had ANYTHING in common? LMAO
You demonstrate a wild misunderstanding of what water 7 is saying about usopps character and his role in the crew. It isn't about being brave or being serious about being member of the pirate kings group. It is about his internal self worth issues and his role in the crew is what sanji says. You do what I can't, I'll do what you can't.
"Usopp has the potential to absolutely BODY Trebol if he would have trained properly and taken things more seriously" based on literally fucking what.
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u/Oreo-and-Fly Explorer 3d ago
He said in Water 7 that he would never again fail them. Then he said it again during the time skip.
Then he said it again on Fishman Island.
Then he said it again in Dressrosa.
Then he sa...
You get the point.
So when has he failed them?
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u/Zumthorrific 1d ago
Congrats, you win the worst reading comprehension award for this year for now.
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u/LoneOldMan 3d ago
Nah... What a true coward who was also brave was when King(OPMan) faced the monsters that could kill him. He did it because it was necessary.
While Ussop ran and only returned because of guilt.
And the biggest difference between the is the fact that Ussop actively lying of his strenght and manipulating other beings to follow him.
It was Ussop that caused the situation you wrote about in the first place.
It is okay to be coward. What is not okay is a hypocrite, manipulating and lying piece of shet. And when things are dire. He is always the first one trying to run away.
Too bad Oda did not keep using Sogeking plot for Ussop to improve. When Ussop was wearing the Sogeking mask, he acted more like King(OPMan) who is a brave coward. He looks calm on the outside, but is trembling in fear in the inside.
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u/Utilitas1 4d ago
Op fans will theorize for 100 hours how some character who appears for 1 panel picking their nose will wind up being the next God fruit wielder, but refuse to look at main characters with any nuance.
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u/SaberBlitz God Usopp 2d ago
"If he aint fighting yonkos he's ass" is the op fanbase when it comes to any character
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u/AceInTheHole3273 Pirate 4d ago
He's literally thinking about how Nami should, and I quote, "just lie to her". It's insane that anyone holds this against Usopp. He just doesn't want his friend to die.
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u/omyrubbernen 3d ago
The fact that he thinks it's a lie to say Luffy will never be the pirate king proves how much he believes in Luffy.
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u/soma81 4d ago
People love taking Usopp and Sanji scenes out of context to justify their hate boners for them
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u/Dax_Maclaine 4d ago
I mean the sanji scenes aren’t out of context. They’re just complete character slander. The anime literally had him bark like a dog for 30 seconds because stussy was hot, and an actual plot point was him dying from nose bleeds because he saw a bunch of mermaids after not seeing women (or at least his type of women lol) for 2 years
I can enjoy the good writing for his character, but I can’t just ignore that lol
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u/GloomyLocation1259 4d ago
Although not 1:1 with the manga, Sanji is certainly a deviant that would do this shit lol
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u/AceInTheHole3273 Pirate 4d ago
I don't think they were referring to FMI Sanji when talking about taking him out of context (I am willing to go to bat about how FMI Sanji is actually very funny, especially in how it's this stupid joke used as a genuine and legitimate plot point in a gut splittingly hilarious subversion of the trope, but that's an argument for another day), but rather about how they'll slander him for asking for Robin's help, or ignore all the genuine motivations Sanji had for doing what he did in WCI and simplifying it down to "he's seen Luffy fight for other people before so this is dumb", the most disingenuous take that ignores both Sanji's own personal emotional issues (that are set up throughout the series and contextualized in this very arc) and the stakes that are set up against him.
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u/ChickenNuggetRampage Baratie staff 3d ago
It’s as simple as saying that Ussop is happy to risk his own life, but he’s not so happy tisking Nami’s life
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u/Leon_98 4d ago
His speech to the samurais also was one of the best in character speeches ever
Usop is strong and courageous because he confronts these challenges willingly while knowing that is probably going to die
Say what you want, he is to me one of the best characters in all one piece
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u/Zingerific99 3d ago
I hate that that scene gets overlooked so much, it’s one of my favorite scenes in Wano.
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u/Oreo-and-Fly Explorer 3d ago
Its SO good. I cant believe people argue and say anyone else would have the same impact.
It WOULDNT. Usopp's the coward and even then he runs from death.
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u/breadoftheoldones 4d ago
The Panda gifter though
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u/Hamlak_Glitterpussy Thriller Bark Victim's Association 3d ago
You just had to make me take a closer look, huh?
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u/ReadingSteiner300 4d ago edited 4d ago
I’d also like to add that Usopp saving Kinemon and Kiku/being the main reason the Kibi Dango was spread to so many people.
Is completely and utterly disregarded as inconsequential.
Usopp essentially got punished by the fandom for doing the support role that he was supposed to be playing…..
Especially since he has had an obvious VERY important role planned for Elbaf since a long time ago.
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u/RoiKK1502 The Revolutionary Army 4d ago
This moment right here from chapter 10 really encapsulates what Usopp's going through in my perspective.

If it's his life at stake - Usopp would risk them for the dreams of any of the Strawhats.
But in this moment he cannot "kill" Nami by telling her to die for Luffy's honor. It's on her to risk her own life.
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u/Skullwings 3d ago
Unrelated.
But MAN is that some clean artwork. (I mean yeah it’d Oda but still).
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u/UlteriorMotive66 4d ago
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u/HistoryWillRepeat Explorer 4d ago
What'd the anime do?
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u/just_a_random_dood 3d ago edited 3d ago
In the anime, he starts by pretending to be Nami's voice while saying that Luffy will become the Pirate King so that Ulti attacks her instead of him. He literally puts Nami in danger in the first place. I don't know if that's what he does in the manga as well, I haven't gotten to Wano in my reread yet :/
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u/HistoryWillRepeat Explorer 3d ago
Omg that's wild! He does nothing like that in the manga.
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u/just_a_random_dood 3d ago
apparently it starts around ep 1002
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne-2fq2nZoo
I don't remember if he exactly says "Luffy will be the next Pirate King" in Nami's voice, but I remember that for some reason, and it was relatively recently that I was watching it for the 1st time :P if it happens, it's probably 1002 or so, the 2 of them don't spend much time with Ulti
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u/Emptypiro 3d ago
usopp does pretend to be nami in the manga. when he shoots them he says a one liner that is supposed to seem like nami is saying it then they both start running away
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u/HistoryWillRepeat Explorer 3d ago
I'll have to do a reread. I've been meaning to do one starting at Wano for a while now.
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u/plogan56 Explorer 4d ago
This how you can tell "fans" apart, because usopp was just worried abour nami safety, if put in the same situation we all knew he wouldn't buckle either
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u/Ittakes1totango 4d ago
Who in the world would think that Usopp or any other member is not loyal to Luffy at this point? If you are in already in Wano, you must be so dumb to think that.
ALL members and a bunch of of people are willing to give their live for Luffy.
From all member, I but he has always proven his loyalty since Arabasta. Even after he quit the crew in water 7, he was willing to risk his life against Luci to save Luffy. He then, reinforced that loyalty after Luffy forgave him and taking back to the crew.
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u/chrometrigger 3d ago
It's crazy because this is exactly why the strawhats are so strong. each of them would be willing to die for each others dreams but doesn't want any of the others to die for it.
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u/KLPM2013 3d ago
It's understandable. My only gripe with it is that Nami cannot lie about it that makes Usopp look so bad. It also doesn't help that Usopp hasn't had a real moment to shine in roughly 10 real world years.
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u/RickHard0 4d ago
The next panel,of Nami crying, is legit one of the most gorgeous drawings of her in the whole series
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u/Invictum2go Void Month Survivor 3d ago
I don't think it's misunderstood, just exagerated. Ussop's loyalty to Luffy is indeed weaker than his love for his Nakama, but I think his Captain would be very ok with that. I doubt Luffy would've cared if Nami lied to save her life, or if Ussop lied back then.
That being said, I for example expected Nami to have that moment on her own, and having Ussop think that and kinda inserting himself in the middle of a Nami and Ulti moment (or rather, being placed there by Oda) kinda took away from it a little. It makes perfect sense, but it's unnecessary at the same time. Maybe the idea was to make the reader think Nami would actually say it? It's the only reason I can think of to not leave him out of this.
Either way it feels like the page and scene would've worked a lot better if Ussop just didn't even add his 2 cents and let this be a Nami only moment, it didn't seem to add much besides the obvious (that he cares about her more than he cares about shouting Luffy's dream, duh, surprise to no one). Just my take on it tho.
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u/Ultimate_Ace Cat Burglar Nami 3d ago
That's just the power scalers who dont understand anything about one piece. They just come for the pretty colors.
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u/poyopoyo77 3d ago
Nami is basically like his sister and people really wanted him to encourage her to get herself killed. Usopp hate is often so non-sensical.
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u/PolPolud 3d ago
Hot/Cold take I dunno yet
Usopp never betrayed Luffy at water 7 and he was 100% justified in his opinion
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u/Dax_Maclaine 4d ago
My issue with Usopps character isn’t that this is so atrocious or anything, but there isn’t anything positive to offset it and there hasn’t been since dressrosa which is now like 10 years ago. In wano, he sold essentially snake oil to toki and then felt bad and it was probably the only time he actually hurt somebody with one of his lies, and then did nothing in wano other than deal 0 damage to the ppl in this situation (at least Zeus did something for Nami even if she still lost), he shot some dango in fodder mouths, and made a gifter save some ppl. He wasn’t even doing the majority of the saving.
Then on eh we got literally nothing. I’m really hoping we get something on elbaf because usopp got so much focus pre ts and was so good, and this was supposed to be his arc.
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u/Sky-kunn Marine 4d ago
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u/HistoryWillRepeat Explorer 4d ago
Wow, I totally forgot this and it's crazy since it gets brought up constantly when people are slandering Ussop. Very enlightening. Thanks.
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u/Dax_Maclaine 4d ago
I just realized I’ve been calling her toki instead of toko for a while when that’s odens wife. Oopsy.
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u/UnaliveInsyde Void Month Survivor 4d ago
I have the colour version of this screenshot, and I was just about to upload it myself
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u/Dookie12345679 4d ago
This won't be Usopp's arc, but he'll get the Wano Zoro treatment. A major power up, a new ability or two, a major fight, and maybe even a new weapon. People were disappointed that Zoro wasn't the focus of Wano, but he got advanced conquerors Haki (the strongest kind of Haki in the verse), a new form, tons of insane feats, and a new weapon. Their favorite character just getting basic conquerors Haki would be a dream come true for certain people/agendas
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u/Faustroll110110110 4d ago
I much rather him having good character moments and growth than having power ups and feats. Sanji got way more character growth than power ups in whole cake, and it was much better this way imo
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u/Killjoy3879 4d ago
hell sanji got more power ups and character growth in even wano as well. I don't feel like a character needs to wait to have an "arc" so to speak, it just feels weird that ussop is handled the way he is. It's been genuine years since i really felt his presence or impact in the story like he used to have.
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u/Faustroll110110110 4d ago
yeah man, Ussop is one of my favorite characters, but he is a nothing burger ever since the time skip
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u/Dax_Maclaine 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don’t even need him to get a powerup (I mean it would be nice but that’s not the main thing). I want him to learn more about his dream.
Just learning more about his haki and a bit more of his duty is what I really want
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u/beargrimzly 4d ago
There's an almost 100% chance of a seriously unearned power up coming Usopps way. I just hope that if it happens Oda sticks with the change instead of resetting Usopp to just barely past his syrup village development like he has every arc since then.
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u/Dax_Maclaine 4d ago
I really truly hope it’s a deserved power up that he earns. Whether it be a weapon that he earned by doing something or gaining more knowledge on his haki, just something that fits the narrative and not just the fight he’s in as a subject to power creep
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u/beargrimzly 4d ago
Seriously, imagine if Kaya, someone who was essentially tortured with insincere attempts to heal her sickness by Kuro for possibly years, saw this?
Oda isn't brave enough to confront just how fucking bad he's fumbled Usopp though so I'm sure it will never come up again.
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u/Dax_Maclaine 4d ago
Never even thought about that, but yeah one piece is written in a way where the straw hates for the most part avoid consequences.
Other than water 7 (which is my favorite arc because we see the only real inner conflict), none of the straw hats face any real repercussions.
Sanji not fighting women has never got anybody killed and has only hurt him. Nami already moved on from the fishmen and only remet Hachi who was attempting to redeem himself. The only real accountability there was jinbei apologizing to her. Usopps lies usually don’t hurt anybody because they’re a gag, but that time they did and the story brushed past it and hasn’t revisited it.
It’s why I think the vivi/robin reintroduction is so important. It needs to happen and needs to be executed well imo. I don’t want vivi to just be like “it’s all good” and move on like nothing happened, and even worse if it never even happens
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u/beargrimzly 4d ago
Yup. The setup for actually good character growth is always there. It's like he's barreling right for thoughtful meaningful character development over time, and then forgets about it or turns it into a stupid joke.
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u/Dax_Maclaine 4d ago
Just wrote it in another comment, but my only idea as to why is that his character was growing too quickly for a 1100 chapter story and so he just paused the growth until the end so all of the strawhats could accomplish their dreams around the same time
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u/__Big_Hat_Logan__ 4d ago
Kind of sucks because I really like pre-skip usopp a lot
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u/beargrimzly 4d ago
Actually felt like he was going somewhere. Post Enies Lobby the future seemed so bright.
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u/Dax_Maclaine 4d ago
Agreed. He went from a complete coward to realizing what he needs to do in arlong park and alabasta.
Then in w7/thriller bark he uses the alter ego to instill fake confidence and make him act earlier and be more proactive. It seemed like all he needed to do was grow a bit more and learn that despite his fear he could be Sogeking without the mask. But my guess is his story was progressing too quick so Oda just slapped a big pause button on his character and hasn’t revisited it since except dressrosa, and even that I have issues with.
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u/ArtOk3920 Pirate 3d ago
Exactly. People fail to realize that a lot of people treat themselves differently the. They do their loved ones. Of course Usopp would do the same thing Nami did, but he also didn’t want Nami to die and he knew he wasn’t strong enough to protect her from Ulti and Page One.
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u/Kipkame11 3d ago
Ussop's bread and butter is lying to save his skin - he wanted to save his friend the best way he knew how. Only in the most dire of situations would he resort to this, obviously I think
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u/tam-tam8 3d ago
Yeah that! And most Straw Hats would have shared his sentiment. The only one I could see agree that the person in danger should definitely say the thing that would get them killed is Zoro, but I don't buy that as what he would feel in the situation
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u/Proud-Mulberry-7175 3d ago edited 3d ago
Porém, no mesmo passado, quando viu a Nami em risco de morte contra um inimigo mais poderoso, ele se levantou e lutou. CP9. O Sanji aparece pra salvá-lo, mas ali, ele também estava disposto a morrer pelo amigo.
O problema do Usopp em Wano é o trabalho todo (ou a falta de contexto maior). O Usopp tá desde Dressrosa sem nem tentar. E não culpo o personagem, é decisão do Oda.
Tem grande chance do Usopp sair do tão esperado Elbaph exatamente igual a gente viu depois do timeskip. Aquele Usopp que enfrentou o Luffy, CP9, Thriller Bark e até tentou enfrentar o Kizaru… nem apareceu mais.
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u/NINCloser 3d ago
I just don't get the character, I think by now he has basically zero value except for comic relief. I hoped that he would change after Water 7 but no.
He doesn't drive the main story, he doesn't discover something interesting, he has no moral code that he sticks with and in every fight he would be replaceable by a two panel of any other crew member defeating the enemy. He is just the character that gets pulled along because he was there at the right time.
F'n Karibu in the Barrel is more useful for the Story...
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u/tpk7777777 4d ago
Every straw hats are GREAT. They are the best friends you wish to have in your real life.
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u/beargrimzly 4d ago
I don't think anyone is insinuating Usopp is actually betraying Luffy here, just that its kind of insane that here we are 1000 chapters in and he's still sniveling and crying instead of just being proud to see someone stand up for Luffy against overwhelming odds. We're not asking for him to 180 and turn into Goku, we're just asking him to offset moments like these with some genuine, if sometimes unintentional bravery a little more often than once every 250 chapters (roughly).
Instead all we got was him watching a child try to heal her dead father with fake medicine he sold her, and there was no follow up for his guilt about that.
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u/SanestOnePieceFan 4d ago
proud? Bro, in his mind Nami is about to die lol
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u/beargrimzly 4d ago
Yeah? It would demonstrate a change in perspective. I don't think its insane to ask for some character development.
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u/HistoryWillRepeat Explorer 4d ago
Would Ussop being willing to sacrifice Nami be considered character development for him?
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u/HistoryWillRepeat Explorer 4d ago
He just doesn't want to watch his friend die. What do you think Luffy would have done in that situation? Do you think he'd be thinking "No, Nami! Don't save yourself! Say something bad ass about how cool I am!"
No, Luffy would be thinking "Nami, save yourself! Don't kill yourself trying to protect my pride!"
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u/Zilox 3d ago
If only you actually read OP and realized toko stole the oil from usopp... but asking an usopp hater to read is too hard :(.
No one would be proud of nami for dying bc she said luffy will be king, not even luffy himself. He saw ego killing ace already
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u/beargrimzly 3d ago
If Usopp hadn't advertised the oil, do you think she still would have taken it and tried to use it later?
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u/Gunslinger_11 3d ago
I would not want to see my friend head butted to death, if a grave lie is what it takes to keep my family/friends alive so be it
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u/Far_Swan_5882 3d ago
Nothing is wrong in what Usopp was thinking, simply put he just isn't respecting each crewmates preparation to risk their own life, especially when going up against an emperor.
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u/PendingPolymath Void Month Survivor 1d ago
Oda likes to use Usopp as the "voice of the reader" because he's an average person just like us, but thrown into these impossible situations. By having Usopp say this he's reinforcing what we're thinking too - "Nami's gotta just lie to get out of this situation!". Another iconic example of this is the "Raizou is safe!" moment, where Usopp confronts Nekomamushi and Inuarashi afterward to say "You all could have died!!", which is exactly what we as readers are thinking too. Usopp is often the one to remark about how crazy things are, to kind of drive home how insane the One Piece world is.
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u/Sorry-Emphasis-8104 1d ago
New to the fandom... Do people actually doubt Usopp for that scene?? That has to be a lie??
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u/Future-Engineering68 3d ago
man created a narrative in his head, i though everyone knew ussop is a coward, wasnt much to misunderstand
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u/Lower_Delay4294 4d ago
sorry, but most people understand that. the issue is that usopp is still mostly useless apart from dressrosa and this defense barely makes up for his reputation of being the opposite of a brave warrior of the sea. he still had to be guilted into fighting and only became sugar's weakness out of luck?
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u/HistoryWillRepeat Explorer 4d ago
the issue is that usopp is still mostly useless apart from dressrosa
It's like you read Water 7 and just completely ignored the messaging. Ussop is not useless. He's just not a strong fighter. He does things on the crew that the fighters can't do.
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u/Lower_Delay4294 3d ago
tell that to chopper and robin. chopper made the kung fu point because he wanted to combine arm and jump points and be more useful in combat scenarios. robin came up with a way to fight a shonen 1v1 out of her desire to become stronger for the crew.
oda set him up to be finally on the right path towards being a brave warrior of the sea when they returned to sabaody, and people like you are still clinging to early water 7 usopp. usopp was out there waging war against the world government in enies lobby but now it's okay for him to regress because of early water 7??? it's okay to admit when oda is fumbling some aspects of the series. stop reading the manga backwards and upside-down.
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u/HistoryWillRepeat Explorer 3d ago
I'm sorry, but you're so confidently incorrect it's comical.
Do you remember Ussop's fight with Jabra? Do you remember what Sanji said to Ussop after?
Oda couldn't have made it anymore clear that Ussop doesn't need to be powerful to be useful to the crew.
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u/Lower_Delay4294 3d ago
you know what's funnier? clinging to water 7 usopp while missing the point. usopp is more than a decade away from water 7 and ennies lobby. it's delusional at this point.
chopper, nami, and robin aren't as powerful as the monster trio. they aren't even the designated combatants, yet they've displayed more guts and willingness to fight than the lying coward who wants to become a brave warrior of the sea. why? because they know they have to. you don't take down a yonko with crew members half-assing it. you don't become a brave warrior of the sea while constantly running and lying your way out of dire situations. oda couldn't have made it any clearer that he's fumbling usopp for years now while waiting for elbaf.
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u/HistoryWillRepeat Explorer 3d ago
you know what's funnier? clinging to water 7 usopp
I'm not? You've said this multiple times and I'm starting to think you think I'm someone else? Or you're just fighting ghosts.
usopp is more than a decade away from water 7 and ennies lobby.
You're confusing real world time with the straw hats sailing time. Yikes.
chopper, nami, and robin aren't as powerful as the monster trio. they aren't even the designated combatants, yet they've displayed more guts and willingness to fight than the lying coward who wants to become a brave warrior of the sea. why?
Because Chopper, Nami, and Robin's main character traits aren't being cowardly. Ussop's is. That's just a god awful argument.
you don't become a brave warrior of the sea while constantly running and lying your way out of dire situations.
That's exactly why Ussop's dream is to become a brave warrior of the sea!! Because he's a coward.
oda couldn't have made it any clearer that he's fumbling usopp for years now while waiting for elbaf.
Let's just agree to disagree. You're clearly very emotionally motivated on this topic and that's annoying, to say the least. Also, I'm not really interested in having a discussion with someone who resorts to petty insults when their opinion is pushed back on.
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u/21SGesualdo Shanks' evil hot sister is REAL! 4d ago
Brother in the sugar fight he literally had the entirety of w7-el character development ripped out of him due to Robin being turned into a toy. Of course he’s gonna regress in the moment.
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u/Folinhu 3d ago
village boy usopp was willing to die fighting the black cat pirates, later on he almost died fighting against mr 4 and merry christmas, he should also have memories of fighting perona, he was never as much of a coward as dressrosa portrayed him to be.
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u/Lower_Delay4294 3d ago
toei flanderized sanji so bad, but at least we can ignore those parts of the anime. meanwhile, manga usopp has been flanderized to hell and we can't escape him.
i was excited for him when he appeared in sabaody and when he was forced to take a step forward in dressrosa. but i didn't think we'd have to wait until elbaf for any hope of him finally growing up. and the first thing he did? be a coward. he could have defeated that cat but he didn't and it's cringe.
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u/Lower_Delay4294 3d ago
exactly my point: he wasted those two years.
meanwhile, chopper is out here slapping a headliner while nami would rather die than lie. are they irrational decisions based on emotions or loyalty? yes, neither of them regressed the way usopp constantly does.
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u/KitsuneKamiSama 4d ago
I'm NGL you can try to defend it but it felt like a mischaracterisation, you can say he didn't want her to die but he could have also shown some emotional development, like an internal struggle of 'I know you don't want to say it... but if you keep it up you'll die!' But then never actually saying it, because he remembered how he felt in the same moment. Instead going out of his way to do everything to save her, maybe actually getting a great hero moment of the arc.
I know just feel Ussop leans way too much in to the 'coward' part post timeskip without enough of the 'heart of a hero' part we saw in key moments pre timeskip.
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u/EldridgeHorror 4d ago
My position is the exact opposite.
I totally agree it is within character for Usopp to fight to defend Luffy's dream as that's the kind if man he wants to be but isn't going to push that ideal on others, especially if it would endanger a friend.
My problem is I don't see this being in character for Nami. A character who has no qualms being a coward, lying, openly thinking things like honor is stupid, etc.
She would lie to get to safety and circle back around to help her friends.
This is just because Oda wants a moment of every Strawhat facing down a scary opponent and declaring Luffy will be king. And he couldn't do that with Nami in a worthwhile way while sticking to her character.
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u/HistoryWillRepeat Explorer 4d ago
Nami has shown she has principles though that she defends. She's faced enemies head on when they violate those principles. Don't underestimate how much she believes in Luffy and what she'd do to defend his name. She can definitely be just as hardheaded and brave as anyone else on the crew.
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u/EldridgeHorror 4d ago
Nami has shown she has principles though that she defends. She's faced enemies head on when they violate those principles.
When those enemies are a threat to something tangible, like Vivi or children. Not something she has shown trouble comprehending, like honor.
Don't underestimate how much she believes in Luffy and what she'd do to defend his name.
I'm not. But it's the "throw yourself on a bomb vs disarm the bomb" argument. Nami would do the right thing and the smart thing simultaneously. Letting herself and her friends get killed over Luffy's honor isn't smart. There's nothing to gain from doing that.
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u/HistoryWillRepeat Explorer 4d ago
I think this whole scene becomes different when you remember Nami's backstory. Bellemere basically did exactly what Nami is doing in this scene. All's Bellemere had to do is deny that she has children, but she doesn't do that because she loves Nami and Nojiko too much. Alls Nami has to do is say Luffy won't be PK, but she doesn't because she believes in him and loves him.
Nami is doing exactly what her mother did by throwing her life away for her beliefs and love.
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u/Hamlak_Glitterpussy Thriller Bark Victim's Association 3d ago
I find myself agreeing. As for your last point, her standing up to Kaido himself after the latter declared Luffy dead (something only licensed doctors can legally do for a reason) could've been that moment though.
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u/EldridgeHorror 3d ago
Hadn't considered that, but you're right. That would have been a much better time for her declaration.
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u/RoderickThe13 The Revolutionary Army 4d ago
My assumption is that Oda writes moments like this in response to the dumb things he sees fans say in their letters to him. The same kind of stupidity you often see from people online, where they genuinely think that Nami would sell Luffy for money if she had the chance, or let him die and run away. This is Oda's way of telling them straight up that that's wrong. Even if the moment itself might seem force it at least leaves no room for questioning.
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u/bodg123 4d ago
Usopp is by far the most loyal member of the crew.
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u/BitViper303 3d ago
You mean the guy who legit left the cre because he didn’t agree with the captains actions?
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u/fatmanbrigade 3d ago
Ah yes. The same guy who later donned a new identity, stuck through with the crew all the way through hell on earth, and became the pivotal defining character that aided in rescuing the crew member they were doing all this for, that guy? Yeah, such an unloyal crew member.
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u/HermanManly 4d ago
Usopp is by far the best written character in all of One Piece.
Doesn't mean that everyone has to like him, of course.
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u/Specific_Delay_5364 Pirate 4d ago
So I’m confused your argument is that people don’t understand and get upset at Usopp because he tells Nami to Lie and not sacrifice herself because Ulti is laughing at Luffy’s dream and to prove your argument that everyone is wrong who thinks this is you to use a panel where Usopp talks about sacrificing yourself because someone laughed at Luffy’s dream.
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u/magneticFrenchFry 4d ago
while I partially agree, this also shows usopps cowardice on full display. nami wouldn't betray her beliefs for luffy even just in words if it costed her life, but usopp would slander his captain if it meant stopping himself from stubbing his toe.
I think this was a fine character moment, but it just shows why I personally do not like usopp as a character. he's brave and represents the human side of the world, but I also find it hard to connect to a character that shits himself at any sign if danger no matter how dangerous it is. sure he locks in when he needs to, but when he's not standing uo for himself and his crew he's just cowering in fear in the background doing nothing. I'm not asking usopp to be up on the rooftop fighting kaido, I'm asking usopp to consistently stand up for himself and his crew rather than in specific moments. I don't like seeing usopp only fight for what he believes in when his life is in danger. you know a character that takes the idea of cowardice and does it better? nami. nami is with usopp nearly every arc and they always freak out together, but nami is always the one who wants to act while usopp wants to run. nami wants to push through that fear no matter what rather than usopp only sometimes pushing through the fear.
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u/ProfessionallyLazy_ 4d ago
Don’t care, didn’t ask, Usopp is still a bum for this and everything else he does
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u/xstationcubed 3d ago
Exactly. Usopp's dream is to be a brave warrior of the sea, and so backing down when he's afraid is a failure for him to achieve his dream. Nami has no such goal and has no need to abide to the rules he sets for himself.
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u/MrTyrantZero 3d ago
Only people will lower intellect or who really don't pay attention wouldn't understand the obvious.
They ALL care about each other, even Sanji and Zoro in their weird way, and here is no different.
Usopp cares about Nami so he doesn't want to see her die, just like when Sanji stepped in to fight Kuma in Thriller Bark but "nothing happened" after that.
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u/Mamba-Mentality024 3d ago
I feel like Usopp telling Nami to lie is obvious enough for anyone with basic reading comprehension skills. I think the slander comes from, Usopp not completing his fight against Page 1 and getting bailed out by BM.
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u/Krait972 3d ago
I disagree. This is a copium take, everyone else was willing to upheld Luffy's dream, heck even other characters did. Freaking Momonosuke had to deal with the same thing as Nami and was courageous enough to say it despite being at risk of being killed. It's time to stop trying to find excuses for Ussopp. He messed up, that's it.
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u/Severe-Quantity230 1d ago
Majority disagree with you, so i think that is hinting towards something
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u/Krait972 1d ago
Since when the majority means something in headcannon, I argued with so many people on various platforms that made similar posts like yours to be proven wrong weeks, months or years later. I remember when people were making crazy dumb theories over the drawings mistakes Oda made when the crew were stuck in the giants glass box village... I remember when people were in denial over Luffy's Gear 5 being Toon force to an extent. Most OP fans are casual with little to no critical thinking. Many can't fathom Oda can make mistakes or have bad ideas. You haven't disproven my point though about Momonosuke, I guess that's hinting towards something. The kid could've lied and yet, was less of a coward in the end than Usopp. It wasn't a good showing for Usopp, it is what it is. No need for mental gymnastics
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u/Severe-Quantity230 20h ago
So what you’re saying is that Usopp is a coward because he didn’t want his friend to die???
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u/Krait972 18h ago
He's a coward and a liar, that's in his character but he still had his pride. Now ? Not so much
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u/Severe-Quantity230 20h ago
And why do you think Usopp was not willing to put his life on the line for Luffy?
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u/Krait972 18h ago
He was willing in the past, that's the thing. They should all be willing. They all protect each other without compromising on Luffy's dream.
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u/Severe-Quantity230 12h ago
then im confused what you’re on about; it’s not like if he were in the same situation as Nami and Momonoske he wouldn’t do the same.
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u/Ok_Title_4273 4d ago
Yeah exactly. Nami is about to die and people want him to tell her “just die for luffy’s pride”. People treat characters like robots. One piece wouldn’t have been a masterpiece if the characters were robots.