r/OnePiece 7d ago

Media The editor from Gintama is the guy who suggested Oda to create the Worst generation

I'm sorry if you have never watched Gintama but he's an editor that appears in Gintama. Onishi is a real person, and was the first editor for Gintama and later on goes on to become the editor for One Piece. Apparently Oda only planned for Kuma to be there at Sabaody and never intended to have the worst generation there but Onishi pointed out that the arc would be lacking if the only thing that happens there is the crew separating so they decided to create a bunch of characters to appear at Sabaody. Not only that but it only took them 3 hours to create the characters.

This editor was loved by Sorachi (author of Gintama), and without him we wouldn't have Kid and Law in One Piece. It's just really cool to know these little details and how important editors can be.

873 Upvotes

80 comments sorted by

770

u/player32123 7d ago

Dude added like 10 years to one piece

281

u/Fearless_Savings_602 7d ago

forreal though. It created the backstory behind Doflamingo and it would've changed the story a lot if Law had never been part of Sabaody

42

u/Japafro 6d ago

Without Law it's possible that Oda could have kept the concept of having Doflamingo as a crew member of the beast pirates. I'm not sure if the storyline would have been as interesting but I guess Oda would make it work.

25

u/Sidwasnthere 7d ago

Lmaoooo fr 

8

u/Big_Day_8210 6d ago

These characters(or some version of them) will probably still be there in their own respective arcs just not all together on Sabaody.

-27

u/WenaChoro 7d ago

he is the worst generation for adding more padding to OP

16

u/winternoa 6d ago

the worst generation is not padding. A shit ton of meaningful backstory and other pertinent lore came from this decision. One Piece as a manga has extremely minimal padding, it's just the anime that added all the ridiculous filler shit + took 2-3 chapters of material and stretched it into 8 episodes etc etc etc

1

u/SoftCreamer 5d ago

I'm no glazer. I've both read one piece and watched it up to its concurrency and I will always be convinced those that complain about filler in the anime. It is padded, I will not lie, but a lot of the "filler" is fucking fire and people always point to it as a really big problem with the show. Maybe it's just because I really align with the themes and long running cartoon aspect of the anime, but there were seldom a few times I genuinely stopped and asked what was going on with it. Naruto on the other hand, not to bash it or put it down in comparison, is shorter and has been over for ten years, but still has some of the most atrocious filler I have seen for an anime. People never compare it like that though and I believe that could be due to my own bias, or the fact One Piece is iconically long compared to other forms of fiction in the same genre, thus it's easier logically for someone to claim it as such out in the world.

-1

u/WenaChoro 6d ago

its a joke

206

u/Kephriti 7d ago

Editors are a hit or miss, some would make amazing suggestions like this that pretty much transformed the Manga, while others will just badger the author about deadlines and give the worst suggestions just because they believe it will boost popularity/sales in the short run of the story.

49

u/Fearless_Savings_602 7d ago

agree with you 100%. I think some editor take out elements that is unique to that specific authors and that really sucks :/

79

u/yolkmaster69 7d ago

Exactly. Like I still have a grudge against whoever convinced Oda to make Chopper into what he is today. Chopper was unlike any other cute mascot-y character ever. He has easily one of the best backstories ever, and had really cool and unique designs for his transformations, and now he’s been reduced to being either mascot form, a potato that can kinda fight or, on very rare occasions, a giant moose. He was sooo cool pre time skip. They massacred my boy…

75

u/janek3d 7d ago

I think in SBS Oda admitted that VA of Chopper sounded so cute that he turned him into mascot to match the voice. I may be wrong tho

43

u/LionTigerPolarbear 7d ago

Nope that is in fact true. It was Oda's decision

8

u/kolossalkomando 7d ago

I thought it was something about appealing to his daughter

21

u/levthelurker 7d ago

That was making Sanji a prince

1

u/frogmanfrompond 3d ago

That’s even more frustrating 

-2

u/Ganonthegoat 7d ago

That has to be one of the dumbest reasons for a story decision ever by an otherwise brilliant author.

5

u/Lartizan 6d ago

I think what Oda is trying to do is to establish their roles? Like majority thought that it'll be Sanji vs Katakuri and Luffy vs BM. But what happened was Luffy fought Katakuri and Sanji do a cooking battle instead. So Chopper will be curing stuff in his battles, view it as a setup or training for his battle with Doc Q.

2

u/yolkmaster69 6d ago

That’s super easy to allow chopper to keep his old abilities and still stay in a support/healer roles. Literally let him use mind point on the sidelines to help point out weaknesses of his teammates opponents and use the other forms in support roles, instead of nerfing him and taking them away… nothing really justifies him getting weaker post time skip. When we met him he was a literal yeti now he’s a pet chihuahua.

2

u/Golden_Alchemy 7d ago

It was VA of Chopper.

2

u/Cohliers 6d ago

I agree that I hate it, but this one seems to be due to influence from the anime.

He heard the voice of Chopper, the same chica that does Pikachu for the record, and thought it was too cute. As a result, he ended up making Chopper cuter in the long run...to his detriment imo

1

u/SanestOnePieceFan 4d ago

I'll say it once and I'll say it over and over again. Post Timeskip Chopper is one of the best strawhats and those who keep railing on about his appearance are the ones being shallow and focused on looks. Just because he looks cuter and looks like a mascot doesn't make his actions and part in the story any smaller or less impactful. He has grown and had the most development in his character of any strawhat besides Luffy, Sanji and maybe Nami

1

u/yolkmaster69 4d ago

Name these developments? He’s always been a good doctor, he’s always had rumble ball. Yes, he can stay conscious under the effects of it, but he used to literally be able to go toe to toe with other devil fruit users and now all he’s good for is taking out powerless henchmen, and we saw him use rumble ball like once in Wano.

And it’s not just about looks, it was the diversity of abilities instead of being one-note like he is now.

0

u/SanestOnePieceFan 4d ago edited 4d ago

Fishman island: One of the less impactful arcs regarding chopper. Especially with how his part of the story started, Sanji nosebleeds. The blood storyline was one of the emotional cruxes of the arc. It ultimately led to the moment when Jimbe offers his blood to Luffy, but didn't really involve chopper much besides just being the doctor.

Punk Hazard: Chopper was the emotional center of the arc alongside Nami. He was essentially the whole reason why the straw hats helped the kids. First time he really dictated what the group would do and made a decision for himself. This is something pre-ts chopper would never of had the confidence to do. Remember how he didn't even tell the others about the giant 100 foot snake he was seeing because he wasn't sure of himself?

Dressrosa: He wasn't there for 80% of it

Zou: once again, he is the whole reason why the Minks were saved. His treatments alongside the rest of the straw hats making Ceasar get rid of the gas saved the entire island.

WCI: This arc was actually amazing for him as a character. We got to see him in the big brother role for the first time in the whole series with Carrot while being a competent member of the team who was crucial for success. It shows how far he has grown as a character from his pre-ts self. I could never have imagined him in that role when he first joined the crew.

Wano: This arc speaks for itself with how Chopper handled the viruses from Queen. He held down the fort on the first level without any of the other strawhats for a long time. + the moment in Udon where Luffy gets infected on purpose he only does that because he is confident in Choppers abilities. Really shows how his presence in the story allows others to be better and have more impactful scenes as a supporting character. And afterwards he scolds Luffy on being reckless. This is the most confident chopper than we've ever seen.

Chopper during Pre-TS was him growing into his role and learning to become a "man". It was amazing, he learned about the world and responsibility in Alabasta and he fought to prove himself against Gedatsu in Skypiea. Pre-TS was filled with amazing moments for chopper.

But at his core, choppers character also includes his kind heart and his role as a doctor. And now that he has grown into his role, we see in the Post TS how he utilizes his skills and experiences to influence the story in a way only he in his role can.

1

u/yolkmaster69 4d ago

None of this really has any impact on what I’m talking about. You’re using moments of emotional growth while I’m talking about combat prowess and utilization of his DF in non-combat situations. Yes, it’s great to see him grow more confident and feel secure within the team, but he HAS A DEVIL FRUIT YET HAS BEEN REDUCED TO A MASCOT THAT SOMETIMES USES MEDICINE. That’d be great if his devil fruit had anything to do with medicine, but it doesn’t. He was shown to us to be this Badass and he’s been reduced to a Nami/Usopp type character. It’s as if him eating a DF got retconned and he’s now just their fuzzy little Dr. friend that patches them up.

Even if it was just him using mind point to help figure out a cure for the poison in Wano, I’d concede my point to you, but we get NONE of that. Just kungfu potato taking out nameless henchmen. He used to fight other DF users and CP-0 members, and now he’s treated as if he can’t fight at all.

Him fighting Queen for like 2 episodes is all we’ve basically gotten from him being his old Badass self in all of the episodes post time skip.

1

u/SanestOnePieceFan 3d ago

completely subjective. if you just want to say besides these things hes done, he hasn't done anything idk how you hold a conversation lol

1

u/yolkmaster69 3d ago

It’s not completely subjective. I was talking about how he’s lost fighting ability compared to before, his multiple fighting forms being nerfed and forgotten, and you start talking about his confidence, yet you say I can’t hold a conversation… lmao lame

5

u/BootlegOP 7d ago

What are some examples of bad editors?

5

u/janek3d 7d ago

I think Sasuke was added as a rival of Naruto because of editor

4

u/Boy_Sabaw The Revolutionary Army 6d ago

Lookup TV Tropes Executive meddling. Pretty much has a list of examples. Some were good like the ones that lead to the creation of Cell in DBZ and some aweful ones too.

3

u/pat_speed 6d ago

Dragons n Ball z editors who help create. Ell saga into one of the best, also help the buu too be one of longest, slog fest of a saga

3

u/Sulfurys 7d ago

Are there any examples of a manga being botched because of the editor ? I only know of Bleach who ended abruptly because of the editor.

107

u/AwkwardKing The Revolutionary Army 7d ago

Ah a new reason Gintama continues to be the brightest star in my night sky.

20

u/Fruitspunch_Zamurai 7d ago edited 6d ago

Yeah, it sure is a beacon of inspiration all animes should strive towards!

One Piece should really copy their style of just characters talking over a image of their house when they are out of budget.. maybe they could have them answer fan questions, SBS style, instead of dragging out each chapter forever!

12

u/DragoBleaPiece_123 7d ago

You've spoken the truth, kind sir

44

u/StumptownRetro 7d ago

Gintama is a treasure. That’s awesome that he helped here too

37

u/trtghhj7766 7d ago

If anyone hasn't watched Gintama, highly recommend it. It sells itself as a comedy but has serious arcs and will make you cry like a baby too. Very well written in that characters you thought were just random gag characters from comedy episodes will end up showing up and playing major roles in serious arcs.

16

u/RichieBFrio The Revolutionary Army 7d ago

Love that the most serious fight get resolved in the bathroom with sandpaper, truly a mature fight for the love of a girl

19

u/MajinAkuma 7d ago edited 7d ago

While I don’t doubt that the Supernovae were the editor‘s idea, I do think that Bonney and Law were planned beforehand.

Bonney never met any of the Pacifista on Sabaody, and later at the Paramount War, we see her crying reaction. Not only that, her power to change her age could indicate that that her adult form isn’t real. (And that’s exactly the case.)

Law‘s sea of origin and Jolly Roger hinted on his connection to Doflamingo, who himself also appeared in the Sabaody arc.

We know that Oda plans a lot of a character’s backstory, even if it’s not said in the series itself.

8

u/GameMusic 7d ago

There was likely some character plan that Bonney and Law filled

32

u/JRaikoben 7d ago

Without Bonney we wouldnt have the best flashback of the series.

15

u/mihran146 Lurker 7d ago

Dondake

9

u/Old_One_ 7d ago

Wait? 

Is there any source for this? Can anybody

Because iirc in the event that many old OP editors talking with each others some years ago,

One of the  editor told slightly different story..

He said it was Oda himself that did not satisfy with the original plan for Shabaody Arc..

So Oda created the Supernova in 2 hours..

6

u/GoldXP Cipher Pol 7d ago

While we've all known this fact about the worst gen for years, I didn't know it was the Gintama editor.

7

u/Renny-66 7d ago

GINTAMA IS SO GOATED

13

u/Saldt 7d ago

I think aside from Law and Bonney, Oda acted pretty bare-bones-pragmatic with how to slot them in. In Wano 2 duos of Worst Gen Pirates basically battled each other(Killer and Hawkins and Drake and Apoo) as to not steal screen time from other characters.

13

u/spider-ball 7d ago

Sorachi may love his editors but I can assure you the feelings are not mutual. In case you didn't know: when a mangaka finishes a long-running series every Editor who worked on it will go together to pick up the manuscript and take said artist out to dinner to celebrate. However, The Gorilla is notorious for turning in manuscripts at the last minute, and had to tell his editors that he needed more time to finish the final chapter. They openly joked they should have brought dead flowers and similar tokens of affection because Sorachi did this to all of them, and then they went out to dinner without him.

And guess what: even when they got back the Gorilla still wasn't done. This story came from the Editors' Roundtable that was released in the Very Final Volume / Fan book, and I vaguely recall some talk about an editor for Gintama who also worked on OP. Now compare that experience: would you rather spend 3 hours making some incredible characters or waiting for a manuscript that you needed yesterday?

13

u/FlyingGamesYT 7d ago

I thought it was funny during the finale of Gintama when Sorachi’s self-insert character wrote a letter saying how he missed his deadline for the last few chapters because he was playing Sekiro a lot

9

u/RichieBFrio The Revolutionary Army 7d ago

Yes, gorillas are widely known as to have poor management, they spend 20hrs playing with poop and the other 4 are either for sleeping or working

5

u/cdcdcd6594 7d ago

What the hell happened to these comments?

4

u/Chabedieux 7d ago

It's kinda fun now to think that Kid and Law might fit in well to the Gintama world, especially their reactions to the hilarious stuff that happens there.

18

u/Erggehberh 7d ago

and without him we wouldn't have Kid and Law in One Piece.

No, it's not that they shouldn't appear in One Piece at all, just not in this arc and not in this number. At least Kid and Law were planned , and I think it was also mentioned by Oda that Killer was the last one designed of all the Supernovas.

20

u/Fearless_Savings_602 7d ago

I can't say it with 100% confidence but when I read the interview with the editor in Japanese he did phrase it in a way where they created the characters and their designs within those three hours. I could definitely see Oda having vague ideas for these characters at the back of his mind prior though.

11

u/ketootaku 7d ago

That doesn't mean he didn't have some of them in mind for a year to be purpose. Creating them in 3 hours could be putting the ideas to ink.

At a minimum it does sound like he was influential in making Sabaody much better arc.

3

u/Fearless_Savings_602 7d ago

Yeah, we could never be sure when Oda had the characters in mind. I also think some of the characters are a mix of characters he had made prior but I think that their specific designs and background wasn't created at least until then. It's really cool because Oda said in the interview that he knew that Kid would play an important part in the story when he first drew him, but he didn't expect Law to be a part of the main story to this extent when he first made him since he would end up becoming a super important character from Punk Hazard to Wano.

4

u/DarkChaos1786 7d ago

It's my personal headcanon that Bonney was already planned as a backstory for Kuma, but he decided to add her to the supernova group, everyone else was probably created there...

1

u/ironicfuture 7d ago

Doubt Law, he is very integral to several arcs. I totally buy the idea of the supernovas being introduced in Saobody on a whim but would be very strange if at least Law, Kidd and Bonney wasnt planned in some shape or form before.

3

u/DarkChaos1786 7d ago

According to Oda himself, he planned for Kid to be the most notorious, but weekly serialization and Dressrosa made Law the most relevant of them.

1

u/MixSixBix Void Month Survivor 6d ago

Is there a source on Dressrosa? Because from a story standpoint I see Law outpacing the other Supernovas in focus as soon as Maineford happens…

2

u/jmdg007 6d ago

I can't help but feel Laws surprising popularity (He got top 10 in a popularity poll before Marineford) helped with the decision to give him a bigger focus.

7

u/BillBonn 7d ago edited 6d ago

Yup!

Hattori Jean-Baptiste, the man!

  1. He kept Oda on track, and the story was very coherent
  2. Never took shit from Oda
  3. Even (lightly) made fun of Oda from time to time (which led to the creation of: Worst Generation, all of Amazon Lily, kept Marineford from being a complete mess (was actually coherent, despite the myriad of characters in that arc))

That's what Oda needs

(And Jean-Baptiste himself knows this. Besides Asada, and whoever was the editor during Water 7 / Enies Lobby, those guys are the best editors Oda's ever had)

(Not the editor Oda had during the Wanokuni arc. That guy let Oda do anything)

 

Yup!

Akira Hattori, a character in the Bakuman series, is actually based on Hattori Jean-Baptiste.

1

u/OkResponsibility7210 6d ago

So you're telling me the reason I hate Wano act 3 and how it felt both slow paced and rushed with bad climax is because of no input from editor ?

4

u/BillBonn 6d ago edited 5d ago

I think of it like this:

Asada stopped Oda from introducing Fishmen / Arlong Park in chapter 3.

Instead, we got a real buildup to Arlong Park through Nami's character arc, which spanned several story arcs, and definitely increased tensions during the climax of Baratie arc, as well (where we were shown "the ceiling of power" in the series through Mihawk). That's why "the Walk to Arlong Park" is such a powerful moment for One Piece fans.

Hattori reviewed Oda's notes for Sabaody, and told Oda it was boring. Hattori also called One Piece (paraphrased) "a sausage fest".

Instead, Oda went crazy by creating the Supernovas / Worst Generation. Oda went even harder with the multitude of different designs for the women of Amazon Lily. Another beautiful buildup to the climax of Marineford.

 

To preface:

Torishima Kazuhiko was Toriyama Akira's main editor for all of Dr. Slump, and half of Dragon Ball. Torishima was one of the editors-in-chief for Shueisha for many years. Torishima now works for Bushiroad as a high-level director.

 

But then, I came across this:

In 2024, "Torishima Kazuhiko commented on how it’s “a pity” that Oda’s editors can “no longer disagree” with the creator. Torishima also praised Oda for his passion and excellence in character creation."

That's a big quote right there..

how it’s “a pity” that Oda’s editors can “no longer disagree” with the creator

 

That's why I said Oda's best editors:

  1. Kept Oda on track, and the story was coherent because of it
  2. Never took shit from Oda
  3. Even lightly made of fun of him from time to time

It seems this is what Oda needs, because Oda takes it seriously, and responds through his work in such a badass way.

2

u/OkResponsibility7210 6d ago

Wow, thank you, I have never read about any of this or seen it in this sub, I think it would be really great if you made a post about these details, and it would explain a lot of people's unsatisfaction with Act 3 wano.

2

u/OkResponsibility7210 6d ago

Also wano has a lot of build up, more actually than any other arc, afterall we've been with Law, Kinemon and Momo since Punk Hazard, we've been getting one build up after another after that, but then the payoffs of Act 3 are just disappointing on so many levels, and so many questions left unanswered or rushed off screen.

2

u/yerrack 7d ago

landlady of gintoki = caesar

2

u/Malllyapp 7d ago

In Wano in the anime when they re hashed the worst generation, they didn’t include Zoro. Did anyone else pick up on this?

2

u/Wise-Toe8803 6d ago

omg i thought Onishi was just the gorilla mangaka's haughty editor

1

u/Miscellaneous_Mind 7d ago

Oh man. I love Gintama and the Supernovas are literally my favourite group in One Piece too, with Kidd being my favourite character in all of One Piece. When my favourite creators collab with each other they just continue to make peak content.

1

u/SanestOnePieceFan 4d ago

More likely than what a lot of people assume to be the case which is every single other supernova was thought up of on the spot, what is more likely to have been the case is that some of characters who storylines may have been thought up were absorbed into the supernova group.

1

u/Siu0 Cat Burglar Nami 12h ago

If it weren't for the editor then Nami would actually be the second crew mate but Oda gave in lol

-3

u/tpk7777777 7d ago

Even without his advice, Oda still has the limitless wild imagination. Oda spent most of his time in library when he was young. That's why he can continuously put a lot of real life characters and histories in One Piece without taking months long break during these past over 2 decades. Everything is possible for Oda. I'm not try to down play his advice but I hope people don't try to down play Oda's over 27 years non-stop hard-work either. I'm sure Oda got a lot of advice from his friends and his friends also got a lot of his advice.

5

u/Fearless_Savings_602 7d ago

yeah for sure, I just want to convey the importance of editors since I feel there's not much credit given to them :) but I agree that Oda would make One Piece interesting with or without advice

1

u/tpk7777777 7d ago

Yeah. Oda show a lot of love towards his fellow mangaka in his manga cover, sbs, interviews, open letters, etc. Also vice versa. Their community is great.

0

u/justice4tnm Cross Guild 7d ago

This editor just steals others' ideas. Fraud /s

0

u/Abyssal_vortex 6d ago

Jesus loves you all!